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Old
01-26-2004, 11:07 PM
  #1
Maximus
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Amazing how negative everyone is...

I dunno, I've been following hockey for 30+ years now having played the game as well as follwing it and it never ceases to amaze me the negativity that permeates through most Ranger fans bones. I've seen it all since 1970 when I started following the Rangers as a 9 year old.....It is once again at full bore as all the threads on the board other than a tiny few all say the same thing: "Rangers once again do the wrong thing"....."Fire Sather"....."We are cursed"...."Rangers won't make the playoffs".....yada yada yada.

I dunno, call me crazy but I happen to think we are THE best fans in the league.....we are as knowledgable as any fan base in the league as well and yet we might be the most jaded and negative fans in the leauge.....Its like an oxymoron......Even with the recent poor play of our team, there is still 32 games left....this puppy is far from over and I still believe we are going to make the playoffs and make a nice run once we get there and so I'm suprised so many folks here are thinking its over and we are done....Maybe I'm being a bit polyannish here but I firmly believe we are going to make a strong playoff run and though its great that we have a forum here to criticize and make suggestions for the team to improve, it would also be nice to support the club as well. I can guarantee, once the Rangers win 4 or 5 of their next 6 games, the bandwagon will be plentiful seeing that as we all know, we can be also the most fickle of fans....ya think?....

-Max

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01-26-2004, 11:38 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
I dunno, call me crazy but I happen to think we are THE best fans in the league.....we are as knowledgable as any fan base in the league as well and yet we might be the most jaded and negative fans in the leauge.....Its like an oxymoron......
No it's not at all an oxymoron. It's the very knowledge base about which you write that MAKES people jaded. They understand the flaws of this team and the philosophy of those who manage it.

Ignorance really is bliss, and if you're not ignorant about this team it's ridiculously hard NOT to be jaded.


Quote:
I can guarantee, once the Rangers win 4 or 5 of their next 6 games, the bandwagon will be plentiful
I wouldn't be quick to make that guarantee on this board. The Blueshirts have had a couple of nice runs this season, and while the hope goes up for some, most of us remember the great November run from last year. And the December run from the year before. And we all know how things ended up.

But IMO you're not being a pollyanna, simply very optimistic.

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01-26-2004, 11:41 PM
  #3
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Most fan react same way!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
I dunno, I've been following hockey for 30+ years now having played the game as well as follwing it and it never ceases to amaze me the negativity that permeates through most Ranger fans bones. I've seen it all since 1970 when I started following the Rangers as a 9 year old.....It is once again at full bore as all the threads on the board other than a tiny few all say the same thing: "Rangers once again do the wrong thing"....."Fire Sather"....."We are cursed"...."Rangers won't make the playoffs".....yada yada yada.

I dunno, call me crazy but I happen to think we are THE best fans in the league.....we are as knowledgable as any fan base in the league as well and yet we might be the most jaded and negative fans in the leauge.....Its like an oxymoron......Even with the recent poor play of our team, there is still 32 games left....this puppy is far from over and I still believe we are going to make the playoffs and make a nice run once we get there and so I'm suprised so many folks here are thinking its over and we are done....Maybe I'm being a bit polyannish here but I firmly believe we are going to make a strong playoff run and though its great that we have a forum here to criticize and make suggestions for the team to improve, it would also be nice to support the club as well. I can guarantee, once the Rangers win 4 or 5 of their next 6 games, the bandwagon will be plentiful seeing that as we all know, we can be also the most fickle of fans....ya think?....

-Max

thats how almost all the fans think, don't separate rangers from the league, every fan want to criticize their team, and bash as much as they can, what else could they do, you need to chjange fans mind to change their reaction whenever team wins or loses.

