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"Saku Koivu must go" - Richard Labbé

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Old
02-07-2008, 04:12 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I dont see whats the big deal and why some of you are still behind Koivu.

What he says is pretty true, and nobody can say Koivu seems happy to play here this year.
Whether or not he should move is a personal opinion, i think he should because a Captain doesn't get benched, simple as that. What kind of message are you sending when your ''C'' is being glued to the bench for the 3rd period, sent in to redeem himself on the most important faceoff but loses it. How he bounces back from that tonight will be very interesting.

If he stays, he's got to step it up.
You should inform yourself more than just by reading La Presse and listening to RDS. While you were hibernating for the past few years a number of other teams stripped the captaincy from their star players. Start with Dallas and Modano and New Jersey with Elias. Toronto would like to trade Sundin and New York may trade Jagr. To your dismay no doubt, Koivu remains as captain of the Habs and he will not be "glued to the bench" for tonight's game. You see, dear boy, the Habs are rather short of centres, so benching Koivu for more than a few minutes would probably have an immediate effect on the team. The Habs fell apart after Koivu was injured in the playoff series with Carolina and neither Ribeiro nor Plekanec nor Bonk could satisfactorily take his place. I don't see Koivu being traded, least of all for someone like Marleau, who is beginning to resemble overripe fruit. If Florida is intent on rebuilding, it would not be logical for them to replace Jokinen with Koivu. Nor do I see him being replaced by Grabovski or Chipchura. So sit tight.

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02-07-2008, 04:16 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
as i said , i was reffering to the article of Tremblay . HE said that Koivu was frustrated in this article , because he was benched . ( he left the Bell Center before the journalists arrive by the way ) .
Interesting, because they played an interview of him on 990 this morning talking about the game on Tuesday and he didn't sound upset or frustrated at all...And they had another that was right after the Ottawa game, so he clearly didn't leave the Bell Centre before the reporters came.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I dont know what's hard to understand.

Should Koivu play more than Plekanec?..
His new role is the one of a ''second line'' center, even if line numbering is just a way of speaking.
He was always the go-to guy in Mtl, the man for all situations. His 5on5 line was the best one, he got the most PP time and played on PK too. Now it's more balanced, his line is going nowhere, he gets less 5on5 time if im not mistaken, and isnt used as much as he was on PK.
Maybe its a new role or just consequences of his average season, i dont know.

Carbo made him play less than 12min last game, even though that's partly due to the 3rd period benching.
Don't you think Koivu would be more affective playing roughly 14-15min a game?..

What's important is how he'll bounce back after getting benched last game in 3rd tonight and down the final stretch of the season.
Again, his icetime and everything is CARBO'S decision, not his. He plays as many minutes as Carbo tells him to. His on ice role is defined by Carbo. I don't understand where you're getting at here. Koivu doesn't force Carbonneau to put him on the ice all the time.

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02-07-2008, 04:17 PM
  #203
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If I realy hate what someone's written, the last thing I want to do is publicize his work.
...and if I like what he/she wrote, I want to quote it.

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02-07-2008, 04:18 PM
  #204
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I simply can't believe this.

FOUR articles in La Presse today talking, in some way shape or form, about dealing Koivu.

Is this for real? Aren't we 1 point behind the conference lead? Aren't we having our best season in 15 years? And some idiot journalists decide NOW is the time to run our captain and 2nd line center out of town because he got a little ''slap on the hands'' from the coach after a bad penalty?

What a fiasco. This is seriously embarassing as not only a Habs fan but as a proud resident of this area. And people wonder why most UFA's don't want to sign here?
A lot exagerated .

Tremblay talks about Koivu playing a different role , not about trading him . Brunet only has a part of his chronique about Koivu . He just suggests to Gainey to listen to the other gms if ever they propose something like a Jokinen or a marleau for Koivu +x . It also says that Koivu has a lot to give to the Haabs , so that he wouldn't like Koivu to be traded just to be traded .

