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Old
09-26-2006, 06:09 PM
  #101
hdw
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Originally Posted by SIU LAW View Post
I personally find this to be a very aggravating situation. Despite some arguments that this is not a “big deal,” I disagree for a few reasons.

- It is apparent that Soderberg has skill. However, it is also obvious that he needs to adapt to the “North American” game. That is not going to happen in Sweden.

- Quite frankly, Soderberg needs to learn the English language. While nothing will prevent him from doing that in Sweden, I think it is unlikely he will study up while in Sweden. The language barrier was an…issue is too strong a word…but was a hindrance in Michigan during the prospect tournament. Because of the language barrier, Backes, for example, could not describe and plan a simple faceoff strategy with fellow line mate Soderberg.

- Soderberg needs to be here with Backes, Birner and ect. These guys are hopefully the “next wave” of Blues and need to be growing/gelling together in Peoria.

- Soderberg signed a contract, a commitment, this past summer. He is now walking away from it, and is a black mark on his character. Not a big deal you say? I guarantee it is a big deal to Jarmo. When I get a chance to put it up, you will see that he did not like Kana’s decision to back out of a commitment (assuming he actually did commit, more on that in the blog).

- Related to the commitment issue, Soderberg has potentially put Peoria in a difficult position. They/the Blues signed him early this summer. Look at the center depth. We are missing some skill there now. Perhaps Peoria/St. Louis would have made other arrangements or an acquisition if they knew Soderberg was going to return to Sweden.

Hopefully, this is just a bump in the road (ala Schwarz) and not a longtime absence from the organization.
It's possible that he needs to learn english, but the US is hardly the best place to do that.

Second, why would anyone play in AHL?
Being a nobody with the salary of a nobody?
Or getting back home and be a elite player and get a decent salary?

And just who cares about Peoria? It's an AHL team, not a real one.

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09-26-2006, 06:56 PM
  #102
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I agree with you that since he can make more money over in Sweeden where he is more comfortable it makes sense. The main reason for staying in Peoria would be that he can build chemistry with some of the prospects that will be graduating to the NHL soon, like Backes, Birner, and possibly Skhotov if he does end up making it over this year. I think if he would have stayed in Peoria that he would have been called up to play in the NHL when injuries occur. Right now if Cajaneck or Weight go down the Blues may have to trade for a replacement, because they have no depth down the middle. If Soderberg felt that he physically isn't ready for the NHL and thinks he needs to build up his strength over the next year to get better prepared for the NHL, then I can live with his decision. I know he feels some loyalty to Malmo after helping them get to the Elite League. Hopefully he will get an opportunity to play on Team Sweeden if he does well in the Elite League this year.

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09-26-2006, 07:03 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by hdw View Post
It's possible that he needs to learn english, but the US is hardly the best place to do that.
I expect an explanation on this. It's like saying, "The best place to learn Russian isn't in Russia", "The best place to learn French isn't in France" and so forth.

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Originally Posted by hdw View Post
Second, why would anyone play in AHL?
Being a nobody with the salary of a nobody?
Or getting back home and be a elite player and get a decent salary?
Well ... aside from getting used to the North American rink, the North American style of play ... knowing that a call-up and a chance to show your stuff could be a phone call away if you show you can handle the game at that level ... well, aside from that, you're right. Drawing a $45,000 salary and having your housing expenses paid for and getting a per diem while being one step away from at least a tenfold bump in pay and even more benefits is pretty much nothing.

I'm curious to know what Soderberg made last year in Sweden, and will be making this year.

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Originally Posted by hdw View Post
And just who cares about Peoria? It's an AHL team, not a real one.
The same could be said about the top leagues in Sweden and Finland and certainly about the levels under the top league from the POV of people here in North America ... but I'm guessing that few people in NA (and none of the other Blues posters here) would stoop to that level to make such a comment, further underscoring how ridiculous and inflammatory that comment is.

But I'm going to leave it up. I find that when someone makes a stupid comment, it's better to leave it up and let everyone else see just how stupid it is.

