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Lowe's options, or Funeral for a Friend.

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Old
01-29-2004, 05:12 PM
  #26
dawgbone
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I wouldn't touch Finley...

The guy is going to lose his knees before he makes any significant contribution to the NHL.

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01-29-2004, 05:27 PM
  #27
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I agree with Mizralble for the most part, but then he inevitably just has to throw in some boneheaded quip like this:

Quote:
trading Smith would signal to the fans that the season is over, and attendance would begin to dwindle at Rexall Centre.
This season has been horrible. Since the Heritage Classic the Oil are 9-14-6-1 and the fans were pissed off as early as January and attendance has not shown any signs of "dwindling". We need to sellout almost every game to keep the team so I don't see attendance "dwindling". You're wrong about this, just like you were WRONG about Conklin never being a good backup, WRONG about H. Sedin being better than Hemsky, and WRONG about Rexall PLACE using artificial crowd noise. If no one else will say it, I will, you're an idiot when it comes to the Oilers!

And before you start whining that I can't "throw a fit because I don't agree with you" save it. I admit I don't know everything there is to know about the Oilers, but I sure as heck don't PRETEND to know like you. You're a condescending egomaniac who actually believes everything you say is God's word.

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01-29-2004, 05:30 PM
  #28
bucksoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I wouldn't touch Finley...

The guy is going to lose his knees before he makes any significant contribution to the NHL.
Fair enough...

Like I said, I'm not all that up on my goalie prospects.... just fairly certain that Biron doesn't fit all that well in EDM.

However, I'd consider Noronen + 1st (as high as ours) for Smith + Rita. Not sure whether Buffalo would do it, but they are pushing for a playoff spot... perhaps the extra revenue is worth it?

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01-29-2004, 05:37 PM
  #29
kyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksoil
Fair enough...

Like I said, I'm not all that up on my goalie prospects.... just fairly certain that Biron doesn't fit all that well in EDM.

However, I'd consider Noronen + 1st (as high as ours) for Smith + Rita. Not sure whether Buffalo would do it, but they are pushing for a playoff spot... perhaps the extra revenue is worth it?
I would take that deal. I am a huge Noronen supporter for one and think of what we could get with those two early 1st round picks. This year isn't as deep as last year but there is supposed to be great depth up until mid-1st round. Two picks there would surely help.

This deal could be pulled off if Rita takes off now that he's been called up to fill in for Yorkie. Hopefully he makes the best of his chance and, though I'd hate to see him go, we'd be getting a hell of a return in a deal like this.

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01-29-2004, 05:51 PM
  #30
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When I said 'dramatic', I was alluding to the threads that had posters saying, 'It's all over, let's sell the vets'. It's not all over. The Oilers still can make the playoffs.

Slats - I'm 100% in agreement with you there. Don't give up on this season yet. And don't trade Smith until you have to.

Strapping - I would suggest that you're probobly going to be hard pressed to find buyers for Oates, Salo, or Laraque this deadline. I doubt Oates has any interest at all, considering his lacksadaisacal play this year. Salo's numbers and history in the playoffs don't bode well for him being a wanted rental. And Laraque's play, contract, and comments recently to the RDS reporter have all but killed any semblence of trade value he had before.

The best trading chips the Oilers have is Jason Smith along with perhaps a couple depth guys such as perhaps Ethan Moreau (hope he doesn't go anywhere) and maybe even Shawn Horcoff.

I have not heard ANY legitimate Ryan Smyth rumours yet, and I still doubt they come to pass. Smyth being traded is about as unlikely as Eric Brewer being traded in my mind.

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01-29-2004, 08:45 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I have to agree with Mizral on this one. Some posters are ready to ice an AHL line up to draft Cam Barker. I would call that overly dramatic.

Jason is a reason why the Oilers win, which is a reason they buy tickets.
We haven't been winning with Jason IN the lineup either. Jason can and should go unless he agrees to a contract extension for no more and possibly less than the 2.3 million he's making today.

GM's have to consider the consequences of contracts they award within a team as they have a domino effect. I haven't agreed with many of Lowe's contracts.

