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Eventual Hall of Famers? How close?

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Old
02-19-2008, 11:46 PM
  #1
Big Phil
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Eventual Hall of Famers? How close?

Simply put do you think these guys deserve the Hall of Fame?

Steve Larmer - His name brings up an interesting debate. People dont like to talk bad about Larmer, nor should they because everyone and their mother would want a guy like him on their team. That's good news. When you look at his career nothing jumps out at you other than the 884 straight games that ended with a contract holdout. Other than that he's just good in every other category. He won the Calder in '83. He had his biggest years of 101, 90, 90, 89, 87, 86, 84 points. He had 40+ goals 5 times. Had 1012 points in 1006 games. Had 131 points in 140 playoff games. Won a Cup. Won a Canada Cup. Scored the winner in the '91 Canada Cup final. That being said is that enough to get him in? He was only top 10 in scoring once. And despite playing the RW position he never garnered an all-star team vote (although in '91 he was arguably all around as good as Neely). IMO he falls short and you really wish he wouldnt

Ed Belfour - Stats wise he's a lock. You cant get around his numbers. But my thinking here is that his off-ice troubles will end up costing him at least a first ballot entry in the end. 484-320-175 is his record with 76 shutouts. He was a Vezina winner in '91 and '93 and a 2nd team all-star in '95 while being named to the first team in '91 and '93. That right there is a recipe for a Hall of Famer and if you throw in his Cup in '99 he's a virtual lock. Led the league in shutouts 4 times. Keep in min until his Cup in '99 Belfour had a choker label bestowed upon him. Imagine what Thornton goes through now, it was the same in Belfour's earlt Chicago days. He was dominant in the regular season only to flop come playoff time and he had some realy downers early on. Now will his arrests affect his induction? He put a security guard in a headlock a few years back and he just looked awful in his arrest last year. IMO he's above being a marginal guy. If he was more along the lines of Fleury than I can see the HHOF not putting him in. But IMO he's a more legit Hall of Famer than Fleury and it would be harder to not see him in there. I think he belongs but do some of you think he has a long wait?

Chico Resch - Believe it or not he was a 2nd team all-star in '76 and '79. Was the goalie responsible for helping the '75 Islanders comes back from 3-0 and was named to the '76 Canada Cup team. He had some pretty good seasons and before the Isles won the Cup he was getting more playing time than Billy Smith. After his Cup win in '80 (despite Smith being the starter) he was shipped off and ended up playing for some of the worst teams in NHL history with Colorado and especially New Jersey. This I think hurt Resch's legacy a bit. He ended up with a 231-224 record. He's still only 32 when he's traded and had a lot of gas left in him but the end of his career was disastrous and the Devils were perrenial losers than. I think if you did a vote in 1980 as to whether or not he would be a future Hall of Famer he would win. Unfortunately he isnt one, and probably shouldnt be either, but its close.

John Vanbiesbrouck - Career record of 374-346-119. Not bad but man did he ever lose a lot of games. For a goalie of his caliber only Gump Worlsey lost more. But Gumper won 4 Cups and prior to that was on some of the most consistently terrible Ranger teams which aided his rotten record. Beezer was never really on a Cup contender but he also wasnt on a team that was going to draft 1st overall either. Despite that he was still a Vezina winner in '86, a first team all-star in '86 and a 2nd team in '94. That isnt bad credentials until you look deeper. He wa never a good playoff goalie minus one year in '96. His career record is 28-38. It's one thing for Hall or Esposito to have that kind of postseason record but Beezer just didnt do enough in the regular season to be forgiven. Plus NYR won the Cup the year after he left. And Philly made a grave error in '98 signing him and not Cujo thus giving Philly a goaltending crisis. Look at the '99 playoffs as well. The number shouldnt fool you, he let in some brutal untimely soft goals to the Leafs. Toronto was the highest scoring team in the league but that still wasnt an excuse for how he routinely allowed weak backhanders to go in all series. His career is borderline at best. Plus the whole Trevor Daley "slur" has hurt him a bit even though it shouldnt because that was way too much of a knee jerk reaction by the OHL. Still though he's not a HHOFer

Kevin Lowe - Somehow he gets brought up in the Hall talk. I dont get it. I love his 6 Cups but is there anything else that's worth mentioning in Lowe's career that's Hall material? Not really. His being on the '84 Canada Cup team was nice even if it was picked by Glen Sather. And back then he had his biggest offensive season of 46 points. But he wasnt a dominating defenseman. He needed to be a guy that got 60 points every year to e considered. It's not that he wasnt solid, but Adam Foote is solid. Would you induct Foote? No, and that's pretty much Lowe in a nutshell just with more Cups

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02-20-2008, 12:30 AM
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As you say, Belfour is in, and there's really no two ways about it. He put up a number of GREAT playoff performances in the second half of his career, and you can't ignore a guy who's second in wins all-time.

