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GDT: The Edmonton Oilers take on The Detroit Red Wings

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Old
02-26-2008, 05:10 PM
  #26
4th_Liner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdog View Post
lets stop comparing Detroit to the Oilers

its like comparing HD tv to SD tv
try radio..

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02-26-2008, 05:14 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
They're actually 2-7-1.

But the Wings are missing far better players than the Oilers...
They've only missed Lidstrom for 2 games.

Rafalski 5 games.

The only longterm one so far has been Kronwall, and that's 16 games... just as many as Horcoff (who is probably about 5th or 6th on our team for most games lost this year).

Hey, if we were even in the same area in terms of games lost, this would be a valid argument. The Red Wings may have lost better players, but the Oilers have lost quality players (and a higher number) for significantly more games.

so the point stands... a lot of injuries (even to good teams) has a major impact, especially when they all happen in a bunch.

Quote:
of course knowing you, you wouldn't trade Horcoff for Lidstrom, Moreau for Rafalski or Torres for either of Kronwall or Cleary.
And of course knowing you, you were probably one of the fans pleading for Cleary's immediate departure a few years ago, and now you use him as an example of a good player on the Wings.

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02-26-2008, 05:22 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th_Liner View Post
?! oh that's right we were challenging the division title before horcoff went down..
Nope, but they started losing players long before the wings did. And I'm not arguing that if both were healthy that the Oilers would be better... my point was a lot of injuries at one time impacts a team in a big way.

And you can't just overcome the loss of 4 or 5 players out of your lineup (especially players who play important minutes) and expect to be consistently competitive.

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why are you trying to add up horcoff's 30 games now.. i thought you were looking conviniently at the last 10 games where the wings played the way the oilers have played the entire season..
Well I figured considering you lumped in Lidstrom (who missed 2 games in that stretch) as some sort of argument, it was fair play.

And the Wings are 2-7-1, and have been held to 1 goal or less in 4 out of their last 5 games.

The Oilers have done that all year?

Are you capable of making a legitimate point, or is it always focusing on inaccurate extremes?

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02-26-2008, 05:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
They've only missed Lidstrom for 2 games.

Rafalski 5 games.

The only longterm one so far has been Kronwall, and that's 16 games... just as many as Horcoff (who is probably about 5th or 6th on our team for most games lost this year).

Hey, if we were even in the same area in terms of games lost, this would be a valid argument. The Red Wings may have lost better players, but the Oilers have lost quality players (and a higher number) for significantly more games.

so the point stands... a lot of injuries (even to good teams) has a major impact, especially when they all happen in a bunch.



And of course knowing you, you were probably one of the fans pleading for Cleary's immediate departure a few years ago, and now you use him as an example of a good player on the Wings.
Actually no...but the Cleary playing for the Wings is not the player who played here.

If you want to take a look at the impact of current injuries, which is what this GDT was all about, imagine the Oilers playing the Wings tonight without Horcoff (for Lidstrom), Staios (for Kronwall), Pitkanen (for Rafalski) Moreau (for Chelios), Pisani (for Cleary) and Garon (for Hasek).

I don't think it would be pretty and my point about not using injuries as excuse tonight still stands.

As, for a season long impact, sure there is an effect, but if losing players that are of a lower calibre causes you to plummet to 14th in your division, you've got a pretty bad team to start with.

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02-26-2008, 05:32 PM
  #30
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Makes one wonder why Cleary can thrive in Detroit, but not here...

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02-26-2008, 05:37 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdog View Post
lets stop comparing Detroit to the Oilers

its like comparing HD tv to SD tv
Speaking of HD - is the PPV available in HD tonight? Or are the Oilers too cheap to go out an buy the cameras?

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Old
02-26-2008, 05:39 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 420ilerBuzz View Post
Speaking of HD - is the PPV available in HD tonight? Or are the Oilers too cheap to go out an buy the cameras?
It is never in HD. I don't think it's even worth it for the Oilers to buy the equipment for that. I'd be very surprised if any team in the NHL has HD PPV games.

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02-26-2008, 05:40 PM
  #33
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Oilers are 10-1 when i bet Vcash against them, hmmm should i bet against them this game?

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Old
02-26-2008, 05:44 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydlar View Post
Makes one wonder why Cleary can thrive in Detroit, but not here...
Cleary had the best season of his career prior to last year as a 22 year old in Edmonton. Here is a quote from Cleary in regards to playing for the Oilers under MacTavish:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Cleary
I was just a young kid in Edmonton. But when you play for Craig MacTavish you learn how to play away from the puck. That's a big reason I was able to make it in Detroit. That's a big reason why I'm here.
Cleary had a number of issues he had to clear up before he could emerge as a quality hockey player. Despite that, it's pretty evident that Edmonton did as good of a job as possible in terms of developing his talent. There are cases where these kids simply need to grow up before they'll develop into a player. There is no doubt playing in Detroit helped rejuvenate Cleary's career but I would argue a lot of it simply had to do with a shift in his overall attitude.

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02-26-2008, 05:48 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Actually no...but the Cleary playing for the Wings is not the player who played here.
He was well on his way. His offense wasn't there, but defensively he was getting to the point where he was making the right plays, and he was spending more time in the other end with the puck.

But that's not the point, I was relatively alone on that Cleary hill a long time on here so that's jaded my opinion on anyone who talks about him

Quote:
If you want to take a look at the impact of current injuries, which is what this GDT was all about, imagine the Oilers playing the Wings tonight without Horcoff (for Lidstrom), Staios (for Kronwall), Pitkanen (for Rafalski) Moreau (for Chelios), Pisani (for Cleary) and Garon (for Hasek).
I know precisely the impact.

