If Florida is tired of losing, then why do they trade their best player and captain?
Beacuse they don't have much of any choice. He wants out. They can not honor his request, but it won't be a good siutation .
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That package isn't close to landing Jokinen imo.
Florida isn't interested in pick or prosepcts, and it's not like Jokinen is going to land Malkin. I have hard to seeing packages from other teams that will be much better
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Not to mention, what does this do for us signing our RFAs? Carter is a RFA this offseason. We would then have Carter, Weber, and Erat in terms of our big RFAs.
It does nothing to it. We lose a big RFA (Suter) and gain another one.
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These are NHL08 trades this late in the season. With this team still in the playoff hunt, you will not see as big of a shakeup as you have proposed above. We can argue about how good this team actually is, but it would be stupid to make huge sweeping changes. Teams in the playoff hunt rarely make huge moves trading key players off their team to get other players in huge swaps.
I am not suggesting it will happen, but it's not as NHL08 as you say. Jokinen will likely be traded. Carter has a good chance to be.
But, Poile has never know how to pull off any trade that's not a UFA rental. So ya, I doubt very seriously stand-Pat Poile will do anything.
Beacuse they don't have much of any choice. He wants out. They can not honor his request, but it won't be a good siutation .
If you believe all the press, he has been wanting out for the past few years. His name comes up every season near the trading deadline. That doesn't mean that he will never be traded, but its the same rumors from the Canadian media every year.
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Florida isn't interested in pick or prosepcts, and it's not like Jokinen is going to land Malkin. I have hard to seeing packages from other teams that will be much better
Teams this late in the season are not going to give up big pieces of their team to get back Jokinen. And since you think that they are not interested in picks or prospects, teams would have to give up key players to get Jokinen. At this stage of the year, unless a team is out of it, most teams do not trade away key players.
I could see Jokinen traded if Florida was outside the bubble, but they would like only get back prospects and picks for him if they trade him close to the deadline.
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It does nothing to it. We lose a big RFA (Suter) and gain another one.
I would think the whole point in trading someone like Suter is for salary purposes, so we can focus on signing Erat and Weber. I wouldn't think Poile would be looking for another RFA to sign this offseason.
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I am not suggesting it will happen, but it's not as NHL08 as you say. Jokinen will likely be traded. Carter has a good chance to be.
Big sweeping changes at the end of the year is NHL08. Why would a team looking the playoffs look to make huge changes. Losing two starting defensemen and a solid two-way player who has been with the franchise almost forever is a big change for our club, even if we bring in Jokinen and Carter. That would be adding two centers, and we still haven't addressed the wings.
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But, Poile has never know how to pull off any trade that's not a UFA rental. So ya, I doubt very seriously stand-Pat Poile will do anything.
Because often times, teams are more willing to trade UFA when they are out of the playoff hunt. Signed players and RFA are also traded, but not as frequently (usually at the beginning of the year or for players who need a change in scenery, aka more of a lateral move).
At this stage of the year, teams are unlikely to give up huge parts of their teams.
I'm not saying the team should not make a move or look to give up a bunch of assets for an UFA, but I don't think the team is going to make huge moves like the ones you put above. I could see us dealing from our strength (young defensemen) to acquire a winger, but neither of your moves above address that.
We've made significant deals every year since 03-04 on or around the deadline. We've signed significant free-agents every year excepting this past summer...in which we still managed to find a way to sign Bonk and DeVries.
He's actually pretty bold in the regard of trades\signings.
He's actually pretty bold in the regard of trades\signings.
NMK, I respectfully, disagree.
Of the free agent signings we made, how many of them were initiated by the players themselves? Kariya, Arnott, Dumont.....all called us.
Of the trades we made, only the Forsberg trade was bold. The Witt trade was a poor deal, and the acquistion of Bombadir/Zholtok in 03-04 was a depth move at best.
I will agree that of late, Poile has been much more active in the trade market. However, it should be pointed out the REASON he has been active is because we have had an enormously high glut of players at certain positions each year. This has been due to his unwillingness to move prospects or positional players as logjams began to form. A few years ago it was at the Wing position, and realistically, Poile's hand was forced into moving 2-3 wingers (see Walker and Hall trades.) We still have the enormous glut at defense, and we have yet to make any moves. It is fine to use the BPA draft strategy, but at some point you have to deal certain players to round out the roster. Having 10-12 young NHL ready defenseman is great.......but you can only field 6 of them in a starting lineup. Meanwhile, we have since July known Sullivan was out for an extended time and that we lacked a winger......and yet we have made no moves to help out our offense.
Poile is a good GM, but I think he has definite flaws to his handling of teams. He is not a pro-active GM. He is more content to sit back and see what falls in his lap. Sometimes this is good. Sometimes its not. Right now, with our huge amount of defensive prospect, we really need some creativity. It will be interesting to see what Poile does at the deadline. He can definitely improve this team for the short-term and for the future. Trading for an UFA will be a cop-out IMO. Its not going to push us over the edge into a contender (unless it is Marian Hossa). Lets see if Poile can actually deal a young player for another young player.....I'm holding out hope that he can get this done. Bring in a young winger Poile....We need it badly!
The Dumont signing was the only one I think was truly a one-sided initiation.
I have a hard time believing..actually, outright do NOT believe, that Poile had no hand in courting Arnott and Kariya. It may have been mutual interest on the part of all parties, but I think he knew who he wanted and made the deal to make it happen.