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09-26-2006, 07:15 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Quas View Post
I agree with you that since he can make more money over in Sweeden where he is more comfortable it makes sense. The main reason for staying in Peoria would be that he can build chemistry with some of the prospects that will be graduating to the NHL soon, like Backes, Birner, and possibly Skhotov if he does end up making it over this year. I think if he would have stayed in Peoria that he would have been called up to play in the NHL when injuries occur. Right now if Cajaneck or Weight go down the Blues may have to trade for a replacement, because they have no depth down the middle. If Soderberg felt that he physically isn't ready for the NHL and thinks he needs to build up his strength over the next year to get better prepared for the NHL, then I can live with his decision. I know he feels some loyalty to Malmo after helping them get to the Elite League. Hopefully he will get an opportunity to play on Team Sweeden if he does well in the Elite League this year.
He'll make more money, he'll be more comfortable, he'll have more fun and he'll have a good chance of getting a better contract later on.

I think he felt fully prepared for NHL but they didn't want him and wasting time in AHL wont get him anywhere.

He wants to play in the NHL, not the AHL, and I don't think he bothers one cent about what NHL team he plays for.

So having someone say, "now be a good boy and play with the garbage and we might ponder to let you play up here" isn't a very good deal.

Much better to say, "no thanks", go back home, play in a good league and see if there's a better offer.

If not he'll have a good life with a good salary, if there's another contract, well take it.

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09-26-2006, 07:55 PM
  #105
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In case you missed it (and apparently you did), Soderberg signed a 3-year entry-level contract on June 1, 2006. That means he's not getting a better contract for the next 3 years. Period. It also means that he's property of the Blues until he turns 27, unless between now and the time he turns 25 he can play 3 pro seasons in North America and not play 80 NHL games.

I think you woefully underestimate the amount of effort needed to make the adjustment from the European style of play to the North American game. Sure, a few players make it every year in their first shot - but a lot more have to spend a year or more elsewhere in North America to make the transition. From all reviews on Soderberg this preseason, he's definitely got skill but he in no way, shape or form is ready to play in the NHL right now.

At the end of the season? Sure, maybe. Right now? No way. Not unless you think playing 6 minutes on the 4th line in the NHL is better than playing 20-22 minutes on the 1st line in the AHL for his long-term development. He's not better at this point in time than Tkachuk, Weight, Guerin, Dvorak, Rucinsky, Cajanek, McClement, Mayers, Hinote, and Drake. To think otherwise is just silly - even Soderberg's most ardent supporters within Blues fans will admit he's not ready at this point in time.

So if you think Soderberg can just sit in Sweden and name his team whenever he wants in another year or so, or that he can get a better contract offer after this season,

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09-26-2006, 08:11 PM
  #106
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Ahh...a Red Wings fan trying to stir up trouble.

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09-26-2006, 08:16 PM
  #107
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Isn't it in his contract that he can go back to the SEL this year if he wants to? He doesn't seem to be breaking any commitment. We only drafted him 2 years ago. A lot of prospects play their junior overage year, but he's going to a top men's league. Backman took 4 years to comeover if you remember, Sweden is a very nice place I imagine it's hard to leave.

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09-26-2006, 08:52 PM
  #108
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Perhaps I should make a slight retraction about not honoring his commitment, I did not realize that Soderberg had an escape clause in his contract:

Link

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Soderberg back to Sweden

One of the Blues top forward prospects is headed back to his native Sweden as center Carl Soderberg chose playing professionally for Malmo in the Swedish Elite League over the AHL's Peoria Rivermen.

The 6-foot-3, 200-pound center was the Blues' second-round pick (49th overall) in 2004. He signed an entry-level contract this summer which included a clause that would allow him to return home.

"It's a big step for a 20-year-old to come in here and I guess he's not ready to make that step yet," Kitchen said. "It's a culture shock, coming over here to a different country and things like that. I think he feels much more comfortable to play in the Swedish Elite League than playing in Peoria right now."

The Blues met with Soderberg on Sunday night and again Monday before the decision was finalized.

