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With all this trade talk, I'm Wondering

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Old
01-28-2004, 08:25 PM
  #1
copperandblue
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With all this trade talk, I'm Wondering

As far as the posters here go, what are your motivating factors in all the trade suggestions?

I am wondering if you guys see this as a time to dump salaries,

or

You simply don't like the players that are on the team right now,

or

You feel we need to get younger (or in other words you guys just want to hedge bets as much as possible and accumulate as many prospects as possible, therefore hoping that the chances of more than few will pan out)

or other reasons?

Also if you would, based on trading the guys who's names keep getting thrown out, how do you picture the future for the franchise mapping out in terms of when they can contend or even regain competitiveness?

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01-28-2004, 08:37 PM
  #2
Slats432
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My goal would be to improve the overall quality of the team in any deal.

Acquiring Biron, who I think is at least Tommy's equal at half the price and much younger and blowing out Tommy is strategic.(Invest the money elsewhere.)

Getting Ferguson off the ice in any deal is an improvement.

Moving Oates would be to save the rest of his salary since he didn't accomplish what we set out for him to do makes sense.

I don't see any other necessary moves. I say we keep the team together as it is...if someone is going to overpay for Laraque, Smith or Smyth, then you look at every deal within it's own merits.

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01-28-2004, 08:39 PM
  #3
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For me, I simply don't like some of the players on this team. Lowe needs to make some trades to improve this team. We have some good draft picks that could be traded away, some decent prospects and even a couple Roster players that I am sure could get a decent return if packaged together. Here is a list of players who am I fed up with and who I think should be traded away or let go...

Would like to see go:

Laraque - he's overpaid and does nothing productive on the Oilers
Ferguson - he's taking up a spot that our good young d-men could be using
Pisani - just too many guys like him on this team (Horcoff, Chimera, Moreau)
Salo - at 3.9 million he is way overpaid and Conklin could do his job just fine
Oates - it was a good idea in the beginning but he just doesn't fit in here

Wouldn't mind if they did go:

Isbister - he's been playing better lately but he's too inconsistent
Smith - he's going to be looking for a big raise and he would likely get one of the best returns for the Oilers
Smyth - if the right deal came along and Lowe couldn't pass it up then I would agree with letting him go...but it would have to be a damn good trade for the Oilers

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01-28-2004, 08:48 PM
  #4
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Guys that are keepers FOR SURE: York, Dvorak, Torres, Hemsky and Semenov. I would keep Staios as the veteran defensive leader because he's a great team guy and not too expensive. Ditto for Moreau (he makes less than Laraque!).

That leaves a lot of options for Kevin in my opinion and teams will be willing to pay for Smith and Smyth, and possibly Salo. If we can get a similar return to what Columbus got for Sydor I say do it.

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01-28-2004, 08:51 PM
  #5
Slats432
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I think what the biggest motivation as fans is that we need to generate excitement because the team sure hasn't.

We need to feign excitement for the future because as of right now, there seems to be about 30 games until golfing season. Might as well do something that gets us up for next year because this year ended up being a downer.

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01-28-2004, 09:13 PM
  #6
Bohologo
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More philosophically: we're all innately progressivists, even the most pessimistic among us, because we think that most things can be improved by fixing what's not working. As none of us actually work for the Oilers in a management capacity, this trade talk is our outlet for all the frustration this year's Oilers are generating. If we can make a trade on paper that would improve the team, we feel better, even if it's not real.

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01-28-2004, 09:24 PM
  #7
Digger12
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My take:

Since I don't forsee any managerial or coaching changes happening anytime soon (other than perhaps some assistant coaches moving on), we have to look at the players and see what we have to work with.

This team has taken some strides this year in integrating some youth like Torres and Stoll, but there is still deadwood that needs to be cleared.

-Oates...unfortunately, this year's Dopita. At least he taught guys like Stoll and Horcoff how to win faceoffs, thanks for that. He'll be gone after this season anyway.

-Laraque...you see the flashes of power forward dominance, but he's been on a fast decline for 3 years now and at 27 doesn't look to be getting any better. Assuming we can get anything for a trade thanks to his own fine work sabotaging his value, he has to go.

