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Hey GuyF, can we get an update on Rita?

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01-30-2004, 05:20 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Dawgbone,

I agree with you that Rita is not going to be an offensive saviour. There's no doubt that his offensive skills are simply not as good as advertised. I believe he telegraphs his shot too much, and that's why he may not be a big scorer in the NHL.

However, I cannot understand where this myth comes from that Rita is good defensivly. Where? How? When did this happen? Last I checked he was still terrible defensivly. And I just saw like, 4 road runners games this month! Rita is NOT very good defensivly, in fact I'd say he's still well below average.

If you want to look at a player who can come in, energize the team, score a few goals, and bring good work ethic and maybe even some defensive play, ignore Rita. He won't bring that. Call up SALMELAINNEN . I've seen that kid play too long in Edmonton. He is NHL ready right now. Very, very nice little player. Dump off Brad Isbister at the nearest street corner and play Salmelainnen.
As someone who has watched a heck of a lot more roadrunner and bulldogs games than you have, trust me, he is good defensively when he is in the game... which is really the issue here. When he is off, his whole game is in the crapper, but even on some of his bad days he is at least trying defensively.

He is very strong, pretty quick and good positionally. Granted, he does have off games, but is still ahead of the curve defensively, especially considering he is only 22. He is usually on the ice against top lines, kills penalties...

He does have all the tools to at least be a standout 3rd line NHLer... if he could only bring it night in and night out....

As for Salmo, I agree... but unfortunately he doesn't have the strength to be able to play in the NHL on a fulltime basis... plus he has terrible hands (mind you he should fit right in here in Edmonton).

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01-30-2004, 05:23 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xauxi
I am putting some of my cheap opinion here regarding to Rita. I am sure that all of you know that each player is different than the others. They do not have to be the same as the other. Each of them is unique. The coach is like a teacher, who should know what the strong and weak aspects of his players/students in order to help them excel. If a coach try to mold a player into his own way (overcoach), I am affraid that the talents of the players would disappear (look at Hemsky, Brewer, Semenov, etc. for their inconsistency). The coach should know where to press in order to get the best out of each player in different way for different player. The young and talented players will learn over their mistakes. This is how Colorado, Detroit, Ottawa ... succeed in having young and productive players in their systems.
Rita may be so frustrated that he does not care any more. He will thrive somewhere else instead of being cursed by MacT. Till then...
Well seeing as Mac-T has had less to do with his progress and development than Claude Julien or Geoff Ward, you are barking up the wrong tree.

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01-30-2004, 05:31 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
So you'd rather take a guy who is inconsistent at a lower level, then guys who are inconsistent at the NHL level? Rita should be the best player in the AHL right now, and he isn't.

What does that say?
like you said, when Rita is on his game, he's the best player in the AHL....but when Pisani or Horcoff is on his game, is he the best player in the NHL?

Yes, I agree that Rita is not our saviour. I don't expect him to be. But I think if we gave him a chance he just might surprise. I don't see whats wrong with taking a small gamble. Look at Torres. We let him play with some decent linemates and now he's our top scorer.


Last edited by USC Trojans: 01-30-2004 at 05:34 PM.
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01-30-2004, 05:34 PM
  #29
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Ok....I am going to go out on a BIIIIIIIG limb here.

I would rather see an inconsistent, first round pick, screw up, make a great play, drive me nuts for 30 games and hope he matures into a player, rather than see Pisani or Horcoff every night. ESPECIALLY when we have been losing.

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01-30-2004, 05:39 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
God, some of you are so frigging clueless...

Mac-T doesn't like Rita because Rita doesn't play the way Mac-T used to?

I'm sorry, but that is the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Why?

Because Rita is exactly the kind of player Mac-T loves. He is physical, strong, very solid defensively, and can put the puck in the net. It isn't that Rita doesn't play Mac-T's style, it's that he doesn't do it every night (at the AHL level anyways).

Rita's game isn't his problem, and it isn't why he is not in the NHL. It's the fact that Rita only plays his game on 11 nights out of 20. Rita is exactly the kind of player Mac-T would use regularly every night, if Rita were able to bring it every night.

This is how you handle someone with consistency issues. They need to prove to you, and themselves that they can bring it every night. If he has a crappy practice, pressbox time. If he has 3 shifts and he is hurting the team, sit him. Conversly, if the guy is busting his butt going all out at practice, he plays. And if he plays well his first 3 shifts, you keep putting him out there. You reward when he is fulfilling what you need out of him, and you penalize him when he isn't doing the things you ask.
If this is how MacT handles inconsistency, explain to my why half the Oilers roster hasn't been benched....

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01-30-2004, 05:40 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Ok....I am going to go out on a BIIIIIIIG limb here.

