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"Saku Koivu must go" - Richard Labbé

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Old
02-07-2008, 10:37 AM
  #76
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If we win the cup anytime soon I would be really dissappointed if it is not Saku that gets to hoist it above his head here in Montreal.

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02-07-2008, 10:38 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by GoHabs20 View Post
someone is in love with saku.
Right.

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02-07-2008, 10:39 AM
  #78
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If we win the cup anytime soon I would be really dissappointed if it is not Saku that gets to hoist it above his head here in Montreal.
Ya, guess this makes it clearer why you defend him as much.

Gotta be able to let go sometimes buddy.

Times change, Koivu era is coming to an end!

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02-07-2008, 10:40 AM
  #79
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He played 2GAMES!!!!!!
And he was still the leader of that team and the go-to guy.
Things have changed, Plek-Kovy-Kost are the main guys, SK is making his presence felt.
Komi-Markov-Streit are also showing their wings.

Koivu doesn't have the big spotlight like before.

Not saying he wouldn't step it up in POs, he could very well do it.
And that's a good thing because as much as I love Koivu, he couldn't have carried this team alone, hell none of the players on this team could have in the last decade save Theodore in his MVP season.

I don't see why it's a bad thing that others players are playing well; that just means that when Koivu starts to find his game; we'll be in an even better position. He's having a bad season granted but he's still on pace for 60 points. Why trade him? Why the hell would you trade your captain, the heart and soul of this team for most of his tenure here when we're finally looking to make the transition from emerging team to contender.

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02-07-2008, 10:42 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, guess this makes it clearer why you defend him as much.

Gotta be able to let go sometimes buddy.

Times change, Koivu era is coming to an end!
I didn't realise he had an "era".

I think it would be dumb to trade Koivu unless 2 things are present...1-that things are past the point of no return either with management or his teammates and 2-that there is a good deal in place that makes the team better.

I don't think either is the case right now, I prefer mending fences than making trades for the sake of making trades. Clearly Gainey is not a guy that acts on a whim.

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02-07-2008, 10:42 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, guess this makes it clearer why you defend him as much.

Gotta be able to let go sometimes buddy.

Times change, Koivu era is coming to an end!
But it doesnt have to end..........that is one thing I dont like about the league and the players anymore............they arent loyal..............but as far as Saks is I think he is loyal to the team and the fans.....he aint going nowheres

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02-07-2008, 10:42 AM
  #82
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La Presse bashing on the Habs continue....

Sens fans. :

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02-07-2008, 10:44 AM
  #83
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And that's a good thing because as much as I love Koivu, he couldn't have carried this team alone, hell none of the players on this team could have in the last decade save Theodore in his MVP season.

I don't see why it's a bad thing that others players are playing well; that just means that when Koivu starts to find his game; we'll be in an even better position. He's having a bad season granted but he's still on pace for 60 points. Why trade him? Why the hell would you trade your captain, the heart and soul of this team for most of his tenure here when we're finally looking to make the transition from emerging team to contender.
Is he really the heart and soul of this team???

Its looking more like Kovalev's team this year to be honest.
Maybe the reason is we have so many russians on our team.

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02-07-2008, 10:46 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You obviously didn't read the first half of my post.
I did. I don't think you read the first half of the one you quoted either...

My many points to summarize-

Criticize koivu as a player, he deserves it, he's playing pretty badly.

His leadership on the ice can be criticized because of that bad penalty, and it has and I did at and after the game, but you also can't take it out of context and say his leadership in the locker room is affecting the team - especially when it's winning. The coach made the right decision since he didn't get burned (Carbo was taking a hell of a chance playing Smolinski & Lapierre for 2/3rd of the shifts up by 1 goal vs. ottawa, but it paid off). Now let's see if it pays off and Saku responds.

He won't waive his NTC now and it would be a mistake to trade him now because a team in 2nd place can afford to be patient. The team needs him as a 2nd C for now anyway. If it comes to it, based on his performance until the end of the season and playoffs, trade talks may make sense during the off season.

Labbe is too early - a lot can happen between now and when trading Saku would make sense, and it may no longer make sense by then. His article is more than 3 months early which is why I call it opportunistic. Plus he's a brutal writer I really despise so that doesn't help.

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02-07-2008, 10:46 AM
  #85
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I didn't realise he had an "era".

I think it would be dumb to trade Koivu unless 2 things are present...1-that things are past the point of no return either with management or his teammates and 2-that there is a good deal in place that makes the team better.

