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Old
02-26-2008, 03:15 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Yeah but THIS year?

I just don't think they are ready to win yet. They just blew some youth - even if it is expendable - for a player that won't be there in 2 months time.

Even if they made the same deal this time next year it would look better but this is just way too soon imo.

It's a shame really because they were building something special and even if Christensen and Armstrong are only ever role players, winners still need such a commodity. If they still were considered expendable in a year or so, THEN pull the trigger on this type of deal. Or for the short answer, I think they blew their load before they even got their pants down....
LOL...I think I may have to agree with you but Hossa may really enjoy playing with Crosby (who woudln't) and may resign.

But they might also be building TB north.

Depends what happens with Malkin.

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02-26-2008, 03:15 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Yeah but THIS year?

I just don't think they are ready to win yet. They just blew some youth - even if it is expendable - for a player that won't be there in 2 months time.

Even if they made the same deal this time next year it would look better but this is just way too soon imo.

It's a shame really because they were building something special and even if Christensen and Armstrong are only ever role players, winners still need such a commodity. If they still were considered expendable in a year or so, THEN pull the trigger on this type of deal. Or for the short answer, I think they blew their load before they even got their pants down....
well sometimes you have to look at the big picture.. sydney is signed for 5 more years.. i think if you don't honestly compete for the cup in each of these 5 years then you are not doing a good GM job.. anything can happen in the playoffs.. if we still had pronger i'd not hesitate a little bit to trade gagner for 2 months of hossa..

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02-26-2008, 03:16 PM
  #78
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MAB to the ducks is gonna make him look good because pronger plays there and he made MAB look like a good dman
Pronger can make any dman look good.

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02-26-2008, 03:17 PM
  #79
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MAB to the ducks is gonna make him look good because pronger plays there and he made MAB look like a good dman
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Burke use MAB as a limited minutes forward and PP specialist.

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02-26-2008, 03:17 PM
  #80
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As I mentioned in my last post....Staios has had a lot on his plate trying to cover for Smid's inability to make the right reads.
He appeared to me to be over compensating which obviously made things worse.
He played badly throught the season, including when he wasn't paired with Smid. They paired him with Pitkanen and it didn't go well. He was with Souray for a while and, IIRC, the results were only marginally better.

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First of all the whole team was bad, including his Partner Smid who was getting burned on a back door play practically ever game.

Or how about the fact that everyone except for the top line was bleeding goals against all season long?

Staois is not a guy who is going to be your #1 defenceman... and too many times this year he was forced into that role because of injuries. That being said, for what he makes he provides a lot of value.

You are going to have a tough time replacing what he brings for what he makes by spending money on a UFA (especially with the cap going up).
How about bettering what he brings by spending more money than he makes right now? Staios has one of those "in purgatory" contracts on this team -- along with Pisani, Moreau, Roloson, Torres and Stoll, each one of them could probably be making incrementally less than they are right now, which would add up to a sum of money that could be spent on another significant player. Or, if you wiped out one of their contracts completely, we'd be able to offer above and beyond that for a better player.

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02-26-2008, 03:17 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 4th_Liner View Post
well sometimes you have to look at the big picture.. sydney is signed for 5 more years.. i think if you don't honestly compete for the cup in each of these 5 years then you are not doing a good GM job.. anything can happen in the playoffs.. if we still had pronger i'd not hesitate a little bit to trade gagner for 2 months of hossa..
Uh ... no, for that to be equivalent the Penguins would have had to have given up Jordan Staal.

The deal they made would be more like us giving up Schremp, Brodziak, Grebeshkov, and a 1st for Hossa.

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02-26-2008, 03:18 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Burke use MAB as a limited minutes forward and PP specialist.
stick it to lowe burkie.. i can turn what you had into another cup AND your pick's mine..

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02-26-2008, 03:19 PM
  #83
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Uh ... no, for that to be equivalent the Penguins would have had to have given up Jordan Staal.

The deal they made would be more like us giving up Schremp, Brodziak, Grebeshkov, and a 1st for Hossa.
okay.. even better then.. wouldn't blink twice to do that if we still had pronger..

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02-26-2008, 03:20 PM
  #84
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Staios has taken a lot of heat this season and a lot of it has to do with the fact that he has been covering for Smid. I am not at all surprised that he may have tried to do too much to compensate for having to cover for a poor defensive partner.
I strongly believe your giving Staios way to much credit here... and Smid not nearly enough. I do see your point and hope this new Staios we've been seeing is here to stay. If the guy can't positively contribute playing 3-4 minutes though... he's completely useless.

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02-26-2008, 03:20 PM
  #85
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Pronger made Bergeron look good? He made him look less terrible, but we still needed an upgrade in 06. Besides, I'm fairly positive Bergeron won't be playing WITH Pronger.

Quote:
if we still had pronger i'd not hesitate a little bit to trade gagner for 2 months of hossa..
*vomit*

Maybe I'd trade Gagner for two months of Crosby, but Hossa? Really? Pisani has more points in the playoffs then Hossa. Not exactly worth the future of the franchise, IMO.

