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Old
01-27-2008, 09:05 PM
  #101
DJAnimosity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesen16 View Post
even if that were true, you arent looking into the future. if Nash, Z, and Pascal all continue to play the way they are, you have to add quite a bit to that cap.
I already did add to the budget - I gave Leclaire his raise, Zherdev his raise, and Nash his raise. This will hold us for at least 2 years, and we'll have other guys coming off the books, other propsects making the team for cheap - it all shifts around and you find a way.

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01-27-2008, 09:07 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by QTMcWhiskers View Post
Where have I heard this before?



Crap.
i probably should stay out of this since i never wanted Brule and thought we were very stupid to pick him, but....

they are 2 dif situations. 2 dif players, 2 dif types of players, etc. not saying i would play him in the nhl next year. if you know me you know im one who likes keeping guys away from the nhl as long as possible. just saying you cant use one example and paint everyone else into that corner. you could say, Nash did it, so everyone else can. or Brule didnt do it, so no one else can.

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01-27-2008, 09:07 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
I already did add to the budget - I gave Leclaire his raise, Zherdev his raise, and Nash his raise. This will hold us for at least 2 years, and we'll have other guys coming off the books, other propsects making the team for cheap - it all shifts around and you find a way.
if you think that, i am DANG glad you arent running the Jackets.

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Old
01-27-2008, 09:27 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by RDriesen16 View Post
if you think that, i am DANG glad you arent running the Jackets.
Explain why? It's the way most franchises are run.

You pay your RFAs when they deserve a raise, let UFAs go when they get too old, and insert prospects when they're ready. How is this bad again?

I think you just want to show up and do your quarterly debate with me. Should have gotten to me earlier, I'm going to bed soon.

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01-27-2008, 09:41 PM
  #105
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I know we are just throwing dollars around and speculating but no way Foote signs for 2.5 mil. This will be his last chance at a decent contract and he'll go to the highest bidder. He'll get 4mil+.

I also forsee a pretty lengthy contract negotiation with Leclaire....and with the way offer sheets were flung around last year who knows what may happen with him. I'm just glad we have a lot of dough available.

Can't screw around to much with the goaltending position though...most important position on the ice. If we have to overpay a bit for Leclaire then so be it....its a risk based off one great year but there is risk in any one you sign I guess.

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01-27-2008, 09:45 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Me thinks your raise for Leclaire is quite a bit on the low side for all the same reasons we were all upset he wasn't in the ASG. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing your number happen.
All the more reason for GMSH to sign him to a contract extension NOW.

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Old
01-27-2008, 09:49 PM
  #107
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Is Foot any better than Chelios was the last few years for Detroit? I'd say no, and Chelios has been playing for about a million, right?

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Old
01-27-2008, 09:57 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by RDriesen16 View Post
Personally, I find people who post in a thread just to say they dont like a thread to be rather....well i better not go there. if you dont like it, dont read it, and better yet, dont post in it. the thread title tells you exactly what it is. not like you were tricked into reading it.
You post a topic, and the topic itself is fair game. S'why they call it a forum.

I also don't trust the salary number discussions -not as long as we're obviously way under the cap. Why? Because we really don't know what our budget is next year, who will stay and who will go. We all thought we had a bigger budget last year, then we hear from Howson/Priest that we didn't. Then we hear that McConnell never gave Maclean a budget. So how does one respond to DJ's budget list post (for example) where he assumes that $43 mil is "do-able" ?? I too used to think such was "do-able" but based on what we've seen and heard so far, I'd be surprised if Howson asks the old man for $40 mil, let alone $43. And he's got some guys to re-sign who are going to be costly (Leclaire)

It's crazy to try and project next year. This franchise is at a HUGE watershed right now. I'm not even sure we can predict the roster for MARCH let alone next October. I suspect Howson is in the same quandry. Right now...what happens on the ice will dictate the moves.

Portzline recently published an article in the Dispatch outlining the possible SCENARIOS for player acquisition at the deadline and over the summer which Howson could pursue. He also included some of the same speculation in his article for THN this past week. So IF one assumes that Portzline is well connected, and then you read that even HE can't figure out WHICH of the 5 or 6 possible directions Howson will go, ...how can any of us know enough to start rolling lines and totaling salaries?

