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Blue Fire Sale/Blues Officially out of Playoffs

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Old
01-31-2004, 02:40 AM
  #26
Prussian_Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.M.D.
Officially taking offers for any or all of the following players:

Pronger, Weight, Tkachuk, Mellanby, Demitra, Drake, Mayers, Boguniecki, Salvador,
Khavanov, Finley, Baron, Osgood


Mikey, Mikey, Mikey...

In the first place, who died and left you in charge of "officially taking offers" for any of the Blues' players?

I find it pretty significant that you started this troll thread, and then disappeared except to offer some lame justification for your desire to utterly ruin the Blues' franchise.

Pronger, Weight, Tkachuk, Salvador and Osgood are going absolutely nowhere, and all the defeatism and negativity you and your posse keep trying to stir up at STLToday isn't going to make it happen.

Trade Drake, Boguniecki and Baron why, exactly? Drake's one of the few who are still working hard and trying to put and end to this slump. Boguniecki gets benched for one bad game (a typical Quenneville ploy, and Quenneville is the real root of the Blues' problems, IMO), and all of a sudden he needs to go, too? Who besides Baron have the Blues got on defense right now that can play an NHL-level physical game?

Blaming Jeff Finley for the Blues' issues. That's pretty typical of you and the rest of the like-minded over at The Nut House. You and your ilk complain about how the Blues have got so much invested in "star" players, and then also turn around and complain because not every player on the team is a "star" caliber guy.

Can't have your cake and eat it, too, son... teams have to have guys like Jeff Finley to fill roles and provide some kind of veteran stability. You'll find at least one guy comparable to Finley on the roster of every recent Stanley Cup winner.

Good luck trying to find anyone to offer more than a bag of unwashed jockstraps for Khavanov... he's the only guy on your list that I'd agree should be run out of town on a rail.

Demitra, I agree, is the most likely to be traded. Maybe, maybe Boguniecki as well, in some kind of package deal. But the Blues won't just be giving them away; they'll be moved for either some comparable scoring help, or blue-chip prospects/high picks, or they won't be moved at all.

It ain't the end of the world, Chicken Little, even though folks like you and that weathervane Jeff Gordon in the St. Louis "Post-Fishwrap" want to paint it as such.

--------------------

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Old
01-31-2004, 02:44 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
This is stupid. Why trade away the entire core of a team destined to comfotably make the playoffs?...
Because it's Jan. 30th and they haven't won the Cup yet this year. Either that or a severe case of rotisseritis is kicking in. :p

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01-31-2004, 02:49 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.M.D.
Have you checked the standings lately? If the Flames win tonight, Blues are in 7th.
You're right 7th sucks and all those guys make your team worse, better get rid of them and be like Columbus

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Old
01-31-2004, 02:59 AM
  #29
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yeah. H. M. D., if you are a blues fan and are looking out fopr their best interests... thank god you arent the blues' GM. you want to dump all good players on a playoff team. that's real dumb. and if pronger asks for market value (which is as much as what blake and lidstrom make), pleau should happy to give it to him. it isn't like the blues are a small market team: they have solid ownership. dont worry about dumping pronger, worry about drafting a good 1st rounder for a change.

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01-31-2004, 03:13 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
yeah. H. M. D., if you are a blues fan and are looking out fopr their best interests... thank god you arent the blues' GM. you want to dump all good players on a playoff team. that's real dumb. and if pronger asks for market value (which is as much as what blake and lidstrom make), pleau should happy to give it to him. it isn't like the blues are a small market team: they have solid ownership. dont worry about dumping pronger, worry about drafting a good 1st rounder for a change.
As far as our 1sr rounders go whe havent done bad there recently we just rarely have a 1st rounder.

Barett Jackman-Good pick
Christian Backman-Playing very well
Shawn Belle-who knows

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01-31-2004, 03:15 AM
  #31
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Ladies and gentlemen, H.M.D was right! The Blues' fire sale has indeed started! Jeremy Yablonski is off to Nashville! Who will be next to feel the effects of the fire sale? John Pohl? Scott Pellerin? REED LOW???

