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Old
02-19-2008, 04:10 PM
  #76
FlyHigh
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I also think that Carter's passing/playmaking has gotten much, much better, if he wasn't stuck with Upshall/Kapanen/Knuble all year, I think we'd be seeing better assist totals, he's really becoming the complete package, perhaps a poor man's Lecavalier.

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02-19-2008, 04:18 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I also think that Carter's passing/playmaking has gotten much, much better, if he wasn't stuck with Upshall/Kapanen/Knuble all year, I think we'd be seeing better assist totals, he's really becoming the complete package, perhaps a poor man's Lecavalier.
Carter's play has been much better compared to last season. I'd like to see him play with more consistent linemates, but I can probably say that about any of our scorers. Carter's continued defensive development will help take some of the burden off of Richards. Less ice time for Richards = A fresher Cannon!

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02-19-2008, 04:19 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
I was at the Toronto auto show yesterday and there was this booth with some guy selling Chinese herbal remedies. He had little baggies of a green substance that apparently helped you quit smoking (which you just reminded me of), but the funniest part was being offered Chinese viagra, "lasts 14 hours".
Don't even go there...your girlfriend will kill you, if not now, most certainly when/if you put that ring on her finger.

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Originally Posted by 27roenick97 View Post
no, seriously. i understand richie's instincts are second to none on the team. but look at what i said, "based on size", he could become more important than cannon. what made prims such an effective shutdown center for us for so long? instinct and size. instinct can be taught; size cannot.
Oh, c'mon, don't try to ruin my joke by getting all serious on me.

I'm having great difficulty discussing Mikey's size due to Storm's post above, but I'll do my best: I'm not worried about Richie's size or lack there of, there has been more than one feisty "shrimp" in the NHL who thrive on the defensive play--Peca is the one that immediately comes to mind.

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For sure, it's nice to have a "yeah but" when talking about Carter's scoring slumps. He's not exactly one-dimensional anymore. He's a very responsible player at even strength and that's a huge step forward for him.
I agree. He is doing far more in the d-zone than he ever has before.

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02-19-2008, 04:21 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by flyersfan97 View Post

I'm having great difficulty discussing Mikey's size due to Storm's post above, but I'll do my best: I'm not worried about Richie's size or lack there of, there has been more than one feisty "shrimp" in the NHL who thrive on the defensive play--Peca is the one that immediately comes to mind.


Nick Lidstrom, Larry Murphy and Kris Draper did a damn good job of shutting down Lindros/LeClair without having the size due to their brains....

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02-19-2008, 04:30 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Nick Lidstrom, Larry Murphy and Kris Draper did a damn good job of shutting down Lindros/LeClair without having the size due to their brains....
Clutch and grab era. I'm not saying that it's just because of that, but small guys could get an edge on bigger guys at times by clutching and grabbing. It's a lot easier to pin a guy against the boards if you get 2 fistfuls of his jersey.

I see what Jester is saying and I agree, it'd be great to have a big defensive center just to go along with Richie.

And besides, while I don't want him to become all-offense, it's better if Richie doesn't have to concentrate on his defense all the time.

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02-19-2008, 04:45 PM
  #81
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Jeff Carter might become a hybrid third line centerman - someone who can shut down the opposition while scoring 35 to 40 goals a season. Tell me what team wouldn't want a third line center like that.

As well, if reports are true that Briere is unhappy in Philadelphia, he might just waive his no movement clause and we can bump Richards to the top spot and Carter to the 2nd line. Either way, having a 6'3, 220 pound center who can score 30 to 40 goals a year is a pretty nice thing to have.

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02-19-2008, 04:48 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan97 View Post
I'm having great difficulty discussing Mikey's size due to Storm's post above, but I'll do my best: I'm not worried about Richie's size or lack there of, there has been more than one feisty "shrimp" in the NHL who thrive on the defensive play--Peca is the one that immediately comes to mind.
Peca is also a prime example of the difficulty smaller, slower players have as they age keeping up... Peca's effectiveness (aided by the knee injury) declined demonstrably as he aged.

Peca use(s/d) body leverage much more effectively than Richards has displayed thus far in his career. Richards is a good physical player, but he struggles at times down low manhandling players off the puck.

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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Nick Lidstrom, Larry Murphy and Kris Draper did a damn good job of shutting down Lindros/LeClair without having the size due to their brains....
sign me up two HoF defenseman and I'll stop worrying about it... the Red Wings... and the Devils... are poor examples due to the reality that was their blue line.

