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Atd#8-ML The James Creighton Cup Finals: Cincinnati Stingers vs. New York Americans

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Old
03-02-2008, 08:32 PM
  #1
VanIslander
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Atd#8-ML The James Creighton Cup Finals: Cincinnati Stingers vs. New York Americans

The James Creighton Memorial Cup Finals
The All-Time Draft #8 Minor League Championship


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03-02-2008, 08:33 PM
  #2
VanIslander
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------------



Cincinnati Stingers
Mickey Ion Division Champions

coach: Peter Laviolette
captain: Gord Roberts
alternates: Al Arbour, Udo Kiessling
MVP finalist: Gord Roberts

Gord Roberts (C) - Pavel Datsyuk - Eddie Oatman
Martin Straka - Bob Gracie - Harry Hyland
Murray Murdoch - Cully Dahlstrom - Bill Ezinicki
Morris Lukowich - Andre Lacroix - Nikolai Drozdetsky
Marty Walsh, Nick Fotiu

Brad Maxwell - Al Arbour (A)
Andrei Markov - Howard McNamara
Udo Kiessling (A) - Uwe Krupp
Garth Boesch

Jim Henry
Bunny Laroque



vs.





New York Americans
Sir Montagu Allan Division Champions

coach: Frank Patrick
captain: Hobey Baker
alternates: Boris Mayorov, Jeff Beukeboom
team MVP: Hobey Baker

Boris Mayorov (A) - Billy Taylor - Rick Kehoe
Alex Shibicky - Bill Thoms - Harry Oliver
Louis Berlinquette - Bruce MacGregor - Anders Kallur
Ethan Moreau - Stephane Yelle - Bobby Gould
Shawn Burr

Hobey Baker (C) - Battleship Leduc
Jeff Brown - Jeff Beukeboom (A)
Bert Marshall - Robyn Regehr
Bert McCaffrey

Paddy Moran
Henrik Lundqvist
Darren Puppa



-------------


Last edited by VanIslander: 03-02-2008 at 09:11 PM.
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03-02-2008, 08:34 PM
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VanIslander
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Cincinnati Stingers

PP1: Roberts - Datsyuk - Oatman - Markov - Maxwell
PP2: Lukowich - Lacroix - Hyland - Straka - Krupp

PK1: Murdoch - Dalhstrom - Kiessling - McNamara
PK2: Ezinicki - Gracie - Arbour - Krupp

vs.

New York Americans

PP1: Mayorov - MacGregor - Kehoe - Baker - Taylor
PP2: Shibicky - Thoms - Oliver - Brown - Leduc

PK1: Yelle - Gould - Marshall - Beukeboom
PK2: MacGregor - Moreau - Leduc - Regehr


Last edited by VanIslander: 03-02-2008 at 09:13 PM.
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03-02-2008, 08:44 PM
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VanIslander
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I am struck by how both teams have great first pairings on the blueline and both have not so great second pairings:

hard to believe Krupp-Markov would have chemistry, and still not sold on Beukeboom as anything but a third pairing on any team.

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03-02-2008, 08:59 PM
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This doesn't have much to do with the previous comment....

But the 2nd and 3rd pairings will look like

Markov - McNamara
Kiessling - Krupp

I remembered entering this change in the divisionnal Semis ...anyways..

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03-02-2008, 09:12 PM
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VanIslander
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fixed

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Old
03-02-2008, 10:35 PM
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VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
I voted.
we are in the DISCUSSION phase, not voting yet!

you are a newbie so don't realize that usually there are several days of posts about a match-up before voting begins

Schedule:

Discussion: Monday to Thursday
Voting: Friday and Saturday
Results: Sunday

K?

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Old
03-02-2008, 11:23 PM
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pitseleh
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I will try to find some time to post some thoughts tomorrow, but good luck to MXD and Jungosi. This is going to be a tough, hard fought series.

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Old
03-03-2008, 03:08 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
I am struck by how both teams have great first pairings on the blueline and both have not so great second pairings:

hard to believe Krupp-Markov would have chemistry, and still not sold on Beukeboom as anything but a third pairing on any team.
Beukeboom would do a good job offsetting a guy like Brown though, wouldn't he?