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01-31-2004, 03:19 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Ladies and gentlemen, H.M.D was right! The Blues' fire sale has indeed started! Jeremy Yablonski is off to Nashville! Who will be next to feel the effects of the fire sale? John Pohl? Scott Pellerin? REED LOW???
I know you said that toungue in cheek, but I wish the Blues would hae kept Yabo he will be an enforcer in the NHL in the near future. And John Pohl is still a quality prospect.

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Old
01-31-2004, 03:31 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
As far as our 1sr rounders go whe havent done bad there recently we just rarely have a 1st rounder.

Barett Jackman-Good pick
Christian Backman-Playing very well
Shawn Belle-who knows
yes Jackman was a good pick but he's only had one good year. let's give him time before we can evaluate his true value. Backman has taken his sweet time to develop and he isn't realy a top 4 guy. With a 1st round pick you usualy aim for the fences. I wouldn't qualify Backman as a homerun. It's way too early to judge Belle. He may be good and may be a bust, like you said: who knows.

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01-31-2004, 03:35 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
yes Jackman was a good pick but he's only had one good year. let's give him time before we can evaluate his true value. Backman has taken his sweet time to develop and he isn't realy a top 4 guy. With a 1st round pick you usualy aim for the fences. I wouldn't qualify Backman as a homerun. It's way too early to judge Belle. He may be good and may be a bust, like you said: who knows.
fair enough, I know it has only been one year for Jackman, But I see him as a lock for the top 4 and a future captain.

The more I see Backman play the better I like him and I used to hat the kid because he took his sweet time coming over from Sweden. The more he plays the better he gets he has shown the ability to be a top 4 also.

Our organisatin has a lot of prospects on D now we need to find and develop some forwards.

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Old
01-31-2004, 03:49 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
Our organisatin has a lot of prospects on D now we need to find and develop some forwards.
Agreed. But with the likes of Pronger and Macinnis, the Blues seem to love drafting defensemen in the first round.
With the likes of Bourque and Orr, The Bruins seem to love drafting defensemen in the first round.

Just an observation of first round picks the past few years...

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Old
01-31-2004, 05:42 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
yes Jackman was a good pick but he's only had one good year. let's give him time before we can evaluate his true value. Backman has taken his sweet time to develop and he isn't realy a top 4 guy. With a 1st round pick you usualy aim for the fences. I wouldn't qualify Backman as a homerun. It's way too early to judge Belle. He may be good and may be a bust, like you said: who knows.
Baloney. Look I dont want to take this thread off topic, but how can you slam the Blues' first round picks in one post and then in the next say "we need to give them time before we can evaluate their true value". Like Prussian said to another poster, you cant have your cake and eat it too. The fact is that the Pleau has drafted a Calder winning defenseman in Jackman, and now Backman clearly appears to be the real deal as well. Those of us Blues' fans that watch them day in and day out see a lot of promise in Backman, and I see no reason why he cant be a #2 in this league. And btw, who are you to say that Backman has taken his sweet time to develop? Just because the Blues decide to develop their prospects in the minors instead of the NHL, doesnt mean it's Backman's fault. And its way to early to even talk about Belle. Also, remember we are not talking about lottery picks here, the blues typically draft at the end of the first round.

As a Blues' fan, Im very pleased with the drafting of the Pleau Administration. If he can plug a Jackman or a Backman into the lineup year in and year out, I would be more than happy.

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Old
01-31-2004, 10:27 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrussianBlue
Here we go again.

Kolzig, maybe... Burke, on the other hand, is a has-been who can't win in the playoffs.

Period. Paragraph. End of story.
"Here we go again" ?

Sorry I dont see anybody going on about anything except you. You think Burke is a pile of poo. That's fine. That's your opinion and quite obviously isnt open to debate with you. But try to accept other people have their own opinions too and consider him a good goalie instead of aggressively and provocatively trying to force your views on everybody. That post was not one I'd expect to see from a good moderator.

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Old
01-31-2004, 11:09 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrussianBlue


Here we go again.

Kolzig, maybe... Burke, on the other hand, is a has-been who can't win in the playoffs.

Period. Paragraph. End of story.