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01-26-2004, 11:59 PM
  #4
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first, let me say that i despise the rangers, and as a lifelong NYI fan have built up quite a bit of animosity for many of their fans. however, there is no question that there isnt a more knowladgeable, passionate, classy group of fans in America. when you go to a ranger game, it isnt just mindless booing or belligerence; but rather palpable unhappiness over the state of a team that is remarkably important in this city which is nothing CLOSE to a "hockey town". id hazard a guess that most NYR fans will admit theyre a fickle bunch, but for the past 6 years or so theyve HAD NO CHOICE. it is a bad predicament when you cant really rally around your own team. most ranger fans dont love this group of guys- they wont feel the passion for wins that they would with a team that they were proud to call their own. when the isles were an abomination (save the jokes about my use of past tense ) it was truly awful, but we were lovable losers. going to a 2/3 empty coliseum for 12 bucks and sitting in the good seats; watching the likes of dave archibald and mark lawrence and barry richter; it was funny long after it was depressing. the rangers situation is far worse from a fan perspective because there is nothing loveable or humorous about this team. its a group which is a league-wide joke and it shames a proud franchise. there really is no best-case-scenario for fans because no matter what measure of success this team achieves, not many will really feel much pride in it. but its very hard for most hardcore fans to root for failure so that, for example, sather can be fired. it sounds great in principle, but its damn hard to do when youre at a game, etc. youre torn between being a die-hard, shill out the $$, rain or shine supporter or just stepping back the level of passion and then feeling bad about it.

sorry for the long winded post, i just really cant find fault with most hate-filled, jaded ranger fans at this moment. all i know is itll be sweet as hell when you get out of it and if the day ever comes when both of the NY teams can be classy AND competitve, the rivalry will really be back where it belongs.

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01-27-2004, 12:05 AM
  #5
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As much as it pains me to say it (you being an Isles fan) you are absolutely right Dartmouth.

Here's to an end to the nightmare.

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01-27-2004, 01:43 AM
  #6
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7 years'll do that to you...

further, anywhere else and Sather's fired, as coach and GM.

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01-27-2004, 03:04 AM
  #7
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Newsflash - the season is not over

One awful week of hockey does not destroy a season. This team can look awesome at times (vs. Islanders, Montreal, Detroit) and other times they can look terrible, this should be clear to everyone by now. The Ottawa game should not be an indication of another lost season, rather it should be proof of this team's inconsistencies. Being under .500 again at this point is bad, but the whole situation is not as bad as everyone, including the media, is making it out to be.
There is such a thin line between winning and losing that the difference can be a hot goaltender, a good power play or a solid penalty kill. The point is that this team can turn things around very easily, Anaheim was in a similiar position this time last year and look what happened to that team.

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01-27-2004, 03:39 AM
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Newsflash: 6 years no playoffs. .500 hockey with a terrible GM and Coach running the team.

Sure, I have no reason to be negative.

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01-27-2004, 05:27 AM
  #9
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kinda funny how 6 years without the playoffs and one cup in 64 years will do that to a fan.......

still like idiots, game after game we go out and we watch them, we wonder why, but we always do.

honestly i'd be more scared if no one complained..... means no one cares, and then there really is a bigger problem.

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01-27-2004, 11:48 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartmouth 02
first, let me say that i despise the rangers, and as a lifelong NYI fan have built up quite a bit of animosity for many of their fans. however, there is no question that there isnt a more knowladgeable, passionate, classy group of fans in America. when you go to a ranger game, it isnt just mindless booing or belligerence; but rather palpable unhappiness over the state of a team that is remarkably important in this city which is nothing CLOSE to a "hockey town". id hazard a guess that most NYR fans will admit theyre a fickle bunch, but for the past 6 years or so theyve HAD NO CHOICE. it is a bad predicament when you cant really rally around your own team. most ranger fans dont love this group of guys- they wont feel the passion for wins that they would with a team that they were proud to call their own. when the isles were an abomination (save the jokes about my use of past tense ) it was truly awful, but we were lovable losers. going to a 2/3 empty coliseum for 12 bucks and sitting in the good seats; watching the likes of dave archibald and mark lawrence and barry richter; it was funny long after it was depressing. the rangers situation is far worse from a fan perspective because there is nothing loveable or humorous about this team. its a group which is a league-wide joke and it shames a proud franchise. there really is no best-case-scenario for fans because no matter what measure of success this team achieves, not many will really feel much pride in it. but its very hard for most hardcore fans to root for failure so that, for example, sather can be fired. it sounds great in principle, but its damn hard to do when youre at a game, etc. youre torn between being a die-hard, shill out the $$, rain or shine supporter or just stepping back the level of passion and then feeling bad about it.

sorry for the long winded post, i just really cant find fault with most hate-filled, jaded ranger fans at this moment. all i know is itll be sweet as hell when you get out of it and if the day ever comes when both of the NY teams can be classy AND competitve, the rivalry will really be back where it belongs.
that was a great post, very well put.

