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02-11-2008, 10:55 AM
  #1
Fletch
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Petr Prucha...

thought that'll get your attention.

I wanted to address Peter Prucha in a thread. I should first say I'm not a rah-rah Prucha guy, but I'm also not a Prucha detractor. I think I've been critical over the years, as well as have been positive and have pointed out his flaws and good traits on many occasions since I try to be as objective as possible.

Many in here seem disappointed with Prucha. This season has exposed him as a support guy whose best attributes are enhanced if he plays with good players and with quality ice time. I think that everyone expects him to score 20+ goals no matter in what role he is playing, and no matter who he's playing, and as such, the expectation is set unfairily high for the role in which he's placed, I believe. Personally, my expectations are for 10-12 goals, 20-25 points; why? Because he's been playing mostly 8-10 minutes per game and no PP time; overall, it's less than 12 minutes per game, less than 2 minutes on the PP (which means he's played sporadically).

Prucha is a support guy. He's a guy with a very good shot, but who needs to get the puck in order to shoot it, unfortunately. He does not create a lot by himself, though, and he's not a very good stickhandler. As such, for him to be successful he needs to play with guys who can get him the puck, and he needs quality PP time.

One of the issues facing him is he's not a Renney type of player. He wasn't defensive-minded, and that's hurt his ability to consistently get quality ice time. He wasn't a part of Renney's plan a couple seasons ago, but his offense forced him into the lineup. He got quality PP time and the PP performed well. He bounced around on other lines, from the first to the fourth, and while on the first (in Ruca's absence), he played well, but when Ruca returned, he was bumped. His second season saw him get bounced from the first PP, which means no quality PP time. He still amassed 22 goals while playing on whatever line he played on (bouncing around again) and bouncing from the first unit, but playing mostly on the second unit of the PP if he played at all.

This season has been even worse with more players joining the Rangers and Renney trying to find quality ice time for too many players. Once again, Prucha is the odd man out. Perhaps it's justifiably so, that's not what I'm in here trying to argue, but I don't know if it's fair to still have 20+ goal expectations for a kid whose role clearly has changed, although I'd argue he's never had a role with the Rangers and has bounced around on all four lines, on the bench and on and off the PP.

Despite all this, we're talking about a kid who's among the team leaders in +/-, which to me means he may be doing his job. How can I say this? He's getting 8-10 minutes per night and no PP time. What is his job? His job is to give quality shift after quality shift and make sure he doesn't lose the game for his team - if he was getting more ice time and PP time, perhaps I'd say his job was a bit more. Being a plus implies that he's on the ice for more goals for than against - that's doing his job. I'd like to see him score more, but at least he's not getting scored upon. Not sure I can expect much more from a kid with that kind of playing time.

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02-11-2008, 11:05 AM
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You make very good points with your expectations for him this season.

One key point is that he's not a Renney type of player. To me that says, he's not in Renney's long term plan which means he finds it more important to find time for the likes of a Dubinsky/Dawes while Prucha is left to suffer on many occasions. I personally do not feel that Prucha has much time left as a Ranger. I would be surprised if he was here 2 years from now.

I really don't criticize the Rangers development of him, because the goal is winning. To win now, and create an environment that will produce winning in the future. It may be best for Prucha to get ice time on the top 2 lines, but is it best for the Rangers? I don't know that. I think he would be served best on a team without many offensive threats where he will play with a couple talented line-mates and get that ice time at even strength, and on the PP. I actually feel a team like the Isles or Minn would be excellent plaaces for him to play. On the Rangers? Not so much. They will always have their high price players, as well as their young players coming down the pipe-line who 'fit the plan.'

I actually feel parting ways would be best for the Rangers, and Prucha's career if a good deal could be found.

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02-11-2008, 11:14 AM
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I too don't think...

that Prucha's here long-term and am somewhat surprised he's last this long (perhaps the market for him wasn't great). I do fault Renney somewhat for not developing him further, in some regards. It hasn't seen that over the course of his almost three seasons here he was afforded the leash that others have been afforded. On the flip side (I did state in some regards), he has become a better defensive player (which, perhaps has hurt his offense since he may be thinking that better defense may be a way to more ice time).