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02-07-2008, 04:20 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Corey View Post
You should inform yourself more than just by reading La Presse and listening to RDS. While you were hibernating for the past few years a number of other teams stripped the captaincy from their star players. Start with Dallas and Modano and New Jersey with Elias. Toronto would like to trade Sundin and New York may trade Jagr. To your dismay no doubt, Koivu remains as captain of the Habs and he will not be "glued to the bench" for tonight's game. You see, dear boy, the Habs are rather short of centres, so benching Koivu for more than a few minutes would probably have an immediate effect on the team. The Habs fell apart after Koivu was injured in the playoff series with Carolina and neither Ribeiro nor Plekanec nor Bonk could satisfactorily take his place. I don't see Koivu being traded, least of all for someone like Marleau, who is beginning to resemble overripe fruit. If Florida is intent on rebuilding, it would not be logical for them to replace Jokinen with Koivu. Nor do I see him being replaced by Grabovski or Chipchura. So sit tight.
Yes, that is exactly what i said. Koivu will not play tonight and will be glued for the rest of the season until he gets traded for Jokinen

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02-07-2008, 04:21 PM
  #206
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Personnaly, I have mixed feelings about trading Koivu.

On one hand, I do thing it's better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late.

On the other hand, if someone on Habs' lineup can rebound in playoffs to the point of having a Conn Smythe-type of sequence, it's Koivu (and Higgins, for that matter).

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02-07-2008, 04:23 PM
  #207
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Any hardcore hockey history fan can tell me when did any team traded their captain while being 1 point behind the conference leader?

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02-07-2008, 04:24 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post

Again, his icetime and everything is CARBO'S decision, not his. He plays as many minutes as Carbo tells him to. His on ice role is defined by Carbo. I don't understand where you're getting at here. Koivu doesn't force Carbonneau to put him on the ice all the time.
When did i say it was his decision?..

I asked can he accept it?, in the sense of, Will he be happy or not?..will he try to perform better or will he keep playing like he has? Will he turn it into a Koivu vs Carbo thing like it was for Kovalev last year.

Never once said Koivu is dictating Carbo what to do.. dont know where you got that from..

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02-07-2008, 04:28 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
A lot exagerated .

Tremblay talks about Koivu playing a different role , not about trading him . Brunet only has a part of his chronique about Koivu . He just suggests to Gainey to listen to the other gms if ever they propose something like a Jokinen or a marleau for Koivu +x . It also says that Koivu has a lot to give to the Haabs , so that he wouldn't like Koivu to be traded just to be traded .
Still,the point is that even thinking of dealing Koivu shouldn't even be justified.We're at 1 point away to get as high as 1st overall in the East and this team is a legitimate playoff contender.He's our captain,still a very solid contributing and valuable and if he's gone,there is an important hole left at the centre position.And I can't see any upgrade or potent replacement available.Jokinen for Koivu would be not logical because Florida is looking to rebuild.Toronto the same.The situation isn't perfect,but we can find a way to solve it.Trading Koivu would diminish our chances at the postseason big time and the Habs would be weakening.



For some people here,Koivu is more than a undesirable asset so we have to dump him quickly.His skills,talent overall and efficiency may have been declining due to physical abuse taken and several health issues,but he's certainly not deterioriating
and going downhill horribly.He's still very valuable to us.

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Old
02-07-2008, 04:30 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
When did i say it was his decision?..

I asked can he accept it?, in the sense of, Will he be happy or not?..will he try to perform better or will he keep playing like he has? Will he turn it into a Koivu vs Carbo thing like it was for Kovalev last year.

Never once said Koivu is dictating Carbo what to do.. dont know where you got that from..
Because you're making it sound like it's his fault that he's still playing 20 mins a night.

Again, this entire question of "will he accept it" is just BULL *****. Completely unfounded, unfair, unreasonable and untrue. Just more BS speculation based on nothing.

