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Another night off for Danny

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Old
02-04-2008, 05:51 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by theshotmaker View Post
Great post. He couldn't take Buffalo to the next level and I doubt he will be able to do it here. When you pay what we did for him, I expect a little more than a soft, one way, one dimensional player who can't take a team to the next level. Primeau took this team to a level it hadn't been to in years because he was the polar opposite of Danielle, a two way, unselfish, player who stepped up in the post season and didn't become softer like Dannie.

But that is what you are missing. It is not solely his responsibility to take us to the next level. He is not the captain here as he was in Buffalo--we have plenty of leaders, scorers and tough guys on our roster, winning or losing will not fall on the shoulders of one or two players as it did with last year's Sabres.

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02-04-2008, 06:52 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by joethunder View Post
WHAT? Lidstrom, Nieds, Nieuwendyk, Sakic, Leetch, Mario....dude....dumb thing to say.
When did any of these guys continually bail on the puck like they were heading for a line change at the beginning of their shifts? These guys may have never been bonecrushers, but there is no similarity to them and Briere's game. None. Talk about a moronic thing to say.

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Originally Posted by flyersfan97 View Post
I had to giggle that you and I said about the same thing at the same time. I thought Neids first, but decided to go with Gretzky instead. If he had just reversed his statement and said somthing like, "..tough gritty players are necessary to win a Cup" I would have agreed 100%. I still say we have yet to see all that Danny has to offer--who knows, maybe he's saving it all for the playoffs.
And that's really the issue isn't it? Where's the finesse? Where's the creativity? All there is is fear and giving up, mixed in with some getting credit for the other players work. Nobody "fits" with him. Even his personal savior hasn't upped his game. He's not playing against the top checking line and has leeched off other players on special teams instead of making anyone better.

All the crying about Forsberg and how they'll have to trade youth to fit him, even if they don't make enough to actually fit him, and with nobody "gelling" with Briere and Briere's NMC and long contract it's much more likely they'll have to trade someone because they need to find someone to not be wasted next to him. But who is it? And why should Gagne be relegated to the third line to babysit him?

He better be saving it for something important because if not it's going to be a long rest of his contract.

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02-04-2008, 08:17 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by sickamore View Post
When did any of these guys continually bail on the puck like they were heading for a line change at the beginning of their shifts? These guys may have never been bonecrushers, but there is no similarity to them and Briere's game. None. Talk about a moronic thing to say.
There is no similarity to a player like Briere and a player like Lemeiux or Gretsky or Sakic? NO, he is not a bona fide franchise star by any stretch of the imagination, but to say he isn't similar to an offensive-minded person with creativity. You are taking out of context what I was saying...the person before me said that you don't win with soft players. But you do. Am I wrong? A team full of Kris Draper's are not going to win the cup right? Thought so.

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02-04-2008, 09:28 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by theshotmaker View Post
Then don't post in the thread if you find the topic ridiculous. Move on and post somewhere else.
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Originally Posted by theshotmaker View Post
I'm not going after anybody but Danielle Briere. I'm disappointed with the signing, like many of my fellow fans are. Just because you and others may love the signing doesn't mean anyone is "going after you". I guess I should bow down to someone with 20,000 posts and agree with all of their opinions, otherwise I'm "going after them". Give me a break. I don't like the signing, I think the Flyers overpaid for him, I'd rather have Gomez instead. If that means I'm "going after" someone because they feel differently then so be it.
Ok, then dont post **** like the above when someone doesnt agree with you....For the record, I wasnt a big fan of the signing either, and wanted Gomez before the season started, but accepted that Briere looked good, until he had revolving linemates that didnt complement him.

1) Last time I checked, I dont think the cap hits Briere vs. Gomez are much different. I can give two ***** what the cash is, the Flyers have plenty of that

2) Bashing a pure offensive player for being soft or disappearing some nights is pointless, most purely offensive players are that way

3) The guy is on a ppg pace, has been a big contributor to having the #1 pp in the league, is on the same pace as last year in goals, with less talented linemates for the majority of this season. (was a ppg in each of the last two playoffs as well)

If you are going to ***** and moan about a player on the team, come up with a much more reasonable, intelligent argument. Get to know the posters on here before you start telling them to "get out of my thread if you dont agree" and being an arrogant little wise ass...I suspect your threads would not have too many posts in them and be a barren wasteland of stupidity if everyone drank your kool aid


Oh, and by the way, Briere has 10 points in the last 11 games....Really invisible if you ask me

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02-04-2008, 10:50 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by joethunder View Post
There is no similarity to a player like Briere and a player like Lemeiux or Gretsky or Sakic? NO, he is not a bona fide franchise star by any stretch of the imagination, but to say he isn't similar to an offensive-minded person with creativity. You are taking out of context what I was saying...the person before me said that you don't win with soft players. But you do. Am I wrong? A team full of Kris Draper's are not going to win the cup right? Thought so.
There's soft as in not hitters, then there's soft as in Briere throws the puck away in fear rather than use his speed and puckhandling ability to get into the zone or in position while keeping control of the puck.

