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Current Problem with NYR = Avery

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Old
01-30-2008, 01:42 PM
  #26
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by iluvmarberrys View Post
This entire thread is such a joke. Avery, Gomez, Lundqvist, and the 3rd Line are the only people that you CAN NOT BLAME for the problems. Anybody else can be.


The coaching staff and GM clearly need to shake things up soon.

Each player needs to put in at least half of of the emotion and effort that Avery AND DUBINSKY put into every shift.
you can certainly blame Lundy for his horrendous play in december/Jan. it looks like he is starting to get back into form but still doesn't come up w/ the big save when you need it lately.

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01-30-2008, 01:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
you can certainly blame Lundy for his horrendous play in december/Jan. it looks like he is starting to get back into form but still doesn't come up w/ the big save when you need it lately.
0:6
1:11
2:13
3:10

6 games Henrik had to make 0 goals scored by the offense stand up.
11 games Henrik had to make 1 goal by the offense stand up.
13 games Henrik had to make 2 goals by the offense stand up.
10 games Henrik had to make 3 goals by the offense stand up.

IE, in 17 of our 52 games, Henrik needed to give up zero goals to get 1 or 2 points. in 13, 1 goal, and in 10 2 goals.

40 games, or 77% of our games played thus far Henrik was required to have a weighted (not counting OT/ and Shootouts) GAA of 0.825 in order for our team to win, or stay even on the shutouts.


Put the blame where it belongs, on the forwards.

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01-30-2008, 01:49 PM
  #28
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I would say the problem with the team... is the team. I believe that starts with Tom Renney. i don't know how much crap I am going to get from Ranger fans but man, everytime I check on the Alaskans, I read how he changed a line and it seems that there is no real chemistry on this squad or he hasn't kept people together long enough to find it. Avery, the problem... not even close, shoot... send him to the Hawks, we will gladly take him. But it starts with coaching and maybe your GM needs to look there and realize he MIGHT have made a mistake in giving Renney so much power.

I am expecting a certain amount of hate replies

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01-30-2008, 01:52 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by kilo41ak View Post
I would say the problem with the team... is the team. I believe that starts with Tom Renney. i don't know how much crap I am going to get from Ranger fans but man, everytime I check on the Alaskans, I read how he changed a line and it seems that there is no real chemistry on this squad or he hasn't kept people together long enough to find it. Avery, the problem... not even close, shoot... send him to the Hawks, we will gladly take him. But it starts with coaching and maybe your GM needs to look there and realize he MIGHT have made a mistake in giving Renney so much power.

I am expecting a certain amount of hate replies
80% of this board hates renney, and im right there with him. your response is concise and accurate.

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01-30-2008, 01:55 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
0:6
1:11
2:13
3:10

6 games Henrik had to make 0 goals scored by the offense stand up.
11 games Henrik had to make 1 goal by the offense stand up.
13 games Henrik had to make 2 goals by the offense stand up.
10 games Henrik had to make 3 goals by the offense stand up.

IE, in 17 of our 52 games, Henrik needed to give up zero goals to get 1 or 2 points. in 13, 1 goal, and in 10 2 goals.

40 games, or 77% of our games played thus far Henrik was required to have a weighted (not counting OT/ and Shootouts) GAA of 0.825 in order for our team to win, or stay even on the shutouts.


Put the blame where it belongs, on the forwards.
yeah but for a bout a month he had a save percentage of less than .900. That's not good either. I am not absolving the offense b/c they are a problem. But our goaltending hasn't been steady since November. He lets in alot of easy goals lately which deflates the team. Again the offense is a huge problem, but our defense and goaltending shouldn't be absolved. Honestly there are only three players I would absolve. Staal, Dubi, Gomez. That's it.

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01-30-2008, 02:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by kilo41ak View Post
I would say the problem with the team... is the team. I believe that starts with Tom Renney.
What about Teflon Glen? The man who put it all together.

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Originally Posted by kilo41ak View Post
... not even close, shoot... send him to the Hawks,
For Byfuglien?

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Old
01-30-2008, 02:02 PM
  #32
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The problem is the whole damn team.

Enough said.

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Old
01-30-2008, 02:02 PM
  #33
Inferno
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
yeah but for a bout a month he had a save percentage of less than .900. That's not good either. I am not absolving the offense b/c they are a problem. But our goaltending hasn't been steady since November. He lets in alot of easy goals lately which deflates the team. Again the offense is a huge problem, but our defense and goaltending shouldn't be absolved. Honestly there are only three players I would absolve. Staal, Dubi, Gomez. That's it.
if our offense could have scored any goals at all when the season started, we would have started off at like 12-2-1 or something absurd like that, based on the goaltending henrik was giving us.

this wouldnt even be an issue now if we could score some damn goals.