90% of the people on this board weren't even shaving yet the last time Burke won a playoff series in the NHL.

--------------------

PrussianBlue


Burke might be able steal a game or two in this slump; Osgood is, well, Osbad....

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Old
01-31-2004, 11:15 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
"Here we go again" ?

Sorry I dont see anybody going on about anything except you. You think Burke is a pile of poo. That's fine. That's your opinion and quite obviously isnt open to debate with you. But try to accept other people have their own opinions too and consider him a good goalie instead of aggressively and provocatively trying to force your views on everybody. That post was not one I'd expect to see from a good moderator.
Sorry, but I don't see anyone complaining about it except you, so I'd say it's a safe bet that my opinions about Burke aren't being "forced" on "everyone," and that it's pretty much a non-issue with most people except you.

Considering that you have absolutely no idea how divisive and inflammatory the Burke debate has been with St. Louis fans, for going on two years now -- and considering that it was that divisiveness and inflammatory nature to which I was referring by saying "here we go again" -- may I suggest that you not concern yourself with things that you really don't know about.

Calling attention to the facts -- that Burke hasn't won a playoff series since 1988 -- is hardly "aggressively and provocatively trying to force (my) views on everyone else." The rest is my opinion, which I would assume I'm still free to have.

And I never said that I don't consider Burke a good goalie. I think Burke's an excellent goalie -- between October and April of most hockey seasons. It's only from April to June that I don't find him to be all that stellar, and his career record, built up over fifteen years in the NHL, pretty much bears this out.

In simple terms, I'm truly sorry that I don't live up to your expectations, but then again, I really wasn't aware that I was required to live up to your expectations.

Have a nice day.

--------------------

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Old
01-31-2004, 11:18 PM
  #40
Prussian_Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.M.D.
Burke might be able steal a game or two in this slump; Osgood is, well, Osbad....
"Might" is the operative word here...

...and "stealing a game or two in this slump" won't do the Blues any good if Burke once again does the playoff el foldo that he's perfected over the last fifteen seasons.

Freely express your opinion, but don't be surprised when someone tells you that they disagree with it, and when they show facts to back up their reasons for disagreeing with it.

--------------------

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02-01-2004, 01:17 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrussianBlue
Sorry, but I don't see anyone complaining about it except you, so I'd say it's a safe bet that my opinions about Burke aren't being "forced" on "everyone," and that it's pretty much a non-issue with most people except you.
Exactly my point. So why the "Here we go again" ?? There was nothing going on until you overreacted to one single innocuous comment that just happened to mention Burke as a good goalie.

Quote:
Considering that you have absolutely no idea how divisive and inflammatory the Burke debate has been with St. Louis fans, for going on two years now -- and considering that it was that divisiveness and inflammatory nature to which I was referring by saying "here we go again" -- may I suggest that you not concern yourself with things that you really don't know about.
Firstly - I visit St.Louis forums, I am well aware. May I suggest you dont make assumptions. This is not a St.Louis fans forum so this has absolutely no relevance in any case. Your "Here we go again" comment would be appropriate in one. Not here.

Quote:
Calling attention to the facts -- that Burke hasn't won a playoff series since 1988 -- is hardly "aggressively and provocatively trying to force (my) views on everyone else." The rest is my opinion, which I would assume I'm still free to have.
Yep of course you are. Just like everyone else is. But you didnt just call attention to it. You used very aggressive language as if no other opinion was possibly valid. Its quite clear if you would like to re-read it. A poster commented innocuously he thought the Blues could do with a good goalie like Kolzig or Burke and that sets you off.

Personally I think a moderator should post in a way to encourage good hockey discussion not aggressively try to suppress it with his views.

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Old
02-01-2004, 02:23 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
Exactly my point. So why the "Here we go again" ?? There was nothing going on until you overreacted to one single innocuous comment that just happened to mention Burke as a good goalie.
So saying that Burke is a has-been who hasn't won a playoff series in fifteen years is "overreacting?"

That's exactly what I said.

I'm truly sorry if you took exception to the "most people here weren't even shaving yet when Burke won his last playoff series" comment, but that's hardly aggressive or "overreacting."

