Wow. In my defense, I was only hoping for a top 6 center. Not necessarily a bona-fide, franchise, all-star #1 center here. My point was that we have way too many 3rd/4th liners and semi-decent defensemen. We need to package some of them together together to trade up.
Trading Nash for several roster players goes the wrong direction IMO.
P.S. This is really difficult to keep the trade talk limited to one thread with about 4 of them to choose from.
I don't understand why everyone keeps throwing OKT's name in the trade block. We just let Shelley go and now you want to get rid of another tough guy on our team? Watch how many liberties teams take with our star players when we only have Boll to stick up for them. Get rid of Krusty Klesla instead, clearly.
I don't understand why everyone keeps throwing OKT's name in the trade block. We just let Shelley go and now you want to get rid of another tough guy on our team? Watch how many liberties teams take with our star players when we only have Boll to stick up for them. Get rid of Krusty Klesla instead, clearly.
Again, hard to defend anyone from the press box. OKT fits less and less in this team's future. Once Methot is a regular on the team, OKT is a goner.
Not just our future, i cant imagine anyone in the entire NHL who would want a 23 year old defensemen who sticks up for his teammates and is responsilbe in his own end
We should trade Klesla because everyone seems to think he is the seven wonder of the world when in reality he is not that good.
The guy couldn't make a pass or get it out of his own end if his life depended on it. Hes good along the boards but doesnt know what to do with it after that.
If we trade Klesla I will kill someone. He is coming around nicely. It takes several years for a defenseman to develope into an NHL player. Rusty is there now and playing his best hockey of his career.
Columbus has put him on re-entry waivers. What that means, among other things, is that another NHL team can claim him.
If another team takes him, they are responsible for 50 percent of his remaining contract. He makes $1.1 million this year, $1.85 million next year and $1.85 million in two years.
If he is not claimed by noon Tuesday, it's likely the Blue Jackets would send him back to the Crunch. Columbus can buy out Westcott at the end of his season for 75 percent of his remaining deal. So the Blue Jackets are hoping, of course, that another NHL team puts in a claim and saves them a bunch of money.
"This has been in the cards,'' Westcott said of the move. "I love playing hockey. I'd love to play back in the NHL. It's a sit and wait game right now.''
I guess people want OKT scratched/traded because his +3 rating is too good for this team, were only used to and praise people with -10 ratings sir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelley#45
Not just our future, i cant imagine anyone in the entire NHL who would want a 23 year old defensemen who sticks up for his teammates and is responsilbe in his own end
Let's see here...Hainsey is a +2, Foote's a +3, Hejda's a +7, Klesla's a +1. And all of those guys play better in the offensive zone than Mr. Tollefsen. Then again, LeClaire is just one point off of OKT's total for the season.
Not to mention that OKT's plus/minus is skewed because he plays such limited ice time and he isn't generally put into difficult situations.
OKT hasn't dropped the gloves much this year to "stick up for his teammates", but he's still amassed 2+ PIM/game in limited playing time. Nothing like putting your guys a man down for no good reason.
Responsible in his own end? Seriously, watch some tape. The guy panics against the board and makes foolish outlet passes. Check out his RTSS stats--his hitting isn't as impressive as you might think, Hejda makes as many hits a game and he's less of a defensive liability and better in the offensive zone.
I guess the guy you have a beef with is Kris Russell. Its laughable that someone who wants to hype OKT's age, doesn't seem to want to give Russell a break in his first season of play. Beyond which, a team that lacks offense from the blueline can ill afford to send down one of its few puck-moving defensemen.
OKT is a one trick pony and his trick isn't needed any more now that the Jackets have guys like Boll and eventually Legein who can do that trick and bring other elements to the game.
Up down, down up. I think the CBJ just want him picked up by someone. But I will admit our defensive player roster of late is strange. We have to many defensemen rotating around for stability imo... I hope Hitchcock gets a handle on his 6 man defensive core so we can move on.
Let's see here...Hainsey is a +2, Foote's a +3, Hejda's a +7, Klesla's a +1. And all of those guys play better in the offensive zone than Mr. Tollefsen. Then again, LeClaire is just one point off of OKT's total for the season.
And LeClaire is only 5 points behind that puck moving defensemen we have, whats your point ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius
Not to mention that OKT's plus/minus is skewed because he plays such limited ice time and he isn't generally put into difficult situations.
He's generally paired with our worst defensemen and he kills penalties, your right that doesnt seem like difficult situations
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius
OKT hasn't dropped the gloves much this year to "stick up for his teammates", but he's still amassed 2+ PIM/game in limited playing time. Nothing like putting your guys a man down for no good reason.
Take away his 5 majors and he has 33 pim in 37 games, Seems like someone is trying to skew stats with the 2+pim a game and putting us down a man for no good reason talk Also his 3 misconduct penalties were all offsetting too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius
Responsible in his own end? Seriously, watch some tape. The guy panics against the board and makes foolish outlet passes. Check out his RTSS stats--his hitting isn't as impressive as you might think, Hejda makes as many hits a game and he's less of a defensive liability and better in the offensive zone.