I would rather see an inconsistent, first round pick, screw up, make a great play, drive me nuts for 30 games and hope he matures into a player, rather than see Pisani or Horcoff every night. ESPECIALLY when we have been losing.
Amen Brother, Amen!

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01-30-2004, 05:41 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petelars
What does the organisation think of him? I'm not asking for the official party line (as in comments on pre/post-game interviews), I'm asking about all those off-hand one-liners that guys like Pendergast must make on the topic.

Is this the last shot for the kid, or do they expect him to get return flights to and from Toronto for a while longer?
It sounded pretty clear from MacT yesterday that this was Rita's last chance in his mind: "Well times running out for him and the organization as well in terms of us having to give him a shot, having to give him a look. You have to make sure that they’re deserving of it in the way they play and apparently his presence here is proof that the organization feels that he’s deserving of a shot. We’ve got to make a decision on him and he’s seemingly been at the same stage at this point the last couple or three years and we keep expecting him to progress to the point that he’s established himself as an NHL player and this is the first step to that."


But to me it sounded like Lowe recognized the fact that Rita has only played 13 games in the NHL so far and needs much more than that before anything can be decided. (LOWE) "He’s a guy that the organization believes has a lot of ability and hasn’t been given the opportunity but a lot of players, like Jason Chimera, it took him a few years before he got full time opportunity and Rita’s going to get that opportunity."


So I think we should expect to see Rita get a fair shake this time up. K.P. said Rita has been playing better this year and has made strides in the areas he was weak on in camp. Sounds to me like most of the organization is still high on him but that could be PR work too remember.

Guy

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01-30-2004, 05:42 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
like you said, when Rita is on his game, he's the best player in the AHL....but when Pisani or Horcoff is on his game, is he the best player in the NHL?
No, but I'm pretty certain that they would be pretty darn close to being the best players in the AHL... I don't understand this comparison what so ever.

Quote:
Yes, I agree that Rita is not our saviour. I don't expect him to be. But I think if we gave him a chance he just might surprise. I don't see whats wrong with taking a small gamble. Look at Torres. We let him play with some decent linemates and now he's our top scorer.
Torres has also proven what he is capable night after night in the AHL... yes, Rita might suprise. Or he might struggle for 10 games, then everyone wants him gone, and he is another 1st round bust for the Oilers, which isn't fair to him or the organization.

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01-30-2004, 05:43 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Rita isn't a 30 goal scorer. He doesn't change the complexion of a game with one shift. He isn't a game breaker who will be invisible all game then suddenly take it over.
He sure isn't going to turn into a 30 goal scorer with 5 minutes of ice time with Pisani and Moreau, thats for sure.
Everything I've heard about Rita indicates that this potential just might be buried in there somewhere, but no one in Oiler head office seems too eager to find out. I guess we have enough 30 goal gamebreakers and not enough consistently low-scoring checkers on the team.

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01-30-2004, 05:45 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Ok....I am going to go out on a BIIIIIIIG limb here.

I would rather see an inconsistent, first round pick, screw up, make a great play, drive me nuts for 30 games and hope he matures into a player, rather than see Pisani or Horcoff every night. ESPECIALLY when we have been losing.
wow, that is a BIIIIIIIG limb.
But I think I'm with you on this...a good reason why people enjoy following their favorite sports franchises is because they want to see some of their youngsters play, cause its the future of their franchise. I know for me the most exciting part of the season (besides the playoffs) is the draft, and it really sucks to see our 1st round picks not getting a fair shot at a roster spot and being stuck behind fringer players that'll probably never improve beyond their current level.

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01-30-2004, 05:47 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
At 22 Jason Chimera was very consisten at the AHL level. Every night he brought the same game, which was a combination of physical play and speed. While he didn't necessarily score every night, he at least made contributions in other ways. When Rita is off, he is off.

Did you watch Semenov in the AHL? I doubt it very much. He had struggles early on, but turned his game around and played very well, which is why he got called up. It's one thing to lose your focus at the AHL level when you have nothing more to learn there, and when you are unchallenged, but that isn't the case for Rita.

Rita isn't going to be an offensive saviour guys... some of you need that drilled into your skulls. At the top of his game, Rita is ethan moreau with significantly better hands. This isn't Hemsky where you will live with inconsistencies because of the fact that he can change a game with one move.
The difference is Semenov never went on a huge tear in the AHL....and never got called up.
The difference is Semenov was not one of the better players in camp....and was sent back down
The difference is Semenov had a prolonged stay in the NHL last year....so that he could prove he belonged

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01-30-2004, 05:50 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Ok....I am going to go out on a BIIIIIIIG limb here.