-Pisani...even last year I never really saw what others saw in him, if he were 3 years younger I might be more willing to have him around. Since Reasoner's absence, he's done nothing. I'd rather give Salmelainen or Rita his spot. It boggles my mind that he was given a one way deal so easily. Traded for McDonald's coupons if necessary.

-Ferguson...too easy to pick him, we need dmen not team mascots that everyone pulls for. Lynch and/or Woywitka will phase him out soon enough.

-Smith...I hate to see him go, but his contract and trade value are hard to ignore when the Oilers are where they are right now. Fair or not, his tenure as captain has been on a team often ridiculed for lack of leadership and grit. That doesn't reflect well on him. Traded at the deadline or draft for something substantial.

-Chimera...I love his speed and hitting, but the only time I notice his speed is when the puck isn't on his stick. Right now I'd call him a borderline NHLer, mainly due to his inability to think the game at the NHL level. He's a bigger version of what Rico Fata used to be like...all speed, no results. I'd give him one more year at most to prove that one way deal wasn't another mistake.

-Salo...Don't you DARE touch that option, Lowe. Don't dare touch it. He's had his time, his first few years were good years but when a goalie has one bad year it can be attributed to bad luck/injuries/minor setback/streakiness...when it's 2 bad years in a row, it's time to look at other options, ESPECIALLY at his salary. If he won't resign at half the salary, back to Sweden...I'd be doubtful anybody would want him for trade.

These will do for starters, but I worry that only symptoms are being dealt with, not the disease itself. That won't be quite so easy to deal with. The depth at center for this franchise has been decimated, yet we have wingers falling out of our pockets. Other than occasionally Brewer with his little sifter from the point, we don't have any dmen who remotely resemble a pp quarterback. Our special teams are the joke of the NHL. How are THESE fixed?


Last edited by Digger12: 01-28-2004 at 09:28 PM.
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Old
01-28-2004, 09:49 PM
  #8
copperandblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I think what the biggest motivation as fans is that we need to generate excitement because the team sure hasn't.
That's fair enough but at the same time when I look at the team's line up and continually see the same players thrown out in trade suggestions (Smyth and Smith the most obvious) I got to be honest and see it as a step back.

The return would most likely be a cheaper version of themselves without the experience and a few more question marks as far as how they will progress.

Meaning why trade a 20 goal scorer (just as an example) if they will only get a 20 goal scorer (or even only a potential 20 goal scorer) back?

It's the same kind of lateral trades that we saw Sather do over and over in his last few years here and a good reason the team was left so mediocre.

Right now, based on the NHLPA site, the Oilers salaries total just over 34 mil.
Based on my personal opinion of who should stay and who should go (either trade or simply letting walk at the end of the year) there is almost 10 mil worth of players that could be sent packing without weakening the team long term.

Between the the guys that are remaining and the guys on the farm, that would only leave 2 real positions that would require filling.

The current roster;

Smyth Oates Isbister
Torres York Dvorak
Moreau Reasoner Hemsky
Horcoff Stoll Laraque
Chimera Pisani

Smith Staios
Brewer Cross
Semenov Ulanov
Luoma Ferguson

Salo
Conklin

If the guys in Bold were gone, I don't think the team is worse off and the savings are almost 10 mil

Based on who's left and on the farm

Smyth ??? Isbister
Torres York Dvorak
Chimera Reasoner Hemsky
Moreau Stoll Laraque
Rita

Smith Staios
Brewer Semenov
Lynch Woywitka
Bergeron
(maybe keep a cheap vet like Ulanov a 600k)

???
Conklin

Based on carrying todays payroll, that would leave over 7 mil to address the two biggest problem spots.... a first line center and a new goalie
And granted the D would be pretty young but these guys need to be brought in at some point.

In terms of goalies, there seems to be glut on the market and a good goalie for in around 2 mil is realistic and as far as a center goes, maybe with the new CBA and 5 mil +/- Lowe could actually dabble in the FA market.

At the very least, it leaves the core in tact for the first time in a long time which would only help the team as a whole.