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02-07-2008, 05:01 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Cool Pictures View Post
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20...0/CPACTUALITES

Labbé is the biggest journaleux in Mtl. That article is a humongous piece of crap.
we got the point like 3 months ago. Can they shut up already?

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02-07-2008, 05:02 PM
  #212
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This city is the soap opera.


The last few years people have been screaming to get rid of Koivu because he never led this team anywhere.

Now that the team is going somewhere, the same people are screaming to get of Koivu because he's unhappy. Who says he's unhappy. They do.

Why don't these people own up and come clean. they simply don't want Koivu here. Not if he leads the league in scoring and not if he leads the team to the Cup for the next five years.

If that happens they'll want him gone because he wears argyle socks or pasley ties.

Last year was Koivu's best year. The year before he led the team to the playoffs and if it wasn't for his eye injury the Habs would've have gone further. Now, all of a sudden Koivu is worn out and too old?

Teamed with two linemates (Ryder & Higgins)that have had horrible/disappointing seasons, Koivu is still producing. I'd like to know how much Plekanec would produce if Kovalev and Kostitsyn were in terrible slumps. Koivu has played with Dandenault, Streit and Kostpoulos for crying out loud. He's had to baby sit Latendresse.

If I was Koivu I'd ask for a trade and wipe my feet on the way to wherever. there are alot of people in this city that don't deserve to have players of Koivu's ilk playing here. That's becoming quite obvious.

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02-07-2008, 05:20 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Because you're making it sound like it's his fault that he's still playing 20 mins a night.

Again, this entire question of "will he accept it" is just BULL *****. Completely unfounded, unfair, unreasonable and untrue. Just more BS speculation based on nothing.
It got a little bit more serious when he got benched last game.
What's untrue?..that Plek's line is playing better?..that we dont have a solid 2nd liner?.that Koivu is having a disappointing season??

I guess we'll see from now on till the end of season how he plays

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02-07-2008, 05:56 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
McPhee , i was reffering to the article of Rejean Tremblay Yes , i agree with you about a normal reaction from Koivu , and Tremblay also talks in the article that it was a right reaction from the captain .

But farther in his article ke speaks about it in a larger way ;

" Saku Koivu est très identifié au Canadien. Il fait partie du tissu de l’équipe. Même s’il doit trouver très pénible de voir ses responsabilités être diminuées par le coach, Saku Koivu doit quand même trouver la force d’appuyer Carbonneau.

Il peut rendre les plus grands services à son équipe s’il arrive à sourire et à encourager ses coéquipiers. Même si son temps de glace était diminué à une douzaine de minutes.

Peut-être que le temps a rattrapé Saku Koivu. Si c’est le cas, il lui reste plein de choses à faire et à dire pour aider l’équipe. Le pire, ce serait un capitaine malheureux qui passerait son temps à babouner dans son coin.

once again i will let someone better in english traduces the text , but in this part of the text , he doesn't talk about his reaction last game , but his attitude in the future .

" Koivu doesn't look happy " is something i read many time this season .
I understand what he's saying, but keep in mind, it's an observation. Most of what I've posted here is personal speculation. I like to try and figure out what's going on, how players react, but I don't pretend to know. I believe the guy's frustrated in part by his play at times, but I'd be surprised if he's hurting the team off the ice. He may feel kind of left out, but to go farther than that....

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02-07-2008, 06:04 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It got a little bit more serious when he got benched last game.
What's untrue?..that Plek's line is playing better?..that we dont have a solid 2nd liner?.that Koivu is having a disappointing season??

I guess we'll see from now on till the end of season how he plays
What is untrue is the ridiculous notion that Koivu "can't accept" his new role and is sulking in the corner.

This isn't a fact. It's pure speculation. Pure, baseless, ridiculous, idiotic, hate-founded speculation.

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02-07-2008, 06:14 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It got a little bit more serious when he got benched last game.
What's untrue?..that Plek's line is playing better?..that we dont have a solid 2nd liner?.that Koivu is having a disappointing season??