"We knew during the offseason that it was going to be a question mark," Blues President John Davidson said. "He really feels that he'd like to play one more year in Sweden before he comes over here. We're all on the same page."

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09-27-2006, 04:59 AM
  #109
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I didn't catch that part about a language barrier. It suprise me, I thought most swedish players had a decent english when they left. Of course there're some differencies btw watching a sit com and getting instruction how to do a face off play but it still suprises me.

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09-27-2006, 05:02 AM
  #110
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one thing that I'd like to learn more about is how the blues are going to keep in touch with him? Are they giving him a trainingprogram to get stronger? or do they leave that for his coach in malmö?

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09-27-2006, 06:34 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloom View Post
I didn't catch that part about a language barrier. It suprise me, I thought most swedish players had a decent english when they left. Of course there're some differencies btw watching a sit com and getting instruction how to do a face off play but it still suprises me.
The difference between the good english students and the bad is huge...

I remember in gymnasiet (grades 10-12) I was astounished how some of the people there were able to make it through to there with their poor english...

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09-27-2006, 06:47 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
In case you missed it (and apparently you did), Soderberg signed a 3-year entry-level contract on June 1, 2006. That means he's not getting a better contract for the next 3 years. Period. It also means that he's property of the Blues until he turns 27, unless between now and the time he turns 25 he can play 3 pro seasons in North America and not play 80 NHL games.

I think you woefully underestimate the amount of effort needed to make the adjustment from the European style of play to the North American game. Sure, a few players make it every year in their first shot - but a lot more have to spend a year or more elsewhere in North America to make the transition. From all reviews on Soderberg this preseason, he's definitely got skill but he in no way, shape or form is ready to play in the NHL right now.

At the end of the season? Sure, maybe. Right now? No way. Not unless you think playing 6 minutes on the 4th line in the NHL is better than playing 20-22 minutes on the 1st line in the AHL for his long-term development. He's not better at this point in time than Tkachuk, Weight, Guerin, Dvorak, Rucinsky, Cajanek, McClement, Mayers, Hinote, and Drake. To think otherwise is just silly - even Soderberg's most ardent supporters within Blues fans will admit he's not ready at this point in time.

So if you think Soderberg can just sit in Sweden and name his team whenever he wants in another year or so, or that he can get a better contract offer after this season,

First off, sorry if I sounded aggro, it's wasn't my intention.

And it's not between close to zero time in NHL vs lots of time in AHL.

It's between lots of time in AHL and lots of time in SEL.

Neither was I saying that he should get a spot on the NHL roster, but that he would develop better in SEL, which is good for him and good for Blues.

Which is way he had that clause in his contract, and why several NHL teams prefer to 'lease' the players back to a team in SEL instead of assigning them to AHL.

Some euro players develop well in AHL, esp the somewhat older ones who feel that they've done what they can at home and want a new challenge. But many doesn't. And for them it's better to crawl back home and try to develop there before trying again.

It's not like he's going back to sit on his behind and loaf around, he'll be working out just as hard and play elite hockey with Redhawks and he might even get som international games under his belt.

And what's good for him is good for Blues.

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09-27-2006, 03:37 PM
  #113
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Soderberg didn´t want to play in the US this season he wanted to stay in Sweden and develope in SEL but S.t Louis put a lot of pressure on him in the end of may and that was the reason why he signed the contract. Blues made a mistake by forcing him to do so but I think that they finally understood that he is much better of playing in the swedish leage instead of throwing away a year in Peoria. Don´t forget that Soderberg is a smart intelligent player and he will for sure not find many players like him in Peoria to play with.


Last edited by johpers: 09-27-2006 at 03:45 PM.
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09-27-2006, 04:02 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johpers View Post
Soderberg didn´t want to play in the US this season he wanted to stay in Sweden and develope in SEL but S.t Louis put a lot of pressure on him in the end of may and that was the reason why he signed the contract. Blues made a mistake by forcing him to do so but I think that they finally understood that he is much better of playing in the swedish leage instead of throwing away a year in Peoria. Don´t forget that Soderberg is a smart intelligent player and he will for sure not find many players like him in Peoria to play with.
I think you are under-estimating the talent in Peoria. If you are saying that guys like Birner and Backes, just to name two, are not intellegent or skilled enough to play with Carl, then maybe you are over-estimating him. The best thing for him and his CAREER would have been to stay in the farm club and learn the ropes. I think the real reason he left is because noone bought him a Budwieser, Imo's pizza, toasted ravioli, or Syberg's wings!

