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Old
02-22-2008, 08:01 AM
  #76
JoeIsAStud
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Originally Posted by hubofhockey View Post
I think the deal to make for Kessel -- and one Bruins would entertain -- would be for a top pairing D-man, age 20-24. And, frankly, age probably has to be closer to 20, when you consider their value/cost (see: Phaneuf). In fact, they HAVE to do that kind of deal.
As for wrapping him in a Hossa-like deal (or Havlat)....that's a tougher decision. Not impossible, but unlikely, even for a signed Hossa. A current top-end contender would be more likely to bite on that kind of deal. Hossa is the player everyone wanted the Bruins to get in the late-'80s, when theywerejustthisclose from winning it.
Interesting, though, how emotion has shifted here (evolved) on the board, compared to when the issue of perhaps trading Kessel was raised here at the XMas break.

-hub

Hub, I hope Chiarelli is of the same mind as you. I'd probably have to make the deal if you can get a legitmate top pairing early 20s D-man.

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02-22-2008, 08:09 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by remer View Post
No its not a wash. Boston still lost this deal.
Boyes (1st round pick- leading scorer for the Blues) versus Wideman (7th round pick- #3 defenseman for the Bruins)
Winner- St. Louis Blues!
you just lost any little credibility you had left to me. Like it matters where they were drafted

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02-22-2008, 08:11 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by remer View Post
No its not a wash. Boston still lost this deal.
Boyes (1st round pick- leading scorer for the Blues) versus Wideman (7th round pick- #3 defenseman for the Bruins)
Winner- St. Louis Blues!
What the hell does their round have to do with this? You traded a reasonably soft, slow-footed small winger who can finish for a top 4 defenseman with limited speed who is also good with the puck.

Like it or not, forwards like Brad Boyes are a dime a dozen, and defensemen like Wideman are not. You can make arguments for either side winning in that deal, but clearly if your team doesn't have a defenseman with puck-handling skills, you're dead. Any team can live without a Brad Boyes.

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02-22-2008, 08:18 AM
  #79
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Complaint about this thread...

Why is everybody framing this debate in the wrong context? Peter Chiarelli is not going to trade Phil Kessel for a rental. Any deal for Hossa involving Kessel would mean Hossa was either signed or known to be ready to sign. You'd have to have rocks for brains to think a GM would deal a young, talented forward like Kessel for a rental.

With that in mind, a deal for Hossa means taking on a bigger salary for an older player who is better. Plain and simple. Marian Hossa is better than Phil Kessel today, and is likely to be better for the next 3-4 years, if not forever. If Phil Kessel eventually does start scoring 40+ goals, then you have a debate. Argue all you want about whether he will or not, but Hossa still represents the bird in hand. For a team with a handful of other youngsters ready to start producing, it makes all the sense in the world to consider dealing for a lock 30+ goal scorer.

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02-22-2008, 09:07 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Why is everybody framing this debate in the wrong context? Peter Chiarelli is not going to trade Phil Kessel for a rental. Any deal for Hossa involving Kessel would mean Hossa was either signed or known to be ready to sign. You'd have to have rocks for brains to think a GM would deal a young, talented forward like Kessel for a rental.

With that in mind, a deal for Hossa means taking on a bigger salary for an older player who is better. Plain and simple. Marian Hossa is better than Phil Kessel today, and is likely to be better for the next 3-4 years, if not forever. If Phil Kessel eventually does start scoring 40+ goals, then you have a debate. Argue all you want about whether he will or not, but Hossa still represents the bird in hand. For a team with a handful of other youngsters ready to start producing, it makes all the sense in the world to consider dealing for a lock 30+ goal scorer.
I agree with the first half. However, I just don't see Kessel being dealt. Unlike Boyes, Kessel's potential is extremely high and he is still very young (20).

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02-22-2008, 09:20 AM
  #81
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Kessel is a 20 year old kid in a 17 yr old body so you can see how good he is to even play at this level. During the draft, their was a comment that his dad a former pro football player(canada) said his body didn't really explode or mature to he was 22-24 year old period. If you look at Phil at 22-23 he could easily get 50-60% stronger as his body matures. Also, don't forget again on dec 24 I started a thread that Kessel would be traded and 80% of people called me an idiot.

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02-22-2008, 09:25 AM
  #82
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DEC 24 thread I started

Kessel will be traded soon-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Globe's article today was planted by the bruins to soften the blow when Kessel is traded.imo Its a slimy article about Kessel that plants the seeds for bruins fans that Kessel doesn't work hard and doesn't fit in the system. Their also some pretty good lies too mainly that Kessel was awful at the end of last year and Lewis had enough. The fact is kessel was great after he came back from cancer and thats why people thought he could have a big year.

The globe guys will be thrilled when Kessel gets traded just like Thorton.

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02-22-2008, 09:28 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Latrappe View Post
Great post. That's this famous lack of patience who put the team into a perpetual DNQ cycle. It's time for the organisation to sit tight on the roster and build around the core. I agree with you assement about the Boyes trade since the Bruins are looking to trade for a guy like him. Kessel is young and have a lot of potential. Traded him because he's not the typical power forward that bruins fans like would be... stupid?
I've got to agree with this post and the one he's quoting too.

