HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

new lines......

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-14-2008, 01:25 PM
  #76
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Ok, Jagr says he likes playing with Dubi, but the results were underwhelming. And Avery, the guy's recent play is arguably worthy of a benching, nevermind a promotion to the top line. Many of his recent defensive gaffes can be tied directly to GWG's against.

Like chosen, I think being in the "playoff hunt" is as much of a failure for this team as Jagr chasing 20 goals. The Ranger are probably leading the East with an additional 10 well timed goals from him alone.

What are your solutions?

It seems like no matter what goes on with this team it's just another opportunity to rip Renney. If he leaves things the same he gets ripped. If he makes changes he gets ripped. If he doesn't show emotion he gets ripped. If he shows emotion he gets ripped for not doing it soon enough. There's no pleasing you people.

My comment about this team being "dead" if Jagr doesn't get going is in reference to us being 1 point out of 8th place with 23 games to play. Last year Jagr had 96 points and scored 30 goals and this team was in much worse shape at this exact point last season! I don't understand the correlation people make to Jagr and this team's overall performance. What I just stated about last season is a fact. Jagr is everyone's scape goat and this team, amidst his poor season, is still ANYTHING but dead as far as the playoffs go.

Avery's play has been poor of late. There's no arguing that. And I stated him being on the 1st line is obviously him being used wrong. However, I tried to give you some logical thinking as to why I believe Renney would put him there. At the end of the day, could it possibly be any worse than any of the other lines we've seen this year?


Your last comment is pretty disappointing to me considering I think you should know better. First off, any season that results in a playoff birth is not a failure. Games are not played on paper and it's yours and others faults for assuming something before it has ever happened. This team can go back to missing the playoffs for a decade and barely be in the playoff hunt in any of them if you like.

And your hypothetical nonsense with Jagr scoring 10 more goals isn't fair. If Prucha scored 5 more goals we might be in first. If Drury scored 8 we might be. If Gomez scored 6 we might be. If Carlos Beltran hits 2 more home runs in the 06 NLCS the Mets are going to the World Series. Hypothetically, anything could happen. So who really cares.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 01:30 PM
  #77
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Before the season a lot of folks thought the Rangers were one of the elite teams of the NHL. Jagr's underperforming is a fair part of the team floundering in mediocrity.

If we had the Jagr we expected we wouldn't be worried about making the playoffs. The people who said the Rangers were dead if Jagr doesn't get going are right.

Before the season a lot of folks thought....


give me a break. Read my post above to Melrose. Who cares what people thought. The games are the only thing that matters. I'm a big Mets fan. We got Santana. A lot of folks are saying we're going to win the NL now. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Nothing. It means nothing. It's your own fault for assuming it to be true.

And like I said in the previous post as well, the Jagr we had last year is the one you're referring to. 30 goals. 66 assists. 96 points. Anddddddd....we were in much worse shape positionally when it comes to the playoff race.

How do you argue that?

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 01:52 PM
  #78
lbrowne
Registered User
 
lbrowne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,122
vCash: 500
I'm probably going to get slammed for this but I wish they'd throw Prucha up with Jagr - even with Dubi there too. Try 3 of those cats for a couple of games.

Prucha is a get-the-puck-and-shoot-a-split-second-later type guy. Dubi and Jagr are the carriers and Prucha is just the redirector. I think it would work.

lbrowne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 01:59 PM
  #79
mstraka82
 
mstraka82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrowne View Post
I'm probably going to get slammed for this but I wish they'd throw Prucha up with Jagr - even with Dubi there too. Try 3 of those cats for a couple of games.

Prucha is a get-the-puck-and-shoot-a-split-second-later type guy. Dubi and Jagr are the carriers and Prucha is just the redirector. I think it would work.
shhhhhhh i kind of agree, dont tell anyone that hahaha

mstraka82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 02:31 PM
  #80
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,456
vCash: 500
At some point in the season...