You do not win with players who are scared and disappear, see last years playoffs where the Rangers and Sens used speed to lay hits on the Sabres as compared to the previous year when Sabrespeed kept people away giving the Sabres space.

You do win with confident puck handlers who use creativity to pass and score, but do not hit much or want to be hit.

Danny is the first version. It's an issue. He was losing ice time as the playoffs progressed. Wonder why?

If you had kept the definition of "soft" in context of Briere's play rather than compare him to guys he's never been or will be you would not have used them as references. Therefore it was moronic.

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02-04-2008, 11:11 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by theshotmaker
I'm not going after anybody but Danielle Briere. I'm disappointed with the signing, like many of my fellow fans are. Just because you and others may love the signing doesn't mean anyone is "going after you". I guess I should bow down to someone with 20,000 posts and agree with all of their opinions, otherwise I'm "going after them". Give me a break. I don't like the signing, I think the Flyers overpaid for him, I'd rather have Gomez instead. If that means I'm "going after" someone because they feel differently then so be it.
Q1: What were Gomez and Briere signed to do?
A1: Score points on the top scoring lines

Q2: Who is scoring more points?
A2: Daniel Briere

Q3: Who makes less money?
A3: Daniel Briere

50 points in 51 games with crap line mates for much of the year (how about an even strength inept Mike Knuble, and no Gagne, for starters) Gomez makes a million more and is not scoring at as high a rate as Danny is... he made the all star game only because of the 1 player per team rule

Danny can play better, but he's been exactly as advertised this season. He puts up points and transformed our power play into the deadliest unit in the league. Yeah, what a crappy signing :

If you want to bring grit and toughness into the discussion, Scott Gomez isn't really any better. Stupid thing to bring up when comparing players of this type...

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02-04-2008, 11:21 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Ok, then dont post **** like the above when someone doesnt agree with you....For the record, I wasnt a big fan of the signing either, and wanted Gomez before the season started, but accepted that Briere looked good, until he had revolving linemates that didnt complement him.

1) Last time I checked, I dont think the cap hits Briere vs. Gomez are much different. I can give two ***** what the cash is, the Flyers have plenty of that

2) Bashing a pure offensive player for being soft or disappearing some nights is pointless, most purely offensive players are that way

3) The guy is on a ppg pace, has been a big contributor to having the #1 pp in the league, is on the same pace as last year in goals, with less talented linemates for the majority of this season. (was a ppg in each of the last two playoffs as well)

If you are going to ***** and moan about a player on the team, come up with a much more reasonable, intelligent argument. Get to know the posters on here before you start telling them to "get out of my thread if you dont agree" and being an arrogant little wise ass...I suspect your threads would not have too many posts in them and be a barren wasteland of stupidity if everyone drank your kool aid


Oh, and by the way, Briere has 10 points in the last 11 games....Really invisible if you ask me
Good post until you resorted to name calling like your buddy. And as far as you telling me not to post certain things when someone doesn't agree with me, read the posts again. There have been several people in this thread who agree and disagree with me. How many of them did I call names or insult.....NONE. I asked one person not to post in the thread if they found the topic ridiculous. Notice how after I reported him, his post at 5:51 am this morning was on topic and contained no insults or name-calling. And for the record, the rules of this site, NOT ME, tell you to move on and not insult or personally attack people if you disagree and can't post in threads without staying on topic.

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02-04-2008, 11:36 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by theshotmaker View Post
Good post until you resorted to name calling like your buddy. And as far as you telling me not to post certain things when someone doesn't agree with me, read the posts again. There have been several people in this thread who agree and disagree with me. How many of them did I call names or insult.....NONE. I asked one person not to post in the thread if they found the topic ridiculous. Notice how after I reported him, his post at 5:51 am this morning was on topic and contained no insults or name-calling. And for the record, the rules of this site, NOT ME, tell you to move on and not insult or personally attack people if you disagree and can't post in threads without staying on topic.
Being honest dude as I have seen u in many threads, what players do you like on this team? You seem to go against everyone (so far Upshall and Briere) naming everything they do wrong. What kind of team did you want to see (player wise)?