Mismanagement and panic trades have set the team back five years. It's just beginning to emerge from the MOC/Sinden catastrophic trades of a few years ago. To repeat them now means that The Bruins will forever remain bottom feeders - the farm team to the rest of the NHL.

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02-22-2008, 09:37 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
That HAD to have been a DIRECT Lucic reference.

I don't know what kind of trade we could get for Looch at face value, but there is NO WAY it would fly for us Bruins fans.. No matter what.

Kessel could flourish into a 40 goal scorer, and I think as Bruins fans, even if Lucic has plateaued (), we'd still value him higher than Kessel.

That's what I got out of that comment, anyway.
Good point -- I never even considered Lucic. But then, if PC were to trade Lucic after stating he wanted to get bigger up front it wouldn't make a bit of sense. Only other name I considered was Tim Thomas but he's another guy I don't think PC could ever justify trading.

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02-22-2008, 09:38 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Why is everybody framing this debate in the wrong context? Peter Chiarelli is not going to trade Phil Kessel for a rental. Any deal for Hossa involving Kessel would mean Hossa was either signed or known to be ready to sign. You'd have to have rocks for brains to think a GM would deal a young, talented forward like Kessel for a rental.

With that in mind, a deal for Hossa means taking on a bigger salary for an older player who is better. Plain and simple. Marian Hossa is better than Phil Kessel today, and is likely to be better for the next 3-4 years, if not forever. If Phil Kessel eventually does start scoring 40+ goals, then you have a debate. Argue all you want about whether he will or not, but Hossa still represents the bird in hand. For a team with a handful of other youngsters ready to start producing, it makes all the sense in the world to consider dealing for a lock 30+ goal scorer.
It's a good point. If nothing else, it could come down to ice time. Can you give Kessel the ice time he needs and/or be able to put him in a position to suceed if you add Hossa?

I can't see the B's dealing for Hossa unless they know he'll sign here.

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02-22-2008, 09:40 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
Good point -- I never even considered Lucic. But then, if PC were to trade Lucic after stating he wanted to get bigger up front it wouldn't make a bit of sense. Only other name I considered was Tim Thomas but he's another guy I don't think PC could ever justify trading.
Lucic was the guy I thought of when reading PC's quote about the fans feelings of a certain player, not Kessel.

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02-22-2008, 10:20 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by jtechkidbruin View Post
Kessel is a 20 year old kid in a 17 yr old body so you can see how good he is to even play at this level. During the draft, their was a comment that his dad a former pro football player(canada) said his body didn't really explode or mature to he was 22-24 year old period. If you look at Phil at 22-23 he could easily get 50-60% stronger as his body matures. Also, don't forget again on dec 24 I started a thread that Kessel would be traded and 80% of people called me an idiot.

Um. . . it was Hub that stated Kessel could be traded. You jumped all over him for "trying to run another player out of Boston". I admire your support of Kessel but PLEASE don't try to rewrite history like that.

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02-22-2008, 10:27 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by stick9 View Post
Lucic was the guy I thought of when reading PC's quote about the fans feelings of a certain player, not Kessel.
That's cool, and I'm not really disagreeing with you and Mr. Make-Believe. I just read PC's quote and the Kessel Rap stuck in my head. (Shootouts -- Phil Kessel!)

I wonder how tempting the offers have been for Lucic.

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02-22-2008, 11:02 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
Um. . . it was Hub that stated Kessel could be traded. You jumped all over him for "trying to run another player out of Boston". I admire your support of Kessel but PLEASE don't try to rewrite history like that.
Yea,your right but I still think 80% written about Kessel is in negative context by the boston media and still believe in my conspiracy theory that Bruins plant the story to soften the blow for the fans when he is traded.

The simple fact in nov-dec nobody in their right mind thought Kessel would ever be traded but then you saw a couple negative articles on Kessel which now everybody believes he will be traded.

It's a good way on how media and bruins manipulate the fans and soften the blow of trading away the future star of the bruins. Same thing happened with Thorton I just 100% correctly pointed out very early.

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02-22-2008, 11:29 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtechkidbruin View Post
Yea,your right but I still think 80% written about Kessel is in negative context by the boston media and still believe in my conspiracy theory that Bruins plant the story to soften the blow for the fans when he is traded.

The simple fact in nov-dec nobody in their right mind thought Kessel would ever be traded but then you saw a couple negative articles on Kessel which now everybody believes he will be traded.

It's a good way on how media and bruins manipulate the fans and soften the blow of trading away the future star of the bruins. Same thing happened with Thorton I just 100% correctly pointed out very early.
hmm, or maybe it has to do with how he's PLAYING??? nahh that can't be the case


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02-22-2008, 11:43 AM
  #91
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I know everyone thinks Kessel is probably the main one to get traded, but I wonder if Waddell is looking at Krejci instead. Kessel has proven he is a better winger than center. He is also a high risk/reward player. IF Kessel bombs Waddell is in trouble. Also Alanta is missing a good player maker center, and I believe Krejci is somewhat a Bergeron/Boyes Hybrid player that they could use RIGHT NOW. That's the other thing that has to be taken into consideration. Waddell wants help now to, not just future players. Think about it..Say they trade Hossa, for Murray, Krejci and whatever else, but the two main pieces can play now. Murray could replace goals lost by Hossa, and Krejci becomes thier setup guy for Kovy. Hell that could be a line! Kovy-Krejci-Murray.