Well Well Well Am i looking at the same RTSS stats as you are, it seems to say only 7 giveaways in 37 games, How come our puck moving d-man has 11 in 50 , im no math major but by your judging of stats and the all mighty RTSS stats, I guess he makes less foolish passes then everyone except Foote, thanks for backing up my point with your stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius
I guess the guy you have a beef with is Kris Russell. Its laughable that someone who wants to hype OKT's age, doesn't seem to want to give Russell a break in his first season of play. Beyond which, a team that lacks offense from the blueline can ill afford to send down one of its few puck-moving defensemen.
I actualy dont have any serious problems with ANY of our defense, I know Russell is going to be a good one, but its just laughable how people endlessly bash OKT, and as you pointed out if we look deeper into stats such as the good ole RTSS stats, Most of the time theres nothing to back it up other then someone going " but watch the games my opinion is correct and your is not "
Well Well Well Am i looking at the same RTSS stats as you are, it seems to say only 7 giveaways in 37 games, How come our puck moving d-man has 11 in 50 , im no math major but by your judging of stats and the all mighty RTSS stats, I guess he makes less foolish passes then everyone except Foote, thanks for backing up my point with your stats
Puck moving d-men generally have more giveaways--in order to move the puck you have to put it at risk. Bouwmeester, Pitkanen, Kaberle, Zubov, Redden, Chara, Rafalski are all in the top 25 in giveaways by defensemen. The giveaway stat is one of the most mis-used in arguments as there is generally a positive correlation between playmaking and giveaways.
Quote:
I actualy dont have any serious problems with ANY of our defense, I know Russell is going to be a good one, but its just laughable how people endlessly bash OKT, and as you pointed out if we look deeper into stats such as the good ole RTSS stats, Most of the time theres nothing to back it up other then someone going " but watch the games my opinion is correct and your is not "
Right. Except for the fact that the only stat you seem to be able to come up with to show his "talent" is an inflated +/- stat. I mean, I presume you aren't arguing that he's actually a better asset for the team than Russell. And we've already firmly established that Hainsey, Klesla, Foote and Hejda are contributing more. So, the best thing to be said for the guy is that he's the best #6 defenseman we have at the moment. I'll never bash him again.
I'm surprised the Canucks don't pick up Duvie, Vancouver's entire top 6 defensemen are injured.
It wouldn't be wise for a team that is as deep as Vancouver on the blueline to invest $900k per season for two more years on Duvie Westcott when they have guys like Luc Bourdon, Mattias Ohlund, Kevin Bieksa, Alex Edler, and Lukas Krajicek fighting for ice time as it is. If he was a UFA after this year then you'd be more likely to find suitors. He wouldn't have made it through waivers the first time if not for contract length.
However, with his history of being at least a serviceable sixth he'll probably get snagged on re-entry considering the minimal commitment involved. At worst he's a 7th defenseman or powerplay specialist making under a million playing spot duty.
I would think that Carolina could be a destination for him with our severe lack of anything close to a puck mover from the blueline. However, it wouldn't shock me to see him clear either with as many years as he has on his contract. Columbus may be forced to eat this one. In the age of the pre-emptive strike of signing players before you know their full value we're not going to see a decrease in these type of moves either. It is the nature of the league now.
I really do like our defense though. And when were in the top 10 in goals allowed in the league, currently number 6, that speaks for itself. Duvie is decent also he just has that huge contract, cut it in 1/2 and that may be where his value is if hes healthy?
Columbus may be forced to eat this one. In the age of the pre-emptive strike of signing players before you know their full value we're not going to see a decrease in these type of moves either. It is the nature of the league now.
Excellent post, one everyone should read and comprehend. We need to sign Leclaire soon, at one time I would have thrown Methot in there but I'm not so sure anymore. I'm not bailing on Methot yet but a couple of below par games and several scratches has me wondering.
That said, Hedja and Russell have been my cup of tea this year. Those two will be around when we are really good. Good move Howie...
my god, why the hell did he get signed for so long and so much!??!
pure junk...Wherever you are DM, I shake my fist at you...
I checked the CBJ UFA/RFA the other day and was amazed at his contract as well. At the time though we where not the defensive team we are now. But Maclean did go over board with the length of his contract.
While Duvie's numbers seem a little high, so were our expectations of him two years ago. He was young, offensive minded, and tough. But I'm not going to get worked up about it. Every team is going to have contracts like this...that you wish you could take back.
He's generally paired with our worst defensemen and he kills penalties, your right that doesnt seem like difficult situations
Just from a neutral prospective OKT's +/- wouldn't reflect his competency (or lack thereof) on the PK. A goal scored against him on the PK wouldn't give him a minus-mark. So if you're you're talking about someone's playing ability in relation to his plus-minus rating, you essentually have to throw the PK out the window.
Also his 3 misconduct penalties were all offsetting too.