Just my thoughts

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Old
01-28-2004, 09:58 PM
  #9
Digger12
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Fair enough, but I'd rather keep Horcoff and lose Laraque.

Horcoff is faster, much more versatile, cheaper and younger. As long as he's kept as a bottom sixer, I have no problem with him.

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01-28-2004, 10:04 PM
  #10
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My motivation to make changes on this team is that I don't see this team improving much in the next few years. There are some players that IMO have hit their potential and should probably make way for players with a higher ceiling.

Smyth - sad to say, but his best playing years are behind him. While he'll still be a solid contributor for about 60 or so points, he was at his bet playing with Weight. I love this guy to death and I wish he'd stay his entire career as an Oiler, but with the beatings that he takes in front of the net, he won't have a long one.

Smith - He's at that age where he's reached his peak as a tough hitting defensive defenseman. I see about one or two more years of him staying at this level before it starts going downhill.

Laraque - He doesn't fight, he doesn't score...he's at a point right now where his reputation precedes him. No one wants to fight him anymore and he's to chivalrous to start something. I don't see him in the Oiler's future.

Salo - Inconsistent play the past two seasons. I find it hard to keep a high level of confidence in him without wondering when he's gonna be in a slump again. Back two seasons ago, I could count on two things in life...death and Salo starting in goal and playing a solid 60 minutes. Now, I clench my butt whenever he gets the start.

Those are the main ones...others like Moreau, Pisani, Staios, Cross, Ulanov, and Ferguson will continue to contribute to the Oilers, but I don't think their play will improve beyond this level.

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Old
01-28-2004, 10:46 PM
  #11
copperandblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Smyth - sad to say, but his best playing years are behind him. While he'll still be a solid contributor for about 60 or so points, he was at his bet playing with Weight. I love this guy to death and I wish he'd stay his entire career as an Oiler, but with the beatings that he takes in front of the net, he won't have a long one.
See and I think this year will prove to be an anomolly. But that's just a difference in opinion I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Smith - He's at that age where he's reached his peak as a tough hitting defensive defenseman. I see about one or two more years of him staying at this level before it starts going downhill.
I disagree big time here, look at guys like Stevens and Chelios these guys are not only effective at their age but important pieces to their team. I love the idea of a young team but one of the spots that a little age actually helps is for stay at home defencemen. If Smith was holding out for big dollars then I have no problem trading him but I think there would be regrets if he was traded because he was considered close too or over his peak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Laraque - He doesn't fight, he doesn't score...he's at a point right now where his reputation precedes him. No one wants to fight him anymore and he's to chivalrous to start something. I don't see him in the Oiler's future.
Laraque is a tough one for me. He certainly hasn't done much to suggest he is important but at the same time he is very effective as a deterent if nothing more. Like Digger said a guy like Horcoff is probably better but is that the right approach if guys start getting knocked around?

Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Salo - Inconsistent play the past two seasons. I find it hard to keep a high level of confidence in him without wondering when he's gonna be in a slump again. Back two seasons ago, I could count on two things in life...death and Salo starting in goal and playing a solid 60 minutes. Now, I clench my butt whenever he gets the start..
I agree, I think Salo has some good years left in him but not here and certainly not at that price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Those are the main ones...others like Moreau, Pisani, Staios, Cross, Ulanov, and Ferguson will continue to contribute to the Oilers, but I don't think their play will improve beyond this level.
And for me, Horcoff, Pisani, Cross and Fergy are the main ones because at the very least Smyth, Smith and Laraque have proven what they are capable of.

I can't see trying to improve the team when the plan is to get rid of the guys that have at the very least shown something and keeping these other guys that have shown nothing more than what they are right now. If what they are currently showing isn't good enough for today, how would it be good enough tomorrow when your trying to be even better?

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Old
01-29-2004, 01:51 AM
  #12
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Every year at this time our gm has to make the financial/roster decisions that will determine either our immediate playoff success (not gonna happen), and/or our future budget.

There's no doubt in my mind that Gator earned every bit of his salary this season, but only Gator, his agent and Lowe know if he'll be available to the Oil at the right price again in the next few seasons.