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02-04-2008, 11:39 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
too bad stanley cups are not one on hockey pool stats. He is soft player. This type of guys never make a difference in the spring.
i dunno but in reading all of this briere bashing, i cant really think you guys are serious. im just picking apart this particular quote. i guess in the spring we dont want a guy with these stats from his previous two outings in the playoffs?

gp g a p +/- pim s s%
16 3 12 15 +3 16 49 6.12
18 8 11 19 0 12 47 17.02

of course maybe those stats are just padded by all the "diving" he did.

i know i havent posted here much but for someone to run their mouth by saying that a guy like daniel briere wont do anything come spring time obviously is just talking for the sake of talking.

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02-04-2008, 12:34 PM
  #60
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Good post until you resorted to name calling like your buddy. And as far as you telling me not to post certain things when someone doesn't agree with me, read the posts again. There have been several people in this thread who agree and disagree with me. How many of them did I call names or insult.....NONE. I asked one person not to post in the thread if they found the topic ridiculous. Notice how after I reported him, his post at 5:51 am this morning was on topic and contained no insults or name-calling. And for the record, the rules of this site, NOT ME, tell you to move on and not insult or personally attack people if you disagree and can't post in threads without staying on topic.
First off, I'm a she, not a he. Second off, to go back to the beginning, you really have no right to tell me where to or where not to post. YOU are bringing this thread off topic, not me. As for your alleged reporting of me, I haven't heard from a mod. But a little piece of advice, if you are going to report every person that disagrees with you on this forum, you are going to be very, very busy.

Now, to the topic at hand, I have to laugh when I see people here mentioning that they'd rather have Gomez, as 99+% of Ranger fans I have spoken with, and there are many, would like to string him up on an almost daily basis. You don't like the Briere signing--good for you, others do--good for us. I guess the only way to truly judge this signing is looking back at it once his contract is over. Personally, I'm not ready to judge someone who has played just over half a season with a ton of different linemates.

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Old
02-04-2008, 12:53 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
Q1: What were Gomez and Briere signed to do?
A1: Score points on the top scoring lines

Q2: Who is scoring more points?
A2: Daniel Briere

Q3: Who makes less money?
A3: Daniel Briere
Gomez has more points. Gomez is also not bleeding goals against like Briere is.

Briere doesn't make less money. He just has the lower cap hit. The lower cap hit is nice, but Gomez is younger than Briere. I'd rather have Gomez until he is 34 than Briere until he is 37. His contract is going to bite us in the end especially if we end up trading Carter who will be better than him at the backend of his contract.

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02-04-2008, 01:10 PM
  #62
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Hate to break it to you, but Gomez also has 4 more games played and only 2 more points. His shooting percentage is as bad as Umbergers and his +/- may be better than Briere's but it is still a lackluster +5.

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02-04-2008, 01:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by sickamore View Post
He was losing ice time as the playoffs progressed. Wonder why?
Not really true. Briere's ice time last playoffs was pretty consistent throughout. There were a few low TOI games interspersed, but they were largely due to a lot of PK stuff that threw off the rotation (according to Ruff) and he still never had under 20 shifts. He also had 3 assists and 26 shifts in the game with his lowest TOI - not exactly getting benched. The last three games of the playoffs he had 22, 19, and 22 minutes respectively.

Briere was a major reason why the Sabres got as far as they did the past two playoff seasons. He led the team in scoring both years; not exactly a disappearing act. He struggled more this past year - somewhat snakebitten at times and you're right that teams did a good job of keeping his line to the outside, but he still managed to put up a point per game and was a plus player. He's also scored a number of big playoff goals; I'm sure a certain double OT goal rings a bell, not to mention a game 6 ECF OT winner in '06 and two late game-tying goals this past year.

His size and ability to hold on to the puck can certainly be a concern, especially in the tighter checking of the playoffs. But to suggest that he hasn't shown up for the playoffs or doesn't have the ability to contribute in that atmosphere is blatantly incorrect based on his previous performances.


Last edited by tessa108: 02-04-2008 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Clarity
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02-04-2008, 02:47 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Gomez has more points. Gomez is also not bleeding goals against like Briere is.
Rangers have played 4 more games
Rangers goaltending is much better then what we have.

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02-04-2008, 03:08 PM
  #65
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Rangers have played 4 more games
Rangers goaltending is much better then what we have.
Yeah, so what if they played 4 more games? The point is Briere isn't doing much better than Gomez is offensively and is much worse defensively. Gomez is a positive contributor on a team that is struggling to score goals and has been streaky all season. He is having the better season.