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02-26-2008, 03:20 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by 4th_Liner View Post
stick it to lowe burkie.. i can turn what you had into another cup AND your pick's mine..
It's likely no coincidence that Burke picked a former Oiler castoff for his playoff run.

Can uou imagine Burke, Pronger and MAB with Stanley Cup rings?

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02-26-2008, 03:20 PM
  #87
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look at this way.. he's a safety net.. we all agree that the blueline needs major upgrade but we can't be guarenteed that's going to happen this summer.. so if we are without staios and go into the next season with a similiar blueline minus staios we'll be challenging for the top pick yet again..

now this doesn't limit us from improving in the offseason.. if we can get someone better then we trade staios then to teams that has missed out on the UFA's.. if we don't get someone better, we'll roll the same sorry roster and hope that petry or chorney steps up.. and if that fails his value next year at the deadline wouldn't be any worse than what hal gill got you today..
In a CBA where maximizing return on diminishing assets is important, I believe Lowe missed an opportunity today. Staios' value is unlikely to be higher than it was today imo, and his value to a team (the Oilers) that a) needs some cap space and b) won't necessarily be able to use him in an appropriate role, does not balance that opportunity cost that was incurred today.

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02-26-2008, 03:22 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by 4th_Liner View Post
well sometimes you have to look at the big picture.. sydney is signed for 5 more years.. i think if you don't honestly compete for the cup in each of these 5 years then you are not doing a good GM job.. anything can happen in the playoffs.. if we still had pronger i'd not hesitate a little bit to trade gagner for 2 months of hossa..
That's just it, they were a playoff team prior to today so they were in fact competing already.

It just seems way more prudent to let the assembled group take a run, let the players themselves show you what they can and can't do (hell Christensen or Armstrong could have had their coming out parties this spring for all we know) and THEN next year heading into the deadline (or even over the summer) do tweaking based on the results...not based on some romantic notion that the shiniest toy on sale will look good with your stable of youngsters for two months.

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Old
02-26-2008, 03:25 PM
  #89
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Is Ladd starting to figure it out?

Four goals, ten points and +11 in his last 11 games.

We knew Ruutuu was on the market and I saw this deal and my first thought was it was a change of atmosphere deal. Then I remembered I'd seen Ladd show up on a lot of highlight packs lately and when I looked up his game log, it says he's had a great last 11 games.

So this could be one to watch for.

Stuart did a great job last year as a rental so I think that's a great move by Wings.

Also, before I forget, Bruce Garrioch looks like a very fat Billy Bob Thornton.

Back to the deals:

TO : Nice job on the Gill deal but more for the 2nd round pick then shedding the money. Nice to get a 3rd for Kilger but he's only making 800K this year and 700K next and he's 24/22 in terms of Desjardins numbers. Very quietly, both him and Devereaux have been bargains for the Leaves.

Wsh: Kolzig is terrible and perhaps Huet will allow them to grab the divisional crown.

Col: Foote's still a player and netminding and D were the question marks in Col so he's gonna help. But a first this year? That's hard to swallow.

Pit: I'll look at this from a different perspective. If Hossa helps them get to the second or third round and thus helps to grab a few more playoff home gates, then this trade's a winner no matter what the 17 assets they dealt away turned out to be.

Ott: Outside of Holik, has anyone stolen more money than Martin Lapointe? Show's how far he's fallen in everyone's eyes that you could get him for a 6th.

MtL: Earlier in the day when Huet was dealt off, I told my Habs buddy I thought it was because Gainey was no longer sure he could grab Hossa so he didn't want to let Huet walk for nothing. In essence, I believe he's saying what I thought he should: we're not really losing anyone between this year and next and next year our kids should be even better. Hard to swallow as a fan but a solid plan I thought.

SJ: Heard someone say on one of the shows that Campbell wasn't the kid of guy they wanted. Well, he's better than their second option on the PP and from the six D I saw they dressed against Pit on Sunday, he's gonna be better than some of them. Bernier hasn't been anything to drool over since '06 and they've got some many kid forwards it's hard to believe you'll miss them. And that factors into how I feel about them giving up their first as well.

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Old
02-26-2008, 03:25 PM
  #90
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That's just it, they were a playoff team prior to today so they were in fact competing already.

It just seems way more prudent to let the assembled group take a run, let the players themselves show you what they can and can't do (hell Christensen or Armstrong could have had their coming out parties this spring for all we know) and THEN next year heading into the deadline (or even over the summer) do tweaking based on the results...not based on some romantic notion that the shiniest toy on sale will look good with your stable of youngsters for two months.
competing for the cup.. not just for a playoff spot.. you can keep waiting for so and so to have breakout season and point at next year.. but you are wasting a full year of having sydney and malkin.. how many of those years can you waste just so you can wait on the armstrong's or the christesen's to break out..
i think the pens made a great decision today..