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Old
01-27-2008, 10:15 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Explain why? It's the way most franchises are run.

You pay your RFAs when they deserve a raise, let UFAs go when they get too old, and insert prospects when they're ready. How is this bad again?

I think you just want to show up and do your quarterly debate with me. Should have gotten to me earlier, I'm going to bed soon.
cause in 3 years, we will have a ton of guys making a ton of money and no prospects.

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01-27-2008, 10:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
You post a topic, and the topic itself is fair game. S'why they call it a forum.

I also don't trust the salary number discussions -not as long as we're obviously way under the cap. Why? Because we really don't know what our budget is next year, who will stay and who will go. We all thought we had a bigger budget last year, then we hear from Howson/Priest that we didn't. Then we hear that McConnell never gave Maclean a budget. So how does one respond to DJ's budget list post (for example) where he assumes that $43 mil is "do-able" ?? I too used to think such was "do-able" but based on what we've seen and heard so far, I'd be surprised if Howson asks the old man for $40 mil, let alone $43. And he's got some guys to re-sign who are going to be costly (Leclaire)

It's crazy to try and project next year. This franchise is at a HUGE watershed right now. I'm not even sure we can predict the roster for MARCH let alone next October. I suspect Howson is in the same quandry. Right now...what happens on the ice will dictate the moves.

Portzline recently published an article in the Dispatch outlining the possible SCENARIOS for player acquisition at the deadline and over the summer which Howson could pursue. He also included some of the same speculation in his article for THN this past week. So IF one assumes that Portzline is well connected, and then you read that even HE can't figure out WHICH of the 5 or 6 possible directions Howson will go, ...how can any of us know enough to start rolling lines and totaling salaries?
if its crazy, then WHAY ARE YOU ON HERE TALKING ABOUT IT. you keep saying how this topic is dumb and stupid yet you keep posting about it. if its so dumb, dont talk about it.

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01-27-2008, 10:19 PM
  #111
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can someone direct me to the link that had all the contract numbers for all nhl teams (mostly want the Jackets one, but want to see some other teams). i used to know it but dont remember it. thanks.

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Old
01-27-2008, 10:42 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Let's say we got our boys in Campbell and Jokinen, what would the salary structure look like next year? My guess:

Nash ($6.5 mill) - Jokinen ($5.25 mill) - Zherdev ($3.25 mill)
Modin ($3.5 mill) - Brassard ($850,000) - Voracek ($875,000)
Free Agent/Brule ($1 mill approx.) - Peca ($2 mill approx.) - Fritsche ($1 mill approx.)
Malhotra ($1.5 mill) - Novotny ($800,000) - Boll ($570,000)

Wild cards:
Lindstrom, Glencross, Brule - RFAs or trade bait

Foote ($2.5 mill approx.) - Hejda ($2 mill approx.)
Klesla ($1.65 mill) - Campbell ($5.5 mill)
Russell ($575,000) - Methot ($500,000 approx.)

Wild card:
Tollefsen ($750,000)

Leclaire ($3 mill approx.)
Norrena ($900,000)

all numbers from: http://www.nhlscap.com/salarynumbers/columbus.htm


THis lineup comes out to $43,275,000, not including OKT's $750K, or any of the forward wild cards. Seems doable, no? And this includes raises for Leclaire, Hejda, Nash, and Zherdev, a d-man free agent signing, and a #1 center signing.
Not bad, DJ. We don't lose games because we give up too many goals. We lose the games we lose because we don't score enough goals.

Unless corporate sponsorships pick up, which I don't see in this economy, getting to $43m might be difficult unless we have second-round playoff money under our belt from this year.

That means we can have Olli or Campbell - and keep our existing stars - but not both. If it were me, I'd pick Olli, but if Hitch's past history is any indication, he'd probably pick Campbell.

If someone else is willing to offer Foote $4 million a year, then so long Adam. He's not worth that much. If he would sign for $2.5, I'd gladly keep him. EDIT: Regarding Feds, we have enough younger and cheaper players that can be 3rd line center, so Feds would be out (even at a discount) unless he played defense.

Leclaire, however, is worth $4 million. I don't see us signing him for $3 million.

