HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

HOH Top 100- First Round of Voting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-12-2008, 01:23 AM
  #101
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 11,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Ouch, completely forgot that deadline...
If it's not too late, I'd like to submit my list, but I probably won't get it done before wednesday, feb. 13, PM.
No problem. With the extended deadline you have plenty of time. I was expecting at least 25-30 lists so when a day before the deadline I only had 13 I knew that people probably needed more time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
I do agree with extending the deadline though because there's a lot of ATD guys and others who haven't voted yet. Should we start sending PMs reminding people who have mentioned earlier that they wanted to be a part of this?
I think that wouldn't be an awful idea. I don't feel it's appropriate for myself as a "moderator" of sorts to be soliciting participants but I highly encourage you to contact as many qualified and knowledgable potential participants as you can. The more lists we get, the more voters we'll have for Round 2 and the more representative the list will be of the HOH community. If we get 30 lists I'll be thrilled and if we get 50 I'll do cartwheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micd Up View Post
Wow Neely is vastly overrated. He is a lot closer to guys like Palffy than what you guys are saying. Neely over Thronton? Selanne? Wowy, I know he is a very popular player, but I'm sure most of us have watched Neely and watched Thronton and Selanne and Palffy, and well. I don't know how the first two can be considered lesser players than Neely at all.

It's not about stats, and stats are extremely important in offensive evaluation of players, after taken in context of course. More important than award voting IMO.

Watching Neely and Palffy play, you saw very similar players offensively. No non biased person could call Palffy a perimeter player. Yes Neely fought. This isn't a plus in my eyes, and can be detrimental to a players worth in many cases. Yes Neely was more physical and better defensively and better in the playoffs, though Palffy played on terrible playoff teams. It's like people who bash Dionne for his supposed playoff choking, not realizing how well Dionne played when his teams went to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

But to say that Neely is 200 or so spots above Palffy is ridiculous.

Palffy was a great goal scorer, he did it by himself, he wasn't afraid to go into the boards, go into traffic, and he put up results.
Interesting take. I look forward to seeing your list when you submit it.

__________________
Carpe Diem!!
FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 02:02 AM
  #102
ck26
Alcoholab User
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 10,701
vCash: 141
Where did this initials thing come from???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Oops. Yeah, I have 2 DHs in the top ten, the surprise, the modern one is higher.
I also have them both in the top ten. I can see no dispute that the modern one goes that high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
MM is my first repeating initials. Then JJ. I have two CCs back to back.
I have my first CC before JJ, and there are two SS'es right behind him, all in the top 60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I have MM outside the top 20, but, that should surprise no one.
I have a 2nd MM right at 120, a very generous choice that will raise absolutely every eyebrow in the room ...

Haven't seen anyone mention JK, BT, LR and NL. I have all four in the top 40, and might have each of their highest votes.

My (potentially) glaring omissions were GF, CN, HTB and EL.

ck26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 02:07 AM
  #103
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Oops. Yeah, I have 2 DHs in the top ten, the surprise, the modern one is higher.

MM is my first repeating initials. Then JJ. I have two CCs back to back.

Then I have one SS much later and one SS by nickname even later.



I have MM outside the top 20, but, that should surprise no one...

Ok, good, cause that JR would be a dwaaaaah pick. Not necissarily a throw the list out pick, but, a shocker.

FM, it just really bugs me how little he achieved with his talents.

BP, realized I have two BPs, one is top 40, the other, much much lower.

Can you give a brief description of said BG, I have an offensive BG in the top 60, a BG d-man in the top 70 and a defensive BG in the top 120.

PF outside the top 120, bold, but in a good way.
- Seriously, that's a good one!

- MM, after that JJ in the 30's, CC in the top 40, SS in the 40's, CC and PP in the top-50 and BB and SS in the 80's.

- I would need a complete brainwash if I had THAT JR on my list

- Definitely, I normally don't like those kind of players. Perhaps it's because I never saw him play and mostly only read on him that I have him this high. Something to think about ....