The problem is that Lowe gave Staios a hefty raise for the next 2 years which is close to what Smith gets. Lowe overpaid Staios considering the type of defenseman he REALLY is. Smith is by far the more valuable and talented player and will thus will want to be paid accordingly compared to Staios.

IMO another one of Lowe's mistakes to go along with paying Brewer 2.5 million this year, signing Cross for 3 years and not getting goaltending help.

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Old
01-29-2004, 09:10 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
The Oiler's are a very loyal organization and this is reflected in the dressing room and the mngt team.

How many teams have guys like laraque that threaten to quit hockey if they were traded?
Point #1- I think the Oiler organization USED to be a very loyal organization. I think it's been obvious for the last couple of years that it is no longer such. Yes, Lowe supports his coaches but I don't see the loyalty and concern for the players that used to be there and which was part of the tight dressing room.

Now, as I've seen mentioned by others, if a player steps up for a year (especially if cheaper) an established player gets traded. It's happened many times and hasn't really worked. Eg Staios made Niinimaa expendable. Hemsky was playing well making Carter and even Comrie more expendable ( I know, differenent positons but talking aabout offense.)Cochlin=Markannen.

Playing injured and loving Edmonton doesn't cut them any slack with Lowe-Niinimaa.

How much can Lowe be trusted after the Comrie negotiations?

Signing a long term cheaper contract to stay just makes a player more tradeable-Smyth, Moreau (Lowe may not trade them but you see their names out there now).

New players coming in from Lowe's trades get every chance to suceed (Lowe needs to look good) while some vets suffer-Ryan Smyth getting shuffled around all year while Dvorak stays on the top line and plays his natural position.No wonder Ryan looks depressed. All the hype about Isbister-how many points does he have?

None of these things can be helping the dressing room or contributing to team play.

#2 As for Laraque-How many players have had it as good as Laraque has had it in Edmonton?

I wouldn't want to leave a place where the fans love you no matter how inept you are, where you get contract increases and extensions for having a bad year, where you get to watch from the pressbox or play 4 minutes a game and still earn 1.4 million a year and where you're told you're valuable for something you don't even do (protect, hit , fight).

I'd want to stay too but I wonder how the other players feel about a lazy teammate who is content to collect cheers from the fans and a big paycheck while they bust their butts and get booed off the ice.


Last edited by Dale: 01-29-2004 at 09:13 PM.
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Old
01-29-2004, 09:15 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
I think you guys might be overestimating the potential of Brewer and basically what we have here is a difference of opinion regarding the value of Biron.

Brewer-
Has not improved over the last two seasons. This is not to say that he's been awful (though he's had moments in my opinion) but he's just not worth the $2.5 million the club is paying him, and that he will have to be qualified at after this season. Here are his stats from the last 3 years:
GP G A P +/- PIM S Sht%
2003-04 Edmonton NHL 46 2 9 11 -2 34 74 2.70
2002-03 Edmonton NHL 80 8 21 29 -11 45 147 5.44
2001-02 Edmonton NHL 81 7 18 25 -5 45 165 4.24

Now somebody tell me how he's worth $2.5 million per season? The highest paid defenseman on the team! And don't just say ice time. I've seen some very LAZY play creep into his game the last year. He doddles coming back after a bad pinch-in attempt, he goes for stick-checks a la Poti more often than he used to, and he doesn't move his feet to carry the puck up-ice when needs be. His points indicate that he's not a true offensive defensman, in fact he trails Smith, Staios, Cross and Bergeron in defensman points on the Oilers. I think he should be moved while the memory of the All-Star and Olympic callibre d-man is still fresh in other GMs minds.
Have to agree completely with this post regarding Brewer's play.

Maybe there has been method to Brewer's subpar play for the 1st half of every season. It's so that when he starts playing better, we think he's actually developing! I finally see through this devious plan!

Brewer is playing like a decent #3 or maybe #4 defenseman right now and some think he looks great because they are comparing him to the way he played the first 3 months. Wow, Brewer is really coming on! What a relief! Just look at that boy play!