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01-27-2004, 01:23 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartmouth 02
first, let me say that i despise the rangers, and as a lifelong NYI fan have built up quite a bit of animosity for many of their fans. however, there is no question that there isnt a more knowladgeable, passionate, classy group of fans in America. when you go to a ranger game, it isnt just mindless booing or belligerence; but rather palpable unhappiness over the state of a team that is remarkably important in this city which is nothing CLOSE to a "hockey town". id hazard a guess that most NYR fans will admit theyre a fickle bunch, but for the past 6 years or so theyve HAD NO CHOICE. it is a bad predicament when you cant really rally around your own team. most ranger fans dont love this group of guys- they wont feel the passion for wins that they would with a team that they were proud to call their own. when the isles were an abomination (save the jokes about my use of past tense ) it was truly awful, but we were lovable losers. going to a 2/3 empty coliseum for 12 bucks and sitting in the good seats; watching the likes of dave archibald and mark lawrence and barry richter; it was funny long after it was depressing. the rangers situation is far worse from a fan perspective because there is nothing loveable or humorous about this team. its a group which is a league-wide joke and it shames a proud franchise. there really is no best-case-scenario for fans because no matter what measure of success this team achieves, not many will really feel much pride in it. but its very hard for most hardcore fans to root for failure so that, for example, sather can be fired. it sounds great in principle, but its damn hard to do when youre at a game, etc. youre torn between being a die-hard, shill out the $$, rain or shine supporter or just stepping back the level of passion and then feeling bad about it.

sorry for the long winded post, i just really cant find fault with most hate-filled, jaded ranger fans at this moment. all i know is itll be sweet as hell when you get out of it and if the day ever comes when both of the NY teams can be classy AND competitve, the rivalry will really be back where it belongs.

Perfect Mr.Dartmouth...a very well thought out poste my friend.....What you have conveyed here is pretty much exactly what is going on in all Ranger fans minds at the current moment whether it be the fan who likes to think "positivly" or "negativly"......bravo once again.

Ya know what I kind of find funny, alot of my Ranger brethern think that because some of us still remain loyal even with all the dissapointments of the past 6 years, we are "blind" and they somewhat put us down. Its a shame that this occurs but its the truth. What's ironic is that being "blind" is the absolute furthest thing from the truth. I, for example, see everything everyone else is seeing with our hockey club, just as much as the next guy. Like I've said, I've been a Ranger diehard for the past 34 years, since the days of Dave Balone,Bruce McGreggor,Gilles Villemure,Jerry Butler,Rod Seiling,Dale Rolfe....etc, and I've seen it all and yet I CHOOSE not to whine and complain ALL THE TIME unlike others. In a bizarre way, a Ranger fan who chooses NOT to whine and complain and chooses NOT to be negative at all times, is almost made to feel guilty about that and that really vexes me.

But don't mistake not whining and complaining all the time and NOT jumping off the bandwagon anytime the Rangers lose a hockey game or choosing not to be negative at every opportune moment, as being a "blind loyalist". It simply means, that we know that things will be getting better...it simply has too. We'v had a ton of misfortune the past few years, no question about it. Our luck, in particularly with regards to injuries(how good would PBure look on this club right now...eh?) which even the most negative of a Ranger fan would have to admit, has been terrible the past few years, and so rather than waste all this energy being negative, it take a heck of alot of less energy to remain positive and hope things will change. Yeah Sather hasn't delivered what he promised......its not like he's not trying....right?. Who exactly, just curious, is out there that is available, who would be better than what we've got....huh?

Everyone knows, our hockey club doesn't operate like the rest of the teams in the NHL....We are in the mecca of the world, we can't simply "start from scratch" and build from within like the Devils of the world...it simply can't be done. Not with the pressures that are unique to the Rangers compared to everyone else. Even the year we won the Cup, we won it the same way, we've been trying to do it, in order to get into the playoffs(buying aging superstars, spending lots of money...etc).