- Then again, I have two BP's in my 40's ... I wonder which one you don't like.

- My offensive BG is in my 30's, the defensive BG is in my 60's and the defensive BG in the 90's. The fact that Murphy always take BG this high gave false impression that everyone would take him that high too. Guess I'm not alone.

- I never understood why this guy was so hyped. It's EL without the mighty peak

EagleBelfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 02:09 AM
  #104
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,412
vCash: 500
I have BT and LR one after the other in the top 30 and an NL even higher. I rank JK lower. He's stands as one of the hardest players ever to rank because of the obvious question marks regarding his line mates.

And comming from you, a certain MM would not surprise me.

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 02:12 AM
  #105
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
- Definitely, I normally don't like those kind of players. Perhaps it's because I never saw him play and mostly only read on him that I have him this high. Something to think about ....

- Then again, I have two BP's in my 40's ... I wonder which one you don't like.

- I never understood why this guy was so hyped. It's EL without the mighty peak
-I may rank him lower because I never saw him play and what I read rubs me the wrong way.
-The one with a very very short peak...
-Without international play, I'd have him much lower.

Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 09:38 AM
  #106
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
MM is my first repeating initials. Then JJ. I have two CCs back to back.

Then I have one SS much later and one SS by nickname even later.
Wow. The first part of that is identical to mine, even the two CCs being back-to-back. I have two SSs, but not the one with the nickname. The only other repeats I can find on mine are PP and VV.

The most common initials on mine are 3 M.B.s, 3 B.C.s and 3 G.Hs, though all 9 of those guys will likely be on everyones list. I considered the 3rd B.G. (Murphy's guy) but ultimately decided against it because I'm not convinced he was that much better than others playing the same role on non-dynasty teams.

Quote:
PF outside the top 120, bold, but in a good way.
Well Gretzky did say he was top-5 all-time, but I think he's said that about dozens of players over the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD
NS OUT,
Are you talking about the forward or defenceman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonking
My (potentially) glaring omissions were GF, CN, HTB and EL.
As I mentioned earlier, I think I'll have EL higher than anyone else. With GF (made my list) and CN (didn't), those two guys are going to have two of the highest variances of opinions. There's many on here who will say they're both overrated and don't deserve to be in the Hall, there's others who will say they were among the very best all-time at their role.

I have no clue who HTB is. That extra initial is throwing me off.

reckoning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 09:40 AM
  #107
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 34,372
vCash: 500
...Also have : a JM in my Top-30, an AO in my list, and a TD at 122.
Amongst identical initials, a TT (by nickname) missed the cut by a few ranks, and my list has a guy with TRIPLE initials (albeit rather low)...

I would have never ranked the younger DH in the Top-10. But he's in my Top-20. Just a rank below some kind of countrymen.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 09:46 AM
  #108
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 34,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post


Are you talking about the forward or defenceman?



As I mentioned earlier, I think I'll have EL higher than anyone else. With GF (made my list) and CN (didn't), those two guys are going to have two of the highest variances of opinions. There's many on here who will say they're both overrated and don't deserve to be in the Hall, there's others who will say they were among the very best all-time at their role.

I have no clue who HTB is. That extra initial is throwing me off.
I was talking about the forward, but the D-Men didn't made it either. Both are on my 120-130 spots.

CN made it in my list, Top-90. Couldn't really justify putting him much lower than the younger DK. Some would put him above, but role on the team convinced me otherwise.

I have one triple initial. Don't have a clue about HTB. I have a TB in the Top-40, but the proper initial would have been WTB.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 11:16 AM
  #109
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micd Up View Post
Wow Neely is vastly overrated. He is a lot closer to guys like Palffy than what you guys are saying. Neely over Thronton? Selanne? Wowy, I know he is a very popular player, but I'm sure most of us have watched Neely and watched Thronton and Selanne and Palffy, and well. I don't know how the first two can be considered lesser players than Neely at all.

It's not about stats, and stats are extremely important in offensive evaluation of players, after taken in context of course. More important than award voting IMO.