Are you blaming Briere's poor even strength play on goaltending?

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02-04-2008, 03:32 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Libertine
Gomez has more points. Gomez is also not bleeding goals against like Briere is.

Briere doesn't make less money. He just has the lower cap hit.
He has 1 more point if 4 more games. Hence, Briere is pacing to outscore Gomez

And the Salary is completely transparent in terms of the salary cap. To the Flyers, and especially the fans, what he makes in a given year should not make a difference. Lower cap hit = more to spend on other players, it's a vital part of the contract he signed

As for the +/- hoopla... who cares. Like i said, he's made us one of the best power plays in the league... and that has been winning us games. Once Gagne starts playing to his ability and we find a winger who makes sense on the right side, Briere's even strength numbers will improve

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02-04-2008, 03:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Yeah, so what if they played 4 more games? The point is Briere isn't doing much better than Gomez is offensively and is much worse defensively. Gomez is a positive contributor on a team that is struggling to score goals and has been streaky all season. He is having the better season.

Are you blaming Briere's poor even strength play on goaltending?
+/-, goals against, are both team stats.

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02-04-2008, 03:54 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
He has 1 more point if 4 more games. Hence, Briere is pacing to outscore Gomez

And the Salary is completely transparent in terms of the salary cap. To the Flyers, and especially the fans, what he makes in a given year should not make a difference. Lower cap hit = more to spend on other players, it's a vital part of the contract he signed

As for the +/- hoopla... who cares. Like i said, he's made us one of the best power plays in the league... and that has been winning us games. Once Gagne starts playing to his ability and we find a winger who makes sense on the right side, Briere's even strength numbers will improve
He is on pace for 2 or 3 more points. Like I said, he is not doing significantly better than Gomez.

The lower cap hit isn't a huge difference. Especially considering he'll still have the same hit when he is 35,36,37 and he'll be the third best center on the team (assuming Carter is still here).

He didn't make us one of the best power plays on his own. Richards and Timonen deserve credit as well.

I don't hate Briere, I just don't see why people jump on a person for saying they prefer Gomez when Gomez is having a more solid season, IMO.

Personally, I just wonder if the Flyers would have been better off signing a stop-gap center for a year or 2 and letting Carter and Richards develop instead of going right out and investing so much in a center that will be the 3rd best center on the team by the end of his contract. I was for Briere at first, but now I think it wasn't the smartest move.

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02-04-2008, 04:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
He is on pace for 2 or 3 more points. Like I said, he is not doing significantly better than Gomez.

The lower cap hit isn't a huge difference. Especially considering he'll still have the same hit when he is 35,36,37 and he'll be the third best center on the team (assuming Carter is still here).

He didn't make us one of the best power plays on his own. Richards and Timonen deserve credit as well.

I don't hate Briere, I just don't see why people jump on a person for saying they prefer Gomez when Gomez is having a more solid season, IMO.

Personally, I just wonder if the Flyers would have been better off signing a stop-gap center for a year or 2 and letting Carter and Richards develop instead of going right out and investing so much in a center that will be the 3rd best center on the team by the end of his contract. I was for Briere at first, but now I think it wasn't the smartest move.
1st bold: So Briere is making less and producing more. I don't see what the problem is. Gomez is not a first line, $7 million player. He never has been. If playing with Jagr/Shanahan/Drury etc. are helping his numbers be more respectful, good for him.

2nd bold: That's something I've been asking myself, but how would Richards and Carter be performing without Briere I wonder?

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02-04-2008, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
He is on pace for 2 or 3 more points. Like I said, he is not doing significantly better than Gomez.

The lower cap hit isn't a huge difference. Especially considering he'll still have the same hit when he is 35,36,37 and he'll be the third best center on the team (assuming Carter is still here).

He didn't make us one of the best power plays on his own. Richards and Timonen deserve credit as well.

I don't hate Briere, I just don't see why people jump on a person for saying they prefer Gomez when Gomez is having a more solid season, IMO.

Personally, I just wonder if the Flyers would have been better off signing a stop-gap center for a year or 2 and letting Carter and Richards develop instead of going right out and investing so much in a center that will be the 3rd best center on the team by the end of his contract. I was for Briere at first, but now I think it wasn't the smartest move.

I don't understand how you can justify a somewhat better +/- as how Gomez is having such a better season than Briere. He has 2 more points in 4 more games and the +/- by the end of the year could be completely different.