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01-30-2008, 02:03 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Like i said in the GDT, if this team averages 3.33 or even 2.83 goals per game instead of 2.33 (worst in the NHL) almost all of these panic threads and individual player blaming would be out the door.

Putting the puck in the net is the problem for the Rangers. Thats the #1 issue. If theres was one thing that would change the fortunes of this team it would be that. Not coaching, defense, goaltending, road play etc...

Its scoring (the PP). Everything else would be an afterthought, a tweak here a tweak there.

When you have a team that has two 600 goal scorers and a lineup that consists of:

Jagr
Gomez
Drury
Shanahan
Prucha
Straka

All whom have had 30 goals seasons - (that would amount to 180 goals instead of 113 which that group is on pace for now)

And almost 25% of those goals are scored by the defense, there's a huge problem. When a team gets a lead, and then loses it and can't come back from a one or two goal deficit that puts an awful amount of pressure on the rest of the team areas. Weve seen it all year.

93 goals by forwards this year in 52 games. Thats 1.79 goals a game for the offense.

Thats with 253 Powerplay opportunities which is 2nd in the NHL.

Thats an average of close to 5 PP per game - FIVE.

Its not Avery, or the defense or Hank or any player in particular.

THEY JUST CAN'T SCORE.
This man speaks the truth. Coaching does have the ability to affect a team's offensive output depending on the discipline they're taught to play with (ie, defensively or offensively etc)

But when you have the guys we have, we shouldn't have this low of an output. Scoring goals wins games. I've played in net for many years, and on some pretty bad teams. When you have it in the back of your head that if you give up one goal or heaven forbid 2 that you've sealed your team's fate - it can affect your play immensely if this is something that happens EVERY GAME.

To the OP, Avery is not the problem. Infact I actually like him on the first line, giving them a bit more grit. Avery's forechecking is unquestionable and several occasions his forechecking deep within the offensive zone led to the puck on Jagr's stick.

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01-30-2008, 02:07 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Like i said in the GDT, if this team averages 3.33 or even 2.83 goals per game instead of 2.33 (worst in the NHL) almost all of these panic threads and individual player blaming would be out the door.

Putting the puck in the net is the problem for the Rangers. Thats the #1 issue. If theres was one thing that would change the fortunes of this team it would be that. Not coaching, defense, goaltending, road play etc...

Its scoring (the PP). Everything else would be an afterthought, a tweak here a tweak there.

When you have a team that has two 600 goal scorers and a lineup that consists of:

Jagr
Gomez
Drury
Shanahan
Prucha
Straka

All whom have had 30 goals seasons - (that would amount to 180 goals instead of 113 which that group is on pace for now)

And almost 25% of those goals are scored by the defense, there's a huge problem. When a team gets a lead, and then loses it and can't come back from a one or two goal deficit that puts an awful amount of pressure on the rest of the team areas. Weve seen it all year.

93 goals by forwards this year in 52 games. Thats 1.79 goals a game for the offense.

Thats with 253 Powerplay opportunities which is 2nd in the NHL.

Thats an average of close to 5 PP per game - FIVE.

Its not Avery, or the defense or Hank or any player in particular.

THEY JUST CAN'T SCORE.
yep, excellent post. i said it on my site as well. also, if the team scored 3 goals, no more, no less, in every game, AND lost every single game that went to overtime, theyd be 28-12-12, with a record tied with Ottawa for best in the East...actually theyd be even better than ottawa because i believe weve lost to them twice without them scoring more than 1 or 2 goals.

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01-30-2008, 02:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
What about Teflon Glen? The man who put it all together.
"teflon Glen" I think is doing a fine job.... he got the guys... Renney needs to make it work. And he has given Renney anything he wanted to make it work and Renney is just blowing it. This team was supposed to be the first place team before the season started... I was just as happy as any of you for that... but you guys are pulling a "ol' Blackhawk move" except you have the players to do it and actually make the playoffs. It seems to me that you have a whole groups of guys just skating around and not playing hockey. There is NO team and like that guy a couple posts before me... enough said, but I included it falls on renney's shoulders and he should be fired if they want to make the playoffs.