Not. He's basically the same player he was two years ago and IMO it's doubtful he'll ever become the consistant #1 or even #2 that all the hype and screams of "potential" have lead people to believe he will be. He may have the physical tools but he doesn't have the mindset for it; his offense is average and his defense nonphysical.

He's probably at his peak in value now, so Yes, I could see a Brewer/Laraque trade getting something we really need, including a goalie and maybe another defenseman.


Last edited by Dale: 01-29-2004 at 09:29 PM.
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Old
01-29-2004, 10:20 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
Point #1- I think the Oiler organization USED to be a very loyal organization. I think it's been obvious for the last couple of years that it is no longer such. Yes, Lowe supports his coaches but I don't see the loyalty and concern for the players that used to be there and which was part of the tight dressing room.

Now, as I've seen mentioned by others, if a player steps up for a year (especially if cheaper) an established player gets traded. It's happened many times and hasn't really worked. Eg Staios made Niinimaa expendable. Hemsky was playing well making Carter and even Comrie more expendable ( I know, differenent positons but talking aabout offense.)Cochlin=Markannen.

Playing injured and loving Edmonton doesn't cut them any slack with Lowe-Niinimaa.

How much can Lowe be trusted after the Comrie negotiations?
You're forgetting one thing though..... Lowe doesn't deal proven veterans on a whim or just for the sake of doing it. It is usually to keep this team financially viable. Look at the hard-on MacT has for veteran players. If you think Lowe wants to ship these guys out of here because someone else might be able to do the job for half the price, you're way off base.

Lowe has to cut costs to keep this team in Edmonton. And that means sacrificing experienced players if he feels that an younger, and more importantly cheaper player can fill that position.

If Lowe was as loyal to his players as you would like, the Oilers would be in Houston and we could watch them go the Finals with all their high-priced experienced talent that they have managed to re-sign over the years.

Loyalty really has nothing to do with it. It is more a matter of survival.

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Old
01-29-2004, 11:40 PM
  #35
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Guys, trust me when I say that Mizral wouldn't come here as often if his Nucks were in 9th place. But unfortunately his team is sitting good this season..........thus lots of Mizral this season. Just a warehouse of useless information and misguided, uninformed advice.

It says alot about the type of person he is. There's always been one like him in every class I've taken, or any job I've had.

The boy has some serious personality issues.

When Naslund leaves and the Nucks fall off the map again........we won't see as much of him.

But until then.........we'll just have to put up with his regurgitated weekly crap.


Last edited by gretzky2kurri: 01-29-2004 at 11:44 PM.
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Old
01-30-2004, 06:31 AM
  #36
Hemsky4PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksoil
Agreed... we need more out of Buffalo than Biron.

Sure Biron is the "best" of the 3 goalies they have, but he is finishing the first year of a three year contract. He'll be done two years by the time the dust settles from the new CBA, leaving him with 1 useful year left (2005-2006). In that summer (2006) he'll be turning 30.... So essentially we trade Brewer, whom we WILL have a chance to resign prior to his UFA years, for one full year of Biron.

I'm just not sure most people realize that we need to get an even YOUNGER goalie than Biron.
First off, we don't know what the age of UFAgency will be under the new CBA. It might be 28, it might stay at 31, who knows.
If it stays at 31, then Biron would not be a UFA until the summer of 2008 (he was born in Aug. '77.

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Old
01-30-2004, 01:38 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Strapping - I would suggest that you're probobly going to be hard pressed to find buyers for Oates, Salo, or Laraque this deadline. I doubt Oates has any interest at all, considering his lacksadaisacal play this year. Salo's numbers and history in the playoffs don't bode well for him being a wanted rental. And Laraque's play, contract, and comments recently to the RDS reporter have all but killed any semblence of trade value he had before.
Mizral, read my post again if you have to, I didn't say Salo would be traded.... The goalie supply out there is better than what Salo has to offer. What I said was that the Oil have him for the year, and he either signs for less in the off-season, or they cut him loose....

Oates' reputation still has some value, especially when a contender needs to rent a veteran centre at the deadline due to an injury.