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03-03-2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Beukeboom would do a good job offsetting a guy like Brown though, wouldn't he?
The thing is: he often went out of position to make a big hit. The physical side of his game would be helped by a pairing with a more responsible guy, not a bigger wanderer.

If coach Patrick can keep him disciplined and his play more conservative than yeah. A Brown-Beukeboom second pairing is a firestorm of activity, which could be very effective and very susceptible to broken plays.

Beukeboom got very few points on high powered Oilers teams because he was an 8 -10 minutes a game #5/#6 slot d-man, not a 20 minute second pairing guy. Every team needs a top-4 to handle heavy minutes, and he ain't that kind of player, though by all indications he was before the NHL, though I only recall his Oilers and Rangers days.

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03-03-2008, 10:44 PM
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This is going to be a really close series, IMO. I'm going to wait for the GM's comments before I post my own.

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03-04-2008, 11:09 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
The thing is: he often went out of position to make a big hit. The physical side of his game would be helped by a pairing with a more responsible guy, not a bigger wanderer.

If coach Patrick can keep him disciplined and his play more conservative than yeah. A Brown-Beukeboom second pairing is a firestorm of activity, which could be very effective and very susceptible to broken plays.

Beukeboom got very few points on high powered Oilers teams because he was an 8 -10 minutes a game #5/#6 slot d-man, not a 20 minute second pairing guy. Every team needs a top-4 to handle heavy minutes, and he ain't that kind of player, though by all indications he was before the NHL, though I only recall his Oilers and Rangers days.
He was very effective as Brian Leetch's defence partner with the Rangers for quite a few seasons.

pit's always been a big Beukeboom fan. Beukeboom wasn't the most mobile guy out there, but he was tough, rugged, and in his Ranger days, solid positionally, and a very effective crease-clearer.

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03-04-2008, 02:35 PM
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Hey...seems like I just wrote a message about Beukeboom...

Abstract : I see him as competent in his role, but he'll have to either sacrifice reliability or physicallity to be an effective partner to the high-risk/high-reward (and not the best guy on the defensive side of the game) Brown. If Beuk goes for the big hit, the Americans will often have ZERO D-Men at their position on the 2nd pairing. He can adapt, but a trade off has to be made here.

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03-04-2008, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
He was very effective as Brian Leetch's defence partner with the Rangers for quite a few seasons.

pit's always been a big Beukeboom fan. Beukeboom wasn't the most mobile guy out there, but he was tough, rugged, and in his Ranger days, solid positionally, and a very effective crease-clearer.
Yeah, my only memories of Beukeboom are of his Rangers days. I remember him being a beast during the '94 Finals paired with Leetch.

I do think given the circumstance of playing with a less reliable defensive partner in Brown that Beukeboom would be able to hold back on his tendency to go for the big hits to provide a more dependable defensive presence. It may limit his effectiveness in the physicality department but should make a better partner for Brown on the whole.

A couple of thoughts on the series:

- I really respect the Murdoch-Dahlstrom-Ezinicki line that MXD and Jungosi have been able to put together. That said, I feel as though we have two strong scoring lines that are nearly equal in scoring ability. If they decide to match that line to either of our top-2 lines, I feel comfortable with our ability to make up for that matchup with our other scoring line.

- I think we have a decent edge in scoring from both our third line and defense. MacGregor was a very consistent goal scorer his entire career and finished as high as fourth in the league in scoring. Berlinquette was consistently a strong playmaker through his career. Kallur was a scoring star in Sweden and had several strong seasons in the NHL before turning into a defensive specialist. Murdoch, Dahlstrom, and Ezinicki were consistent scorers, but at the level of checkers rather than scorers.

While Maxwell was a consistent offensive threat from the back-end, Baker is one of the premiere offensive defensemen in the MLD and is capable of catalyzing and offense from that position. Brown has a marked advatage over Markov on the second units in terms of career value. While Markov has three seasons as a good offensive defenseman, Brown was consistently a 60-70 point producer through his prime.

- I think Moran gives a slight edge in net. He's got championship experience, carrying his team to the Stanley Cup twice and was one of the top goaltenders in the world for nearly his entire career. Henry was a very good goaltender, but he doesn't have the longevity near the top nor the successful championship experience that Moran has.