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For Byfuglien?
How about no.... I will give you Eager and a Team Jacket

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Old
01-30-2008, 02:18 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by OleOleOleOleBureBure View Post
Believe it or not, and as much as i love this guy I blame him for the current skid. he has been playing like he did against Buffalo last year in the playoffs after being so dominating with the Trashers. He is just out there. He is not doing what he does best. When was the last time he really pissed of an opposing team??? Putting him on the first line is a mistake. He needs to be on the 2nd line and do what he does best, which is piss off the other guys. Unless he starts doing that, our emotional level will never be elevated to where it needs to be. the one single asset he brought last year to our team was emotion and he must do whatever it takes to do it again this year.

Most probably he is still hurt but he is not worth that much as AVery the non agitator, sorry.

the other problem we have is our defense but that is another discussion. Our D group just does not cut it, sorry.
absolutely!!! The Ranger's problem is definately not a lack of offensive, an inexperienced defense, or lack of good leadership. Yep the problem is undoubtably lies on the shoulders of one player whos played hurt for most of the season.

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01-30-2008, 02:18 PM
  #38
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All of our supposed offensive firepower resides in elderly legs, way past their prime. If we are counting on Shanahan to be our primary goalscorer, how is that Renney's fault?

Who do you think should be scoring much more than they are? Realistically?

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01-30-2008, 02:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
yep, excellent post. i said it on my site as well. also, if the team scored 3 goals, no more, no less, in every game, AND lost every single game that went to overtime, theyd be 28-12-12, with a record tied with Ottawa for best in the East...actually theyd be even better than ottawa because i believe weve lost to them twice without them scoring more than 1 or 2 goals.
Not only that Inferno (and i read your site today, and i agree as usual) but have you seen the shots for and against stats?

I posted this on 1/10:

______________________________________________
• The Rangers are 4th in the NHL in shots per game. Above them are OTT and DET, two powerhouses.
• The Rangers are 3rd in the NHL in shots against per game. Above them are DET and SJ - one very good team and one powerhouse.

Now, when outshooting opponents in a game the Rangers are 25th in the NHL. DET and OTT are 2nd and 4th in that category respectively.

Also, when outshot by opponents in a game the Rangers are 3rd in the NHL. SJ is 6th and OTT is 1st.

Interesting to pick this apart, it bascially says that when the Rangers are outshot they win more then when they outshoot their opponent which is one of the most unnatural stats i've ever seen.

Why? Because they are the New York Rangers, thats why
______________________________________________

This is why its really on the (offensive) players shoulders, because they get the shots, they just don't get to the rebounds and convert the chances. They dont get dirty, they dont set up well on the PP and they dont crash the net AT ALL. IM sure half of the quality scoring chances the Rangers have had this year dont even fall into the SOG category because they were shot WIDE.

Fletch - Thats why i dont blame Renney (fully) for the lack of offense, though i do blame him for lack of motivation, inability to adapt and personnel decisions.

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01-30-2008, 02:56 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Not only that Inferno (and i read your site today, and i agree as usual) but have you seen the shots for and against stats?

I posted this on 1/10:

______________________________________________
The Rangers are 4th in the NHL in shots per game. Above them are OTT and DET, two powerhouses.
The Rangers are 3rd in the NHL in shots against per game. Above them are DET and SJ - one very good team and one powerhouse.

Now, when outshooting opponents in a game the Rangers are 25th in the NHL. DET and OTT are 2nd and 4th in that category respectively.

Also, when outshot by opponents in a game the Rangers are 3rd in the NHL. SJ is 6th and OTT is 1st.

Interesting to pick this apart, it bascially says that when the Rangers are outshot they win more then when they outshoot their opponent which is one of the most unnatural stats i've ever seen.

Why? Because they are the New York Rangers, thats why
______________________________________________

This is why its really on the (offensive) players shoulders, because they get the shots, they just don't get to the rebounds and convert the chances. They dont get dirty, they dont set up well on the PP and they dont crash the net AT ALL. IM sure half of the quality scoring chances the Rangers have had this year dont even fall into the SOG category because they were shot WIDE.

Fletch - Thats why i dont blame Renney (fully) for the lack of offense, though i do blame him for lack of motivation, inability to adapt and personnel decisions.
excellent post, and a heart breaking stat.

lets face it, most NHL goalies are going to stop your first shot in a set play, its getting to those rebounds, and getting them home that sets apart most teams. look at the first period against the thrashers in the first of the back to back series. rangers got everything to the net, and attacked it like a freaking shark to blood. since then, i havent seen that again. and if memory serves me right, we scored 2 or 3 goals in that period.


*sigh* this team just sickens me at times, because its not a lack of skill, its a lack of executing a game plan every single person with half a brain knows works.


