HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Columbus Blue Jackets
Notices

Hainsey- should we or should we not sign him?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-16-2008, 07:44 PM
  #26
Pluckfur
Registered User
 
Pluckfur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 7,269
vCash: 500
"Hollywood" nickname aside ... I repeat: Hainsey is a stand-up guy. I think he'll stay and that he won't press the money issue unduly in return for a four year deal. Sign him.

Pluckfur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2008, 10:19 PM
  #27
frito
Registered User
 
frito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cincinnati
Country: United States
Posts: 1,067
vCash: 500
I mentioned it in a differetn thread that I am surprised how many people throw Hainsey's name in the ring before most for a trade. I think he is one of the guys we want to keep on the roster. He puts up the points for a defenseman and is among the best in the +/- category for the team. He must be doing a lot of things right. Why would we want to get rid of that or let that go?

frito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2008, 11:40 PM
  #28
LetsGOJackets!!
Registered User
 
LetsGOJackets!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 2,472
vCash: 500
I think Scott Howson signs Hainsey and Hedja

both to 3 or 4 year deals. Probably tries to sign Dick Tarnstrom as well for another year. This is the best group of dmen we have had by a long shot. Goals against is way down PK way up and that is good D and very good goal tending.

MacLean claimed to be building from the net out... but it was just talk. Adding Hedja & Dick Tarnstrom shows what a shrewd GM can do for us.

LetsGOJackets!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 08:08 AM
  #29
KeithBWhittington
Going North
 
KeithBWhittington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Brick by Brick
Country: Hungary
Posts: 10,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
both to 3 or 4 year deals. Probably tries to sign Dick Tarnstrom as well for another year. This is the best group of dmen we have had by a long shot. Goals against is way down PK way up and that is good D and very good goal tending.

MacLean claimed to be building from the net out... but it was just talk. Adding Hedja & Dick Tarnstrom shows what a shrewd GM can do for us.
Sure looked like MacLean was looking for the Home Run forward first... how many defensive players did he draft in the first round?

I think had he actually approached it by making smart trades to solidify and perhaps get more picks and use them on the back end, we may look a lot like the preds right now.

KeithBWhittington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 08:17 AM
  #30
Iron Balls McGinty
Registered User
 
Iron Balls McGinty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sec. 203/Worthington
Country: United States
Posts: 1,436
vCash: 500
He's 3rd in scoring on a team that has a horrible time scoring this year. Why are we even questioning resigning him?

I say keep him AND sign another scoring defenseman. If he leaves and we replace him with someone else,we are in the same boat. This team won't ever make the playoff if we only have 1 guy scoring from the blue line on a regular basis.

Iron Balls McGinty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 08:22 AM
  #31
CBJSlash
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Bus
Posts: 7,775
vCash: 500
Howson must obviously have other ideas about our blueline and Hainsey's value. Any adequate offensive defensemen who plays the point on the PP gets points.

So if I'm Howson I look at his 5 on 5 game, transition play, defensive play and ask if he is worth 3-4 million. I'm not so sure.

FTR Hainsey has 0 goals and 8 assists at even strength. That is not much better than any of our other defensemen. Actually that is less than Foote, Hejda, and Klesla at even strength. Hainsey isn't this offensive defensemen he is being pimped to be IMO, offensive d's score 5 on 5 and we do not have one.

He hasn't shown he is capable of being a PP QB, and remember who poor our PP has been most of the year. Much of that is the fault of our points.

CBJSlash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 08:51 AM
  #32
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pluckfur View Post
"Hollywood" nickname aside ... I repeat: Hainsey is a stand-up guy. I think he'll stay and that he won't press the money issue unduly in return for a four year deal. Sign him.
What the phrase you used on me? Bullroar?

I don't know if CBJ management wants to keep him, anymore then you know he wants to stay. Not to mention the money. He's worked to get his UFA tag. Perhaps you have a contact in regards to Hainsey. No idea.

All that speculation aside, I look at our defense and to fill in our gaps. I am not sure if Hainsey has the skill set to take us to the next level. We only have so many slots and things are starting to get crowded. I would really think a 4 year deal through. He's improved, but he's not that good.