I would rather see an inconsistent, first round pick, screw up, make a great play, drive me nuts for 30 games and hope he matures into a player, rather than see Pisani or Horcoff every night. ESPECIALLY when we have been losing.
You say that now, but if it were to happen, and Rita didn't do well and ended up being sent somewhere else, then developing and becoming an NHL player... would you have the same thinking?

I doubt it. There is nothing wrong with giving him a chance when he deserves it... I personally don't think he has.

It's a lose lose situation... Rita hasn't shown enough at the AHL level to really warrant a shot at the NHL, but the Org. is getting to the point where they have to make a decision on him.

If he plays great in a 20 game stretch, they pretty much need to give him a one way deal and he plays in Edmonton next year. But if next year he struggles, everyone complains that he was given a one-way deal (much like Pisani and Chimera).

If he has a bad stretch, then what? If you expose him on waivers, he will get picked up, and if he plays well everyone will be wondering how Lowe could let him go for nothing, and how management was careless and never gave him a shot.

I really don't see how this works out for the Oilers... Rita never really forced their hand with his play to make them call him up.

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01-30-2004, 05:50 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
No, but I'm pretty certain that they would be pretty darn close to being the best players in the AHL... I don't understand this comparison what so ever.

Torres has also proven what he is capable night after night in the AHL... yes, Rita might suprise. Or he might struggle for 10 games, then everyone wants him gone, and he is another 1st round bust for the Oilers, which isn't fair to him or the organization.
Well, if Rita's ON game is one of the best in the AHL, and Pisani's ON game is one of the best in the AHL, they're pretty even then right? ah well...its just a matter of opinion so I'll just leave it at that.

Even if Rita is a bust, I'd be able to move on...cause we gave him a chance here. We would've had a chance to evaluate his performance and understand why he couldn't mix it in the NHL. But if we never gave him a chance, and he lights it up on some other team, then I wouldn't be able to live it down. I don't want this to turn into another Satan situation.

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01-30-2004, 05:56 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
The difference is Semenov never went on a huge tear in the AHL....and never got called up.
The difference is Semenov was not one of the better players in camp....and was sent back down
The difference is Semenov had a prolonged stay in the NHL last year....so that he could prove he belonged
Define a huge tear...

Offensively? No... but after about the 15 game mark he was a monster in his own end, and had progressed leaps and bounds from his 1st game in the AHL to his 90th, which is what warranted his callup. Semenov got an extended callup because every game he played in he proved he belonged.

That is my problem with Rita... he hasn't shown, at least not me anyways, that he can do that last, but very important step.

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01-30-2004, 06:01 PM
  #40
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i personally think that Rita got called up to play if Smyth was to be used at centre. Semenov was also not hugely consistent in the AHL but he stuck when he was here, with some players you really have to throw them in the deep end, perhaps Rita gets a 2 year two way contract this year, is that possible?

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01-30-2004, 06:04 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Well, if Rita's ON game is one of the best in the AHL, and Pisani's ON game is one of the best in the AHL, they're pretty even then right? ah well...its just a matter of opinion so I'll just leave it at that.
Yes... except the big difference, which was the whole point of this, is the consistency issue.

Quote:
Even if Rita is a bust, I'd be able to move on...cause we gave him a chance here. We would've had a chance to evaluate his performance and understand why he couldn't mix it in the NHL. But if we never gave him a chance, and he lights it up on some other team, then I wouldn't be able to live it down. I don't want this to turn into another Satan situation.
I mentioned this already, but if this 20 game stint doesn't work, and he is let go only to be picked up elsewhere and succeed, would you really be able to move on? It's now become all or nothing, as Rita hasn't given the Oilers enough to warrant a major look before now, and it's 11:30 Cinderella with midnight just around the corner.

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01-30-2004, 06:06 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
i personally think that Rita got called up to play if Smyth was to be used at centre. Semenov was also not hugely consistent in the AHL but he stuck when he was here, with some players you really have to throw them in the deep end, perhaps Rita gets a 2 year two way contract this year, is that possible?
I'll disagree with you there... I though Semi was very consistent...

Mind you he seems to go through this 10 game funk every year (at all levels) where he seems completely lost out there (much like earlier in the season).

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01-30-2004, 06:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
I really don't see how this works out for the Oilers... Rita never really forced their hand with his play to make them call him up.
It works out for the Oilers if Rita realizes his potential and also realizes he's playing for a contract here. That's the only way it does.

Prendergast himself has said Rita's play has improved this year, and he has at least made an effort to improve on his deficiencies from training camp...since this season's a hair away from being in the crapper as it is, and as you (and others) have said, the org needs to make a decision on him now...why NOT bring him up at this point?