Good call dropping Chimera, Shelley, and Vyborny. I'm on the fence about Hainsey - he's a project Hitch seems to be making progress with.

Lastly, don't forget we have Andrew Murray, who I like more than Lindstrom on the big club.

Bottom line, I see the CBJ as being in the same place Tampa was when they got hot and had Dino Ciccarelli lead them to their first-ever playoff berth. I think it was 1996-1997. And their lineup was no more talented than ours, maybe less so.


Last edited by leesmith: 01-27-2008 at 11:01 PM.
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Old
01-27-2008, 10:52 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
Is Foot any better than Chelios was the last few years for Detroit? I'd say no, and Chelios has been playing for about a million, right?
I know you really not trying to compare Foote's situation with the over-the-topic home town discount that Detroit got with Chelios? Chelios wanted to keep the team together, kudos to him. I'm sure the player's union wasn't thrilled.

If someone wants to pay 4 million + for Foote, they can have him.

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Old
01-27-2008, 11:03 PM
  #114
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I'm just trying to find a comparable situation. Foote at $4 million + is horribly overpriced. We're not getting that kind of production from him now.

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01-27-2008, 11:06 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
You post a topic, and the topic itself is fair game. S'why they call it a forum.

I also don't trust the salary number discussions -not as long as we're obviously way under the cap. Why? Because we really don't know what our budget is next year, who will stay and who will go. We all thought we had a bigger budget last year, then we hear from Howson/Priest that we didn't.
Sorry, Jacketfan, but do you ever post the facts the want that they happened?

Please show me one link that Howson or Priest has ever said what our budget is. You don't know what it is, you never have, and you likely never will. For all you know, we are 5 million under what the internal budget is. You have just assumed that because we didn't spend it, the money wasn't there.

Secondly, I don't know one person that thought we were going to have much of an increased budget, if any. Well, ok, it sounds like you did... So you would make one.

You talk about not wanting to speculate in this thread, but all you do is speculate with no facts.

This is actually a good discussion where people are thinking to the future about our budget sitation, and what the issues are with signing large contracts and retaining your RFA's. Doesn't matter if the numbers people are throwing around are right, it's forward thinking....


Last edited by blahblah: 01-27-2008 at 11:12 PM.
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Old
01-27-2008, 11:07 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by RDriesen16 View Post
if its crazy, then WHAY ARE YOU ON HERE TALKING ABOUT IT. you keep saying how this topic is dumb and stupid yet you keep posting about it. if its so dumb, dont talk about it.
Didn't say dumb, didn't say stupid.
Though I will come close: it's ridiculous to believe that you can seriously project an Oct 08 roster and budget at this point in this season. It's not even on topic.

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01-27-2008, 11:24 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Didn't say dumb, didn't say stupid.
Though I will come close: it's ridiculous to believe that you can seriously project an Oct 08 roster and budget at this point in this season. It's not even on topic.
The thing is JF, before you can make any trades to better the team for a playoff run this month, one HAS to think about Oct 08 - and for that matter - Oct 09. This is a fun topic (for us fans), not a serious one.

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01-27-2008, 11:25 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Didn't say dumb, didn't say stupid.
Though I will come close: it's ridiculous to believe that you can seriously project an Oct 08 roster and budget at this point in this season. It's not even on topic.
Really, because the hypotheticals presented here are close to the reality you have been begging for.

If you're gonna beg for these types of moves, why don't you bother to look at what the financial landscape would be after you get done?

Or do you just perfer to yell and scream when ownership doesn't do what you want?

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01-27-2008, 11:30 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Sorry, Jacketfan, but do you ever post the facts the want that they happened?

Please show me one link that Howson or Priest has ever said what our budget is. You don't know what it is, you never have, and you likely never will. For all you know, we are 5 million under what the internal budget is. You have just assumed that because we didn't spend it, the money wasn't there.

Secondly, I don't know one person that thought we were going to have much of an increased budget, if any.

You talk about not wanting to speculate in this thread, but all you do is speculate with no facts.
Trying to take a realistic approach here.
I used to play with little green army men on a blanket with my brother. We spent hours arguing over who was better: bazooka man, or guy with the hand grenade.
No doubt you'd say "bazooka man" if I said "guy with the hand grenade." Right?