He's a much, much better candidate than anyone else mentioned. I wouldn't consider putting any of the others in.


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02-20-2008, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Simply put do you think these guys deserve the Hall of Fame?


John Vanbiesbrouck - Career record of 374-346-119. Not bad but man did he ever lose a lot of games. For a goalie of his caliber only Gump Worlsey lost more. But Gumper won 4 Cups and prior to that was on some of the most consistently terrible Ranger teams which aided his rotten record. Beezer was never really on a Cup contender but he also wasnt on a team that was going to draft 1st overall either. Despite that he was still a Vezina winner in '86, a first team all-star in '86 and a 2nd team in '94. That isnt bad credentials until you look deeper. He wa never a good playoff goalie minus one year in '96. His career record is 28-38. It's one thing for Hall or Esposito to have that kind of postseason record but Beezer just didnt do enough in the regular season to be forgiven. Plus NYR won the Cup the year after he left. And Philly made a grave error in '98 signing him and not Cujo thus giving Philly a goaltending crisis. Look at the '99 playoffs as well. The number shouldnt fool you, he let in some brutal untimely soft goals to the Leafs. Toronto was the highest scoring team in the league but that still wasnt an excuse for how he routinely allowed weak backhanders to go in all series. His career is borderline at best. Plus the whole Trevor Daley "slur" has hurt him a bit even though it shouldnt because that was way too much of a knee jerk reaction by the OHL. Still though he's not a HHOFer
I went from admiring the well thought out, presented nature of this post to shaking my head and thinking how sad it was that such a stupid line would mess up the whole thing. Daley was still pretty much a child when beezer went on his "little rant" of course you not being of daley's color I'm not shocked that you'd fail to see how much of a shock it'd be for a child to realize that an adult with such an imprtant role in his life was repeatedly insulting his very being. Beezer himself confessed that this was not the first time he'd done such. No less a personality that BOBBY ORR expressed his utter disgust with beezer (thank god for number 4 who will always have my respect for the way he helped trevor handle the situation with class) as much as those of a "fairer" color can trumpet about how players like barry bonds or oj simpson don't deserve the hall of fame in their sports, vanbiesbrock on this single disgusting act alone should never even be considered. The OHL was overreacting? what kind of message would their inaction send? As "cool" as junior hockey is, they're dealing with CHILDREN. What should they say? that acts like george laraque being pelted with bananas is okay? teddy nolan being moked with "indian" chants? overreacting? There really should be a rule that if you arent' a racial minority or a woman you should just shut the **** up and not comment on a situation like that

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02-20-2008, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
I went from admiring the well thought out, presented nature of this post to shaking my head and thinking how sad it was that such a stupid line would mess up the whole thing. Daley was still pretty much a child when beezer went on his "little rant" of course you not being of daley's color I'm not shocked that you'd fail to see how much of a shock it'd be for a child to realize that an adult with such an imprtant role in his life was repeatedly insulting his very being. Beezer himself confessed that this was not the first time he'd done such. No less a personality that BOBBY ORR expressed his utter disgust with beezer (thank god for number 4 who will always have my respect for the way he helped trevor handle the situation with class) as much as those of a "fairer" color can trumpet about how players like barry bonds or oj simpson don't deserve the hall of fame in their sports, vanbiesbrock on this single disgusting act alone should never even be considered. The OHL was overreacting? what kind of message would their inaction send? As "cool" as junior hockey is, they're dealing with CHILDREN. What should they say? that acts like george laraque being pelted with bananas is okay? teddy nolan being moked with "indian" chants? overreacting? There really should be a rule that if you arent' a racial minority or a woman you should just shut the **** up and not comment on a situation like that
Please, spare us your contrived rant. This is a thread about the man's ability as a hockey player, not a forum for you to vent about racism. What he said to Trevor Daley or how he feels about black people in general is irrelevant. He was a great player, one of my favorites, and I'd prefer to remember him for that. Furthermore, the last four sentences that you typed are utterly ridiculous. What does VanBiesbrouck have to do with Laraque or Nolan? Nothing. Don't make one man who made a silly comment out to be the devil, a man that you don't even personally know, I might add. The fact that you think only a minority or a woman has a right to have their voice heard is completely ignorant, just as much of any of the racist comments you alluded to.