In the end, word is we have quite a few stand-up guys. I'm not sure how much that really matters.

blahblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 09:48 AM
  #33
Xoggz22
Registered User
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 3,897
vCash: 500
I'm not sure how many will agree with me but in my opinion our defense is the weak link on the team. I know, I know...we don't score goals. My opinion is that is mainly because we can't move the puck through 5 players and that we still spend way too much time in our own zone. Can't get the puck out and when we do it's off the boards to the other team. Yes, I'm over generalizing but the fact is we have one of the wors transition games in the league.

So, Hainsey...I think he's decent at this. A good #4 d-man, maybe a 3 as he's continue to improve each year. He's coming into his prime, due a large pay raise and overall I think good for the CBJ. Note how the PP click when he has someone else on the back end to work with (Dickie T).

Since we seem to need an upgrade on D, who goes? As I read through the boards everyone (OK, not everyone but an awful lot - hopefully you all get the point) seems like the general faction wants to re-sign Foote, keep Hainsey, don't trade OKT, Methot or Russel, Rusty's coming on and still young and Hejda just can't go anywhere. Jury's out on Tarnstrom.

We can't keep them all if we want to improve as a team. Hejda and Hainsey are likely going to see large raises and if Foote is re-signed it won't be for less than $3.5M per year. I don't want the same D next year! Again, my personal opinion. If we intend to keep them all we stand the chance of not getting the Center we desire even through trade. We have a budget and a guy named Zherdev to re-sign next year.

So let's say we re-sign all three UFA's. Just a guess but this is what we go into 08-09 with. (admittedly I did not look up actual salaries for those already signed - my memory aint so great but I think it's close)

Foote - $4.0M
Hainsey - $3M
Hejda - $2.25M
Klesla - $1.5M
Russell - $550K
OKT - $600K (?)
Methot - $550K

Approximately $13M for the same group that couldn't move the puck this year. That's roughly 1/3 of the internal budget. What do we do? I don' think we can keep all three UFA's which means someone has to go.

Once the Foote domino falls (signed or not) I think we'll understand better what will happen with Hejda (similar type players - minus the leadership). I also think one of OKT or Methot becomes part of a package - maybe another D-man?

Ultimately this is a huge decision and I'd like to keep Hainsey but if it takes $3M/yr to re-sign him I just don't think it happens. I think 2 of the 3 UFA's are gone.

Not sure I really said anything here but thanks for listening.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 10:33 AM
  #34
Double-Shift Lassť
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassť's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Superurban Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 16,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
I'm not sure how many will agree with me but in my opinion our defense is the weak link on the team. I know, I know...we don't score goals. My opinion is that is mainly because we can't move the puck through 5 players and that we still spend way too much time in our own zone. Can't get the puck out and when we do it's off the boards to the other team. Yes, I'm over generalizing but the fact is we have one of the wors transition games in the league.

So, Hainsey...I think he's decent at this. A good #4 d-man, maybe a 3 as he's continue to improve each year. He's coming into his prime, due a large pay raise and overall I think good for the CBJ. Note how the PP click when he has someone else on the back end to work with (Dickie T).

Since we seem to need an upgrade on D, who goes? As I read through the boards everyone (OK, not everyone but an awful lot - hopefully you all get the point) seems like the general faction wants to re-sign Foote, keep Hainsey, don't trade OKT, Methot or Russel, Rusty's coming on and still young and Hejda just can't go anywhere. Jury's out on Tarnstrom.

We can't keep them all if we want to improve as a team. Hejda and Hainsey are likely going to see large raises and if Foote is re-signed it won't be for less than $3.5M per year. I don't want the same D next year! Again, my personal opinion. If we intend to keep them all we stand the chance of not getting the Center we desire even through trade. We have a budget and a guy named Zherdev to re-sign next year.

So let's say we re-sign all three UFA's. Just a guess but this is what we go into 08-09 with. (admittedly I did not look up actual salaries for those already signed - my memory aint so great but I think it's close)

Foote - $4.0M
Hainsey - $3M
Hejda - $2.25M
Klesla - $1.5M
Russell - $550K
OKT - $600K (?)
Methot - $550K

Approximately $13M for the same group that couldn't move the puck this year. That's roughly 1/3 of the internal budget. What do we do? I don' think we can keep all three UFA's which means someone has to go.

Once the Foote domino falls (signed or not) I think we'll understand better what will happen with Hejda (similar type players - minus the leadership). I also think one of OKT or Methot becomes part of a package - maybe another D-man?