It will be interesting to see if he's here after in March. I do like the Dawes/Dubi/Prucha line and think all three started playing well when they were playing together and it has been fun to watch. But with the team at full strength, I'm not sure it makes sense for Prucha to be here.

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02-11-2008, 11:32 AM
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Im obviously a Prucha fan. I agree with the points mentioned above. But I will say. Going foward--- a phrase Renny likes to use alot. Prucha is part of the solution not the problem. We need to move towards youth. The team will no longer be built around old dried up players like Jagr, Shanny and Straka. Instead guys like Drury and Gomer will be the main focus. Dawes, Dubi, Pru and Callahan have all proved they can play with those two. Especially Dawes and Pru with Drury. That line kind of turned Drury around they were making plays and having a impact almost every game. Yea Prucha has sucked this year. The entire team has been wayyy below average so he is really on par with the rest of the guys. Getting rid of him is a step in the wrong direction. Lets hope Sather doesnt repeat history, digging us into a even depper hole.

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02-11-2008, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruuu View Post
Im obviously a Prucha fan. I agree with the points mentioned above. But I will say. Going foward--- a phrase Renny likes to use alot. Prucha is part of the solution not the problem. We need to move towards youth. The team will no longer be built around old dried up players like Jagr, Shanny and Straka. Instead guys like Drury and Gomer will be the main focus. Dawes, Dubi, Pru and Callahan have all proved they can play with those two. Especially Dawes and Pru with Drury. That line kind of turned Drury around they were making plays and having a impact almost every game. Yea Prucha has sucked this year. The entire team has been wayyy below average so he is really on par with the rest of the guys. Getting rid of him is a step in the wrong direction. Lets hope Sather doesnt repeat history, digging us into a even depper hole.
I think he is part of this teams problem, but would be a solution for another team. One of this teams biggest problems is that it has no size. We have straka, drury, cally, dawes, gomez, and prucha all under 6ft.

all these players are better, and fit better in the Rangers. Cally while not as good offensively is better defenseivly, can PK and is also $500k-$1mm cheaper cap wise. I would trade him instantly for a prospect/player w/ some size. Our younger (and cheaper) prospects also arent the biggest either. Therefore he is actually part of a major problem for our team and is the weakest and most expendable link.

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02-11-2008, 11:39 AM
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pruuu...

the question is should this team have all of Cally, Dawes and Prucha - long term, I'm not sure that's the right thing.

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02-11-2008, 11:42 AM
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I like Prucha, how can you not when you see the little guy bounce back from every hit. But thats the thing, he does get hit, often.

He almost plays a power forwards game, but he doesnt have the shot, or the size along the boards/in front of the net that you'd need to be successful. And he isn't much of a playmaker cause he can never hold onto the puck for long.

Reminds me of Radek Dvorak.

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02-11-2008, 11:55 AM
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What irks me so much is that our PP is anemic and Yet our PP specialist, Prucha, has not been getting ice time. Meanwhile Jagr, who has only ever had two season were he did his thriving on the PP, has continuted to castrate it, gets so much time.

Edit: Jagr has always had a lot of PP assist, but he never really scored massive amounts of goals in the PP.


Last edited by Loto68: 02-11-2008 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Edit: Jagr has always had a lot of PP assist, but he never really scored massive amounts of goals in the PP.
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02-11-2008, 11:55 AM
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true, but no one had theses complaints during his 20+ goal seasons. If he was doing that this year no one would complain. We are all fed up with this team of overpaid underproducers I agree. But keep him with Dawes or put him with a guy like Gomer and he will get open and he will score. And everyone will be happy. Theres room for guys like him to grow. All guys like Jagr and older players are going to do is decline. As of now there are not really great power fowards on the market. So why not keep the guy and see what he can bring next year. On a team without the weight of Jagr ect holding them down. I do not necessarily dislike Shanny as much as Jagr and Straka. Neither of those two do much at all. Infact I can only thing of a few games in which Jagr had the impact a captain should have. At least Shanny can boost the power play and turns his fursteration into hard play. But I am going off topic. Keep Prucha for now hes on a 2 yr contract. Let next season be the determining factor.