Of course I can't produce facts on the budget because they are rarely if ever published by teams due to privacy and competitive business considerations. What we DO know is based on quotes scattered over the months and years, reports in the Dispatch, inferences, and the occasional inside detail from somebody.

So what DO we know?
1. Budgets are proprietary info. If they ever quote a number, don't believe it.
2. Priest gave Howson a budget (reported)
3. McConnell never gave Maclean a budget (a quote from Mr Mac)
4. The budget is a "range" and can be inferred by how much they spent this year, and last on salaries.
5. We can total this year's salaries and determine approximately how much we "could" spend, but that doesn't tell us what they WILL spend. Last couple of years have driven that hope out of me.

Howson has a really hard job because this team is on the cusp, -between it's first playoff birth ever, and the need to dump 1/3 to 1/2 the roster. I'll bet he doesn't sleep well at night.

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01-27-2008, 11:34 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Really, because the hypotheticals presented here are close to the reality you have been begging for.

If you're gonna beg for these types of moves, why don't you bother to look at what the financial landscape would be after you get done?

Or do you just perfer to yell and scream when ownership doesn't do what you want?
I prefer to poke them with a sharp stick.
Unlike some, I think we're one impact player away from having a pretty damn good roster. I've consistently said that, as have you if I recall. We don't need to roll the budget powerpoint for that. It's pocket change for McConnel and Wolfe, won't even put them near the cap. I'm not naive enough to assume the roster will stay the same, but I'm also not naive enough to assume to know the mind of Howson and his scouts. I could roll out 20 guys and go "fanboy" about them, but I'd rather not. I trust Hitch and Howson to pick the right guys.


Last edited by JACKETfan: 01-27-2008 at 11:40 PM.
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Old
01-28-2008, 04:50 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Unlike some, I think we're one impact player away from having a pretty damn good roster. I've consistently said that, as have you if I recall. We don't need to roll the budget powerpoint for that. It's pocket change for McConnel and Wolfe, won't even put them near the cap. I'm not naive enough to assume the roster will stay the same, but I'm also not naive enough to assume to know the mind of Howson and his scouts. I could roll out 20 guys and go "fanboy" about them, but I'd rather not. I trust Hitch and Howson to pick the right guys.
I fully agree with this.

However, I also find this kind of speculation fun to read and will continue to do so. Nothing else to do during the All-Star Break.

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01-28-2008, 06:12 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
I know we are just throwing dollars around and speculating but no way Foote signs for 2.5 mil. This will be his last chance at a decent contract and he'll go to the highest bidder. He'll get 4mil+.
No way Foote gets $4 mill+. He was overpaid 3 years ago at $4 mill+, and you think his market value has stayed the same?!?

$2.5 mill seems actually high to me for a past-his-prime 36 year old d-man.

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01-28-2008, 07:05 AM
  #123
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Go back to watching OSU then. In pro sports, players get paid, like it or not. Brady Quinn got paid 6 Million dollars this past season to look pretty standing on the sidelines.

Jackets fans pissed and moaned about Nash's contract, now we all realize what a steal it is.
Jackets fans pissed and moaned about Zherdev's contract, now we all realize what a steal it is.
Hell Jackets fans even pissed and moaned about Modin's contract, when players with half the stats signed contracts for twice as much (he'll show us it was a steal next season)

Foote will get 4+, from us, or somebody else. Hell Mathieu Schneider is 38 and got 5.625 from Anaheim.

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01-28-2008, 08:06 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I prefer to poke them with a sharp stick.
Unlike some, I think we're one impact player away from having a pretty damn good roster. I've consistently said that, as have you if I recall.
We are not one player away, which you know, and we have a large UFA and RFA list. It's not simplistic and it's good discussion.

I'm just going to assume your just trying to stir-the-pot here.

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01-28-2008, 08:13 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
2. Priest gave Howson a budget (reported)
Here you go...

Priest gave Howson a budget. It's been reported....

Of course there is a budget, everyone has one (or at least should). As you pointed out, you have no idea what the player salary budget was. So back to my point, you were speculating. We're speculating now.

No difference, other then some people are putting thought into the roster for next year and beyond.

Have a nice day.

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