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02-26-2008, 03:26 PM
  #91
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In a CBA where maximizing return on diminishing assets is important, I believe Lowe missed an opportunity today. Staios' value is unlikely to be higher than it was today imo, and his value to a team (the Oilers) that a) needs some cap space and b) won't necessarily be able to use him in an appropriate role, does not balance that opportunity cost that was incurred today.
I don't know if now is the right time

1) losing staois means we have no shot of giving burke a lottery pick. He may still get it but trading steve guaranttees it.

2) with the insane defencemen contracts being handed out, steve is no longer overpaid. He is paid appropriately if you consider him a #4-6 dman.

3) the market for experience dmen could be insane this summer. There are a few teams with just about no experienced guys signed beyond June 1. Their could be some desperate teams out there looking for a guy like Steve.

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02-26-2008, 03:26 PM
  #92
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I'm glad Lowe didn't get rid of Staois. We do need some veteran presence on the Defence as we try to salvage the season and not tank.

Keep us above the top 5, and then when the season's over, you can trade someone like Staois on Draft Day for another pick.

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02-26-2008, 03:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
That's just it, they were a playoff team prior to today so they were in fact competing already.

It just seems way more prudent to let the assembled group take a run, let the players themselves show you what they can and can't do (hell Christensen or Armstrong could have had their coming out parties this spring for all we know) and THEN next year heading into the deadline (or even over the summer) do tweaking based on the results...not based on some romantic notion that the shiniest toy on sale will look good with your stable of youngsters for two months.
I'm with you.

I also have to wonder if the Pens aren't mistaking the Eastern Conference Championship for the Stanley Cup. The addition of HOSSA is enough to possibly put the PENS at the head of the EC class...but still a gap between them and ANH in the WESTERN CONF.

I think anyone who played a conservative hand in the EAST...was maybe smarter than we realize...because it might be such a big stretch to try and get on the same level as the DUCKS at this point.

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02-26-2008, 03:29 PM
  #94
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I don't know if now is the right time

1) losing staois means we have no shot of giving burke a lottery pick. He may still get it but trading steve guaranttees it.

2) with the insane defencemen contracts being handed out, steve is no longer overpaid. He is paid appropriately if you consider him a #4-6 dman.

3) the market for experience dmen could be insane this summer. There are a few teams with just about no experienced guys signed beyond June 1. Their could be some desperate teams out there looking for a guy like Steve.
I don't think Staios' value will ever be as high as it was today. Based on what GMs have done in the offseasons under this new CBA, I think they'd rather overpay for mediocre UFA talent than pony up assets and trade for signed talent that may be better than what's available in the UFA market. Unless you're a team that can't attract UFAs...

He's going to continue to be overplayed and overused in Edmonton, and his play isn't going to get any better as a result of it imo. I sincerely think we could have used the additional capspace and flexibility to do some other things.

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02-26-2008, 03:31 PM
  #95
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*vomit*
Maybe I'd trade Gagner for two months of Crosby, but Hossa? Really? Pisani has more points in the playoffs then Hossa. Not exactly worth the future of the franchise, IMO.
future?.. both the future and the present of that franchise is sydney.. the next 5 years anyways.. they just positioned themselves in the same level as jersey/ottawa in the east after today.. but yeah go ahead and *vomit* at that..

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02-26-2008, 03:32 PM
  #96
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Phoenix getting Marcel Hossa, does that mean Marian goes and join Gretzky and the boys July 1st?

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02-26-2008, 03:32 PM
  #97
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competing for the cup.. not just for a playoff spot.. you can keep waiting for so and so to have breakout season and point at next year.. but you are wasting a full year of having sydney and malkin.. how many of those years can you waste just so you can wait on the armstrong's or the christesen's to break out..
i think the pens made a great decision today..
I think you are kinda missing my point but I have been around here long enough to know that when you're bent on seeing things a certain way, there is no point in banging my head against the wall to debate the points.

So we disagree ...

In a couple months the picture will obviously be much clearer.

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02-26-2008, 03:33 PM
  #98
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I really like what Washington and Colorado did today - I wouldn't be shocked if both manage to sneak into the playoffs. Detroit picking up Stuart was a really nice move and he should help them with their injuries on defence.
How can you like what Colorado did? Trading a first round pick for Foote? Brutal. I bet they don't even make the playoffs.

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02-26-2008, 03:34 PM
  #99
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I'm with you.

I also have to wonder if the Pens aren't mistaking the Eastern Conference Championship for the Stanley Cup. The addition of HOSSA is enough to possibly put the PENS at the head of the EC class...but still a gap between them and ANH in the WESTERN CONF.

I think anyone who played a conservative hand in the EAST...was maybe smarter than we realize...because it might be such a big stretch to try and get on the same level as the DUCKS at this point.
that's what they thought 2 years ago when detroit was clearly the head of the league.. but if you can get to the finals you've got a 50/50 shot at winning it..

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02-26-2008, 03:34 PM
  #100
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How can you like what Colorado did? Trading a first round pick for Foote? Brutal. I bet they don't even make the playoffs.
I think they will make the playoffs, even without any of their deadline additions (Forsberg included).

You think their record seriously wasn't going to improve once Sakic and Statsny and Smyth all came back?

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