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02-11-2008, 11:56 AM
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He actually does have a really good shot, he just has a slow release which causes it to get blocked a lot.
His defensive game has improved a lot and if he has the time he does make good very plays. He's great along the boards and on the forecheck as well, as he usually ends up coming away with the puck. His puck handling in tight areas leaves a lot to be desired which is why he doesn't create much space for himself although I think that is more due to his lack size which makes it easy to move him off the puck. However he is good at handling the puck in open ice as I've seen him make some very good moves in the past.

Also http://hockeyrodent.com/R1976.HTM
Check the charts on the right side. Last 21 games Prucha has the most PP goals per 60 minutes of PP time. Unfortunately he's never on the PP anymore... Granted it's only 2 goals, but the problem is that Jagr's PP line sucks. Too much passing. I'd really consider sitting Jagr on the PP if he's not going to get the puck to the net.


Last edited by WhipNash27: 02-11-2008 at 12:03 PM.
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02-11-2008, 11:56 AM
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I am a Prucha supporter. He has very soft hands and a good shot. Further, I think he is our best or second best shooter in the overtime. He is a plus player and has become defensively aware. He needs a puck toting center to give him a chance to score. I would love to see him play with Gomez for ten games Given our power play, why does he not get some time?

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02-11-2008, 12:09 PM
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Nice post O.P...

I still believe that Prucha can be a very good 2nd liner for a Cup winning team. He just seems to be one of those players that just needs some continuity, which he just isnt finding this year.
He isnt the type of player that can switch lines and never miss a beat ( eg Dawes, Dubi, Gomez ).


I think he'd be pretty good playing with Jagr and Gomez. But Renney would never ever try it for a good stretch.

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02-11-2008, 12:12 PM
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Prucha would be a minus if he got more icetime playing on the top two lines.

And he doesnt get as much time on the PP because he cannot keep the puck, he was turning it over like no tomorrow the first half of the year when he did get PP time.

Much rather have Dawes on the top lines at this point.

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02-11-2008, 12:13 PM
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prucha is my favorite ranger
he gives 100% every night, plays physical, hustles, has no fear, forechecks, and does his job well. he is more than just a goal scorer, and although his numbers may not show it, he has contributed greatly. his presence on the ice gives both the team and the fans (for the most part) a lift

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02-11-2008, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strongbad3689 View Post
prucha is my favorite ranger
he gives 100% every night, plays physical, hustles, has no fear, forechecks, and does his job well. he is more than just a goal scorer, and although his numbers may not show it, he has contributed greatly. his presence on the ice gives both the team and the fans (for the most part) a lift
Oh no, the dreaded Todd Harvey/Jed Ortmeyer label !

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02-11-2008, 12:16 PM
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Some kid I used to go to school with said he was Todd Harvey's cousin. Not sure if he was FOS but had the same last name.

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02-11-2008, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by strongbad3689 View Post
prucha is my favorite ranger
he gives 100% every night, plays physical, hustles, has no fear, forechecks, and does his job well. he is more than just a goal scorer, and although his numbers may not show it, he has contributed greatly. his presence on the ice gives both the team and the fans (for the most part) a lift
What you say is true but that doesn't mean that he fits on this team. His two biggest flaws are his size, and ability to keep the puck... neither of these are going to change. he is already being passed up by younger and cheaper players on the depth chart. I think we should sell him for whatever we can get now b/c I really don't think he will be resigned after next year.

he is a good player when paired w/ great players, but he will never create any offense on his own, and isn't that great of a passer so he doesn't make players around him better. he will never get the playing time or PP time he needs on this team especially w/ the likes of Chery, Ani, Bourret coming up and joining the ranks of Gomez, Drury, Dubi, Dawes. Plus you also have cally, and byers, and moore, and dupont, and pyatt. most of these players can also PK as well. Pruchs is an odd man out. Also who knows what we could get if we become sellers this season. Prucha won't ever have a place on this team and we should part ways w/ him as soon as possible both for our sake ($1.6 mill cap hit) and his.