Ultimately this is a huge decision and I'd like to keep Hainsey but if it takes $3M/yr to re-sign him I just don't think it happens. I think 2 of the 3 UFA's are gone.

Not sure I really said anything here but thanks for listening.
This is really a great post, X. Plenty of "OMFG if we don't bring him back how stupid!!!!" and "Hainsey is teh suck!" posts to go around and generate the standard-issue "You're kidding, right?" replies. One like yours, while it may not claim to have easy answers, is much more worth reading.

__________________
"Every game, every point is a necessity." -- Ty Conklin, January 2007
"I'll have a chance to compete for the post of first issue. This is the most important thing." -- Sergei Bobrovsky, June 2012
Double-Shift Lassť is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 10:39 AM
  #35
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
I'm not sure how many will agree with me but in my opinion our defense is the weak link on the team. I know, I know...we don't score goals. My opinion is that is mainly because we can't move the puck through 5 players and that we still spend way too much time in our own zone. Can't get the puck out and when we do it's off the boards to the other team. Yes, I'm over generalizing but the fact is we have one of the wors transition games in the league.
I still don't think we move the puck out as a 5 man unit as well as Hitch would like, which looks like more of a product of the forwards. We still have too many forwards that aren't supporting the puck up the ice. Watching Detroit, that became even more obvious. I have asked if that's a partly a product of our offensive woes. The forwards are trying to get behind the defense for a break-away, instead of staying in the system (which by the way is something Feds takes to heart, support the D on the break-out).

Having said all that, I think we have hit about 90% of what we are going to get from Hainsey. His breakout passing isn't very effective and his puck handling is still questionable. He's better about getting the puck through, but still refuses to use the wrist shot as much as he should. His defensive game is where I think he's improved the most.

As I said before I don't really want to lock this guy up for 4 years, I see him as more of a stop-gap until we become a real team. We have a log jam and where we need him (or gap) he's not good enough, IMO.

blahblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 11:47 AM
  #36
Inquiring Minds
Registered User
 
Inquiring Minds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grandview, Ohio
Posts: 1,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
He's better about getting the puck through, but still refuses to use the wrist shot as much as he should. His defensive game is where I think he's improved the most.
I've noticed this the last few games, and was wanting to ask here about it.

On our power play, it seems that most of our guys catch the pass, set it on their stick, move it a little, set their feet, then wind up and blast a huge slap shot. I haven't timed it, but it feels like it takes a full second to 1.25 seconds to get off the shot.

In comparison some of our most successful opponents (O in particular comes to mind) will catch the pass and flick a wrister, almost in the same motion.

Is this a pure skill thing, or is it something that can be taught? Are there drills designed to improve how quickly you get a shot off?

Inquiring Minds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 11:53 AM
  #37
CBJSlash
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Bus
Posts: 7,775
vCash: 500
I think most of this discussion along with Kris Russell makes Hollywood expendable. Russell is by far the most skilled defensemen we have and after a year or two of beefing up we will have a monsterous shot from the point.

We need defensemen who can create offense 5 on 5. Russell is the only one. I wouldn't pay Hainsey the cash he is going to ask for because I think it could be used to improve the team in other ways.

CBJSlash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 11:54 AM
  #38
JACKETfan
Real Blue Jacketfan
 
JACKETfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Venice
Country: United States
Posts: 9,224
vCash: 500
Nice post Xogg.

Hainsey's $$$ value will be higher than we should pay, but upgrading would likely cost a bundle too. I remember Hitch saying about Shelley that "the minute you trade him you're back out looking for a guy just like him."

I still think Howson is waiting to see what happens with Footer and Sergei.

Related Observation:
I'm not impressed with where our Defensive Player development (Syracuse) has left us right now. Seems we should have more in the pipeline ready to step up now and next fall. Feel free to fill me in on who I'm missing, but I don't see the veteran depth we need, yet. (Yet another reason Howson really wants to sign Foote, and probably must sign Hainsey).

- Russ is really young, undersized, and a year or two away from being dependable.
- OKT seems to have topped out and it not what I would call dependable (yet).
- Methot, I know they were hot on him, but if that were true, they'd have brought him up instead of Tarnstrom.

JACKETfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 11:56 AM
  #39
CBJSlash
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Bus
Posts: 7,775
vCash: 500
Hainsey will the be the second desirable Jacket to leave after Whitney. We are growing up folks. Hainsey will continue to be a decent NHLer, just not at the price he is going to want.

