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Would you do this trade?

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Old
01-29-2004, 06:19 PM
  #1
st_roland
 
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Would you do this trade?

Kolzig+3rd for Richards+2nd ?

People who are down on kolzig, dont respond. I know your response already.

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01-29-2004, 06:22 PM
  #2
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No, Esche has been playing well and looks like he'll be the starter. Kolzig comes at a big pri$e. I rather they get a veteran backup if Hackett is done. Plus, the Flyers have dealt away a lot of their picks and spects.

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01-29-2004, 06:26 PM
  #3
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I would. I'm sick of going into the playoffs with an unproven golatender. It's been our problem and downfall since the early 80's minus 87. Some playoff backup for Esche would be good experience, especially if we go far. He has virtually no experience and if the flyers bow out again it will ruin his confidence for a long time.

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01-29-2004, 06:30 PM
  #4
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either way, its a tough call. I'm an aves fan first, and also a big caps fan(I live in DC). We have the same situation with Aebischer...hes playing the lights out, but has zero playoff experience. A lot of avalanche fans just want to get some crappy backup like tugnutt for a late pick, but i'd be happier getting someone like burke. The problem is our prospect depth is pretty low after trade johanasson, vrbata and nederost all in the last year. Its so tough be an aves or a flyers fan, aint it=P

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01-29-2004, 06:31 PM
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Tough being an Avs fan? lol! They've recently won Cups. It's not difficult at all being an Avs fan.

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01-29-2004, 06:37 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Tough being an Avs fan? lol! They've recently won Cups. It's not difficult at all being an Avs fan.

Sarcasm, hence the =P, Its the easiest thing in the world to be an aves fan.

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01-29-2004, 06:43 PM
  #7
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No I wouldn't do it. I am fine with Esche and wouldn't give more then a draft pick for Kolzig who is in his mid 30s and makes 6.5 milion a year and has looked lost this year.

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01-29-2004, 07:03 PM
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I wouldn't give up Richards or Carter or even Gagne (who's picked up his play lately) unless the goalie coming back has "Brodeur" or "Luongo" in his name. That being said, I'd rather ride Esche and see how he does. He's played well when given the chance to start consistently, and the team plays well in front of him.
I'm sure we could get a goalie like Manny Fernandez for a reasonable price, maybe a mid-level prospect like Droz and a late round pick. He's an FA at the end of the year and more than half of his contract has been paid off for this season. He is a very capable #2, plays in the same kind of defensive system as Philly, and has proven to be a solid #1 if necessary.

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01-29-2004, 08:31 PM
  #9
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That proposal is eerily reminiscent of the last time we traded with the Caps. Young talent, second rounders...for a guy past his prime. And we definitely do NOT want history to repeat itself.

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01-29-2004, 08:39 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
Kolzig+3rd for Richards+2nd ?

People who are down on kolzig, dont respond. I know your response already.

No.
I don't see Kolzig as an upgrade over Esche.


Then factor in that Kolzig makes big $$$$$$.

Also I watched Richards play at the WJC, and he's going to be a real nice NHL player for a long time.

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01-29-2004, 08:53 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
No.
I don't see Kolzig as an upgrade over Esche.


Then factor in that Kolzig makes big $$$$$$.

Also I watched Richards play at the WJC, and he's going to be a real nice NHL player for a long time.

A little thing called playoff experience should also factor in. Fact is, Kolzig has been very good. And you can't guarantee that Richards will be a real nice NHL player for a long time. You can't even do that with Carter.

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01-29-2004, 08:53 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
No.
I don't see Kolzig as an upgrade over Esche.


Then factor in that Kolzig makes big $$$$$$.

Also I watched Richards play at the WJC, and he's going to be a real nice NHL player for a long time.
I agree. Esche can do the same job Kolzig would as good or better, and for much less money.

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01-29-2004, 08:54 PM
  #13
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let me chime in and say NO. Kolzig is not worth it IMO and like the others have said, Esche is doing great as our starter. we have to find out sooner or later if Esche is the man so it might as well be now.