Perhaps I'm just an unlettered country bumpkin, but I really fail to see how "here we go again" is such a heinous, aggressive, "overreaction" to a suggestion that wouldn't even have been brought up if not for the inlammatory post that started this thread.

Perhaps the only "overreacting" being done here is on your part, in browbeating me for a comment that seems to have escaped the notice of the dozens of other people who frequent this particular forum...

I dare say my tone is a heck of a lot less "aggressive" than that of many others. Clearly, you want to hold me to a higher standard because I'm a moderator, and I can live with that, but I wouldn't have to look too long or hard to find plenty of examples of other moderators being quite a bit more "aggressive," or of other moderators who actually do "suppress comment" on their boards.

Your concerns are duly noted, but I have no intention of changing my opinion. If I were trying to suppress comment, as you put it, I'd have made my comments on the Blues' board and just deleted anyone's comments that didn't agree with mine, instead of making my comments here, where I haven't got that kind of editing power.

I don't do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
Firstly - I visit St.Louis forums, I am well aware. May I suggest you dont make assumptions. This is not a St.Louis fans forum so this has absolutely no relevance in any case. Your "Here we go again" comment would be appropriate in one. Not here.
I'm sorry... I wasn't aware that you had been appointed aribter of where and when a comment is "appropriate." If you like, I'd be glad to run all my future posts by you first, so that you can advise me as to wether or not my opinion is "appropriate" for that particular situation.

You're certainly free to keep trying to justify your criticism of me if you like, but I have no intention of responding further. Feel free to get in the last word, and have a nice day.

--------------------

PrussianBlue


Last edited by Prussian_Blue: 02-01-2004 at 02:28 AM.
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Old
02-01-2004, 02:52 AM
  #43
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hehe

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Old
02-01-2004, 11:33 AM
  #44
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Look Prussian Blue. You were rude and aggressive both in responding to him and to me. Here it is for you. I do not have a problem that you pointed out Burke's playoff history. It is the rest of the post that is rude and aggressive and if you cant see that then OK. I think you do, otherwise you wouldnt be selectively remembering what you said and leaving out the rest of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrussianBlue


Here we go again.

Kolzig, maybe... Burke, on the other hand, is a has-been who can't win in the playoffs.

Period. Paragraph. End of story.

90% of the people on this board weren't even shaving yet the last time Burke won a playoff series in the NHL.
Quote:
Perhaps the only "overreacting" being done here is on your part, in browbeating me for a comment that seems to have escaped the notice of the dozens of other people who frequent this particular forum...
I agree.. I probably am. I just dont think a casual aside reference to Burke deserved a response like yours. Its astonishing the amount of browbeating that goes on over Burke especially when a traitorous Flyers or Blues fan actually posts that they like him. There's a difference between hockey debate and intolerant hostility.

Quote:
I dare say my tone is a heck of a lot less "aggressive" than that of many others. Clearly, you want to hold me to a higher standard because I'm a moderator, and I can live with that, but I wouldn't have to look too long or hard to find plenty of examples of other moderators being quite a bit more "aggressive," or of other moderators who actually do "suppress comment" on their boards.

Your concerns are duly noted, but I have no intention of changing my opinion. If I were trying to suppress comment, as you put it, I'd have made my comments on the Blues' board and just deleted anyone's comments that didn't agree with mine, instead of making my comments here, where I haven't got that kind of editing power.
I certainly dont suggest you change your opinion. Just a bit less of the attitude would be nice from everyone (including me) at HF. Its way too aggressive around here sometimes and I know many people feel that way.

Quote:
I'm sorry... I wasn't aware that you had been appointed aribter of where and when a comment is "appropriate." If you like, I'd be glad to run all my future posts by you first, so that you can advise me as to wether or not my opinion is "appropriate" for that particular situation.
Again there's no need for the trite sarcasm simply because you dont want to admit I may have a valid point. This is not the STL fans forum.

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Old
02-01-2004, 06:33 PM
  #45
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Boys, boys, boys....some levity here.