CBJSlash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 12:00 PM
  #40
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
- OKT seems to have topped out and it not what I would call dependable (yet).
- Methot, I know they were hot on him, but if that were true, they'd have brought him up instead of Tarnstrom.
Hainsey hasn't even topped out, never mind OKT. What's OKT, like 15?

Methot is a different kind of player then Tarnstrom, flawed logic.

blahblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 12:09 PM
  #41
Macster
Registered User
 
Macster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Related Observation:
I'm not impressed with where our Defensive Player development (Syracuse) has left us right now. Seems we should have more in the pipeline ready to step up now and next fall. Feel free to fill me in on who I'm missing, but I don't see the veteran depth we need, yet. (Yet another reason Howson really wants to sign Foote, and probably must sign Hainsey).

- Russ is really young, undersized, and a year or two away from being dependable.
- OKT seems to have topped out and it not what I would call dependable (yet).
- Methot, I know they were hot on him, but if that were true, they'd have brought him up instead of Tarnstrom.
I don't agree with your Ole and Methot observations.

While Ole might have "topped out", that's not necessarily a bad thing. His style of play doesn't need a lot of refinement, it's basic positional hockey and using your body. The thing that will make Ole better is time. Over time, he'll gain experience and pick his spots better (i'm talking about dishing out big hits) and I think he has really improved in those areas over the course of this season.

As for Methot, I get the impression you think a defenseman is a defenseman. The team is in fact hot on him, but they want him to be a dependable rock on the back end, hitting guys, clearing the crease, and shutting down forwards. Tarnstrom was acquired because he is at his best when he has the puck. Our PP needed a shot in the arm, hence the trade for a PP specialist like Tarnstrom.

Methot is not a solution to PP troubles.

Macster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 12:33 PM
  #42
Ludicrous Speed
Registered User
 
Ludicrous Speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Killumbus
Country: Micronesia
Posts: 10,924
vCash: 500
This past off-season Howson signed "bargain players" by the names of Hejda and Novotny. Well Hainsey is expected a pretty big raise but that would still be 1/2 the salary of Brian Campbell and Wade Redden, two UFA's someone mentioned earlier. All 3 players have roughly the same amount of points. Someone said this before kinda, but think about this. Hainsey is no question a "bargain" for having 1/2 the salary, similar point production. IMO he'll be the biggest "bargain" out there.

Ludicrous Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 12:38 PM
  #43
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitbasketer743 View Post
This past off-season Howson signed "bargain players" by the names of Hejda and Novotny. Well Hainsey is expected a pretty big raise but that would still be 1/2 the salary of Brian Campbell and Wade Redden, two UFA's someone mentioned earlier. All 3 players have roughly the same amount of points. Someone said this before kinda, but think about this. Hainsey is no question a "bargain" for having 1/2 the salary, similar point production. IMO he'll be the biggest "bargain" out there.
Not sold on Redden, however he would be a large upgrade. But Jackman .vs. Hainsey? There's a reason Jackman is going to be sought after. Hainsey's not playing in that league.

blahblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 01:05 PM
  #44
CBJ 97 61 16
Registered User
 
CBJ 97 61 16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitbasketer743 View Post
This past off-season Howson signed "bargain players" by the names of Hejda and Novotny. Well Hainsey is expected a pretty big raise but that would still be 1/2 the salary of Brian Campbell and Wade Redden, two UFA's someone mentioned earlier. All 3 players have roughly the same amount of points. Someone said this before kinda, but think about this. Hainsey is no question a "bargain" for having 1/2 the salary, similar point production. IMO he'll be the biggest "bargain" out there.
Hainsey may be a bargain because he's draw 1/2 the salary, but 4 Mil is 4 Mil. I don't know if Hainsey is going to get the type of minutes he's seeing this year because of the development of Russell. I think, if Foote and Hejda both come back, they will still be the first pairing, and then Russell and Klesla will be the second pairing. Would you want a $4 million defenseman getting 3rd pairing minutes? I think you're going to be able to get Tarnstrom cheaper than Hainsey, and I would feel much better paying less for a Tarnstrom who will draw 3rd pairing minutes and still be productive, assuming again that Tarnstrom plays as well as he has been.

