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OT: Sundin and Leafs Fans Opinions

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Old
02-25-2008, 03:16 PM
  #26
PeArD
 
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Maybe this is stupid but I cant help but wonder:

If Ryan Smyth had a no trade clause last year and refused to waive it, would we be mad?

i realize this is 2 kind of different situations, but both players have quite a few similarites in what they mean to the team they play(ed) for.

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Old
02-25-2008, 03:16 PM
  #27
27theROCK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imkinger View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the difference between a NMC and a NTC is that the players can't be waived or sent down to the minors. If this is indeed the case, then the question becomes whether or not they have NTCs or NMCs.
Your bang on... though I dont know who has NMC or NTC. If i was Fletch I would waive some of them if they did have NTC

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02-25-2008, 06:31 PM
  #28
hockeyaddict101
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
I think it should be the opposite. If I were GM I would give out NTC's to lesser players in return for less salary or shorter terms. Lesser players has less trade value than stronger players right?

So the stronger players are players who I wouldn't hand out NTC's because it would allow me to trade them later for worthwhile assets. of course, this might mean that the player might not sign with my team or demand more money. C'est la vie.
Oh we agree it should be the opposite but it's not going to be.

The star players become RFA's and UFA's and they will get what they want that is the reality.

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02-25-2008, 06:44 PM
  #29
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If they're serious about moving Mats McCabe et al., why don't they take a page out of Pronger's rules to getting dealt book. Why be nice about it - business is business. Tell these guys they're not going to play another game in a leafs jersey and go with it. The fact remains that moving these guys is crucial to retooling this floundering team.

I know this could never work - I'm still pissed that an individual can pull a move under contract like Pronger and thumb his gap-toothed nose at us like he did. Where is the justice? What is the use of a contract at all?!

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02-25-2008, 07:02 PM
  #30
millpoo
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Have to blame the Toronto Media and MLSE for all the backlash on this one. The trade was being hyped up for weeks now, and Sundin obviously was never on board.

Can't blame him for exericising his option. In the end he had the power to maintain the quality of life he values; if only the outraged leaf fans had some empathy.

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Old
02-25-2008, 08:26 PM
  #31
frag2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
Teams are so desperate to sign and retain free agents that everyone and his grandmother has a NTC or NMC (I think the actual number is well over 100 players - staggering!). Even the Oilers gave in last summer and gave out the 1st NTC/NMC in franchise history to Souray... and we all know how well that's working out.

Long story short, if teams don't want players invoking these clauses then they shouldn't be giving them out in the first place.


All we can hope for is the cap to keep rising...rising exponentially

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Old
02-25-2008, 08:36 PM
  #32
Ten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27theROCK View Post
I have a friend who is a huge Leafs fan, I mean huge! We are in a fantasy hockey league together and he wrote a huge rant about the state of the leafs. :



I have to admit that I agree with him. The leafs are now looking at a 5 year rebuild where as if they didnt have NMC it could be a 2-3 year rebuild.

As Oiler fans what would be your take if we went through a similar situation?
I feel I should apologize on behalf of Leaf fans who have written immature comments like those mentioned here.

In a season that has been less than stellar, the one glimpse of hope was wondering what young players we could get in return for Mats Sundin to one day turn the club around (and have a team to legitimately cheer for in the playoffs). Most people (I included) thought Sundin's departure would probably be best for the team right now.

But unlike some, I completely respect Mats and support his decision. I really wish most Leaf fans would grow up about it, it could be a whole hell of a lot worse (like not having our first, but that's not really something I want to bring up on the Oilers board.. )

Again, my apologies for the immature comments you'll find all over the board.

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02-25-2008, 08:38 PM
  #33
Harrison
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Why can't they just buy out all there dumb ass contracts in the summer? Ok, we tried to trade you, you wouldn't accept so here is the 8 mil we owe you for 2 years see ya later...

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Old
02-25-2008, 08:40 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftindust View Post
I feel I should apologize on behalf of Leaf fans who have written immature comments like those mentioned here.

In a season that has been less than stellar, the one glimpse of hope was wondering what young players we could get in return for Mats Sundin to one day turn the club around (and have a team to legitimately cheer for in the playoffs). Most people (I included) thought Sundin's departure would probably be best for the team right now.