I really believe they could do this type of deal without Kessel. The Bruins have drafted very well, and I am sure GMs have taken notice.

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02-22-2008, 12:10 PM
  #92
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USA hockey loves Kessel=Waddel(usa hockey).


Another topic: I don't want to start a thread(or somebody should) is it me or is Hnidy a huge liability going forward? The guy I really think has not been great and on verge of imploding especially when the speed picks up even more close to the playoffs.

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02-22-2008, 12:20 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by jtechkidbruin View Post
USA hockey loves Kessel=Waddel(usa hockey).


Another topic: I don't want to start a thread(or somebody should) is it me or is Hnidy a huge liability going forward? The guy I really think has not been great and on verge of imploding especially when the speed picks up even more close to the playoffs.
jtech...it's good to have you back. I missed all the "pat on the back", Kessel conspiracy, and in depth hockey insight (Hnidy a liability) posts that your presence signifies...

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02-22-2008, 12:38 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by jtechkidbruin View Post
Yea,your right but I still think 80% written about Kessel is in negative context by the boston media and still believe in my conspiracy theory that Bruins plant the story to soften the blow for the fans when he is traded.

The simple fact in nov-dec nobody in their right mind thought Kessel would ever be traded but then you saw a couple negative articles on Kessel which now everybody believes he will be traded.

It's a good way on how media and bruins manipulate the fans and soften the blow of trading away the future star of the bruins. Same thing happened with Thorton I just 100% correctly pointed out very early.
I guess you can look at it a few different ways -- either Hub has a tremendous amount of influence over how Chiarelli runs the team OR Chiarelli started thinking about trading Kessel in late December and Hub merely reported it as news. Or maybe Hub was idly speculating about what he'd do if he were GM of the Bruins --decided to write about it in his column figuring he'd stir the pot a little, knowing well someone may want to throw him in it for making the suggestion.

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02-22-2008, 01:06 PM
  #95
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The question is does sports team try to use the media to get their viewpoint out?

Do reporters like to say or predict things to make themself look smart and informed?

They both scratch each others back. The kessel trade article came out of nowhere in December so it looks like HUB(Dumont) looked into crystal ball and was right on the money(just like me). Their's not one person who thought that the bruins would trade their first round pick in his second year coming off feel good Cancer recovery who you could say is the "one of the faces" of the Bruins.

From the interviews, I get the feeling Jacobs likes Kessel a lot since he's mentioned him and excitement of the youth building brings to the team. I think for Hossa it would happen but other than that I don't think bruins do a trade.

I just think its ironic or brilliant that HUB is the FIRST guy to brings Kessel name to the frontline of a trade. Good for him.

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02-22-2008, 01:07 PM
  #96
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Give HUB credit he was way ahead of everybody-way ahead on Kessel.

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02-22-2008, 01:09 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by jtechkidbruin View Post
I just think its ironic or brilliant that HUB is the FIRST guy to brings Kessel name to the frontline of a trade. Good for him.
This isn't the first time he's facilitated a rumor about trading the Bruins' top young player.

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02-22-2008, 01:14 PM
  #98
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If Kessel goes, I go.

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02-22-2008, 01:47 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by jtechkidbruin View Post
The question is does sports team try to use the media to get their viewpoint out?

Do reporters like to say or predict things to make themself look smart and informed?

They both scratch each others back. The kessel trade article came out of nowhere in December so it looks like HUB(Dumont) looked into crystal ball and was right on the money(just like me). Their's not one person who thought that the bruins would trade their first round pick in his second year coming off feel good Cancer recovery who you could say is the "one of the faces" of the Bruins.

From the interviews, I get the feeling Jacobs likes Kessel a lot since he's mentioned him and excitement of the youth building brings to the team. I think for Hossa it would happen but other than that I don't think bruins do a trade.

I just think its ironic or brilliant that HUB is the FIRST guy to brings Kessel name to the frontline of a trade. Good for him.
Now Hub is brilliant? Before, I thought he was running Kessel out of town on a rail, like he did with Joe??

BTW, who is Dumont?

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02-22-2008, 02:13 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by jtechkidbruin View Post
Yea,your right but I still think 80% written about Kessel is in negative context by the boston media and still believe in my conspiracy theory that Bruins plant the story to soften the blow for the fans when he is traded.

The simple fact in nov-dec nobody in their right mind thought Kessel would ever be traded but then you saw a couple negative articles on Kessel which now everybody believes he will be traded.

It's a good way on how media and bruins manipulate the fans and soften the blow of trading away the future star of the bruins. Same thing happened with Thorton I just 100% correctly pointed out very early.

Oh, my goodness....this is SO frightening on SO many levels. It's stuff like this that could lead some day to the licensing of keyboard usage, similar to cars and marriages.

--hub

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