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02-19-2008, 04:49 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Jeff Carter might become a hybrid third line centerman - someone who can shut down the opposition while scoring 35 to 40 goals a season. Tell me what team wouldn't want a third line center like that.
if he's scoring 35-40 goals a season we're going to have to pay him so much that there won't be two players on this roster you want out there more than him at center.

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As well, if reports are true that Briere is unhappy in Philadelphia, he might just waive his no movement clause and we can bump Richards to the top spot and Carter to the 2nd line. Either way, having a 6'3, 220 pound center who can score 30 to 40 goals a year is a pretty nice thing to have.
where the hell are you hearing reports that Briere is unhappy?

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02-19-2008, 04:51 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Peca is also a prime example of the difficulty smaller, slower players have as they age keeping up... Peca's effectiveness (aided by the knee injury) declined demonstrably as he aged.

Peca use(s/d) body leverage much more effectively than Richards has displayed thus far in his career. Richards is a good physical player, but he struggles at times down low manhandling players off the puck.
Jester, Richie's a "baby" in terms on hockey tenure, but based on past/current performance, he's bound to improve. For example, look at his FO% this year, it's been a HUGE improvement over his first couple of seasons. His strength will improve--no doubt in my mind.

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02-19-2008, 06:02 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
if he's scoring 35-40 goals a season we're going to have to pay him so much that there won't be two players on this roster you want out there more than him at center.



where the hell are you hearing reports that Briere is unhappy?
I've heard on talk radio here in Canada that Briere was unhappy in Philadelphia. I think it's more or less frustration that he hasn't had stable linemates and he's played with 13 different players.

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02-19-2008, 07:19 PM
  #86
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Clutch and grab era. I'm not saying that it's just because of that, but small guys could get an edge on bigger guys at times by clutching and grabbing. It's a lot easier to pin a guy against the boards if you get 2 fistfuls of his jersey.

I see what Jester is saying and I agree, it'd be great to have a big defensive center just to go along with Richie.

And besides, while I don't want him to become all-offense, it's better if Richie doesn't have to concentrate on his defense all the time.
Yeah, but Murphy and Lidstrom did all their work with their sticks, they didnt clutch and grab.

I dont disagree with Jester, just making a point that brains wins over size and physical ability in my book anyday

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02-19-2008, 07:21 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Jeff Carter might become a hybrid third line centerman - someone who can shut down the opposition while scoring 35 to 40 goals a season. Tell me what team wouldn't want a third line center like that.

As well, if reports are true that Briere is unhappy in Philadelphia, he might just waive his no movement clause and we can bump Richards to the top spot and Carter to the 2nd line. Either way, having a 6'3, 220 pound center who can score 30 to 40 goals a year is a pretty nice thing to have.
You wont be able to afford to keep him as the third line center if he is scoring that much.

This **** with Briere is really pissing me off.....A guy who has been a borderline star in this league for the past few years has a rough time for several weeks and already he needs to change positions, waive his NMC, etc. Jesus christ, give the guy some quality linemates, a coach that knows how to make adjustments and give the guy a damn chance....(not directed at you BCF16)

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02-19-2008, 09:04 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
You wont be able to afford to keep him as the third line center if he is scoring that much.

This **** with Briere is really pissing me off.....A guy who has been a borderline star in this league for the past few years has a rough time for several weeks and already he needs to change positions, waive his NMC, etc. Jesus christ, give the guy some quality linemates, a coach that knows how to make adjustments and give the guy a damn chance....(not directed at you BCF16)

VERY well said, mike--especially from a guy who wasn't real big on getting Briere here to begin with. But everything you said is so true. I'm 100% certain that no one is more upset about Danny's play than Danny himself.

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02-19-2008, 09:10 PM
  #89
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VERY well said, mike--especially from a guy who wasn't real big on getting Briere here to begin with. But everything you said is so true. I'm 100% certain that no one is more upset about Danny's play than Danny himself.
Thanks....I do think Briere needs to be accountable for his play and needs to share some of the blame, but people are being ridiculously hard on him in my opinion.

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02-19-2008, 09:26 PM
  #90
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A huge chance to prove his signing was worth the risk...and he fumbles the puck like a 10 year old. See the slick move Giroux pulled? A 19 year old in his first NHL game while being booed? But Briere's the one that can't even get a shot off.