I don't think either is the case right now, I prefer mending fences than making trades for the sake of making trades. Clearly Gainey is not a guy that acts on a whim.
I think your 2conditions are pretty evident.
If everything is going well, there's no reason to trade him. BUT, Koivu admitted last year he didn't see eye-to-eye with Carbo, and im not too sure its going any better this year. Sure as hell isnt apparent though.

Nobody is saying to trade Koivu for a bag of pucks. It would have to make us much better obviously.

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02-07-2008, 10:46 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Is he really the heart and soul of this team???

Its looking more like Kovalev's team this year to be honest.
Maybe the reason is we have so many russians on our team.
So whos team was it last year when Kovalev sucked...............hmmmmmmmmmmm???

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02-07-2008, 10:51 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think your 2conditions are pretty evident.
If everything is going well, there's no reason to trade him. BUT, Koivu admitted last year he didn't see eye-to-eye with Carbo, and im not too sure its going any better this year. Sure as hell isnt apparent though.

Nobody is saying to trade Koivu for a bag of pucks. It would have to make us much better obviously.
Haha...I would love to see the source where you are getting this from.

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02-07-2008, 10:51 AM
  #88
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When were those players benched?..end of career??..before getting traded??..just curious.

Im not saying it has to have an affect long term, i said in a couple post prior, how he bounces from that should show how much leadership he has.
Lafleur and Shutt were in their prime, they were behind against an inferior team [all teams were inferior then] and Bowman thought they were taking shortcuts. Benching them had the desired effect and the rest of the team understood that no one was immune from the required effort.

Robinson probably had as many passes up the middle intercepted as Brisebois ever did, and paid the price a few times.

Late in Henri Richard's career, he became more of a role player. He hated it, but it had no effect on who he was or what his teammates thought of him. He was still Henri Richard.

Lafleur under Lemaire was a different case as it seemed that Savard and Lemiare had decided to rid he team with all ties to the 70's team and Lemaire was particularly harsh on his old linemate.

My arguement is that you make these things seem to cut and dry. Tuesday's events can just mean Tuesday, everything doesn't have to have far reaching effect.


This article aside, and Tuesday's game aside, on ice concerns are real. Remember the home and home losses against Buffalo that convinced us all that the team had to be blown up ? I started to notice real stamina issues with Koivu. Coming back into his zone on shifts, it seemed that he could barely stride. He is nearly always first guy off on his shift as if he knows he's got a problem. I don't know if his various off ice issues over the years have limited his conditionning, if his chemo has a long reaching effect. It's noticeable to me though that he has to keep his game centred around what he can do, pick his spots. Strength on his skates, always a strength, isn't right now.

That's why I'm hoping to see a guy like Hossa who is the real force on his line, with Koivu's playmaking being more effective.

I thought that he had more jump, games 1-20 this year than I'd seen in a few years, but it ebbed earlier than in previous years. The line depends too much on him at this stage.

I think that Carbo wants a simple game from him, play in the o zone, move your feet, and buzz around. When he doesn't get what he wants, he gets pissed off.

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02-07-2008, 10:51 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Is he really the heart and soul of this team???

Its looking more like Kovalev's team this year to be honest.
Maybe the reason is we have so many russians on our team.
Kovalev's having a good year, and his line is carrying the offensive load no doubt. But where was he last year? Who led the team down the stretch when all the chips were down and everyone who was suppose to step up was AWOL? It was Koivu.

He's having bad year. Nobody is happy about that but it hardly calls for him to be traded, especially when we're ****ing winning. Just like his brutal penalty in the last game, one act does not make a man.

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02-07-2008, 10:53 AM
  #90
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I did. I don't think you read the first half of the one you quoted either...

My many points to summarize-

Criticize koivu as a player, he deserves it, he's playing pretty badly.

His leadership on the ice can be criticized because of that bad penalty, and it has and I did at and after the game, but you also can't take it out of context and say his leadership in the locker room is affecting the team - especially when it's winning. The coach made the right decision since he didn't get burned (Carbo was taking a hell of a chance playing Smolinski & Lapierre for 2/3rd of the shifts up by 1 goal vs. ottawa, but it paid off). Now let's see if it pays off and Saku responds.

He won't waive his NTC now and it would be a mistake to trade him now because a team in 2nd place can afford to be patient. The team needs him as a 2nd C for now anyway. If it comes to it, based on his performance until the end of the season and playoffs, trade talks may make sense during the off season.