We caught lightning in the bottle that year and everything came together. It helped that we had the greatest goalie in the world at that time in Richter but we built our Stanley Cup winner the same exact way back than as Sather and Dolan are right now.......its just not working out and hasn't the past 6 years.....

So don't think for one moment I'm a "blind loyalist" cause I choose to remain positive.......I see what the problems are just as clear as day and just as much as my Ranger brothers who choose to complain about it.....And like Dartmouth our Islander goomba stated, yeah its hard to be proud of our hockey team the way things have gone, but things will eventually change for the better as our "luck" and "decision making" can't get any worse and I predict the good times are right around the corner......like the rest of this season when we make the playoffs and scare the crap out of any of those top seeds who get the misfortune of facing us....you'll see.

-Maxie

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Old
01-27-2004, 01:40 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
So don't think for one moment I'm a "blind loyalist" cause I choose to remain positive....
And don't think for one moment that honestly assesing this teams performance (and track record of previous seasons) means "whining and complaining"..

It's good you can remain positive, I wish that actually lead to more W's, but also letting them off the hook by allowing excuses like "injuries" (which every team goes through, and some more than the Rangers (see Isles and Habs) or "this club doesn't operate like the rest of the NHL" is not admitting where the true problems lie..

Positive or negative these days does not mean "more or less" of a fan.. And its possible to be critical of the team, and its modus operandi, but still be positive that it can be turned around..

I don't think it can be turned around this season, by going on past history and the knowledge that points are much harder to come by in this part of the season. The Rangers have yet to display an ability to play as a team for even a small stretch, so that usually means they'll be beat out for the last spot by the teams that do.. Like Atlanta, and the Isles (against everyone but the Rangers)..

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01-27-2004, 01:47 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
I dunno, call me crazy but I happen to think we are THE best fans in the league.....we are as knowledgable as any fan base in the league as well and yet we might be the most jaded and negative fans in the leauge.....Its like an oxymoron......Even with the recent poor play of our team, there is still 32 games left....this puppy is far from over and I still believe we are going to make the playoffs and make a nice run once we get there and so I'm suprised so many folks here are thinking its over and we are done....Maybe I'm being a bit polyannish here but I firmly believe we are going to make a strong playoff run and though its great that we have a forum here to criticize and make suggestions for the team to improve, it would also be nice to support the club as well. I can guarantee, once the Rangers win 4 or 5 of their next 6 games, the bandwagon will be plentiful seeing that as we all know, we can be also the most fickle of fans....ya think?....

-Max
This was written every year in January for the last 7 years, thats why you get all this negativity. Get it?

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Old
01-27-2004, 02:28 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
One awful week of hockey does not destroy a season. This team can look awesome at times (vs. Islanders, Montreal, Detroit) and other times they can look terrible, this should be clear to everyone by now. The Ottawa game should not be an indication of another lost season, rather it should be proof of this team's inconsistencies. Being under .500 again at this point is bad, but the whole situation is not as bad as everyone, including the media, is making it out to be.
There is such a thin line between winning and losing that the difference can be a hot goaltender, a good power play or a solid penalty kill. The point is that this team can turn things around very easily, Anaheim was in a similiar position this time last year and look what happened to that team.
I understand that some fans are going to root for the team to matter what and that's fine. I personally just can't do it anymore. One awful week of hockey? How about more like seven years. Seven years of the same kind of hockey that we keep getting subjected to? The only thing that changes is the names of the players.
You talk about hot goaltenders, good power plays, and solid penalty killers. Three things the Rangers don't have now and haven't had in a very long time. Combine that with the fact that most players on the team often play a listless, heartless game and you wind up with the kind of team that you see year in and year out. Until that changes, what do you do? keep banging your head against the wall?

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01-27-2004, 02:40 PM
  #15
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True 'day, Bluenote...

I'll be honest, I still root for the team to win. I still hope they win. I still hope for the playoffs. I still watch and go to games (although I've only been to two this season, and have had tickets to more). But that doesn't make me blind. I can give an honest assessment of where I believe the organization is. What I think of the performance of the players. Where I think they're going.