There are teams that need/think they need some more muscle (i.e. Ottawa) to help them compete with the Leafs and Phillys of the NHL. They will throw a late draft pick the Oilers' way for a guy like Georges. I think his comments about never fighting are to be taken with a grain of salt.... a stupid comment made with emotion from a loyal hockey player. I think there are some GMs out there that would appreciate that kind of showing of loyalty for a team, and wish more of their own players were like that.

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Old
01-30-2004, 06:10 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
Have to agree completely with this post regarding Brewer's play.

Maybe there has been method to Brewer's subpar play for the 1st half of every season. It's so that when he starts playing better, we think he's actually developing! I finally see through this devious plan!

Brewer is playing like a decent #3 or maybe #4 defenseman right now and some think he looks great because they are comparing him to the way he played the first 3 months. Wow, Brewer is really coming on! What a relief! Just look at that boy play!

Not. He's basically the same player he was two years ago and IMO it's doubtful he'll ever become the consistant #1 or even #2 that all the hype and screams of "potential" have lead people to believe he will be. He may have the physical tools but he doesn't have the mindset for it; his offense is average and his defense nonphysical.
Oh please. You're telling me that YOU know more about hockey and potential and hype than the GM's of Team Canada. I guess Eric has "fooled" them but not you. As for Brewer stats not improving over the last three years, sure, I'll grant you that. But Brewer's role has changed with each year: he has gained more minutes and played against the better players every year, and hence has to have greater defensive accountability. When Brewer was traded to EDM in 2000 for Hamrlik the six D for the Oil were: Ulanov, Smith, Niiniimaa, Poti, Brewer, Sean Brown. Eric was 4/5 defender back then.

By the end of 2002, Poti and Brown were traded, Ulanov signed with NYR, and Staios, Ferguson/Butenschon joined the Defensemen. The Top 4 were Smith, Niiniimaa, Brewer and Staios where Eric was 3/4.

By the end of 2003, the top 4 D were Smith, Staios, Brewer and Semenov/Cross. Niiniimaa was traded to the Island. Semenov made the jump from minors and Cross was traded from NYR. Bergeron joined as the 6th Dman. Until Niiniimaa was traded late in the year, Brewer was comfortably on the second pairing, playing PP minutes and probably the #3 Dman.

During this year with Janne fully gone, Brewer has had to be better of the pairing of Brewer-Cross, instead of being shielded with Niiniimaa. Smith and Staios are the other top pairing. Cross is not as good as Niiniimaa and Brewer has strugged this year against better opposition and the greater responsibilities. He has noticeably improved his game when Cross and Smith were injured and Brewer joined Staios to be the number ONE dman lineup playing 30 minutes per game. Development is not instantaneous and with each step are growing pains, made more acute with yearly changes in the Oil lineup. Brewer is currently a 23 year old top 3 dman on the Oil. There are not many other Dmen who are that young who play that amount of quality minutes. Brewer may never turn into a reliable offensive threat, I tend to think of him as a young Adam Foote. Currently, Brewer is averaging 23:45 minutes per game, SECOND on the team to Staios. One of the problems is expectations, Brewer may never develop into Rob Blake's offensive stats. But IMO, he's still well on his way to becoming a top defenseman.

Stats:
year/gp/goals/assists/pims/plusminus

Brewer
2001-02/81/7/18/45/-5
2002-03/80/8/21/45/-11
2003-04/47/2/10/21/-1

Foote (born 1971, so in 1994, he would be 23)
1992-93 QUEB 81 4 12 168 6
1993-94 QUEB 45 2 6 67 3
1994-95 QUEB 35 0 7 52 17
1995-96 COLO 73 5 11 88 27
1996-97 COLO 78 2 19 135 16

Jovanovski (born 1976, so in 1999, he would be 23)
1997-98 FLOR 81 9 14 158 -12
1998-99 FLOR 41 3 13 82 -4
1998-99 VANC 31 2 9 44 -5
1999-00 VANC 75 5 21 54 -3
2000-01 VANC 79 12 35 102 -1
2001-02 VANC 82 17 31 101 -7

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