But unlike some, I completely respect Mats and support his decision. I really wish most Leaf fans would grow up about it, it could be a whole hell of a lot worse (like not having our first, but that's not really something I want to bring up on the Oilers board.. )

Again, my apologies for the immature comments you'll find all over the board.
The Leaf saviour has spoken...thanks for the dig by the way, that was really mature of you....

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Old
02-25-2008, 08:56 PM
  #35
Lowe in Oil
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I'm assuming those 5 players with NTC took less money because of it. So getting traded would not be right. Give them an extra 1M per year and do not include a NTC.

Leafs management is to blame. Not the players.


booohoooooo

LOL
@Leafs

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Old
02-25-2008, 09:02 PM
  #36
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In other news...the Leafs are kicking the **** out of the Senators with the players who wouldn't waive their NMC's playing a significant role.

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Old
02-25-2008, 09:55 PM
  #37
RunTheJuice
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I think the media and their quest for stories and trades have misled the public in what Toronto fans think re: sundin. They (we) love Mats and we pretty much all agree that he owes the leafs nothing, and has been an exceptional and classy player the entire time he's been in TO.
Also, he signed a no-trade clause (the whole idea being to avoid this circus), the leafs org. have said nothing other than "we've asked mats, he has said he wants to stay" it's the media thats making the story a big deal.

I think the frustration comes with not being able to get a return for him, and his reluctance to give any indication of his future before June.
We would love two scenario's

1) he's traded to Montreal/Ottawa for Picks/Prospects, goes crazy in the playoffs, then in game 7 of the final pulls a steve smith and scores on his own net, then takes off his jersey to reveal maple leaf underneath (somewhat unlikely).

2) He signs a 2 year deal, he and stamkos do their selanee/getzlaf impression and win a cup. (somehow less likely than option 1)

either way mats can do what mats wants.

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:01 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
In other news...the Leafs are kicking the **** out of the Senators with the players who wouldn't waive their NMC's playing a significant role.
The Furious Five have banded together and decided to **** off Leaf fans even further by winning games and worsening their draft pick.

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:02 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
The Furious Five have banded together and decided to **** off Leaf fans even further by winning games and worsening their draft pick.
Actually...the exact same thought occurred to me. Can't say I blame them.

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:03 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
The Furious Five have banded together and decided to **** off Leaf fans even further by winning games and worsening their draft pick.
9th place here they come.

Who here thinks an actual rebuild would have worked in Toronto of all markets?

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:07 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
For starters, no matter what Leaf fans say, I doubt many of them truly have the stomach for a rebuild. By this time next year they will be screaming for the head of who ever is GM at the time. Exhibit A for proof - Oilers fans.
There is a lot of truth in this statement. Toronto = Edmonton X 10 in terms of loudmouth whiners/complainers.

And that's something, because it's bad in Edmonton, right now.

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02-26-2008, 02:22 AM
  #42
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Remember Ray Bourque lifting the cup for Colorado? Biggest joke ever. How rewarding is it to play for a team 6 weeks after 15 years with one team, just to get your name on the cup? Big deal. The captain steers the ship, goes down with the ship. Sundin has given his heart and soul to the Leafs and being a rental is just plain wrong. In fact, I hope they ban this practice, or put some kind of rule on it somehow. I think Sundin has done the right thing and I can not believe anybody, even Don Cherry, can call him selfish. He loves the Leafs, and I only wish over the years guys loved the Oilers enough to do something like this.

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Old
02-26-2008, 02:25 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Remember Ray Bourque lifting the cup for Colorado? Biggest joke ever. How rewarding is it to play for a team 6 weeks after 15 years with one team, just to get your name on the cup? Big deal. The captain steers the ship, goes down with the ship. Sundin has given his heart and soul to the Leafs and being a rental is just plain wrong. In fact, I hope they ban this practice, or put some kind of rule on it somehow. I think Sundin has done the right thing and I can not believe anybody, even Don Cherry, can call him selfish. He loves the Leafs, and I only wish over the years guys loved the Oilers enough to do something like this.
Winning a SC is a big deal. That's what the game is all about for dedicated players. It doesn't matter who you win it with.

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Old
02-26-2008, 03:40 AM
  #44
Lowe in Oil
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
Winning a SC is a big deal. That's what the game is all about for dedicated players. It doesn't matter who you win it with.

It must not have been as satisfying for Ray Bourque to win it with Colorado than to have won it with Boston.
Sundin did the right thing.

AT LEAST HE GAVE A REASON....... Unlike FCP!