The fact that 90-95% of Blues fans *do not* want Burke doesn't take anything away from his regular season play. As PB pointed out, mentioning Burke as the Blues savior in net is a real hot button for the vast majority of Blues fans, especially given the comments swapped back and forth after the near-trade/non-trade and allegations from both sides after the trade deadline last season.

Again...it's been pointed out that Burke hasn't won a postseason series since his rookie season in 1988, and argued back and forth on both sides why he sucks and why he should be trusted. I'm not throwing my $.02 in here, but if the whole thread is going to degenerate over Sean Burke's name being taken in vain, I suggest everyone here grow some thicker skin and stay away from the thread until they've got at least 3 or 4 layers.

Let them man have his opinion, and if you, I or anyone else doesn't like it.....then ignore it. I do it all the time - it's much less stressful than getting worked up. There's this idea among many people here that if Poster X says something you don't like, you must post back in protest. Forget it - life's too short to ***** and moan over every single thing someone says that you disagree with, especially here. Pick the important battles in life and stand up for them....99.99% of things said here aren't that important.

In the meantime...enjoy the remaining 4 hours of Super Bowl pregame, and root the Panthers on to victory. (Or curse the Patriots if they happen to win.)

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Old
02-01-2004, 09:44 PM
  #46
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Blues officially out of a playoff spot

Three week ago some of you said I was overreacting, and that they are still one of the best teams in the conference, they will soon turn around, blah, blah, blah.
Now that the Blues have squandered their considerable lead--they were first in the conference in winning precentage just 6 weeks ago--it's time to abandon the foolish hopes that they will amount to anything this year. And the post dispatch just had an article out that the insurance money from Mac will only cover the costs of the call ups, and will not go towards aquiring new players:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...e+waiting+game

IT's time to clean house, there should be no one untouchable for the right price, for the players over 25 in the organization. We need to start saving money, and invest in younger players, instead being in this top heavy, resultless mire.

I can see Pronger going to a team like Philadelphia or Toronto, and Demitra to a team like the Rangers or Islanders. And maybe Weight could find a home in Van. or LA to provide them with the top centers to be a contender. And warriors like Mellanby, Drake, and supplemental player like Bougie and Salvador would also be on the block. We would be interested to see what these teams or others might be willing to offer.

Barring couple of earth shattering moves by LP, this season is over for the blues.

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02-01-2004, 09:56 PM
  #47
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You`re still overreacting. relax. It' s a slump.The Blues have a good team and could make it past the first round given the right mach-up. Given the impending CBA, you can`t unload those big contracts anymore... at least not as easily as before... Weight, Demitra, Tkachuck: you are likely stuck with them. Maybe you can dump one but what would that achieve? As for Mellanby, Drake and co., sure you can swap'em at the deadline but the return you will get will hardly be worthy of re-building an already decent team.

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02-01-2004, 10:01 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
As an Avs fan....we would love to welcome Pronger aboard. Also why not pkg in Demitra, Mellanby.

Kariya-Sakic-Selanne
Tanguay-Forsberg-Hejduk
Demitra-Mellanby-Konowalchuk
Nikolishin-Hahl-Hinote

Blake-Pronger (this would be the king of kings)
Foote-Morris
Straskins-Liles
What would you offer for this package?
You can't get something for nothing you know. Considering the former Hart winner, and Lady Bing winner, plus a heart and soul guy together is certainly something.

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02-01-2004, 10:04 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie-L
What would you offer for this package?
You can't get something for nothing you know. Considering the former Hart winner, and Lady Bing winner, plus a heart and soul guy together is certainly something.
Who else but Skoula.

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02-01-2004, 10:06 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
As an Avs fan....we would love to welcome Pronger aboard. Also why not pkg in Demitra, Mellanby.

Kariya-Sakic-Selanne
Tanguay-Forsberg-Hejduk
Demitra-Mellanby-Konowalchuk
Nikolishin-Hahl-Hinote

Blake-Pronger (this would be the king of kings)
Foote-Morris
Straskins-Liles
I am so sorry but this is a bonehead post. How can you acquire Pronger and Demitra without giving up a roster player from such a rich team. It isn`t like your 1st rounder (30th overall?) is going to do the trick! This is blind, ridiculous utopia. :

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