Last edited by FlyersGuy69: 01-29-2004 at 10:47 PM.
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Old
01-29-2004, 08:55 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
A little thing called playoff experience should also factor in. Fact is, Kolzig has been very good. And you can't guarantee that Richards will be a real nice NHL player for a long time. You can't even do that with Carter.
He's had one good playoff run in his career, other than that he hasn't lit the world on fire. There is also no guarantee that he will be able to climb out of the funk he's been in once he's traded - with Esche we already know he's playing well.

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01-29-2004, 09:15 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
A little thing called playoff experience should also factor in. Fact is, Kolzig has been very good.

Fact is Kolzig has had one, let me repeat myself ONE good playoff year. He took his team to the Cup and got swept.

He's never won a playoff series in another year.

He's on his way to 3 of the last 5 years of missing the playoffs.

Also during the Cup run the Caps were quite fortunate.

They were the 4th seed entering the playoffs. The top 3 seeds: Devils, Flyers and Penguins were upset in round #1.

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Old
01-29-2004, 10:43 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
A little thing called playoff experience should also factor in. Fact is, Kolzig has been very good. And you can't guarantee that Richards will be a real nice NHL player for a long time. You can't even do that with Carter.
You obviously have not seen them play - Carter and Richards are very good prospects and Kolzig has only had one good year in the playoffs - he is not the difference.

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01-30-2004, 12:01 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex88
You obviously have not seen them play - Carter and Richards are very good prospects and Kolzig has only had one good year in the playoffs - he is not the difference.

Where in my post did I say they were anything but excellent prospects? I just said that you cannot guarantee that they will be sucessful NHLers.

As for Kolzig, he won the Vezina in 2000, backstopped the caps to the SC finals in 98', and has a career playoff GAA of 2.14. Its true he has only taken them past the first round once, but i've watched the playoffs every year, and this team is screwy in the playoffs. They usually build a 3-0; 3-1; or 3-2 series lead and then lose the killer instict. Not many of the losses during crunch time have been Olie's fault. Really, I can't see a reason to move Olie unless someone like richards is coming back, or maybe Seidenberg and a 2nd or 1st contingent on playoff success. Olie would be a great role model and tutor for Ouellet, they're both butterfly goalies.


I could definitely see Clarke moving one of his defenseman to washington to shore up the net, because the fact is that Esche has looked good for streches before and his hallmark is inconsistentcy(not uncommon for a younger goalie). The bottom line is, do you want another year of playoff disappointment? Who knows if Esche is another Cechmanek, wasn't Cechmanek awesome during the regular season too??

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01-30-2004, 12:05 AM
  #18
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This team really does not need a Brodeur or a Luongo, (although it sure would be nice :p ) all we need is a goaltender who does not lose the game for us (or take us out of the game ala Cechmanek.) Esche looks like he can be that guy. This team is too deep with good talent for them to lose early if Esche plays the way he has played this season. I'm willing to bet Esche won't lose it for us, if we do lose, it will just be the same old story of our forwards not showing up.

I like Kolzig, but not at the price of Richards. Kolzig is a top notch goalie when he's on, but is horrible when he's off. I might have been willing to take a chance on Kolzig if he was playing well, but he's not, so I really see no point to replace a goaltender who has played very well with a goaltender who has played terrible this season (granted, he's on a very bad team, but his play has been no better than the rest of the Caps.)

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01-30-2004, 12:15 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
I could definitely see Clarke moving one of his defenseman to washington to shore up the net, because the fact is that Esche has looked good for streches before and his hallmark is inconsistentcy(not uncommon for a younger goalie). The bottom line is, do you want another year of playoff disappointment? Who knows if Esche is another Cechmanek, wasn't Cechmanek awesome during the regular season too??
Esche has never been inconsistent because he's never been in the position to be inconsistent. This is the first year he's ever gotten a good amount of starts so it's more about being unproven than being inconsistent. Last year he was very good until his regular starts disappeared, then he wasn't very good, but that probably had more to do with not playing at all, than being inconsistent.

