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after Graves, who's next?

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01-25-2008, 12:21 PM
  #26
SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I dont see it that way at all. Why does it have to be so black & white? Why can't it just be a decision thats based on MANY different factors?
How does what I say not take in many different factors? I don't see what is black and white.

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01-25-2008, 12:21 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I tend to agree.

Retiring Graves' jersey sets a precedent that on-ice contribution is not enough. In fact, it might be secondary.

I guess the biggest thing is "Are you a Ranger?"
Exactly. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the Rangers family that has represented the organization better. It's a great example for future Rangers and the simple fact that the team is honoring him sends a message that you don't stop being a Ranger the second you leave the ice.

Not exactly a number but maybe they honor JD or Sam and JD for their 25 or so years in the broadcast booth? Put it right over the Booth. Seeing JD last night shows how ingrained he is with the organization even though he has moved on.

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01-25-2008, 12:32 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
We better all enjoy Graves' ceremony because there won't be another one like it for quite some time.

I loved watching Graves play, but lets face it, putting his number up in the rafters may be a bit of a stretch in the first place.
I Totally agree. If it wasn't for his personality and off ice actions, this would be a joke. Gravy is a heart and soul guy, he's awsome in that way, but as an elite player, he's not. This is obviously more about marketing then it is about anything else. Graves is the guy everyone loves, myself included, and every time we remember him we get that warm fuzzy feeling. So get that warm fuzzy feeling while looking up in the rafters because it may be all the opposite down on the ice.

Leetch and Mess are unquestionable. Richter and Graves....eh. If Montreal retired numbers so easily, there wouldn't have any left.

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01-25-2008, 12:35 PM
  #29
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^how can you give richter an eh? he's the most decorated goalie in the history of our franchise. he was a no brainer

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01-25-2008, 12:35 PM
  #30
Jaromir Jagr
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I Totally agree. If it wasn't for his personality and off ice actions, this would be a joke. Gravy is a heart and soul guy, he's awsome in that way, but as an elite player, he's not. This is obviously more about marketing then it is about anything else. Graves is the guy everyone loves, myself included, and every time we remember him we get that warm fuzzy feeling. So get that warm fuzzy feeling while looking up in the rafters because it may be all the opposite down on the ice.

Leetch and Mess are unquestionable. Richter and Graves....eh. If Montreal retired numbers so easily, there wouldn't have any left.
Exactly. Richter was a good goalie, but he was from a superstar. He stood on his head and had a career year in 94 and played absolutely wonderful in the playoffs, and help won us a cup, that's what got him in. But yeah you can't just start retiring the Graves of the world if they weren't like him off the ice. You got to put up like double the points Gravy usually put up a season to be qualified for retirement in most places (assuming your being retired for your on ice play).

Clearly, for the Rangers, it's all around as a person and not just statistics.

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01-25-2008, 12:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Cherapanov View Post
Exactly. Richter was a good goalie, but he was from a superstar. He stood on his head and had a career year in 94 and played absolutely wonderful in the playoffs, and help won us a cup, that's what got him in. But yeah you can't just start retiring the Graves of the world if they weren't like him off the ice. You got to put up like double the points Gravy usually put up a season to be qualified for retirement in most places (assuming your being retired for your on ice play).

Clearly, for the Rangers, it's all around as a person and not just statistics.
I guess leading the franchise in Wins and Games played isn't enough. Numbers better than the other goalie with his number in the rafters.

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01-25-2008, 12:44 PM
  #32
Jaromir Jagr
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
I guess leading the franchise in Wins and Games played isn't enough. Numbers better than the other goalie with his number in the rafters.
Wins have barely anything to say in terms of goaltenders stats. But Giacomin played 74 less games than Richter did for the Rangers, and had 25 less wins. So I would say that Giacomin would have beat Richter in terms of Wins had he played the same amount of games, but regardless, this is hardly a respectable stat to argue about when discussing goaltenders.

If you think this is a Richter bash, re-read, I love the guy.

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01-25-2008, 12:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
How does what I say not take in many different factors? I don't see what is black and white.
The way you phrased it makes it sound like this guy had no impact on the ice whatsoever if you think the off-ice stuff is whats getting his number retired above all else. Why can't it be EVERYTHING the man has been about as a Ranger?

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01-25-2008, 12:47 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
The way you phrased it makes it sound like this guy had no impact on the ice whatsoever if you think the off-ice stuff is whats getting his number retired above all else. Why can't it be EVERYTHING the man has been about as a Ranger?
I would think that by saying on-ice contribution is not enough would mean that everything needs to be taken into account.

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01-25-2008, 12:53 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I would think that by saying on-ice contribution is not enough would mean that everything needs to be taken into account.
But every player is different, you dont even have to consider off ice with some players, but on guys like Graves you absolutely do cause he is the bench mark in that category. How is that setting a precident in a bad way?

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01-25-2008, 12:55 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
But every player is different, you dont even have to consider off ice with some players, but on guys like Graves you absolutely do cause he is the bench mark in that category. How is that setting a precident in a bad way?
Nobody said it was a bad precedent. If anything it's good.

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01-25-2008, 01:00 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Nobody said it was a bad precedent. If anything it's good.
Sorry, i thought you were taking it as a negative. I think what confused me was the line about numbers being secondary.