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02-11-2008, 12:32 PM
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trade bait.

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02-11-2008, 12:37 PM
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Having said all this...

I'm still trying to find a role for Prucha. Ideally, he's a third liner getting 10-11 minutes of ice time and getting 3 minutes of PP time. That's in a world where the fourth line is a fourth line and it gets 4-5 minutes of ice time. Further, it's in a world where the checking line can also put up points and the top line scores. He's not a top line player (although he could, and should've, filled in more over the last three seasons than he did). I don't think he has the durability to play 16+ minutes of ice time over an 82-game sked. But this isn't the ideal world as sometimes I still can't figure out what Renney's tring to do, unless it's as simple as have the bottom two lines not lose it for the team and hope that Henke and the top two lines can pull out a win.

In the end, I don't think Prucha fits Renney's system and a move may be the best thing for him and the Rangers.

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02-11-2008, 12:56 PM
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He actually does have a really good shot, he just has a slow release which causes it to get blocked a lot.
Sorry to nitpick, but I'd consider quick release a key part of having a Good shot. Any NHL player can hit a corner if you give them an hour and a half. The way shots are blocked these days, a hard, accurate shot's value is dependent on whether you can 1) get it off quickly, 2) create your own shooting lane, or 3) have stellar playmakers feeding you.

That said, I like Prucha. The kid's got tremendous heart. But it's clear he's not going to be put in the position he needs to be in to be productive on this team. For his own sake, I'd love to see him traded to a team that could give him that chance. Provided we got something decent in return, of course...

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02-11-2008, 01:25 PM
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I'd like to see him traded for his own good, just like Kovalev was (in Alex' case two times).

I'm not sure he's a 20-25 goal, 50-60 point guy but it doesn't look like he'll be one with us.

And I really don't blame Renney, either.

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02-11-2008, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
thought that'll get your attention.

I wanted to address Peter Prucha in a thread. I should first say I'm not a rah-rah Prucha guy, but I'm also not a Prucha detractor. I think I've been critical over the years, as well as have been positive and have pointed out his flaws and good traits on many occasions since I try to be as objective as possible.

Many in here seem disappointed with Prucha. This season has exposed him as a support guy whose best attributes are enhanced if he plays with good players and with quality ice time. I think that everyone expects him to score 20+ goals no matter in what role he is playing, and no matter who he's playing, and as such, the expectation is set unfairily high for the role in which he's placed, I believe. Personally, my expectations are for 10-12 goals, 20-25 points; why? Because he's been playing mostly 8-10 minutes per game and no PP time; overall, it's less than 12 minutes per game, less than 2 minutes on the PP (which means he's played sporadically).

Prucha is a support guy. He's a guy with a very good shot, but who needs to get the puck in order to shoot it, unfortunately. He does not create a lot by himself, though, and he's not a very good stickhandler. As such, for him to be successful he needs to play with guys who can get him the puck, and he needs quality PP time.

One of the issues facing him is he's not a Renney type of player. He wasn't defensive-minded, and that's hurt his ability to consistently get quality ice time. He wasn't a part of Renney's plan a couple seasons ago, but his offense forced him into the lineup. He got quality PP time and the PP performed well. He bounced around on other lines, from the first to the fourth, and while on the first (in Ruca's absence), he played well, but when Ruca returned, he was bumped. His second season saw him get bounced from the first PP, which means no quality PP time. He still amassed 22 goals while playing on whatever line he played on (bouncing around again) and bouncing from the first unit, but playing mostly on the second unit of the PP if he played at all.

This season has been even worse with more players joining the Rangers and Renney trying to find quality ice time for too many players. Once again, Prucha is the odd man out. Perhaps it's justifiably so, that's not what I'm in here trying to argue, but I don't know if it's fair to still have 20+ goal expectations for a kid whose role clearly has changed, although I'd argue he's never had a role with the Rangers and has bounced around on all four lines, on the bench and on and off the PP.