Watching Neely and Palffy play, you saw very similar players offensively. No non biased person could call Palffy a perimeter player. Yes Neely fought. This isn't a plus in my eyes, and can be detrimental to a players worth in many cases. Yes Neely was more physical and better defensively and better in the playoffs, though Palffy played on terrible playoff teams. It's like people who bash Dionne for his supposed playoff choking, not realizing how well Dionne played when his teams went to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

But to say that Neely is 200 or so spots above Palffy is ridiculous.

Palffy was a great goal scorer, he did it by himself, he wasn't afraid to go into the boards, go into traffic, and he put up results.


Had neely been on a good leg when Oates arrived in Boston, he likely has a few 70-80 goal seasons.
Even without Oates he was a 50+ goal scorer twice, and he was just hitting his prime(Power forwards always develop slower)

Neely was a cut above. He was a freak of nature that players feared like they did Lindros if he was forechecking, and he was capable of going right through you, or around you with his smooth skating moves. Hell, Scott Stevens once hit him squarely, and bounced right off Neely's chest, as Neely went en route to a goal. He was responsible defensively. He was one of two superstars on those Bruins teams, Bourque being the other and they made the finals twice with a one line team + several roleplayers. They Arguably would have won the cup in 91 had Samuelsson not taken Neely out. They were winning 2 games to 0 the game Neely got his leg crunched.

The closest comparison player to Neely right now would be iginla, but he isn't really close at all.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 04:14 PM
  #110
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
As I mentioned earlier, I think I'll have EL higher than anyone else. With GF (made my list) and CN (didn't), those two guys are going to have two of the highest variances of opinions. There's many on here who will say they're both overrated and don't deserve to be in the Hall, there's others who will say they were among the very best all-time at their role.

I have no clue who HTB is. That extra initial is throwing me off.
HTB would be H"T"B and better known as a coach...

GF barely made my list. Chuck Norris on the other hand is in my top 10. Seriously though, CN barely made list. I have EL in my top 75.

Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 05:56 PM
  #111
Kyle McMahon
Registered User
 
Kyle McMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Evil Empire
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonking View Post
I have a 2nd MM right at 120, a very generous choice that will raise absolutely every eyebrow in the room ...
I also have an MM at 120, though I suspect we're speaking of different players.

I have HHH inside my top-70, I'm guessing I've ranked him the highest out of anybody. I've probably also given CT the highest rating of us all, as he nearly cracks my top-10.

Kyle McMahon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 06:09 PM
  #112
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,288
vCash: 500
Neither GF nor CN made my list (I'll probably be the only one).

pitseleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 06:15 PM
  #113
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
HTB would be H"T"B and better known as a coach...

GF barely made my list. Chuck Norris on the other hand is in my top 10. Seriously though, CN barely made list. I have EL in my top 75.
-HTB is on my list and higher than EL (related)

- GF isn't on my list

- CN barely made my list

- EL is in my top 80.


Oh yea, and a surprise pick ... GH is number 2.

EagleBelfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 06:49 PM
  #114
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
I also have an MM at 120, though I suspect we're speaking of different players.

I have HHH inside my top-70, I'm guessing I've ranked him the highest out of anybody. I've probably also given CT the highest rating of us all, as he nearly cracks my top-10.
I know an HH that could fit somewhere if you like him, but no HHH...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Oh yea, and a surprise pick ... GH is number 2.
Not as shocking as you think. Same here.


Last edited by Nalyd Psycho: 02-12-2008 at 07:00 PM.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 07:15 PM
  #115
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 34,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I know an HH that could fit somewhere if you like him, but no HHH...


Not as shocking as you think. Same here.
HH would probably have made it past my honorable mentions. 130 and above.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 08:06 PM
  #116
ck26
Alcoholab User
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 10,701
vCash: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
I also have an MM at 120, though I suspect we're speaking of different players.
I can't wait to see your list, because I have absolutely no idea who you're talking about. Not a clue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
GH is number 2.
I see no reasonable justification for putting him any lower.

ck26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 08:08 PM
  #117
Kyle McMahon
Registered User
 
Kyle McMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Evil Empire
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I know an HH that could fit somewhere if you like him, but no HHH...
I guess I meant H "H" H, the middle H being his nickname.