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01-25-2008, 01:05 PM
  #38
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You guys do realize that we only won 1 cup in 67 years so far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So the 1994 class IS A SPECIAL period. Graves broke records as a Ranger, had 50+ goals, all-star games, TERRIFIC off the ice leadership, PLUS WINNING A CUP. You guys talk about how it only takes a cup to be lifted into the rafters. Well guess what, if we only won ONCE in 67 years, that should be a strong consideration.

I feel the people that bash Graves are the ones that are too young to remember him clearly throughout his career as a Rangers. I feel like the ones that got to appreciate him and remember are the ones that truly understand that he fits in the retired class.



Saying Jagr should be lifted because of Graves if Jagr brings a cup is ridiculous. This is only Jagr's 4th year as a Ranger while Graves has been with the team for 10 years.

It would take jagr a Cup and another 3-5 seasons to equal what Graves did for this team. Don't even mention Jagr on the same sentence with Graves at this point.

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01-25-2008, 01:09 PM
  #39
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Henrik Lundqvist, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi, Brandon Dubinsky, Alex Cherepanov

The only ones who have a remote chance. More Henrik then anyone else as we have no clue how the rest of the guys will develop and how long they will even be Rangers.

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01-25-2008, 01:09 PM
  #40
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If Emile Francis would not have flipped out and traded Jean Ratelle and Brad Park for Phil Lardass, the numbers 19 and 2 may have already been up there. Don maloney would have also had a chance, if he would not have been deemed less valuable that Carey freaking Wilson by Lardass. I don't see any more numbers going up. Staal has a chance someday, but the Rangers need to win the cup too.

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01-25-2008, 01:22 PM
  #41
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Frank Boucher
Ching Johnson
Bill Cook
Bun Cook
Harry Howell
Andy Bathgate

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01-25-2008, 01:24 PM
  #42
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how about JD

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01-25-2008, 01:29 PM
  #43
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phil lardass....i love it

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01-25-2008, 01:47 PM
  #44
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No one for a while, but like I said elsewhere I hope they do something else to honor the old guard/hof players. Haven't the Devils done something similar at the rock?

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01-25-2008, 02:59 PM
  #45
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I think Graves was a heart & soul guy for the Rangers, but before the Rangers retired Richter's, Messier's, and Leetch's numbers, here are the players I thought they should have recognized with the same tribute:

First and foremost, a banner for Lester Patrick. The man created & coached the first Rangers team in 1926, coached them to the '28 and '33 Stanley Cup championships, and as GM of the 1940 Cup-winning team...oh yeah, and came onto the ice from behind the bench and played goal for the Rangers AND WON a 1928 playoffs game. He was also the first defenseman to actually bring the puck up and out of his own zone.

Players: Bill and Bun Cook, Andy Bathgate, Frank Boucher, Vic Hadfield, Harry Howell, Ching Johnson, and Jean Ratelle.

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01-25-2008, 03:02 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerjoe View Post
I think Graves was a heart & soul guy for the Rangers, but before the Rangers retired Richter's, Messier's, and Leetch's numbers, here are the players I thought they should have recognized with the same tribute:

First and foremost, a banner for Lester Patrick. The man created & coached the first Rangers team in 1926, coached them to the '28 and '33 Stanley Cup championships, and as GM of the 1940 Cup-winning team...oh yeah, and came onto the ice from behind the bench and played goal for the Rangers AND WON a 1928 playoffs game. He was also the first defenseman to actually bring the puck up and out of his own zone.

Players: Bill and Bun Cook, Andy Bathgate, Frank Boucher, Vic Hadfield, Harry Howell, Ching Johnson, and Jean Ratelle.
All great men in Ranger history, no doubt.

Now, how do you honor them properly?

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01-25-2008, 03:05 PM
  #47
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I can't think of anyone else from 1994.
For the current/guys since, you have HOFers in Jagr and Shanahan, but they made their make elsewhere. I think anybody else will have to bring home a Cup or two (or be that good individually) to even be remotely considered. It's way too early to tell with anyone on the team right now. If they do win, who knows? Henrik? Gomer? Drury? All depends on doing extremely well for at least a few more years on Broadway.

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01-25-2008, 03:14 PM
  #48
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Kovalev is the only other player who had as big of a part in that 94 team as those guys did. I personally think he had a bigger impact in the playoffs than Graves did. He had 4 points in Game 6 against the Devils in itself and finished with 21 points in that year's playoffs. However, the rest of his Rangers career wasn't all that good therefore he obviously doesn't deserve the honor.

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01-25-2008, 03:16 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oteixeira View Post
Got to be Ratelle, if not for his broken foot, we would have won the cup in 71-72. He was the best player on that team, and is already in the Hall of Fame, I mean, it's not a stretch here...

Orlando
You can't put in Ratelle if you didn't put in Park. Then again, if we're lowering the bar for Graves it's open season on retiring numbers.

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01-25-2008, 03:18 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
All great men in Ranger history, no doubt.

Now, how do you honor them properly?
I think Zipay or Dubi @ BSB said there's a Ranger HOF in the arena. They should open that to the public with really great interactive exhibits of the history of the team and Ranger greats. Plaques, busts, they whole shebang, memorabilia, etc.

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