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02-20-2008, 03:07 AM
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Belfour is in, but no to the rest. Resch and/or Beezer getting in would open a big can of worms that suddenly makes guys like Chris Osgood locks for the HHOF.

Chris Osgood
Season: 359-193-13 (66 ties) 2.43GAA .907SV% 47SO (654 games)
Playoff: 45-37 2.24GAA .910SV% 10SO (87 games)
2 Stanley Cups (1997, 1998)
2nd team all star (1996)
William Jennings Trophy (1996)
At least one 30 win season with 3 different teams (Detroit x4, Islanders, St. Louis)

Scary thing is, if he's the #1 in Detroit next season it's entirely possible that he could retire with more than 400 wins and even make a push for 450 since a Wings #1 is pretty much assured of 30+ wins every season barring injury. Even the backup can get 15-20 a season, and he's only 35 and not showing any signs of aging yet.

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02-20-2008, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Steve Larmer
Ed Belfour

Chico Resch

John Vanbiesbrouck

Kevin Lowe

Adam Foote
No. Yes. No. No. No. Maaaaaaaaybe.

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02-20-2008, 05:48 AM
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I won't talk about any defenseman pre-90 to be in the Hall before Mark Howe and JC Tremblay gets in.

Ed Belfour is the only one who should get in. Anything about his career say Hall of Fame. Wins, Vezina, Cup, Stolen Conn Smythe ... Played very well in any city he has gone (ya, except San Jose ).

Never understand why I'm not able to put him in my top-100 all-time. And I'm suppose to be a big fan of his

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02-20-2008, 08:00 AM
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Please, spare us your contrived rant. This is a thread about the man's ability as a hockey player, not a forum for you to vent about racism. What he said to Trevor Daley or how he feels about black people in general is irrelevant. He was a great player, one of my favorites, and I'd prefer to remember him for that. Furthermore, the last four sentences that you typed are utterly ridiculous. What does VanBiesbrouck have to do with Laraque or Nolan? Nothing. Don't make one man who made a silly comment out to be the devil, a man that you don't even personally know, I might add. The fact that you think only a minority or a woman has a right to have their voice heard is completely ignorant, just as much of any of the racist comments you alluded to.
It's not irrelevant when talking about his entry into the Hall.

For someone who is at best a borderline Hall of Famer, an event like this could act as the detraction that keeps him out.

Way to go from contrived to condescending faster than Johnny V. throws out racial slurs.

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02-20-2008, 08:34 AM
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It's not irrelevant when talking about his entry into the Hall.

For someone who is at best a borderline Hall of Famer, an event like this could act as the detraction that keeps him out.

Way to go from contrived to condescending faster than Johnny V. throws out racial slurs.
Very very true.

Anyways, the best person for the Hall is Mark Howe.

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02-20-2008, 08:40 AM
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Adam Oates. One of the most underrated player ever, 1420 points in 1337 games. I think hes got the third highest assist in a season (97) after Gretzky and Lemieux.

Dave Andreychuk: Stanley Cup captain. Most power play goals of all time. 4th in games played.

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02-20-2008, 09:58 AM
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I'd have a real hard time putting Dave Andreychuk in the HHOF without putting Dino Ciccarelli in. I think Dino was the better player.

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02-20-2008, 10:25 AM
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Adam Oates. One of the most underrated player ever, 1420 points in 1337 games. I think hes got the third highest assist in a season (97) after Gretzky and Lemieux.

Dave Andreychuk: Stanley Cup captain. Most power play goals of all time. 4th in games played.
Yes to Oates, no to Andreychuk in my books.

Longevity means something, but it shouldn't have large implications on entry to the Hall. Both the PPG and GP marks are based around health (which I would contend is due to his style of play, which wasn't exactly skill-based)

Andreychuk never had a 100 point season and played in some of the highest scoring seasons in the last 40 years. He finished it off with 8 or something seasons with less than 50 points.


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02-20-2008, 10:44 AM
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Yes to Larmer. Yes to Belfour. No to everyone else.