Despite all this, we're talking about a kid who's among the team leaders in +/-, which to me means he may be doing his job. How can I say this? He's getting 8-10 minutes per night and no PP time. What is his job? His job is to give quality shift after quality shift and make sure he doesn't lose the game for his team - if he was getting more ice time and PP time, perhaps I'd say his job was a bit more. Being a plus implies that he's on the ice for more goals for than against - that's doing his job. I'd like to see him score more, but at least he's not getting scored upon. Not sure I can expect much more from a kid with that kind of playing time.
you....complete me...


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02-11-2008, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
thought that'll get your attention.

I wanted to address Peter Prucha in a thread. I should first say I'm not a rah-rah Prucha guy, but I'm also not a Prucha detractor. I think I've been critical over the years, as well as have been positive and have pointed out his flaws and good traits on many occasions since I try to be as objective as possible.

Many in here seem disappointed with Prucha. This season has exposed him as a support guy whose best attributes are enhanced if he plays with good players and with quality ice time. I think that everyone expects him to score 20+ goals no matter in what role he is playing, and no matter who he's playing, and as such, the expectation is set unfairily high for the role in which he's placed, I believe. Personally, my expectations are for 10-12 goals, 20-25 points; why? Because he's been playing mostly 8-10 minutes per game and no PP time; overall, it's less than 12 minutes per game, less than 2 minutes on the PP (which means he's played sporadically).

Prucha is a support guy. He's a guy with a very good shot, but who needs to get the puck in order to shoot it, unfortunately. He does not create a lot by himself, though, and he's not a very good stickhandler. As such, for him to be successful he needs to play with guys who can get him the puck, and he needs quality PP time.

One of the issues facing him is he's not a Renney type of player. He wasn't defensive-minded, and that's hurt his ability to consistently get quality ice time. He wasn't a part of Renney's plan a couple seasons ago, but his offense forced him into the lineup. He got quality PP time and the PP performed well. He bounced around on other lines, from the first to the fourth, and while on the first (in Ruca's absence), he played well, but when Ruca returned, he was bumped. His second season saw him get bounced from the first PP, which means no quality PP time. He still amassed 22 goals while playing on whatever line he played on (bouncing around again) and bouncing from the first unit, but playing mostly on the second unit of the PP if he played at all.

This season has been even worse with more players joining the Rangers and Renney trying to find quality ice time for too many players. Once again, Prucha is the odd man out. Perhaps it's justifiably so, that's not what I'm in here trying to argue, but I don't know if it's fair to still have 20+ goal expectations for a kid whose role clearly has changed, although I'd argue he's never had a role with the Rangers and has bounced around on all four lines, on the bench and on and off the PP.

Despite all this, we're talking about a kid who's among the team leaders in +/-, which to me means he may be doing his job. How can I say this? He's getting 8-10 minutes per night and no PP time. What is his job? His job is to give quality shift after quality shift and make sure he doesn't lose the game for his team - if he was getting more ice time and PP time, perhaps I'd say his job was a bit more. Being a plus implies that he's on the ice for more goals for than against - that's doing his job. I'd like to see him score more, but at least he's not getting scored upon. Not sure I can expect much more from a kid with that kind of playing time.
Agreed on all accounts.

Maybe we'll see Prucha shine if he gets top ice time when our top six gets ripped apart after this season.

Prucha COULD be a very valuable asset in the future.

Trade bait? I thought so, but really no point now. What's he going to fetch with his value at this point, a 3rd rounder? Keep him.

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02-11-2008, 02:15 PM
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Its Petr, not Peter.

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02-11-2008, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I like Prucha, how can you not when you see the little guy bounce back from every hit. But thats the thing, he does get hit, often.

He almost plays a power forwards game, but he doesnt have the shot, or the size along the boards/in front of the net that you'd need to be successful. And he isn't much of a playmaker cause he can never hold onto the puck for long.

Reminds me of Radek Dvorak.
How is playing a power forwards game and bouncing back from hits anything like Radek Dvorak?

The only thing he and Dvorak have in common is good speed, ability to shoot the puck, and that they're both Czec. Dvorak is an outside skater and always avoided any kind of physical contact. He was also a floater and never had 1/4 of the passion Prucha plays with.

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