CBJ 97 61 16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 01:56 PM
  #45
Byrral
Registered User
 
Byrral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 3,030
vCash: 500
On the mains it is rumored that the Rags just re-signed Fedor Tyutin for 4 years and $11.4 million, an average of $2.85 mil per year. Career stats - 228gm 14g 46a 60p -14, Hainsey 224gm 19g 62a 81p -2. Pretty comparable. Hainsey is 2 years older.

Byrral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 02:09 PM
  #46
Goaliemon89
CBJ's Future CFO
 
Goaliemon89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cleveland, OH
Country: United States
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Goaliemon89 Send a message via AIM to Goaliemon89 Send a message via MSN to Goaliemon89 Send a message via Yahoo to Goaliemon89
Speaking of Hainsey, there is a nice interview with him on CBJ TV.

Goaliemon89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 02:23 PM
  #47
CBJSlash
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Bus
Posts: 7,775
vCash: 500
3 million is a lot of dough. Does Howson view Hainsey as a top 4 d-man? That is the question.

Klesla is the only for sure top 4 guy in my opinion. Ideally Hejda would be a 5-6 guy.

If we resign Foote he is a top 4 guy. Russell, Methot, Tollefson not yet.

I don't like Hejda as much as most on this board, but on a good team I don't think he is a top 4 guy.

If we resign Foote and Hainsey we will have basically the same defense next couple year with cash tied up and we all know our defense is lacking. I like Foote and his leadership, but I think you can find leadership for cheap. I'd rather spend money on Barret Jackman than Foote and Hainsey at this point.

I think with Foote we are walking that fine line with injury risk.

Jason Smith, Mike Commodore are a couple UFA names that would interest me.

CBJSlash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 03:53 PM
  #48
JACKETfan
Real Blue Jacketfan
 
JACKETfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Venice
Country: United States
Posts: 9,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macster View Post
I don't agree with your Ole and Methot observations.

While Ole might have "topped out", that's not necessarily a bad thing. His style of play doesn't need a lot of refinement, it's basic positional hockey and using your body. The thing that will make Ole better is time. Over time, he'll gain experience and pick his spots better (i'm talking about dishing out big hits) and I think he has really improved in those areas over the course of this season.

As for Methot, I get the impression you think a defenseman is a defenseman. The team is in fact hot on him, but they want him to be a dependable rock on the back end, hitting guys, clearing the crease, and shutting down forwards. Tarnstrom was acquired because he is at his best when he has the puck. Our PP needed a shot in the arm, hence the trade for a PP specialist like Tarnstrom.

Methot is not a solution to PP troubles.

The question I was addressing was what to do in the hypothetical absence of Footer and/or Hainsey. I have no problem with EITHER OKT or Methot being another year or two away. But at this point, they don't fill the need should we lose one or two veteran Dmen. Not if we want to get better.

For the sake of discussion....If OKT has "topped out" then it's a bad thing because he isn't good enough "as is" IMO. He still plays like a prospect. He reminds me of where Hainsey was two years ago, --unrealized and unknown potential. I'd keep him another year.

As far as Methot goes, the point is he's not ready. Were he ready, he'd be here. And because he's not here now proving his stuff, it would be IFFY to depend on him to replace Hainsey next year.

JACKETfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 03:54 PM
  #49
Pluckfur
Registered User
 
Pluckfur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 7,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
What the phrase you used on me? Bullroar?

I don't know if CBJ management wants to keep him, anymore then you know he wants to stay. Not to mention the money. He's worked to get his UFA tag. Perhaps you have a contact in regards to Hainsey. No idea.

All that speculation aside, I look at our defense and to fill in our gaps. I am not sure if Hainsey has the skill set to take us to the next level. We only have so many slots and things are starting to get crowded. I would really think a 4 year deal through. He's improved, but he's not that good.

In the end, word is we have quite a few stand-up guys. I'm not sure how much that really matters.
You shouldn't use colloquialisms that you are unfamiliar with. "Bullroar!" demands some declarative speech and a countervailing idea, blahblah. Not the simpering and weak assertions "I don't know..." "Perhaps..." "I am not sure..." "I would really think..." and yet another "I'm not sure..." .

If you were trying to disagree with my opinion (which you try and do habitually) you've failed once again.

Pluckfur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2008, 05:26 PM
  #50
cpmCBJ
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 418
vCash: 500
it all depends on how much he wants, obviously. his defense is average at best and a lot of assists are 2nd assists...plus he constantly shoots it into the player in front of him, heh.

cpmCBJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.