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02-20-2008, 11:33 AM
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Adam Oates. One of the most underrated player ever, 1420 points in 1337 games. I think hes got the third highest assist in a season (97) after Gretzky and Lemieux.

Dave Andreychuk: Stanley Cup captain. Most power play goals of all time. 4th in games played.
Oates has the 4th highest assist total in a season.

Orr had a 102 assist season in 70-71.

I wouldn't call Oates underrated. He is a lock for the HOF to most people.

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02-20-2008, 11:39 AM
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I went from admiring the well thought out, presented nature of this post to shaking my head and thinking how sad it was that such a stupid line would mess up the whole thing.
Yes it was wrong, no doubt. But everyone white person in the world would be lying if he hasnt said or thought "that" word. Every black, asian or any oter race has thought the same thing about the whites. Ever seen Crash? Good movie. Very true. Now does this make it right? No, and I was just pointing out that something like this will hurt his chances to get in there even though the incident was blown out of proportion. You dont think it was? If it got the the media it was handled the wrong way IMO. Beezer was wrong but Daley didnt have to be a suck about it either and leave his playoff team at PLAYOFF time. If Shayne Corson is villified for that why cant Daley be?

But that's another story the point is he most likely will never get in and is even further away because of that comment. Which doesnt seem fair. I mean he was forced to give up his ownership of SS Marie. That was going a bit too far

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02-20-2008, 11:42 AM
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Steve Larmer - I'd rate him similar to a Bobby Smith or a Rod Brind'amour. Good consistent career, fine all-around player, solid playoff contributor, won a Cup.....yet was never really a superstar, just very good. No.


Ed Belfour- Absolutely. I'd like to see somebody try to build a case against him. I don't think the arrests will hurt his chances, he's still very popular. It's nice somebody else remembers the "playoff choker" label he used to have. Even when Dallas finished #1 overall in `99, all the "experts" were saying they wouldn't get past Detroit or Colorado because Belfour couldn't deliver at playoff time. Two months later he's a "clutch performer". Makes me laugh everytime somebody today puts the same label on Thornton or Turco.Yes.

Chico Resch- One of my favourite players from the 70s. Fun goalie to watch, great reflexes. Like Cujo though, I'd put him just short. As mentioned he had a couple of years when he was in the elite class, but not so much for the whole career. The fact that his win/loss record deteriorated after getting traded from the Islanders to the Rockies proves that a goalies W/L record says more about the team than the goalie. Can't put him in when Rogie Vachon is out. No.


John Vanbiesbrouck- Don't see it. As Phil Esposito said in his autobiography when he was Ranger GM: "We'll never win in this town with Vanbiesbrouck". Other than the Florida run in `96, there's really nothing memorable here. Just a slightly-average goalie who racked up a lot of regular season wins due to a long career. Re the Trevor Daley incident: it may have been an over-reaction from the OHL, but it's hard for me to have any sympathy for somebody who could be that insensitive and stupid. Beezer dug his own grave there. No.

Kevin Lowe- Why? The only argument in his favour is the Cups, but there's really too much of a tendency to "pile on" when it comes to players from dynasties and their HHOF credentials. Are we going to put every Oiler from that team in the Hall? Yes, he was a good defensive defenceman who contributed and played his role on those teams, but he was hardly the reason they won. Was he really any better than Mike Ramsey or Brad McCrimmon? Not in my books. No.

Although he might get inducted as a builder due to his stellar career as a GM.


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Old
02-20-2008, 12:00 PM
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Belfour is a mortal lock. Period. Two Vezinas, a Cup win, a couple Cup final appearances, consistently one of the top five goalies on the planet for most of his career, and, I believe, a Hart finalist in 1991 = HHOF. Likely first ballot.

Among the guys eligible for the HHOF, but not in the HHOF, there might not be one I'd rather see in there more than Steve Larmer. I always loved his game. Loved his grit, his two-way play, he goal-scoring ability, and his character. Inside Hockey's Man of the Year in 1991. You could have made the case in 1991 that he was one of the top 10 players in the game. If there's a consistency HOF, Larmer's there. But outside of 1991, he was never a guy who ever really stood out. Never a guy who was a consensus elite player. That might tell you how underrated he was - the perfect linemate for Denis Savard. I'd really like to see Larmer inducted, but was he good enough? I don't think he was.