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Old
02-26-2008, 04:40 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Remember Ray Bourque lifting the cup for Colorado? Biggest joke ever. How rewarding is it to play for a team 6 weeks after 15 years with one team, just to get your name on the cup? Big deal. The captain steers the ship, goes down with the ship. Sundin has given his heart and soul to the Leafs and being a rental is just plain wrong. In fact, I hope they ban this practice, or put some kind of rule on it somehow. I think Sundin has done the right thing and I can not believe anybody, even Don Cherry, can call him selfish. He loves the Leafs, and I only wish over the years guys loved the Oilers enough to do something like this.
at this point it's not trading Mats to get him a cup, it's trading mats to make the leafs a better team in the future. All their failed attempts to rent players to win have left their future in a terrible state, this coulda been a great chance to restock the cupboards but Mats won't take one for the team. His choice and good on him for it, but in the end the leafs suffer.

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Old
02-26-2008, 05:10 AM
  #46
Larry Fisher
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LOL this thread makes me laugh, and not because of the sad state the Leafs are currently in and will continue to be in for years to come, but because I'm in the same keeper pool and have no idea who 27theROCK is. Good to see Corky's rant get a well-deserved 15 minute of fate...

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Old
02-26-2008, 05:14 AM
  #47
Haute Couturier
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
He loves the Leafs, and I only wish over the years guys loved the Oilers enough to do something like this.
Yes, but one might say if he loved them so much he should have done what was best for the team and waived the NTC.

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Old
02-26-2008, 04:58 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Yes, but one might say if he loved them so much he should have done what was best for the team and waived the NTC.
As a love-hate Leafs fan, I must say...I agree

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Old
02-26-2008, 05:10 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by 27theROCK View Post
I have a friend who is a huge Leafs fan, I mean huge! We are in a fantasy hockey league together and he wrote a huge rant about the state of the leafs. :

Quote:
Waive Tucker and Kubina, put McCabe in the pressbox and DO NOT resign Sundin. What a ridiculously selfish decision. I hope they get booed off the ice at the next home game. Bunch of losers who apparently will all be back next year. Mats Sundin had a chance to cement his legacy with Leaf Nation as the guy that carried us for years and then single handedly ushered in a new era, like Wendel did when he landed us Mats at the '94 draft. Now he will be known for single handedly destroying our chances to rebuild and do this right. And guys like Tucker and McCabe and Kubina should be embarassed for themselves. Where is your pride?? We dont want you guys playing for this team anymore, it could not be more clear. Leave losers. How could professional athletes turn down a chance to play for the cup. "I don't believe in rental players" SHUT THE **** UP!!!!! It sure didn't bother you when we brought Gilmour back or when we brought in Brian Leetch or Ronnie Franchise. Did you go to Leetch and Francis and tell them they were sellouts? I guess Sundin is above Leetch and Francis (who was a rental twice) and Ray Bourque and hell even Wayne Gretzky was a rental player at one point in his career. get over yourself. Such a hypocrite. Do not resign this clown. I laughed at that sign on Saturday night, "Thanks for the memories, Mats!!" Ya thanks for leading us to a 5th-9th place finish year in and year out. Goodbye can not come soon enough.


I have to admit that I agree with him. The leafs are now looking at a 5 year rebuild where as if they didnt have NMC it could be a 2-3 year rebuild.

As Oiler fans what would be your take if we went through a similar situation?
I disagree.

To ask, 'where is your pride' and then chastize Sundin for wanting to remain a Leaf? His pride is in being a Leaf. How many times have we heard laments from fans about those selfish players who are so quick to sign for more money just so they can be on a so-called Cup contender?

And furthermore, the Leafs signed the contract with the NTC ... live with your commitment ... don't diss the player.

And furthermore, there was a time when loyalty meant something ... alot ... but I guess those days are long gone (oops, I think I just showed my age! ). Steve Yzerman was a rarity in many ways ... yea, he had a few Cups to his name ... but the guy was equally heralded for his loyalty to the Red Wings. Instead of revering players that want to maintain they're loyalty, now we bash them for being in the way. Whose the unloyal ones in that equation? Not the player, IMHO!

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Old
02-26-2008, 05:35 PM
  #50
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I like Sundin's position. He doesn't believe in being a rental player, and he wants to remain (and retire I believe) as a Leaf.

It's honourable when a Captain goes down with his ship.

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