Max is right, there still remains 32 games and the team's in striking distance. It is, however, a sad commentary on the game when that is true. Consider this, Max, Florida can make the same claim as the Rangers, and Florida ain't that good. Heck, Carolina's not too far behind and they've been abysmal this season.

Sorry, but when you acquire superstars and spend $80+ million, you raise the expectation bar, and you expect a team that will compete on a nightly basis, not one that doesn't always compete and is still filled with obvious holes.

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01-27-2004, 04:00 PM
  #16
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Naaaaaah. It's definitely over. Ciao.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
I dunno, I've been following hockey for 30+ years now having played the game as well as follwing it and it never ceases to amaze me the negativity that permeates through most Ranger fans bones. I've seen it all since 1970 when I started following the Rangers as a 9 year old.....It is once again at full bore as all the threads on the board other than a tiny few all say the same thing: "Rangers once again do the wrong thing"....."Fire Sather"....."We are cursed"...."Rangers won't make the playoffs".....yada yada yada.

I dunno, call me crazy but I happen to think we are THE best fans in the league.....we are as knowledgable as any fan base in the league as well and yet we might be the most jaded and negative fans in the leauge.....Its like an oxymoron......Even with the recent poor play of our team, there is still 32 games left....this puppy is far from over and I still believe we are going to make the playoffs and make a nice run once we get there and so I'm suprised so many folks here are thinking its over and we are done....Maybe I'm being a bit polyannish here but I firmly believe we are going to make a strong playoff run and though its great that we have a forum here to criticize and make suggestions for the team to improve, it would also be nice to support the club as well. I can guarantee, once the Rangers win 4 or 5 of their next 6 games, the bandwagon will be plentiful seeing that as we all know, we can be also the most fickle of fans....ya think?....

-Max

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01-27-2004, 04:12 PM
  #17
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Very classy post, Dartsmouth. I really don't encounter enough Islander fans like you.

There are so many quotes that I want to respond to but it would take me all day.

I root for the Rangers to lose, and horribly, for the rest of the season because I believe that you have to lose the battle to win the war. Where I may be wrong is that it is quite possible that the Ranger philosophy will never change. Dolan was quoted as saying before the game last night that Sather is his GM and coach and will not be fired. He further implied that it is true whether or not we make the playoffs. I really thought that Dolan was getting close to seeing reality.

I was really disappointed to hear cheers last night. It was the fans opportunity to "educate" Dolan on their feelings. Well, I guess they did, and they did it with cheers. It seems that Dolan may have been right all along, "The fans want a winner NOW."

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01-27-2004, 04:14 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
Newsflash: 6 years no playoffs. .500 hockey with a terrible GM and Coach running the team.

Sure, I have no reason to be negative.
Newsflash: The failures of past seasons have nothing to do with this season. I'm just as pissed as you are about are past, but the fact remains that this is 2004 and last time I checked we are only 4 points out of a playoff spot.Be as negative as you want to be, it's a free country. I happened to look at things as half full rather than half empty.

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01-27-2004, 04:37 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
Newsflash: The failures of past seasons have nothing to do with this season. I'm just as pissed as you are about are past, but the fact remains that this is 2004 and last time I checked we are only 4 points out of a playoff spot.Be as negative as you want to be, it's a free country. I happened to look at things as half full rather than half empty.
high priced players invisible, taking nights off, not playing hard, poor coaching, poor management, no system, no youth, no one performing, no needs being filled, terrible defense, crappy special teams, all the hype yet we're still at around .500 and out of a playoff spot

It sure sounds like last 6 years to me.

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01-27-2004, 04:52 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
high priced players invisible, taking nights off, not playing hard, poor coaching, poor management, no system, no youth, no one performing, no needs being filled, terrible defense, crappy special teams, all the hype yet we're still at around .500 and out of a playoff spot

It sure sounds like last 6 years to me.

You forgot the most important part..

Goaltending..

The Isles and Thrashers have been getting more consistent goaltending, and that is why one of them will get the last seed..

My money's on Nurminnen..

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01-27-2004, 04:55 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
You forgot the most important part..