(Note to Phil: I don't think it was a contract dispute that ended his streak. I think he wanted out of Chicago, and it wasn't just about money. And his best wasn't as good as Neely's best. In Larmer's best season, 1991, Neely was the second-team all-star, and Larmer's best was nowhere near as good as what Neely demonstrated in the 1991 playoffs).

If there's a good guy's HOF, Chico Resch will be one of the first inductees. One of hockey's all-time great characters, and one of its finest human beings. But in the HHOF? No to Chico. Another guy who is a tough "no" for me.

Beezer's an interesting case, but as we've seen with guys like Rogie Vachon and even Lorne Chabot, goalie is the toughest position to crack the HHOF. Until Vachon is in, Beezer shouldn't be in, and the same goes for Joseph and Richter.

I used to think Lowe should get in. But I can't say now that he belongs. He was probably the Oilers' best blue-liner in 88 and 90. (Although Steve Smith was pretty good, too). He was a rock defensively. But the question needs to be asked about Lowe: was he ever a top 10 defenceman in the league? Even top 15? Good man. Great leader. Rock-solid defenceman. He did play in seven all-star games and a Canada Cup. But all-star game selections are irrelevant, and while the Canada Cup seems great, Randy Gregg, Normand Rochefort and Doug Crossman played in the Canada Cup, too. Perfect candidate for the Hall of Very Good, but not the HHOF.

And if the HHOF committee ever starts paying attention to international accolades, Adam Foote would become a very seriously debated candidate. Canada's best blue-liner at three best-on-bests: 1996 and 2004 World Cups, and the 2002 Olympics. (For my money, the best defenceman, period, at the 02 Olys and the 04 World Cup).

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02-20-2008, 12:51 PM
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Yes it was wrong, no doubt. But everyone white person in the world would be lying if he hasnt said or thought "that" word. Every black, asian or any oter race has thought the same thing about the whites. Ever seen Crash? Good movie. Very true. Now does this make it right? No, and I was just pointing out that something like this will hurt his chances to get in there even though the incident was blown out of proportion. You dont think it was? If it got the the media it was handled the wrong way IMO. Beezer was wrong but Daley didnt have to be a suck about it either and leave his playoff team at PLAYOFF time. If Shayne Corson is villified for that why cant Daley be?
Good grief! Are you seriously comparing Daley to Corson quitting on his team? A couple of differences: Shayne Corson was a jerk with very little character or ethics who quit on his team because of his ego. Daley from all accounts was a good kid who didn't volunteer or ask for this incident to happen. There's also the minor difference that Daley was a teenager receiving next to nothing in a junior league while Corson was a professional getting paid over a million dollars to play for his team.

If Daley "was a suck", then I guess Bobby Orr is one too since he was Daley's agent and advised him to leave the team. Put yourself in the kids shoes: he's in a place where everyone else is white and he finds out that his coach, the guy who is supposed to be the responsible authority figure, has been saying that about him in front of his teammates behind his back. Who is he supposed to turn to when the guy in charge is one causing the problem? I don't blame him one bit for leaving.

Slightly OT: the N-word dates back to the days of slavery. It's a very ugly mean insult that carries a lot of venom to the one on the receiving end. How is someone supposed to respond? There's no insults towards white people that cut as deeply as that. It's easy to say "he should've just ignored it or forgot about it" when you will never know what it feels like.

This is not to imply that John Vanbiesbrouck is or isn't a racist. Maybe he just used the word flippantly without realizing how harmful it was. Maybe he is truly remorseful about doing it. I'm not saying the man should be condemned. But he should've known better, and if the punishment seemed too harsh well....too bad. The league had a zero-tolerance policy towards racism. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. He had nobody to blame but himself.

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02-20-2008, 12:55 PM
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Good grief! Are you seriously comparing Daley to Corson quitting on his team? A couple of differences: Shayne Corson was a jerk with very little character or ethics who quit on his team because of his ego. Daley from all accounts was a good kid who didn't volunteer or ask for this incident to happen. There's also the minor difference that Daley was a teenager receiving next to nothing in a junior league while Corson was a professional getting paid over a million dollars to play for his team.

If Daley "was a suck", then I guess Bobby Orr is one too since he was Daley's agent and advised him to leave the team. Put yourself in the kids shoes: he's in a place where everyone else is white and he finds out that his coach, the guy who is supposed to be the responsible authority figure, has been saying that about him in front of his teammates behind his back. Who is he supposed to turn to when the guy in charge is one causing the problem? I don't blame him one bit for leaving.