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Old
01-30-2008, 03:07 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
The Rangers are 4th in the NHL in shots per game. Above them are OTT and DET, two powerhouses.

The Rangers are 3rd in the NHL in shots against per game. Above them are DET and SJ - one very good team and one powerhouse.

Now, when outshooting opponents in a game the Rangers are 25th in the NHL. DET and OTT are 2nd and 4th in that category respectively.

Also, when outshot by opponents in a game the Rangers are 3rd in the NHL. SJ is 6th and OTT is 1st.

Interesting to pick this apart, it bascially says that when the Rangers are outshot they win more then when they outshoot their opponent which is one of the most unnatural stats i've ever seen.

Why? Because they are the New York Rangers, thats why
Why? because when you are losing more often then you are winning you are going to shoot more to score, you are going to be more aggressive, the leading team will be less aggressive. Especially the Rangers.

Teams still play defensive systems. When a team is leading by a goal and especially 2 or more they will sit back more and allow rushes come and a quick shot. They will just try to play defense and protect against rebounds. They are less likely to attack and try to score more. So that will end up w/ less shots for them and more shots for the opposing team in this case the Rangers. Teams really do this against the Rangers to perfection b/c we take a TON of bad angle shots.

That is why we have more shots on goal than most teams. We are losing most of the time and are forced to just fire away. To try to create any type of scoring chance/ rebound opportunity. to bad there is never anybody waiting at the doorstep.

I would rely on these stats as much as +/- stats. There is more to the eye than just a #.

Also this is why Ottawa and Detroit are so good. Watch them. They never stop skating, they never sit back in defensive postures. They are always attacking. We go up by a goal and stop trying half the time and go into defensive postures. It's a shame b/c our defense isn't that good, and our goalie isn't playing up to par the last 2 months.

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01-30-2008, 03:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
For those saying that Avery should not be playing on the first line, who do you expect to replace him (please dont say Petr Prucha, as he runs the risk of actually getting decapitated going against an opposing teams top pairing every night). Renney has tried virtually everyone else, and I actually think the Avery-Gomez-Jagr line has played fairly well.
straka

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01-30-2008, 06:02 PM
  #43
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inferno...

Lundqvist has given up 3 or more goals in 6 of the last 10 games - not good at all.

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01-30-2008, 06:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
All of our supposed offensive firepower resides in elderly legs, way past their prime. If we are counting on Shanahan to be our primary goalscorer, how is that Renney's fault?

Who do you think should be scoring much more than they are? Realistically?
Well I don't know who you count on for that... but I do know that Sather has put a whole lotta trust in Renney and if Shanny was the answer from Renney that he was the primary goal scorer then he was wrong... way wrong. You have Prucha who was a 30 goal scorer 2 years ago... what happened? Dawes can put it away, where is he and why is he jumping from the N to the A and back? I think the coaching staff is to blame and Sather needs to make a choice on his own and not consult Renney (if he has, but it seems that way) and find someone for you guys NOW.

The odd part is that the B-Hawks are on the other end of the spectrum and are expecting the young guns not in thier prime to carry them and it aint working out. The primes have quit and we are slumping... I hope Dale pulls magic out his arse.

it sucks for both my teams right now...

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01-30-2008, 09:17 PM
  #45
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i love how every day, someone else comes here and is like

" HEY GUYS I KNOW WHATS WORNG WITH TEH rANGERs, ITS TOTALLY STEVE VALIQUETTE I MEAn LOOK HE coNTRIBUTES NOThing AND HE GEts PAyED WAY Too MCUH I SAY TRADE Him IMMEDIATELY FOR ALEX OVEChKIN DO You GUYS LIKE MY PROPPOSAL??????"

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01-30-2008, 09:31 PM
  #46
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Avery is not the problem, it's that bum we picked up from Buffalo!

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01-30-2008, 09:44 PM
  #47
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Avery is not the problem, it's that bum we picked up from Buffalo!
Drury Hater , leave Dru alone why dont you look at the kids its not always the vets

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01-30-2008, 09:46 PM
  #48
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Drury Hater , leave Dru alone why dont you look at the kids its not always the vets
Bcause it's not the kids who are taking up 7 mil in cap space. The kids also are learning and IMO still playing better and more effective. Drury needs to go away.

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01-30-2008, 09:49 PM
  #49
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Bcause it's not the kids who are taking up 7 mil in cap space. The kids also are learning and IMO still playing better and more effective. Drury needs to go away.
5 more years with Drury, better get used to him.

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01-30-2008, 09:52 PM
  #50
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5 more years with Drury, better get used to him.
Why does he have a NTC?

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