Goaltending..

The Isles and Thrashers have been getting more consistent goaltending, and that is why one of them will get the last seed..

My money's on Nurminnen..
I was going to say inconsistent goaltending but that wasn't the excuse last year, and in the late 90's.

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01-27-2004, 07:10 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
Newsflash: The failures of past seasons have nothing to do with this season.
But if the flaws of the past are repeated, the outcome remains the same even though it's a new year. You are exactly to whom Santayana was speaking when he talked about those who don't learn from the past. You think there's no connection between the past and present, when it is the events of the past that DEFINE the present.

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01-27-2004, 07:14 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
You forgot the most important part..

Goaltending..

The Isles and Thrashers have been getting more consistent goaltending, and that is why one of them will get the last seed..

My money's on Nurminnen..
Well, goaltending is nice from Atlanta, that and Heatley returning tommorrow night...

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01-27-2004, 07:54 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXNYR
Very classy post, Dartsmouth. I really don't encounter enough Islander fans like you.

There are so many quotes that I want to respond to but it would take me all day.

I root for the Rangers to lose, and horribly, for the rest of the season because I believe that you have to lose the battle to win the war. Where I may be wrong is that it is quite possible that the Ranger philosophy will never change. Dolan was quoted as saying before the game last night that Sather is his GM and coach and will not be fired. He further implied that it is true whether or not we make the playoffs. I really thought that Dolan was getting close to seeing reality.

I was really disappointed to hear cheers last night. It was the fans opportunity to "educate" Dolan on their feelings. Well, I guess they did, and they did it with cheers. It seems that Dolan may have been right all along, "The fans want a winner NOW."
I also enjoyed Dartmouths port and completely agree. I get grief all the time for being so negative about the team, but I can't help it. I can't get behind these guys. When they only show up half the time, how much can you really feel like a player is one of ours and wholeheartedly root for him? I can't get behind Vladimir Malakhov. I'm sure he's a decent person, but he's a lazy, insulting-to-the-fans player. So when he has a solid game (it's been about a calender year now) I can't get too worked up about it because he won't do it again tomorrow night.

As for the injury excuses a few people mentioned I don't buy it. I have no sympathy for this squad being short Bure. There is more than enough talent to make the playoffs. Yeah, we're short on D now. Suck it and look forward to deVries return in a month or so. What can you do? Complain about it? The Kings and Leafs are more than hanging in there with a lot worse injuries than us. And the years when Richter got hurt and we had to abuse Blackburn we complained about it instead of working extra hard to keep premium scoring chances against to a minimum.

As Dartmouth said it's a lot easier to write off crappy performances when a team just plain isn't very good (as in Isles 95-02) than when a team loaded with talent couldn't care enough to put in the work to get some results.

I also was extremely disappointed with the MSG crowd reaction to last nights win. Yay, we won. Woo hoo. See ya at the tees in early April Jaromir. As was said we blew a chance to communicate to Dolan that beating the Panthers (wow, we beat the Panthers at home!) is no big deal to us. How would raucous booing sound after a 5-2 win? I think that would send a message.

I've got a small part of my brain telling me to take the attitude of "well, we have JJ, he's gonna be here for a long time, so I might as well root for him to turn himself and us around" but my gun to the head prediction for the rest of this season goes like this: Jagr will bring it for a few more games, which may or may not translate into wins (allowing that offensive juggernaut the FLA Panthers 40 shots on our ice isn't comforting or anything new) then will settle into complacency as is encouraged here. Just have fun but don't kill yourself is probably painted on the dressing room doors. And the NYR will continue to be the worst run team in North America and miss the PO's for a seventh (7th) straight year. Who's being negative?

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Old
01-27-2004, 08:08 PM
  #25
TKLOOCH22
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Maximus...There is no such thing as Bandwagoning when it comes to fans on this Ranger board.

It is obvious that the so called "disloyal" fans that are so so negative, love the Rangers. There is no doubt about that. Also, there is nothing wrong with Ranger fans disliking management or players. We still love the Ranger organization, but for myself its hard to root for a team that competes every other night. It has especially sucked being let down so many times this season when the Rangers chose not to show up.

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