Prucha should've played with Jagr. I don't think that's a long-term solution because I don't think Prucha can play those minutes, and I don't think he's a top line player, but when Prucha started playing better and Straka started playing worse, it made sense to reunite them given that they have had success playing together in the past. But not with Dubi. The PP with Prucha/Dubi/Jagr was atrocious - I don't even think Prucha got off a shot in 5 or 6 games. There was no set up and no moving around.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 04:02 PM
  #81
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Before the season a lot of folks thought....


give me a break. Read my post above to Melrose. Who cares what people thought. The games are the only thing that matters. I'm a big Mets fan. We got Santana. A lot of folks are saying we're going to win the NL now. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Nothing. It means nothing. It's your own fault for assuming it to be true.

And like I said in the previous post as well, the Jagr we had last year is the one you're referring to. 30 goals. 66 assists. 96 points. Anddddddd....we were in much worse shape positionally when it comes to the playoff race.

How do you argue that?
The performances of Lundqvist and Jagr are by far the two most important factors for the Rangers to be successful. Unless they both shine they are going nowhere. If making the playoffs is a measuring stick of success then there are going to be an awful lot of successful teams this year.

I think most everyone else believes that. You feel otherwise. That's your right.

To use your example, now I want you to tell me that you don't expect the Mets to win their division now that they acquired Santana. Anything less is utter failure and unexpected. You will be surprised if they don't make it and I suspect that you expect them to get to the World Series, too.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 04:20 PM
  #82
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
They had Straka at the point on the PP in practice today (), which I think is an atrocious idea. You need a shooter there, not a dipsy-doodler. I'd rather have Drury from that PP unit on the point, and have Dawes parked in front of the net.

Forechecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 04:49 PM
  #83
mstraka82
 
mstraka82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 933
vCash: 500
Dru should be parked in net with dawes cause they are the only ones that score from there, just leave defensemen back there so dumb putting forwards there like straka

mstraka82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 04:55 PM
  #84
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstraka82 View Post
Dru should be parked in net with dawes cause they are the only ones that score from there, just leave defensemen back there so dumb putting forwards there like straka
I guess Straka's back there, b/c Staal is still out with the flu, and Renney is worried about his stamina for the game.

Forechecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 05:29 PM
  #85
Jaromir Jagr
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I guess Straka's back there, b/c Staal is still out with the flu, and Renney is worried about his stamina for the game.
Well yeah but Straka's usually back there anyway.

Jaromir Jagr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 05:31 PM
  #86
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,456
vCash: 500
Straka...

hasn't been back there the last few games - Straka was a forward on the PP. I believe it was Mara who took Straka's place on the PP point.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 07:52 PM
  #87
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
The only line I like there is the line I wanted from day 1!

Dawes, Gomez, Shanny

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 08:12 PM
  #88
mstraka82
 
mstraka82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I guess Straka's back there, b/c Staal is still out with the flu, and Renney is worried about his stamina for the game.
yea thats true, ehhhhh whocares lets win!

mstraka82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 09:36 PM
  #89
TheSchwab
Registered User
 
TheSchwab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 2,080
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TheSchwab
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Not thrilled with what i see there, but like Fly said - 3 days till the next game.

Renney changes the lines like he changes his underwear.
i thoguht he went commando..........

TheSchwab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 09:46 PM
  #90
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,403
vCash: 500
Dubi is way more confident of a player now. I can see him playing much better with Jagr. As an agitator, hopefully both Dubi and Avery will be able to keep the focus off of Jagr to let him do his thing.

Dawes-Gomez-Shanahan. What took you so long Tom! The line flew in preseason and hasn't got a sniff in the regular season. Preseason is preseason but why didn't he ever give it a shot is beyond me. Hopefully this will get Shanny going. Dawes hustle on the forecheck + Gomez's hustle on the backcheck = Shanny doesn't have to skate as much. Perfect!

Straka-Drury-Callahan. consider me intrigued. I hope Prucha gets better soon.

