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Old
02-13-2008, 02:14 PM
  #26
Jaromir Jagr
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
together again? Thought that was a disaster through the early part of the season and I'm not even sure if the two have combined for a PP goal together this season. Maybe two time's a charm.
I think Renney figures with Dubinskys' hot play as of late he could benefit even more from the big man and he may able to get the big guy going, maybe.. I guess.

Anyway, two time's a charm worked for Gomez and Jagr, and it also worked for Drury and Dawes/Prucha, so, it could here too..

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02-13-2008, 02:24 PM
  #27
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thats just what jagr thinks. he plays mind games with himself. if he realized that he is a great player with or without mario or nylander, he would be successful
He won a Cup without either of them so presumably he knows he's a pretty good player. This has nothing to do with emotions. It's about skills beginning to slack off because of age. In my opinion.

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02-13-2008, 02:24 PM
  #28
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Lines, Schmines, I need to see W's.

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02-13-2008, 02:28 PM
  #29
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I feel like this team always comes out great when the lines are switched. Its almost like they stop getting complacent in the system and are willing to react and adapt to the new players around them. Then after a game or 2 they go right back to their frustrating inconsistencies.

I propose we take the top 9 fowards and start picking names out of hat before each game to pick the lines. Keep everyone on their toes.

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02-13-2008, 02:29 PM
  #30
Fletch
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Cere...

that may be the case, but the two have been playing the PP together for several games now (at least 6 or 7) and have zero points on the PP.

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Old
02-13-2008, 02:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by dccuse View Post
One of the largest (although there are several) problems on this team right now is that jagr is not scoring. Not to suggest that other people shouldn't be picking up the slack, but to a certain extent the Rangers necessarily rely on Jagr for scoring production.
With that said, Renney has to do whatever is in his power to get Jagr scoring. I wouldn't be surprised over the next two weeks to see Jagr play with several centers. If by the end of that time some chemistry has developed and Jagr starts finding the net then no harm done. If he doesn't, then it might validate a Jagr trade that would undoubtedly have a high return, and give some of the more productive players (as of late) a chance to carry the team.

I feel that Gomez will put up points no matter who he plays with, and to get Shanny (who is far harder to trade) going would be a blessing come the playoff stretch.

Sure these combinations seem like a "prayer" but the time is running out to determine whether Jagr can be a contributor down the stretch, and whether he deserves the amount of minutes that he commands regardless of his output.

Otherwise we risk losing him at the end of the year for squadoush
if it where up to me i would put a cattle prod up his a** im really getting tired of jagr i wouldnt mind loseing him at seasons end or tradeing him time to let the youth and newly aquired guys run this time

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Old
02-13-2008, 02:35 PM
  #32
Jaromir Jagr
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
that may be the case, but the two have been playing the PP together for several games now (at least 6 or 7) and have zero points on the PP.
Yes, that's true. That powerplay as a whole sucks though, I think Jagr stinks it up and Rozsival doesn't help any. Dubinsky, Straka, Mara do fine on that PP but Jagr and Rozsival over-pass and that PP as a whole does not get pucks to the net. Even strength may be different..

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02-13-2008, 02:36 PM
  #33
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well zero points will continue if they dont shoot, ugh i have never been soooo annoyed with this team ever, Jagr should just go to therapy

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02-13-2008, 02:38 PM
  #34
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2448...

let's say Jagr is gone. Let's say Shanny decides his body's had enough. Who takes their minutes and produces? Who can go against top defensive pairs every night? I understand the Jagr is not producing, er, the amount he's producing is very un-Jagr-like, but the other options aren't pretty. The Rangers could go out and get Hossa - but as many mentioned, what does that do to the salary cap? Do you then not sign Rozsival and fill three defensive spots over the Summer? And how much does three defensive spots cost if it's determined that guys in the AHL aren't ready to make the jump?

It's easy to say Jagr's not going to score 80 points so let's get rid of him, but this team, unforatunately, is currently built around him - they need at least one more year of him, even as a 60+ point guy, to get into shape to live life without him.

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02-13-2008, 02:40 PM
  #35
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Chere...

Jagr and his centerman are the focal points of Jagr's PP. When Nylander was here the two would move around, from left side to right side, from in the corner to up high, etc. The PP wasn't great because it didn't shoot much, but it was a lot better than it is today because they moved around and when you move around you get the PKers moving around and when they move around holes open. While the other PPers, in particular Straka, haven't been stellar, the PP's run by Jagr and the centerman and most often you see the puck not getting out of their hands and into others, and thus I place a majority of the blame on that duo.

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Old
02-13-2008, 02:42 PM
  #36
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i really dont like the drury line....but the gomez, dawes, shanahan line i think might work......if those two can get the puck to shanny to score....it all depends if shanny can even skate anymore...he might not be able to keep up

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02-13-2008, 02:48 PM
  #37
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Looks more like a ploy to have Gomez with Shanny than anything to do with Jagr.

I personally want to see Drury and Straka with Jagr again. They did it for a short time, but I do think that those three could work.

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02-13-2008, 02:49 PM
  #38
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Gomez, Dawes and Shanny...

will work - Gomez bourght up Shanny's play earlier in the season and he continues to play well and Dawes has a hot hand. There's little doubt. Unfortunately it's not about making one line work, it's about making four lines work and the question becomes are these lines the best Renney can come up with given the personnel.

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Old
02-13-2008, 02:52 PM
  #39
Jaromir Jagr
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On the other hand, Hossa is ready to go isn't he?

For the love of god remove Hollweg and replace him with Hossa. PLEASE.