Also how can you say the cap hit is NOT a huge difference? He's at about 1 million less, which allows for more room in a cap based world. If you could have two similiar skill players and the only difference is +/- wouldn't you rather have the cheaper of the two? It isn't like Gomez is a defensive superstar. Go look up how many less goals the Rangers have given up than the Flyers and then do a little calculation and I'm sure when that is all said and done Gomez's +/- looks a bit more like Briere's

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02-04-2008, 04:12 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine
He is on pace for 2 or 3 more points. Like I said, he is not doing significantly better than Gomez.

The lower cap hit isn't a huge difference. Especially considering he'll still have the same hit when he is 35,36,37 and he'll be the third best center on the team (assuming Carter is still here).
So you've gone from saying that Gomez is having a better year, to Gomez not doing significantly worse than Briere? Which is it?

How someone can say that the cap hit is not a big deal is beyond me. That 1 million we saved by siging Briere to that contract might be the difference between keeping Carter and losing him. 900k is a HUGE chunk of change in the cap world.

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02-04-2008, 04:17 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
1st bold: So Briere is making less and producing more. I don't see what the problem is. Gomez is not a first line, $7 million player. He never has been. If playing with Jagr/Shanahan/Drury etc. are helping his numbers be more respectful, good for him.

2nd bold: That's something I've been asking myself, but how would Richards and Carter be performing without Briere I wonder?
I agree Gomez is not a $7 million player but Briere also wasn't worth an 8 year deal. In hindsight, I wouldn't have signed any of the big 3.

I wonder that myself. I don't know what type of years they would be having if they signed someone like Comrie instead, but I don't think Briere makes any sense long term.

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02-04-2008, 04:19 PM
  #73
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The Comrie experiment failed miserably . . . unless you think we sign him and then trade him for someone like Handzus and Esche.

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02-04-2008, 04:30 PM
  #74
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I don't understand how you can justify a somewhat better +/- as how Gomez is having such a better season than Briere. He has 2 more points in 4 more games and the +/- by the end of the year could be completely different.

Also how can you say the cap hit is NOT a huge difference? He's at about 1 million less, which allows for more room in a cap based world. If you could have two similiar skill players and the only difference is +/- wouldn't you rather have the cheaper of the two? It isn't like Gomez is a defensive superstar. Go look up how many less goals the Rangers have given up than the Flyers and then do a little calculation and I'm sure when that is all said and done Gomez's +/- looks a bit more like Briere's
I didn't say he is having such a better year, but I believe his season is more solid because he is a more well-rounded player.

Yes, we save up front with Briere, but he is more likely going to be an albatross at the end of his deal so in the end for me it is not a huge difference. No, I don't necessarily want the cheaper of the two if the cheaper of the two is older and will be here an extra year. That has to be factored in as well. But like I said in my previous post, I wouldn't have signed either of them.

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Originally Posted by kz View Post
So you've gone from saying that Gomez is having a better year, to Gomez not doing significantly worse than Briere? Which is it?

How someone can say that the cap hit is not a big deal is beyond me. That 1 million we saved by siging Briere to that contract might be the difference between keeping Carter and losing him. 900k is a HUGE chunk of change in the cap world.
I should have clarified more. Briere's is not doing much better offensively, but I think Gomez' season is more solid because he is more well-rounded. Either way it's not a significant difference so those of you are harping over Briere's slightly better point production look silly.

Like I said, the cap difference gives us more flexibility upfront, but Briere is more likely going to be an albatross at the end. That's not much more appealing to me than Gomez' cap hit.

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Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
The Comrie experiment failed miserably . . . unless you think we sign him and then trade him for someone like Handzus and Esche.
Haha Comrie was just an example. You're ignoring the point. A stop-gap would just give us a body to take the pressure off of youngsters to let them develop while maintaining flexibility.

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02-04-2008, 04:54 PM
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I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is there weren't many, if any, decent stop gap centers and that is what the Flyers would have wanted. Handzus is all right, but we needed a guy who'd be able to play on the 1st line.

Coming off last season with all that pressure on them Carter and Richards were terrible, as were everyone else. Coming into this season with added pressure because they would be the number 1 and 2 guys again doesn't help any if they aren't ready to take on the responsibility.

It is a nothing short of amazing how good Richards is playing . . . and that could even be because of having a guy like Briere around helping him out some behind the scenes. Richards also has a lot of points off the PP which is aided by Briere either winning faceoffs or Briere gaining control off of a Richards faceoff win and setting up a play.

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