Slightly OT: the N-word dates back to the days of slavery. It's a very ugly mean insult that carries a lot of venom to the one on the receiving end. How is someone supposed to respond? There's no insults towards white people that cut as deeply as that. It's easy to say "he should've just ignored it or forgot about it" when you will never know what it feels like.

This is not to imply that John Vanbiesbrouck is or isn't a racist. Maybe he just used the word flippantly without realizing how harmful it was. Maybe he is truly remorseful about doing it. I'm not saying the man should be condemned. But he should've known better, and if the punishment seemed too harsh well....too bad. The league had a zero-tolerance policy towards racism. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. He had nobody to blame but himself.

This is what I wanted to respond with, only this is way better.


Last edited by Gobias Industries: 02-20-2008 at 01:43 PM.
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02-20-2008, 02:37 PM
  #20
mattihp
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Yes to Larmer. Yes to Belfour. No to everyone else.
seconded!

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02-20-2008, 02:54 PM
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Good grief! Are you seriously comparing Daley to Corson quitting on his team? A couple of differences: Shayne Corson was a jerk with very little character or ethics who quit on his team because of his ego. Daley from all accounts was a good kid who didn't volunteer or ask for this incident to happen. There's also the minor difference that Daley was a teenager receiving next to nothing in a junior league while Corson was a professional getting paid over a million dollars to play for his team.

If Daley "was a suck", then I guess Bobby Orr is one too since he was Daley's agent and advised him to leave the team. Put yourself in the kids shoes: he's in a place where everyone else is white and he finds out that his coach, the guy who is supposed to be the responsible authority figure, has been saying that about him in front of his teammates behind his back. Who is he supposed to turn to when the guy in charge is one causing the problem? I don't blame him one bit for leaving.

Slightly OT: the N-word dates back to the days of slavery. It's a very ugly mean insult that carries a lot of venom to the one on the receiving end. How is someone supposed to respond? There's no insults towards white people that cut as deeply as that. It's easy to say "he should've just ignored it or forgot about it" when you will never know what it feels like.

This is not to imply that John Vanbiesbrouck is or isn't a racist. Maybe he just used the word flippantly without realizing how harmful it was. Maybe he is truly remorseful about doing it. I'm not saying the man should be condemned. But he should've known better, and if the punishment seemed too harsh well....too bad. The league had a zero-tolerance policy towards racism. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. He had nobody to blame but himself.
great post

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02-20-2008, 06:01 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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I mentioned this to somebody recently: If Lanny McDonald is in the HOF, why not Steve Larmer? Very similar careers. McDonald has the two 2nd team all-star selections, but Larmer's playoff resume is easily better than Lanny's. They both ended up getting a Cup late in their career, although clearly Larmer was a bigger factor in his team's victory. I'm not normally an advocate of putting this guy in because this guy's in. For example, despite the fact that Dick Duff is in, I'm not going to start saying that Esa Tikkanen should get inducted. But nobody really questions McDonald's induction, so I don't understand the reluctance to induct Larmer.

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02-20-2008, 06:54 PM
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I mentioned this to somebody recently: If Lanny McDonald is in the HOF, why not Steve Larmer? Very similar careers. McDonald has the two 2nd team all-star selections, but Larmer's playoff resume is easily better than Lanny's. They both ended up getting a Cup late in their career, although clearly Larmer was a bigger factor in his team's victory. I'm not normally an advocate of putting this guy in because this guy's in. For example, despite the fact that Dick Duff is in, I'm not going to start saying that Esa Tikkanen should get inducted. But nobody really questions McDonald's induction, so I don't understand the reluctance to induct Larmer.
Actually, I have seen tons of people question McDonald's entry into the Hall.

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02-20-2008, 09:45 PM
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Lanny's 'stache was inducted. They pretty much had to let Lanny go in with it.

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02-20-2008, 10:30 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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Actually, I have seen tons of people question McDonald's entry into the Hall.
I've seen people suggest he's in the bottom tier of HOFers, or a borderline selection, but I recall few, if any instances of people flatly suggesting he shouldn't have been inducted (not saying this isn't the case, I just haven't seen it). So I found it kind of unfair that it seems 90% are in favour of Lanny being in, while 90% are opposed to Larmer being in.

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