I guess we'll see from now on till the end of season how he plays
I really don't see any difference with Koivu being benched last game, to when he was benched last year. Both times he wasn't playing up to par and deserved to be benched. It didn't seem to hurt Koivu the last time it happened, and I pretty much expect the same this year.

Now to answer the part that I bolded.

True Pleks line is better, it's not to hard to figure out. But putting Koivu's line up against Pleks line is extremely unfair and here's why.

1. For the 1st 20 or so games, Koivu's line was the one matched up against the other teams top checkers. Either that or Carbo matched them up against the other teams top scoring line. Leaving Pleks line to play against inferior competition. Sure that has changed now, but that had to wear on Koivu early in the season.

2. Pleks has had the oportunity to play with the same two line mates for the majority of the season, while Koivu has played with almost every other forward on the team.

3. Who are the 2 best wingers on our team? Hmmm...if you guessed Kovalev and A.Kostitsyn, you get an A. Koivu has rarely had a chance to play with either one of them, nevermind both at the same time.

Now I'm not trying to take anything away from what A.Kost/Pleks/Kovy have done this year. I'm also not trying to argue that they aren't currently our #1 line, because that would be an out right lie.

I just wish when people are going to be critical of Koivu, they look at the big picture. Not at the stats only.

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02-07-2008, 06:46 PM
  #217
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At this point it clearly has become a witchhunt and an anti-Koivu campain to get him out of Montreal by the media. They've always questioned him but now it's clear they want his head and every media in Montreal are gunning for him. I hate crap with an agenda like this.

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02-07-2008, 10:43 PM
  #218
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Please explain to me why it's impossible for Koivu to win a cup in Montreal.

And he never said this team will not be in contention. He said that the team isn't the best team on paper and they need to take it one step at a time instead of considering themselves contenders. The papers twisted his words to make a story...He cleared it up afterwards.
How is Koivu gonna clear up his inability to do anything productive after tonights display, huh? If he keeps up like this his statement from this summer about not being in contention for the Cup will be true and he will carry a large part of the blame.

Let's all start to be a bit realistic about Koivu's capacity rather than pursuing these idealistic fantasies of Koivu leading us to the Cup. All the idealists should stop bashing the realists.

Realists 1, Idealists 0

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02-07-2008, 10:49 PM
  #219
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Let's look at the logic of this column. Hachet job disguising itself as a sympathetic piece. The hypocrisy of this writer disgusts me.


[COLOR="Blue"]Saku Koivu n'avait pas l'air d'un gars heureux, hier midi. La veille, il avait été laissé sur le banc par son coach. Là, il devait faire face au cirque médiatique, le temps de dire qu'il n'en veut à personne, qu'il faut penser au futur et que l'important, c'est que le Canadien ait gagné mardi soir.

Maybe, just, maybe Koivu is upset with his play.


Bref, Koivu a été un bon soldat. C'est admirable. Mais il serait temps de se rendre à l'évidence: lui et le Canadien, ça ne peut plus durer.


How did he jump to this conclusion? Last year was Koivu's best year. The year before the team fell apart in the playoffs when he went down with an injury.

Il y a des divorces qui sont bons pour les deux parties. En voici un. À Montréal, Koivu sera toujours la cible de critiques. C'est inévitable. On a trop rapidement vu en lui un gars de premier trio, un meneur. On a cru naïvement qu'il était un joueur de 100 points, capable de transporter une équipe à lui seul Bref, avec lui, les attentes ont toujours été trop élevées.

And this is somehow Koivu's fault?

On réalise aujourd'hui que Saku Koivu n'a jamais été le joueur qu'on attendait. Et maintenant, avec le poids des années, avec les séquelles de cette terrible maladie qui l'a frappé, le capitaine a du mal à suivre le rythme en deuxième moitié de saison. On l'a très bien vu au cours des dernières années: à la pause du match des Étoiles, Saku nous donne trop souvent l'impression d'un homme à bout de souffle.