Remember that St Louis made a sizable offer to Arnott as well, one he was rumored to be taking...before Poile upped the ante and got it done.
Arnott has publicly said that we didn't go to him; his agent had to go to us.
Agree with your post Enoch. You said it right-- Poile has no creativity when it comes to trading and asset management.
I honestly think Forsberg was all Leipold... One last shot before selling the team. But acquring UFA rentals takes no creativity. Best offer wins, and Poile gave up a huge price for both Witt and Forsberg.
Of the top of my head, Poile has only traded 2 roster players in his 11 years as GM (where a UFA rental wasn't involved). Scott Walker and Mike Dunham. The Dunham thing was the only semi-creative trade he has ever pulled off as GM of the Predators (and it turned out pretty good).
The Jokinen situation reminds me of Thornton a few years ago.
I would love to see the Preds go after Antoinne Vermette, who is rumored to be on the block, so long as it could be a trade and sign deal. Young winger, upside there on a loaded roster. He is an upgrade over a Smithson for instance.
Of the free agent signings we made, how many of them were initiated by the players themselves? Kariya, Arnott, Dumont.....all called us.
Of the trades we made, only the Forsberg trade was bold. The Witt trade was a poor deal, and the acquistion of Bombadir/Zholtok in 03-04 was a depth move at best.
I will agree that of late, Poile has been much more active in the trade market. However, it should be pointed out the REASON he has been active is because we have had an enormously high glut of players at certain positions each year. This has been due to his unwillingness to move prospects or positional players as logjams began to form. A few years ago it was at the Wing position, and realistically, Poile's hand was forced into moving 2-3 wingers (see Walker and Hall trades.) We still have the enormous glut at defense, and we have yet to make any moves. It is fine to use the BPA draft strategy, but at some point you have to deal certain players to round out the roster. Having 10-12 young NHL ready defenseman is great.......but you can only field 6 of them in a starting lineup. Meanwhile, we have since July known Sullivan was out for an extended time and that we lacked a winger......and yet we have made no moves to help out our offense.
Poile is a good GM, but I think he has definite flaws to his handling of teams. He is not a pro-active GM. He is more content to sit back and see what falls in his lap. Sometimes this is good. Sometimes its not. Right now, with our huge amount of defensive prospect, we really need some creativity. It will be interesting to see what Poile does at the deadline. He can definitely improve this team for the short-term and for the future. Trading for an UFA will be a cop-out IMO. Its not going to push us over the edge into a contender (unless it is Marian Hossa). Lets see if Poile can actually deal a young player for another young player.....I'm holding out hope that he can get this done. Bring in a young winger Poile....We need it badly!
I think you're forgetting the Sullivan trade that pushed us over the edge to get into our first playoffs.
I would ask how you know that the big free agent signings the last couple of years had nothing to do with Poile going after the deal?
I've proposed two trades that were fairly well received on the proposal\rumor board:
1. Michael Ryder for Klein and Ortmeyer
We're likely overpaying a little bit here, Ortmeyer has no value...I"m just trying to free up a space\jettison some dead weight. Klein, realistically, is going to be fighting an uphill battle just to get consistent time in our lineup for the foreseeable future.
Ryder has struggled and fallen out of favor in Montreal, but he was a 30 goal scorer not long ago. He's purely a sniper..he needs someone putting the puck on his stick to succeed...and I think a change of scenery could do him well, and he'd be in a perfect situation playing with Legwand and Erat.
2. Kevin Klein OR Ville Koistinen\3rd for Vaclav Prospal
This is our ideal move, IMO. TB is going to lose Boyle and Klein\Koistinen coudl launch themselves playing down there. We get a solid scorer at almost no direct cost to our immediate team.
Good observation Nomorekids, I even remembered that he works for the Penguins organization last night but I didn't even think about the scouting part.
Doesn't he oversee Penguins prospects however?
Anyway, he very well could have been scouting the Hawks too...
Not to mention what we would think would be our trade bait in Koistinen or Klein weren't on the ice last night, unless they are looking at Suter, Hamhuis, Zidlicky, etc.
Good observation Nomorekids, I even remembered that he works for the Penguins organization last night but I didn't even think about the scouting part.
Doesn't he oversee Penguins prospects however?
Anyway, he very well could have been scouting the Hawks too...
Not to mention what we would think would be our trade bait in Koistinen or Klein weren't on the ice last night, unless they are looking at Suter, Hamhuis, Zidlicky, etc.
Well, beyond that, they don't really have anyone that fills our immediate need. Most of the guys they would be willing to trade are more long-term project types...Erik Christensen, etc.
Christensen for Klein is a good trade for both parties. I would not be surprised to see something in that mold.... or may include more players on both ends.
nothing MORE on the Hossa trade? any other wild ones out there
What do you think of the wild hunting foppa?
I don't see us being even close to in the market for Hossa...UNLESS we plan to give him the 7 or 8 million dollars he'll command next year. It's going to take a king's ransom, and I don't see us paying that for a rental when we're only on the bubble.
Eklund is just typing to see words on the screen. Names I mentioned...guys we could likely land without selling the farm...are better bets.
I don't see us being even close to in the market for Hossa...UNLESS we plan to give him the 7 or 8 million dollars he'll command next year. It's going to take a king's ransom, and I don't see us paying that for a rental when we're only on the bubble.
Eklund is just typing to see words on the screen. Names I mentioned...guys we could likely land without selling the farm...are better bets.