He's had around 180 games in the minors, it's time to give him a shot or let him find his mojo somewhere else. As a GM, if your first rounder's going to be a career AHLer...have him do it on someone else's team.

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01-30-2004, 06:14 PM
  #44
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well i wont argue about Semi's consistency since you saw him yourself. It's just that at the time he had turned it around but not playing awesome and was the only callup available at the time coz the oilers neeeded the d-man. So for me in a way Semenov wasn't given his shot as a stint but rather got a chance and he took it with his own hands.

I feel that Rita should be provided that chance coz if he's floundering then maybe he just needs a taste of the good stuff to keep his interest up.

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01-30-2004, 06:16 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
As someone who has watched a heck of a lot more roadrunner and bulldogs games than you have, trust me, he is good defensively when he is in the game... which is really the issue here. When he is off, his whole game is in the crapper, but even on some of his bad days he is at least trying defensively.

He is very strong, pretty quick and good positionally. Granted, he does have off games, but is still ahead of the curve defensively, especially considering he is only 22. He is usually on the ice against top lines, kills penalties...

He does have all the tools to at least be a standout 3rd line NHLer... if he could only bring it night in and night out....

As for Salmo, I agree... but unfortunately he doesn't have the strength to be able to play in the NHL on a fulltime basis... plus he has terrible hands (mind you he should fit right in here in Edmonton).
It seems like you watch a different player.

All in all, I must have seen Jani Rita play at least 20, maybe nearly 30 times over the course of his career. Between the WJC tournament, the Bulldogs, the Roadrunners, the Oilers. Not once have I seen him have a good game defensivly. I've seen some where he didn't have to make any defensive plays, but it seems whenever the other team scores and he's on the ice, it's his fault.

I agree he's fine positionally, but he's lazy. He lets guys skate in for the extra man on an odd man rush when if he kept his feet moving, the goal could never have happened.

Hell, I remember a Bulldog's season ticket holder on the Prospects board last year saying that Rita was just inept in his own zone. I've seen about 6 Roadrunners games this year that didn't show he was any better (except 1, where he really didn't have to play defense, it was a blowout). If he is good defensivly in all the games I haven't seen, he's awfully inconsistant. And the mark of a good defensive player is consistancy.

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01-30-2004, 06:25 PM
  #46
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It comes down to what is the worst that can happen if we give all Horcoffs icetime to Rita? Seriously? Whats the worst can happen? At the VERY LEAST we finally we see what we have in Rita

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01-30-2004, 06:42 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Semenov got an extended callup because every game he played in he proved he belonged.

That is my problem with Rita... he hasn't shown, at least not me anyways, that he can do that last, but very important step.
I guess I think he's never been afforded that last, but very huge step. I think in Rita's brief NHL career he HAS proved he belonged, 3 goals, 1 assist in 12 games (0.33 pts/game) with poor icetime & linemates. Who else on the team has proved that type of offensive skill?
1. Pisani - 6 goals, 8 assists in 46 games (0.3 pts/game)
2. Chimera - 3 goals, 2 assists in 38 games (0.13 pts/game)
3. Horcoff - 8 goals, 13 assists in 51 games (0.41 pts/game)

Whats the Oilers biggest problem this season? Goal scoring. So they let a player that has proven offensive ability (as proven as you can get with 12 games) rot in the minors. It jsut doesn't make sense

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01-30-2004, 06:44 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
It comes down to what is the worst that can happen if we give all Horcoffs icetime to Rita? Seriously? Whats the worst can happen? At the VERY LEAST we finally we see what we have in Rita
Gee... I dunno, maybe the fact that would leave us with a total of 1 centre on the team who isn't a rookie.

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01-30-2004, 06:52 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
I guess I think he's never been afforded that last, but very huge step. I think in Rita's brief NHL career he HAS proved he belonged, 3 goals, 1 assist in 12 games (0.33 pts/game) with poor icetime & linemates. Who else on the team has proved that type of offensive skill?
1. Pisani - 6 goals, 8 assists in 46 games (0.3 pts/game)
2. Chimera - 3 goals, 2 assists in 38 games (0.13 pts/game)
3. Horcoff - 8 goals, 13 assists in 51 games (0.41 pts/game)

Whats the Oilers biggest problem this season? Goal scoring. So they let a player that has proven offensive ability (as proven as you can get with 12 games) rot in the minors. It jsut doesn't make sense
Where is this proven offensive ability? Chimera lead the team in goals/minutes played last year, does it make him proven?

You can look at his 13 NHL games and think he is a proven NHL player, but I look at his 180 AHL games, and I haven't seen the same thing.

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01-30-2004, 07:04 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Gee... I dunno, maybe the fact that would leave us with a total of 1 centre on the team who isn't a rookie.
and standings-wise.....that makes a huge difference?

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