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Old
02-13-2008, 03:00 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
will work - Gomez bourght up Shanny's play earlier in the season and he continues to play well and Dawes has a hot hand. There's little doubt. Unfortunately it's not about making one line work, it's about making four lines work and the question becomes are these lines the best Renney can come up with given the personnel.

Unfortunately what it comes down to is that the Rangers don't have a center that is best to play with Jagr... Dubi doesn't work, Gomez will only work to a point, and Drury certainly doesn't seem to be the type to work.


Rangers just need a center to allow Jagr to pass off of... Not even a point per game player or anything. Just a guy who is a competent passer who can see the ice in a way that Jagr sees it.

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02-13-2008, 03:15 PM
  #41
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not sure why you can see that.

nich - if he's trying to get Jagr going I would think that keeping Gomez on his line and taking Straka off would be the only move. Jagr got going when Gomez replaced Dubi. Also to get Jagr going, Renney should put Jagr on the PP with Gomez. This is more like getting Shanny going, who has played his best hockey with Gomez and it looks like Renney may lean more on Shanny than Jagr coming out of the break (by pairing him with the their best centerman and one of their hottest forwards (Dawes)).
except that jagr hasn't been a top 4 forward any time in the last 10 games...with straka or avery with him and gomez

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02-13-2008, 03:18 PM
  #42
Fletch
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nich...

take Jagr out of the lineup and who takes up those minutes and how well do they do now that they're going against better competition?

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02-13-2008, 03:24 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Unfortunately what it comes down to is that the Rangers don't have a center that is best to play with Jagr... Dubi doesn't work, Gomez will only work to a point, and Drury certainly doesn't seem to be the type to work.


Rangers just need a center to allow Jagr to pass off of... Not even a point per game player or anything. Just a guy who is a competent passer who can see the ice in a way that Jagr sees it.
When Jagr was Jagr it didn't matter who he played with. All of this handwringing about who is the correct fit for him is only proof that he is no longer a superstar despite what some may still think.

What he still is, is a pretty darn good hockey player who the Rangers can ill afford to lose right now. You make the best of what you got. That's the way it works in the land of the Salary cap and I prefer it that way.

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02-13-2008, 03:41 PM
  #44
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yea seriously Jags should suck it up

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02-13-2008, 03:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
When Jagr was Jagr it didn't matter who he played with. All of this handwringing about who is the correct fit for him is only proof that he is no longer a superstar despite what some may still think.

What he still is, is a pretty darn good hockey player who the Rangers can ill afford to lose right now. You make the best of what you got. That's the way it works in the land of the Salary cap and I prefer it that way.
Or so it was said...

Obviously Nylander and JJ complimented each other pretty well. Nyls was also one of the guys who benefitted the most from the rulechanges in the entire league, alongside guys like Briere, Gionta and Co.

Nyls did have 37pts in 40 games for Washington, where he was used on their 2nd line at a time where Semin was injured...

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Old
02-13-2008, 03:45 PM
  #46
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how about this

Straka-Gomez-Shanny

Prucha-Dubi-Jagr

Avery-Drury-Dawes

Hossa-Betts-Orr

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Old
02-13-2008, 03:56 PM
  #47
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Gomez will be able to utilize Shanny, I got no doubt about that. Shanny could struggle when he comes back if he isn't played with Gomez.

Jagr havent scored much with Gomez lately, and if he can score about the same rate with Gomez it might be worth to gamble on it.

Another aspect is that Gomez next to JJ have still been able to win allot of momentum. When Renney put JJ back with Gomez earlier in the season it was because of the fact that none of the lines we had back then was able to win any momentum on a regular basis. That was a big weakness.

And thats the risk with this line-up. Shanny got a tendancy to want to sit back allot, and when he and Gomez played together they didn't establish much pressure, they trapped allot in stead, more so then I think Renney wants them to do. And Dubi-Jagr had problems gooing up against the best checkers.

So thats the make or break, can Gomez and Shanny creates enough circles and establish enough pressure, and can Dubi and Jagr get through the neutral zone against the Maddens in this league, and keep the puck in the attacking zone.

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Old
02-13-2008, 04:29 PM
  #48
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"Prucha's out right now that's why. According to BSB Prucha has a bruise and it's not that bad. He'll be back on Saturday most likely."
__________________
I checked the blueshirt bulletin and did not see where is says Prucha has a bruise. Do you know the title or date where it said that?

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Old
02-13-2008, 04:34 PM
  #49
Nich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
take Jagr out of the lineup and who takes up those minutes and how well do they do now that they're going against better competition?
honestly, anybody. i mean it isn't hard to not score points and play below average d....hell i could do that

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02-13-2008, 04:40 PM
  #50
Fletch
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Then you're missing my point, nich...

First, somehow Jagr is still second on this team in points despite playing horrible, and despite playing about 1/2 the season with a rookie getting his feet wet and Marcel Hossa, who has had one good offensive stretch in his career. Second, you would want whoever is replacing Jagr to be at least that unproductive. Then you need someone to fill in for that person to be as productive as that person was on another line, and so on. Take Jagr off a top line and you have Avery-Gomez-Shanny, or something like that, on a top line. Then you're second line becomes weaker, and so on down the line. Jagr takes up valuable minutes against top defensive pairs, and often against top lines. While Jagr isn't cutting it, the Rangers' depth ain't great enough to make up for what Jagr is actually doing. Imagine Cally getting 15 minutes per game? Eesh.

Don't construe this e-mail as me supporting Jagr. It's more my belief that Sather created a team around Jagr and hasn't assembled the pieces yet to live without him. Further, Renney coached a team to revolve around Jagr, and it's hard to get away from that, but credit him with at least trying somewhat this season (perhaps with not too much success, but he's at least tried).

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