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03-05-2008, 02:56 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Brown has a marked advatage over Markov on the second units in terms of career value. While Markov has three seasons as a good offensive defenseman, Brown was consistently a 60-70 point producer through his prime.
I agree, offensively anyway. Markov is now in his third season as a top NHL defenseman at both ends of the ice. Brown was a one-trick pony. Yes, he did it for longer, though.

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03-05-2008, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I agree, offensively anyway. Markov is now in his third season as a top NHL defenseman at both ends of the ice. Brown was a one-trick pony. Yes, he did it for longer, though.
I hope it didn't seem I was trying to insinuate any differently. I think Brown was superior as an offensive defenseman while Markov is more well rounded. The longevity point I was trying to make was that Markov has only been a top offensive defenseman for about three years while Brown was a top offensive defenseman for nearly ten.

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03-05-2008, 10:13 PM
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Random notes....

- Nobody expects my 3rd line to score regularily.... This line is mainly made of checkers and PKers whose goal is to slow down opponent. This said, I don't have any problem sending any of my first two lines against the Top-6 for NYA. A two-way center (Gracie) and a responsible forward (Straka) with the best scoring RW of this draft (Hyland). Nothing to be worried about. And my 1st is even more exposive. The 4th line is mainly there to go on the ice once in while to shift the tempo, and will keep one of NYA's checking line busy.

- Maybe Brown is better than Markov as far as @absolute@ values are concerned, I'd take Markov for the relative value. I don't need to explain how Markov can work wonders with a power play now. Send in McNamara, there's quite a difference between the 2nd pairs.

- As for the 1st pairing... Well... Maxwell is a proven playoff performer. That's all that need to be said, really.

- Henry's competition... and forwards who were trying to beat him... went in the ATD.

Sorry for the short entries. I think I've expressed enough my views on debating during the main draft.

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03-06-2008, 05:04 AM
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I liki Cinci's team defense, While I think NY has the better offense. Thus, for me, it comes down to Cinci's offense vs NY's D.

P.S. been having massive comp probs...

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03-06-2008, 11:46 PM
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seventieslord
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I am still not sure who I'll vote for, but I am pretty sure I'll be calling it a 7-game series. With the weekend approaching I will give it a good player-by-player comparison and analyse the matchups.

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03-07-2008, 07:30 PM
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I feel like the Americans are more of a team built for the playoffs. A little more sandpaper, especially back on D. I like their coaching better and I also prefer their fourth line.

Stingers are more explosive... but I think they'll have real trouble playing in New York when the Americans get to dictate the match ups. Datsyuk is going to get shut down on the road IMO. I expect a lot of physical play from New York's D that will wear the Stingers down in a long series.

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Old
03-07-2008, 09:16 PM
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chaosrevolver
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I really like this matchup. Like posted above, one team is really explosive and the other is built perfectly. I think there is not a doubt that it will be close. I like the offensive and defensive matchups.

Good luck to both teams.

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03-07-2008, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Schedule:

Discussion: Monday to Thursday
Voting: Friday and Saturday
Results: Sunday

K?
Everyone should be voting.

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Old
03-07-2008, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
Everyone should be voting.
got your vote

Keep the votes coming in guys!

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Old
03-08-2008, 01:17 AM
  #24
MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnmullin View Post
I feel like the Americans are more of a team built for the playoffs. A little more sandpaper, especially back on D. I like their coaching better and I also prefer their fourth line.

Stingers are more explosive... but I think they'll have real trouble playing in New York when the Americans get to dictate the match ups. Datsyuk is going to get shut down on the road IMO. I expect a lot of physical play from New York's D that will wear the Stingers down in a long series.
The 4th line make my team look extremely explosive....
This said :

- Gord Roberts is sometimes noted as being a proto power forward... A guy that could wear down defenses and goaltenders

- Bob Gracie is really a two-way forward... Think of our 2nd line as a responsible line, with one extremely explosive RW.

- The toughest player in this round is McNamara.

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Old
03-09-2008, 06:14 PM
  #25
vancityluongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
Everyone should be voting.
GAHHHHH!!!!!!


I COMPLETELY MISSED IT!!!

You have my votes now VanI, my most humble apologies for sending em in so late, I got caught up.

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