Kyle McMahon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 08:12 PM
  #118
Kyle McMahon
Registered User
 
Kyle McMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Evil Empire
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonking View Post
I can't wait to see your list, because I have absolutely no idea who you're talking about. Not a clue.
Haha, well if you really want to know I can tell you. I'm pretty sure he did go in the top-300 of the last ATD.

Quote:
I see no reasonable justification for putting him any lower.
You don't think it's at all reasonable to place WG or BO above GH?

Kyle McMahon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 08:29 PM
  #119
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 34,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
I guess I meant H "H" H, the middle H being his nickname.
Hummm.... I have two DK on my list, so... Both HH will be considered heavy head-scratchers. 100 to 120 will see lots of personnal favorites. DK the old, TD (who was originally in my Top-120), MG, JCT.... HHH screams "rising eyebrows", but the same could be said for DK. The worst is... BOTH HH I can think of have a nickname starting by H... Only the older guy got his nickname commonly used, though.

Oh...First HH played in more than one league, and second HH should have a picture of himself beside the syntagm (sp.... french word...) Stay-At-Home Defensemen.


Last edited by MXD: 02-12-2008 at 08:43 PM.
MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 08:36 PM
  #120
ck26
Alcoholab User
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 10,701
vCash: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Haha, well if you really want to know I can tell you. I'm pretty sure he did go in the top-300 of the last ATD.
There are two MM's (mine plus two others) that you might be talking about. Both were dominant but in completely different ways. The old-timer I understand but I would completely disagree with. The new-timer I don't understand (at all) but would sorta agree with, given that the rest of the list is viewed through a certain-colored lens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
You don't think it's at all reasonable to place WG or BO above GH?
One, but not both. Similar to the MM's ... the criteria that rank WG first must rank BO a couple slots down, and the opposite is true as well.

... all IMHO of course. I can't wait for the totals to be added up.

ck26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 08:36 PM
  #121
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 34,372
vCash: 500
GH was 4th.... No more, no less. Had I listened to TL, he would have been 5th, but I feared rejection.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 09:00 PM
  #122
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I think I have 8 WHA'ers.
I have 12. You probably have more than 8. A lot of stars played briefly there and aren't remembered for it: A.B., M.M., B.P., J.P., N.U.

reckoning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 09:25 PM
  #123
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 34,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
I have 12. You probably have more than 8. A lot of stars played briefly there and aren't remembered for it: A.B., M.M., B.P., J.P., N.U.
NU ISN'T in my list. Wasn't sure if MM played there, and never thought AB did. Granted, my list have some BB (Baby Bulls...) on it. Definitely more than 8.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 09:27 PM
  #124
DaveG
Global Moderator
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Raleigh NC
Country: United States
Posts: 38,588
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Well not THE JR, but more modest one He shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

I'm very surprised with these two. I understand not everyone likes FM style and laziness, but outside 80 is kind of low. As for BP, very big surprise, as I have him just outside my top-50.

As for my surprise on the ''other side of the coin"

MM outside top-20
AM just barely in the top-50
BG outside top-90
PF outside top-120
Thankfully I'm not the only one that had similar thoughts about MM. I felt he was WAY too highly rated when I first saw The Hockey News list.

another couple "odd" picks I may have are VK in my top 20 and RF in my top 50

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2008, 09:59 PM
  #125
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 34,372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Thankfully I'm not the only one that had similar thoughts about MM. I felt he was WAY too highly rated when I first saw The Hockey News list.

another couple "odd" picks I may have are VK in my top 20 and RF in my top 50
I have VK in my top-50... and considered to lower him little. I listened to common sense and still have him abobe BM, but I don't know exactly why I did so.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.