Labbe is too early - a lot can happen between now and when trading Saku would make sense, and it may no longer make sense by then. His article is more than 3 months early which is why I call it opportunistic. Plus he's a brutal writer I really despise so that doesn't help.
I never said his presence in the locker room affects the team. You're either confusing me with somebody else or misquoting me.

I said it doesn't look like Koivu's team, and that's what the ''C'' is all about no??..

Its not just that penalty, he's 2nd on our team in PIM, and as far as im concerned he didn't have a 5min major all year, so its all stupid lazy hooking/tripping/interference penalties.
Kosto has 89min, Koivu 73, Komi 70 and Bouillon 45. Can you find the error there??..W T F is Koivu doing there??..

Anyways, people still praise Koivu, thats why you're saying how can you trade your CAPTAIN just before POs. I agree, a team should not trade their captain before POs. The only problem is, i dont look at Koivu as the Captain of this team anymore.

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02-07-2008, 10:54 AM
  #91
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So whos team was it last year when Kovalev sucked...............hmmmmmmmmmmm???
Last year it was Koivu-Souray and Rivet...where are the 2 other guys?..hmmmmmmmmmmm???

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02-07-2008, 10:55 AM
  #92
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Last year it was Koivu-Souray and Rivet...where are the 2 other guys?..hmmmmmmmmmmm???
Kriss lets make a deal. Lets wait for the playoffs, then measure Koivu's contribution....then well talk? sounds good?

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02-07-2008, 10:56 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Lafleur and Shutt were in their prime, they were behind against an inferior team [all teams were inferior then] and Bowman thought they were taking shortcuts. Benching them had the desired effect and the rest of the team understood that no one was immune from the required effort.

Robinson probably had as many passes up the middle intercepted as Brisebois ever did, and paid the price a few times.

Late in Henri Richard's career, he became more of a role player. He hated it, but it had no effect on who he was or what his teammates thought of him. He was still Henri Richard.

Lafleur under Lemaire was a different case as it seemed that Savard and Lemiare had decided to rid he team with all ties to the 70's team and Lemaire was particularly harsh on his old linemate.

My arguement is that you make these things seem to cut and dry. Tuesday's events can just mean Tuesday, everything doesn't have to have far reaching effect.


This article aside, and Tuesday's game aside, on ice concerns are real. Remember the home and home losses against Buffalo that convinced us all that the team had to be blown up ? I started to notice real stamina issues with Koivu. Coming back into his zone on shifts, it seemed that he could barely stride. He is nearly always first guy off on his shift as if he knows he's got a problem. I don't know if his various off ice issues over the years have limited his conditionning, if his chemo has a long reaching effect. It's noticeable to me though that he has to keep his game centred around what he can do, pick his spots. Strength on his skates, always a strength, isn't right now.

That's why I'm hoping to see a guy like Hossa who is the real force on his line, with Koivu's playmaking being more effective.

I thought that he had more jump, games 1-20 this year than I'd seen in a few years, but it ebbed earlier than in previous years. The line depends too much on him at this stage.

I think that Carbo wants a simple game from him, play in the o zone, move your feet, and buzz around. When he doesn't get what he wants, he gets pissed off.
Hey McPhee you have some good memories.....................I remember the good old gams as well but unfortunately for me living in Ontario I only had the choice of listening to my habs on CBC French................beautiful memories though......Shutt to Lemaire to Lafleur et la but!

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02-07-2008, 11:00 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Lafleur and Shutt were in their prime, they were behind against an inferior team [all teams were inferior then] and Bowman thought they were taking shortcuts. Benching them had the desired effect and the rest of the team understood that no one was immune from the required effort.

Robinson probably had as many passes up the middle intercepted as Brisebois ever did, and paid the price a few times.

Late in Henri Richard's career, he became more of a role player. He hated it, but it had no effect on who he was or what his teammates thought of him. He was still Henri Richard.

Lafleur under Lemaire was a different case as it seemed that Savard and Lemiare had decided to rid he team with all ties to the 70's team and Lemaire was particularly harsh on his old linemate.

My arguement is that you make these things seem to cut and dry. Tuesday's events can just mean Tuesday, everything doesn't have to have far reaching effect.


This article aside, and Tuesday's game aside, on ice concerns are real. Remember the home and home losses against Buffalo that convinced us all that the team had to be blown up ? I started to notice real stamina issues with Koivu. Coming back into his zone on shifts, it seemed that he could barely stride. He is nearly always first guy off on his shift as if he knows he's got a problem. I don't know if his various off ice issues over the years have limited his conditionning, if his chemo has a long reaching effect. It's noticeable to me though that he has to keep his game centred around what he can do, pick his spots. Strength on his skates, always a strength, isn't right now.