Really? Again I repeat last year was his best year but this writer claims that over the last few years Koivu couldn't keep up in the second half of the season.

Le capitaine est un bon joueur de deuxième trio. Rien de plus, rien de moins. Évidemment, le Canadien a certes contribué au problème en payant un peu trop cher pour lui - il touche un salaire de 4,7 millions cette saison -, mais ça, c'est un autre débat.


Until a couple of months ago he was a first line centre. I guess Dandenault and Smokes are worth their 2 million each but I don't want to discuss that - it's another debate. (I just want to bring it up, make a snide remark and move on just like Mr. Labbe.)

Pour le Canadien, la situation est tout aussi difficile. Koivu n'est pas un joueur facile à diriger (ses sautes d'humeur sont bien connues), et en plus, il a l'habitude de prendre beaucoup de place dans un vestiaire. Trop, diront certains. Hier, Guy Carbonneau a rappelé que son capitaine n'était qu'un joueur parmi les 20 autres. Manifestement, ce n'est pas le grand amour entre ces deux-là.

What frigging proof does this back stabbing a-hole have? It's a character assassination attack and then he moves on. No proof. Just insinuations. And the last time I heard the expression "de prendre beaucoup de place" it was uttered by a xenophobic member of the PQ referring to the Jews in this province.

Il fut un temps où le Canadien était l'équipe de Koivu. Plus maintenant. Ses alliés sont partis, et d'autres leaders se sont depuis levés en attaque. Pendant ce temps, le Finlandais boude un peu seul dans son coin, tout en essayant de projeter l'image du gars serein qui refuse de s'en faire.

Again how does he know this is no longer Koivu's team. Has he given any proof.


«Il y a des choses comme ça qui peuvent survenir dans une saison, a-t-il expliqué hier au Centre Bell. Des joueurs qui sont laissés sur le banc, on voit ça dans toutes les équipes. Quand ça arrive, il faut tourner la page et passer à autre chose.»

I would like to remind this writer that Kovalev was benched last year in the dying minutes of an important game. Kovalev is today one of the leaders of this team.

Tourner la page? Voilà qui serait une très bonne idée. Pour Koivu, ça voudrait dire ceci: lever sa clause de non-échange, et permettre à Bob Gainey de l'envoyer ailleurs, dans une ville où les attentes seraient moins élevées. Dans un tel contexte, Koivu pourrait fort bien relancer sa carrière, et trouver ce second souffle qui dort en lui. Après tout, le Finlandais a toujours bonne réputation dans les cercles de la LNH.

It's a good idea because Mr Labee thinks so. I think it would be a good idea if Mr Labbe goes to play in traffic on the Met. I wonder if he'll do it. Re-launch his career. He had a career high season only last year. Does this man follow hockey at all? And I'd like to ask him why does Koivu have a good reputation in the NHL?

Le Canadien et lui en sont là: au point de non-retour. C'est triste, mais Saku Koivu doit partir. Ce serait le meilleur scénario. Pour le Canadien, mais aussi pour lui.

He comes to this conclusion without giving any proof or reason why this should happen. But the subtext implies this man doesn't like Koivu, never did and doesn't want him arounf now that the team is going strong. He couldn't be more obvious.

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02-07-2008, 10:55 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
How is Koivu gonna clear up his inability to do anything productive after tonights display, huh? If he keeps up like this his statement from this summer about not being in contention for the Cup will be true and he will carry a large part of the blame.

Let's all start to be a bit realistic about Koivu's capacity rather than pursuing these idealistic fantasies of Koivu leading us to the Cup. All the idealists should stop bashing the realists.

Realists 1, Idealists 0
And what did you have to say about Kovalev last year, mr realist?

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02-07-2008, 11:09 PM
  #221
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Realists disgust me. They always think their version of the world is real.

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