Right now we might be able to get far more value out of him in a trade than we would in future mileage in an Oiler jersey.

As far as any other deals are concerned, we have a few areas of excess and one major deficiency in our roster. There's no way that I'm going to predict that the Oil will be a top ten team in the league with the current group of centers we have and imo the Oil should be shooting at least that high with the rest of the team they have right now.

If Lowe doesn't make any trades I'll be fine with that, but he'd better get Smith signed pretty darn quick if that's the case. He also has to use some prospects/picks to get us a center.

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01-29-2004, 02:51 AM
  #13
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If the Oilers keep any vet around, I hope they can afford to keep Jason Smith. I never thought I would have said this 2 years ago. He seems like he wants to be the captain of the Oilers now. I've been critical of him over the years. But his punishing hits win me over. Not flashy.

I get the feeling Ryan Smyth might be getting sick of seeing players he had chemistry with move on to richer clubs. He sees that perhaps the Oilers are gonna purge even more shrinking his hopes more of ever seeing playoff success. A possible cup contender in 5-6 years isn't enough, and I can understand that.

I get the feeling that Jason Smith enjoys the increased respect he gets in the room with every season. Just a hunch. I think it may be easier to keep him around. Of course like any other NHL'er his biggest dream would be a cup. But leading this room might help keep his mind off possible greener pastures. It doesn't always work. Ask Curtis.

I don't know how easy it will be to keep Brewer around come contract time. He's playing terrific right now. He could land alot in a package. Just saying.......

Isbister? More greif than glory imho. But I'm the guy that said Brewer wouldn't get much better last October. I don't think he's proved enough in his time here though. I think he will be worth less a year from now.

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01-29-2004, 03:34 AM
  #14
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My motivation for considering big trades is a lack of team chemistry which defined specifically would be lack of skill and character. This year's team has simply not shown up for must win games (Nashville) and the special teams are truly an oxymoron.

I can live with a team losing if they do so honourably. That is to give everything possible (insert Smyth cliche - 110% effort) but this team has been uninspired in all of their must win games. Getting grossly outshot and outplayed. Too often giving up backbreaking soft goals. The other teams simply wanted it more. This I cannot live with. Another post discussed the 'death of Oilers hockey'. What I miss is the loss of top-end skill players (which I can accept due to the financial insanity) but I cannot abide the lack of passion, forechecking, perseverence, and full out effort which defined past champions.

This team is 3-5 years from possibly contending for the cup. I would keep a core of Brewer, Semenov, Staios, and Ulanov. Upfront Torres, Hemsky, York, Dvorak, Chimera, Reasoner, and Moreau. Beyond that anyone would be for sale for the right price. The Oilers have been responsible in managing their precious few pennies. If horse trading is to be done, it is time for us to be on the other end of a two for one or three for one trade with the best player involved coming our way.

In terms of priority, I look first to obtain a frontline skilled centreman. Secondly, a younger goalie such as Biron who has been mentioned here. Finally, we simply need to beg, borrow or steal a confident, skilled power play defenseman.

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01-29-2004, 04:13 AM
  #15
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The way I see it is NOW time to get ready for post-cba.
Rita, Lynch, Salmelainen should stick for the remainder of the season and us tolerate their learning curve.
Lowe should pick his core guys to build around for 2005, and make room for our best prospects NHL ice time, NOW.
Oates - sorry but no longer can keep up with the pace. Maybe he should take over the PP coaching from Simpson.
At least we know he can coach the faceoff, because Stoll and Horcoff have both improved since his arrival.

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01-29-2004, 04:20 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilersRRRock/Kim
The way I see it is NOW time to get ready for post-cba.
Rita, Lynch, Salmelainen should stick for the remainder of the season and us tolerate their learning curve.
Lowe should pick his core guys to build around for 2005, and make room for our best prospects NHL ice time, NOW.
Oates - sorry but no longer can keep up with the pace. Maybe he should take over the PP coaching from Simpson.
At least we know he can coach the faceoff, because Stoll and Horcoff have both improved since his arrival.
I agree. Might as well begin the youth movement and see firsthand how and if these next generation kids can play.

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