That's why I'm hoping to see a guy like Hossa who is the real force on his line, with Koivu's playmaking being more effective.

I thought that he had more jump, games 1-20 this year than I'd seen in a few years, but it ebbed earlier than in previous years. The line depends too much on him at this stage.

I think that Carbo wants a simple game from him, play in the o zone, move your feet, and buzz around. When he doesn't get what he wants, he gets pissed off.
Yes, but the difference is Koivu has been bad pretty much all year, so i personally feel its not quite the same. Thats just my opinion though.
No you're right, its very possible its only one game. Koivu can step up and this will all be forgotten.

But you bring another point about his stamina, and that's another reason why i wouldnt be opposed to trading him.

I never said we HAVE to do it, i just said the guy isnt that far off in his article.

I mentioned it before, because of Koivu's stamina, id try moving him to the wing and go after a center.
If we do get Hossa, then its a different story.

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02-07-2008, 11:00 AM
  #95
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Hey McPhee you have some good memories.....................I remember the good old gams as well but unfortunately for me living in Ontario I only had the choice of listening to my habs on CBC French................beautiful memories though......Shutt to Lemaire to Lafleur et la but!

I grew up in Ontario as well and I was lucky enough to watch the Habs every Saturday night during that time period. I can't remember who broadcast the games, but I do remember watching on an old Philco tv. Channel 12 if my memory serves me correctly.

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02-07-2008, 11:03 AM
  #96
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There has been talk of trading Koivu at some point every year for the past few years. Every year he snaps out of his little funk and plays some damn good hockey.

So until he shows me that he can't bounce back, I'm 100% in his corner.

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02-07-2008, 11:03 AM
  #97
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Kovalev's having a good year, and his line is carrying the offensive load no doubt. But where was he last year? Who led the team down the stretch when all the chips were down and everyone who was suppose to step up was AWOL? It was Koivu.

He's having bad year. Nobody is happy about that but it hardly calls for him to be traded, especially when we're ****ing winning. Just like his brutal penalty in the last game, one act does not make a man.
Like i said before..its not one act.
Kosto--89PIM(fights)
Koivu--73PIM(all minors)
Komi--70PIM(fights)
Bouillon--45PIM(fights)

Im not saying we have to trade him, im saying i might not be as bad an idea as many of you make it seem to be.

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02-07-2008, 11:06 AM
  #98
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Yes, but the difference is Koivu has been bad pretty much all year, so i personally feel its not quite the same. Thats just my opinion though.
No you're right, its very possible its only one game. Koivu can step up and this will all be forgotten.

But you bring another point about his stamina, and that's another reason why i wouldnt be opposed to trading him.

I never said we HAVE to do it, i just said the guy isnt that far off in his article.

I mentioned it before, because of Koivu's stamina, id try moving him to the wing and go after a center.
If we do get Hossa, then its a different story.


That's where I think the detractor's are way off base. He produces at a pace of .72 ppg. I think his defensive play has been ok, better than last year when he seemed to be having problems taking in the outlet pass. Recent plus/minus, imo is very misleading.

I would think that getting 80 points at the 2/3 mark, from your 1 and 2 C's is fine. Getting 39 from your 2nd line guy, is very good. You don't see him doing things in the way you used to, but that's a far cry from being bad. The issue is his old NHL hang up of using his stick to buy time,gain a step. It's a reflex he has to curb. He still creates chances, as he always did.

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02-07-2008, 11:07 AM
  #99
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The real title is : "It is time that Koivu leaves" (I first wrote "It is time for Saku to leave"... but that's not right either) not "Koivu must go"...

Anyway, don't you guys have something better to do than comment on this article?

You don't like La Presse? Good, just don't read it... I can't remember the last time I opened a Journal de Montreal, so I don't get pissed if something stupid comes out of it (I just know there's always something in it to piss me off)...you should do the same...

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02-07-2008, 11:07 AM
  #100
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I grew up in Ontario as well and I was lucky enough to watch the Habs every Saturday night during that time period. I can't remember who broadcast the games, but I do remember watching on an old Philco tv. Channel 12 if my memory serves me correctly.

You are lucky...........Sat. night was the only night hockey was on and it was always Toronto. We had three channels on TV.......channel 10 was London....channel 11 was Hamilton and channel 40 was CBC........man times have changed...

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