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09-27-2006, 04:30 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
I think the real reason he left is because noone bought him a Budwieser, Imo's pizza, toasted ravioli, or Syberg's wings!
Actually I think the thruth is that someone did buy him Bud, that why he left

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09-27-2006, 05:19 PM
  #116
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I strongly suggest you stop it.

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09-27-2006, 05:51 PM
  #117
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I think that last one was a joke...

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09-27-2006, 06:26 PM
  #118
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Latest news:

St Louis has agreed loan him out and he will arrive in Sweden tomorrow if I have understood correctly. 2-3 SEL teams were pushing hard to get his signature, but it's Malmö where he wants to play. He will sign a contract with Malmö tomorrow or on Friday, if nothing unexpected happens, and will probably play his first game on Saturday.

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09-27-2006, 11:40 PM
  #119
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Actually I think the thruth is that someone did buy him Bud, that why he left
All beer tastes like junk when its been bottled stored and shipped for the past 6-9 months. They have it in local stores here about a week after its done.

i've never once drank an import i liked, and I've never even heard of a any kind of swedish beer.

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09-28-2006, 05:15 AM
  #120
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All beer tastes like junk when its been bottled stored and shipped for the past 6-9 months. They have it in local stores here about a week after its done.

i've never once drank an import i liked, and I've never even heard of a any kind of swedish beer.
that's because we keep it for ourself. Anyway. To get back to the subject I hope he plays in Malmö, they would give him plenty of ice time and their coaches know him.

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09-28-2006, 11:32 AM
  #121
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I'm a little disappointed that he choose to go back to Sweden, would have been better for him to stay here and get used to playing with other prospects, but I was expecting him to play in Sweden this year to begin with.

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09-28-2006, 11:57 AM
  #122
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I'm a little disappointed that he choose to go back to Sweden, would have been better for him to stay here and get used to playing with other prospects, but I was expecting him to play in Sweden this year to begin with.
The only thing that matters is that he will be a very good center in the future and if he think that SEL is the best choice for him to make progress it´s good for S.t Louis too.

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10-01-2006, 10:16 AM
  #123
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Personally I think that Söderberg would´ve been better off in AHL than playing another season of no-contact hockey in Sweden. And I seriously doubt that he´s making that much more money in Sweden than he would´ve in AHL. If his ambition in life is to have fun, maybe he should marry HRH princess Madeleine and forget about hockey.

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10-01-2006, 11:32 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Karamahti View Post
Personally I think that Söderberg would´ve been better off in AHL than playing another season of no-contact hockey in Sweden. And I seriously doubt that he´s making that much more money in Sweden than he would´ve in AHL. If his ambition in life is to have fun, maybe he should marry HRH princess Madeleine and forget about hockey.
With the new rule interpretations in both NHL and SEL I don't the difference is that big.

And if his ambition is to develop his hockey I think it's a smart move (as does Blues which is way they wrote the contract that way).

For an established SEL player the AHL grind is a useful experience, for a young developing european player I think it's a risk not worth taking.

And I think he should stay away from HRH, his silly accent would be the ridicule of downtown stockholm.

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10-01-2006, 11:47 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by hdw View Post
With the new rule interpretations in both NHL and SEL I don't the difference is that big.

For an established SEL player the AHL grind is a useful experience, for a young developing european player I think it's a risk not worth taking.

And I think he should stay away from HRH, his silly accent would be the ridicule of downtown stockholm.
The difference in style is huge and if you have seen any games ever, you should know that. Since he seems to be a bit on the soft side, that´s why I thought it would serve him better to play in AHL because he needs to get adjusted tothe NA style.

What comes to HRH, you are right, he better leave her to me

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