Hossa-Betts-Orr? Could it be? Could it finally be the night Renney plays Hossa and Betts together on the fourth line!?? I thought I'd never see the night! They play so damn well on the PK together, another line combo, why Renney hasn't tried, again is beyond me. Hossa gets that pass from Betts, he's scoring. We win in WSH. That was too much of a gimme for Hollweg to botch.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2008, 11:00 PM
  #91
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
What I like about these lines is that there is no "obvious" 1st line. Opposing teams will have to contend with threats from all lines, and each line has a good fore and back checking. Let's hope it clicks!

Forechecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 09:54 AM
  #92
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,456
vCash: 500
n8...

the explain why the PP with Dubi in the middle and Jagr on the right has netted zero points in the last 10 games? Perhaps Avery is the difference maker. Or perhaps the Rangers get lucky and Jagr decides that it's time to play and we're back to it doesn't matter who's on that line.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 10:00 AM
  #93
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the explain why the PP with Dubi in the middle and Jagr on the right has netted zero points in the last 10 games? Perhaps Avery is the difference maker. Or perhaps the Rangers get lucky and Jagr decides that it's time to play and we're back to it doesn't matter who's on that line.
You can't compare the PP to ES. The PP problem has nothing to do with chemistry or talent and everything to do with philosophy.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 10:56 AM
  #94
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
You can't compare the PP to ES. The PP problem has nothing to do with chemistry or talent and everything to do with philosophy.
I've heard that before from TrueBlue. I just dont understand the thinking behind a statement like that. Could you explain?

I think its allot closer to say that if anything, the PP lives and dies with individual skills; atleast much more then 5 on 5.

Playing the point on the PP for example is really tough. A QB must be really agile laterally so that he can get the puck and then find open lanes. Its not easy to onetime the puck well.

For example, Detroit is good year after year on the PP, does that have nothing to do with the fact that they got Lidström? Is it all their coachs work?

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 10:58 AM
  #95
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,561
vCash: 500
I am just waiting for someone to say that playing well against Eastern Conference teams is all about talent on the team, but playing well against Western Conference teams is all about the coach...

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 10:59 AM
  #96
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,456
vCash: 500
I disagree with that, McRanger...

I'm not a fan of the PP philosophy, but zero PP points with Dubi as his centerman in the last (actually I think it's 6 games - he did have a point 7 games ago with Gomez). Also, whlie we may not agree with the philosophy, the PP was 8th in the league the last two seasons with Jagr being the focal point compared to 21st this season with Jagr averaging well more than a minute less on the PP. So what's the real difference as to why Jagr, whose on pace for 30 PP points compared to 41 and 48 the last two seasons? It's been the centerman. Philosophy doesn't even come into play when you don't setup. Nylander used to move around with the puck. Jagr would move around from side to side, up and down, because Nylander would move around with him and pass the puck. I wasn't ecstatic about the PP when it was run like that because they rarely shot, but it was a lot better than when Jagr's been out there this season. And I think we've seen the moving around and more efficiencies when Gomez was with Jagr than when Dubi was. I always thought the PP with Dubi and Jagr was an utter disaster - a total joke if you will. Numerous consecutive PP would see those two stationary and the setup last for a few seconds and the puck would clear. Prucha was on the right and in what seemed like several consecutive games, the puck never reached him. Maybe this gets worked on and I can only go off info from past games, but the chemistry between the two wasn't there. Jagr needs someone better at handling the puck and moving with the puck. Dubi's good, but he's not Nylander or Gomez. Perhaps now is a different time, but honestly, I'd rather see Dubi continue his good play with Shanny and Dawes, or something to that effect. I'm not of the belief that Shanny needs a playmaker (especially since last season he did not play with one). In fact, given his penchant from shooting the puck from all over the place, have two guys like Dubi and Dawes crash the net for rebounds makes more sense than a playmaker.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 11:27 AM
  #97
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstraka82 View Post
New lines again for practice

aves- dubi- jags

dawes- gomer- shanny

straks- dru- cally

hollweg/hossa- betts- orr

http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2008/0...hat-champagne/
I'm ok with it. It is not only to get Jagr going. It is to see if Straka-Drury will make a difference. Straka as of today is Rangers MVP. Anyone gets better around him. The only problem would be 2nd line. That combo has proven to be weak in the rpast. Dawes is the reason for it.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 11:28 AM
  #98
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I'm ok with it. It is not only to get Jagr going. It is to see if Straka-Drury will make a difference. Straka as of today is Rangers MVP. Anyone gets better around him. The only problem would be 2nd line. That combo has proven to be weak in the rpast. Dawes is the reason for it.
Huh? I'd argue that Gomer is the NYR MVP right now.

Forechecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 12:24 PM
  #99
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the explain why the PP with Dubi in the middle and Jagr on the right has netted zero points in the last 10 games? Perhaps Avery is the difference maker. Or perhaps the Rangers get lucky and Jagr decides that it's time to play and we're back to it doesn't matter who's on that line.
I would say that on the PP, they just pass the puck forever and WAIT till Jags is open making 13 perfect passes. One of which finally gets intercepted and nothing happens.

Then I would say, yes. The LW is quite important on a Jagr line. Gomez and Jagr didn't get going until Straka returned to the lineup. Then he got the drop pass bug Avery has shown a willingness to get in front of the net and dig for rebounds so that could be another important element to this line.

At ES, you have pieces for some strong board work and cycle. Something that doesn't happen on the PP. Something that requires work and concentration. The cycling part is something all three can excel at.

Dubinsky is quite good at carrying the pill into the zone. He has great timing on dumping the puck so that he can either beat the defender to the puck (usually quite readily) or force the defense to make a questionable obstruction.

Like I said, Dubinsky and Avery are pests. Hopefully they can distract the opposition enough that it gives Jagr that extra 3 feet of ice he needs to make a Jagr play or shot.

optimism!

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2008, 12:31 PM
  #100
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I'm not a fan of the PP philosophy, but zero PP points with Dubi as his centerman in the last (actually I think it's 6 games - he did have a point 7 games ago with Gomez). Also, whlie we may not agree with the philosophy, the PP was 8th in the league the last two seasons with Jagr being the focal point compared to 21st this season with Jagr averaging well more than a minute less on the PP. So what's the real difference as to why Jagr, whose on pace for 30 PP points compared to 41 and 48 the last two seasons? It's been the centerman. Philosophy doesn't even come into play when you don't setup. Nylander used to move around with the puck. Jagr would move around from side to side, up and down, because Nylander would move around with him and pass the puck. I wasn't ecstatic about the PP when it was run like that because they rarely shot, but it was a lot better than when Jagr's been out there this season. And I think we've seen the moving around and more efficiencies when Gomez was with Jagr than when Dubi was. I always thought the PP with Dubi and Jagr was an utter disaster - a total joke if you will. Numerous consecutive PP would see those two stationary and the setup last for a few seconds and the puck would clear. Prucha was on the right and in what seemed like several consecutive games, the puck never reached him. Maybe this gets worked on and I can only go off info from past games, but the chemistry between the two wasn't there. Jagr needs someone better at handling the puck and moving with the puck. Dubi's good, but he's not Nylander or Gomez. Perhaps now is a different time, but honestly, I'd rather see Dubi continue his good play with Shanny and Dawes, or something to that effect. I'm not of the belief that Shanny needs a playmaker (especially since last season he did not play with one). In fact, given his penchant from shooting the puck from all over the place, have two guys like Dubi and Dawes crash the net for rebounds makes more sense than a playmaker.
Jagr's struggles have are based in Jagr himself, not his center, and this counts double on the PP. The past 2 year Jagr scored a ton of his goals (and Prucha with his rebounds) from around circle off a one timer. They may have moved around a lot, but it was a rarity for him to not get back to that spot. Since Jagr no longer shoots first (or second) it tends to be a contest to see who can pass the puck aimlessly back and forth the most, Jagr, Rosy or Straka, culminating in either a bad shot or with Jagr moving down low, getting double teamed and losing the puck. This must happen 90% of the time Jagr is out there. Since Jagr is still clearly a talented player (despite his struggles) it is the coaches job to get the most (or at least SOMETHING) out of him.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.