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02-19-2008, 10:24 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
A huge chance to prove his signing was worth the risk...and he fumbles the puck like a 10 year old. See the slick move Giroux pulled? A 19 year old in his first NHL game while being booed? But Briere's the one that can't even get a shot off.
Kinda agree with you there, but Giroux is 20 now. Just sayin'.

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02-19-2008, 10:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
A huge chance to prove his signing was worth the risk...and he fumbles the puck like a 10 year old. See the slick move Giroux pulled? A 19 year old in his first NHL game while being booed? But Briere's the one that can't even get a shot off.
oh. my. god...

the puck rolled on rough ice. **** happens

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02-19-2008, 10:44 PM
  #93
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oh. my. god...

the puck rolled on rough ice. **** happens
For one, they cut the ice before the shootouts, so it should have been smooth. Even still, if it was rough, just shoot. Notice how Ottawa scored those goals?

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02-19-2008, 11:24 PM
  #94
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Jesus Christ you all whine about shoot-outs and how you hate them and then Briere messes one up and he becomes the anti-Christ.

If this were Downie or Richie there would be a thread about how he decided he was too cool for the shoot-out and decided not to endorse it.

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02-19-2008, 11:27 PM
  #95
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Jesus Christ you all whine about shoot-outs and how you hate them and then Briere messes one up and he becomes the anti-Christ.

If this were Downie or Richie there would be a thread about how he decided he was too cool for the shoot-out and decided not to endorse it.
Check the other thread and you'll see I won't be supporting Richie. Regardless, I'm always in favor of a shoot-first attitude on shootouts. Especially when you have a wrister like Briere's.

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02-20-2008, 05:23 AM
  #96
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For one, they cut the ice before the shootouts, so it should have been smooth. Even still, if it was rough, just shoot. Notice how Ottawa scored those goals?
I agree, but that is what happens when you are struggling....he tried to be too cute.

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02-20-2008, 07:42 AM
  #97
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Kinda agree with you there, but Giroux is 20 now. Just sayin'.
I think in terms of his junior age until he moves up, he's in his 19 year old season.

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02-20-2008, 11:33 AM
  #98
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I agree, but that is what happens when you are struggling....he tried to be too cute.
Yep. My dad and I were going back and forth for most of last night's game about the whole team trying to be too fancy. The goals came on simple plays. When things aren't going your way, it's time to go back to basics. This is where we need Stevens to step up.

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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup
I think in terms of his junior age until he moves up, he's in his 19 year old season.
Fair enough. Not being Canadian, I unfortunately don't have enough influence of the CHL in my life.

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02-20-2008, 12:01 PM
  #99
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You wont be able to afford to keep him as the third line center if he is scoring that much.

This **** with Briere is really pissing me off.....A guy who has been a borderline star in this league for the past few years has a rough time for several weeks and already he needs to change positions, waive his NMC, etc. Jesus christ, give the guy some quality linemates, a coach that knows how to make adjustments and give the guy a damn chance....(not directed at you BCF16)
No offense taken. I agree about the Briere comments. It's hard for the guy to develop any sort of chemistry with anyone when 13 different players have been used with him. That's why I'm all for a deal to acquire someone like Miro Satan. I think he'd be a perfect fit on Briere's wing.

I'm more than willing to give Briere the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he's slowing down or anything like that. I still think he's putting up very good numbers when you consider that he's really in no man's land in terms of linemates. I think more important than acquiring a solid defenseman is to acquire linemates for Briere. You just don't sink that kind of money into a player and then let him languish in mediocrity.

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02-20-2008, 12:20 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by flyersfan97 View Post
Jester, Richie's a "baby" in terms on hockey tenure, but based on past/current performance, he's bound to improve. For example, look at his FO% this year, it's been a HUGE improvement over his first couple of seasons. His strength will improve--no doubt in my mind.
he'll improve, but he plays defense MUCH differently than Peca did when he was a force with Buffalo. Peca was fantastic at getting under guys to take them off the puck, which simply isn't how Richards plays... it's not a matter of gaining more strength in this case, it's just how the two go about business.

men's musculature continues to develop until they're about 35... athletes tend to decline long before then. getting stronger doesn't necessarily improve all things... Richards will always be a very strong defensive player, but he has and I think likely will continue to struggle against bigger, stronger forwards down low (Carter has struggled against them as well, not saying he's played them better).

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