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01-30-2004, 12:28 AM
  #20
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The reason I made that statement is that Kolzig is over valued at this time.
He is obviously being shopped, has a big contract extending post CBA, wants out of a rebuid phase (see Caps), and has had a serious off year plus as said, limited winning in the playoffs. Track records for recent similair situations of somewhat older goalies with good regular seasons and overall decent numbers but few wins in the post season is not a top end prospect and high pick - see Chechmanek and his numbers are better than Ollies the last few years. I would not give that much up as the Caps really are not in the drivers seat in this one (as the Flyers were not either) - sorry you can keep him and his contract and see what happens.

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01-30-2004, 01:22 AM
  #21
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Ollie made his run in '98. That is 6 years ago. I dont think he's won a playoff series since. And this gives hin the advantage over Esche how?

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01-30-2004, 01:44 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex88
Track records for recent similair situations of somewhat older goalies with good regular seasons and overall decent numbers but few wins in the post season is not a top end prospect and high pick - see Chechmanek and his numbers are better than Ollies the last few years.
Refresh my memory, what did Phi get for cechmanek? And comparing the value of Cechmanek and Kolzig is a little bit ironic in my mind, since the ONLY reason PHI would get Kolzig is for the playoffs, the exact reason you got rid of Cechmanek.
Granted Cechmaneks numbers in the reg season are better than Olies, but we aren't talking about the regular season, we're talking about the playoffs. If you're talking about last post season, ask caps fans if they blame olie for getting bounced, then ask yourself and your fellow fans if you blame cechmanek for getting the flyers bounced.

Quote:

I would not give that much up as the Caps really are not in the drivers seat in this one (as the Flyers were not either) - sorry you can keep him and his contract and see what happens.


Yeah, we are in the drivers seat actually. Ask NYR fans and CAR fans if Olie is playing well. We have multiple teams interested in Olie, have dealt Jagr and will likely be dealing bondra. It will just be interesting to see what the return is if we deal him.



And flyers guy, regarding esches regular season play, i say again-Cechmanek.

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01-30-2004, 02:12 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
Refresh my memory, what did Phi get for cechmanek? And comparing the value of Cechmanek and Kolzig is a little bit ironic in my mind, since the ONLY reason PHI would get Kolzig is for the playoffs, the exact reason you got rid of Cechmanek.
Granted Cechmaneks numbers in the reg season are better than Olies, but we aren't talking about the regular season, we're talking about the playoffs. If you're talking about last post season, ask caps fans if they blame olie for getting bounced, then ask yourself and your fellow fans if you blame cechmanek for getting the flyers bounced.





Yeah, we are in the drivers seat actually. Ask NYR fans and CAR fans if Olie is playing well. We have multiple teams interested in Olie, have dealt Jagr and will likely be dealing bondra. It will just be interesting to see what the return is if we deal him.



And flyers guy, regarding esches regular season play, i say again-Cechmanek.
We got a second round pick for Chechmanek.
Ollie and Cechmanek stats playoffs since 00:

Ollie: Year Wins GAA SV
99-00 1 3.38 .845
00-01 2 2.24 .908
01-02 NA
02-03 2 2.07 .927



Cech: Year Wins GAA SV
00-01 2 3.11 .891
01-02 1 1.85 .936
02-03 6 2.14 .909

NYR do not have anything of value they would deeal for a 33yo goalie at this point and if you think Ollie is better than Weekes at this point in their career, you are crazy.
Points above are that Ollie has not been anything great in the playoffs and not a sure fire upgrade at this time. Please see previous post as to reasons he will not get the huge return he would have last year.


Last edited by Rex88: 01-30-2004 at 02:15 AM.
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Old
01-30-2004, 03:09 AM
  #24
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The Flyers do not need to acquire Kolzig.

The fact remains, Esche HAS played better, is younger and is MUCH cheaper. The is absolutelty no reason to go after Kolzig based on one playoff run a few years ago. That's ridiculous.

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