Quote:
I don't think it would be pretty and my point about not using injuries as excuse tonight still stands.
That's basically what the Oilers have dealt with all year though (though Hasek has played closer to Roli's level than Garon's). Now add Torres,

Quote:
As, for a season long impact, sure there is an effect, but if losing players that are of a lower calibre causes you to plummet to 14th in your division, you've got a pretty bad team to start with.
But when you are continually losing players you rely on to play minutes and replace them with players who aren't as good, it all adds up. Detroit may not plummet to 14th with the same kind of injuries, but they'd probably be closer to the playoff battle.

Detroit's lost an expected 9 points in the last 10 games because of their injuries. Out of every 10 games they can expect to pick up about 14 points.

If Detroit lost that many over just 10 games, how many have the Oilers lost over the year because of injuries? I'm willing to concede that on the whole, the Wings have lost out on a higher quality of a player (Lidstrom is the best player on either team). That being said, there is a significant impact, and that impact probably jas been enough to keep the Oilers out of a playoff hunt.

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Old
02-26-2008, 06:09 PM
  #36
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I don't know why anyone would make an argument that injures are an excuse or have no effect on a team and that they should just tough it out. I remember a month ago I was watching a game and they had a report on this. The stat went something like: The teams who finished the tops had the lowest number of man games lost to injures. The teams who finished in the bottom had the highest number of man games lost to injury. I'll let you guess where Anaheim was and where Edmonton was in each respective list.

It would seem there is a direct correlation between injuries and a team's success. Can this be ignored while we are talking about how much this team sucks, how we should fire mact/klowe and we should get rid of everyone? I don't think so.

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Old
02-26-2008, 06:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
Cleary had the best season of his career prior to last year as a 22 year old in Edmonton. Here is a quote from Cleary in regards to playing for the Oilers under MacTavish:



Cleary had a number of issues he had to clear up before he could emerge as a quality hockey player. Despite that, it's pretty evident that Edmonton did as good of a job as possible in terms of developing his talent. There are cases where these kids simply need to grow up before they'll develop into a player. There is no doubt playing in Detroit helped rejuvenate Cleary's career but I would argue a lot of it simply had to do with a shift in his overall attitude.
I actually remember that quote now that you've posted it. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the guy is doing well.. just too bad we didn't keep him and discover the offensive side of his game as well. MacT is great for teaching people how to play without the puck tho.

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Old
02-26-2008, 06:37 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Actually no...but the Cleary playing for the Wings is not the player who played here.

If you want to take a look at the impact of current injuries, which is what this GDT was all about, imagine the Oilers playing the Wings tonight without Horcoff (for Lidstrom),Smid (for Kronwall), Souray (for Rafalski) Moreau (for Chelios), Stoll severe brain cramp(for Cleary) and Roli(for Hasek).

I don't think it would be pretty and my point about not using injuries as excuse tonight still stands.

As, for a season long impact, sure there is an effect, but if losing players that are of a lower calibre causes you to plummet to 14th in your division, you've got a pretty bad team to start with.
Fixed

Tonights game should be close if the Oilers goalie (my bet is on Roli) plays well early.

Can players still be dealt if they clear waivers first?

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Old
02-26-2008, 06:41 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydlar View Post
Makes one wonder why Cleary can thrive in Detroit, but not here...
Lidstrom. It's amazing how good a forward can look when he's got a great defenceman behind him.

Plus, Cleary was only 23 when he left here, and it's not like he's a top line star or anything now.

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Old
02-26-2008, 06:56 PM
  #40
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I'm not gonna lie, but with the playoffs all but a distant dream, no moves at the deadline, so still have a highly payed, under achieving roster, and no newly added picks at the deadline, these last 18 games are going to be depressing as hell. Can we just fastforward to FA already?

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02-26-2008, 07:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I'm not gonna lie, but with the playoffs all but a distant dream, no moves at the deadline, so still have a highly payed, under achieving roster, and no newly added picks at the deadline, these last 18 games are going to be depressing as hell. Can we just fastforward to FA already?
last year there was a dive for 5... this year it'll be rise for 5. Teams like TOR, ATL, CBJ and CHI will start tanking now making things exciting for us. Getting out of bottom 5 will keep this season interesting for me.

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02-26-2008, 07:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by rydlar View Post
I actually remember that quote now that you've posted it. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the guy is doing well.. just too bad we didn't keep him and discover the offensive side of his game as well. MacT is great for teaching people how to play without the puck tho.
We kept that guy way too long as it was. He just bled goals, couldn't gain the zone worth crap and was just overall tonnes of suck. He sure could score well in pre-season though.

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02-26-2008, 07:05 PM
  #43
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Makes one wonder why Cleary can thrive in Detroit, but not here...
I'm all for bashing Lowe and management for screwing up players, but Cleary isn't one of them.

Cleary is just an example of a player maturing. He was drafted with the expectation of being a super star. He never realized that potential and he completely reinvented his game to become a good NHLer. That takes time.

As for tonight ... kind of a weird game with a weird feel.

4-0 Detroit.

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Old
02-26-2008, 07:08 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I'm all for bashing Lowe and management for screwing up players, but Cleary isn't one of them.

Cleary is just an example of a player maturing. He was drafted with the expectation of being a super star. He never realized that potential and he completely reinvented his game to become a good NHLer. That takes time.

As for tonight ... kind of a weird game with a weird feel.

4-0 Detroit.
Lowe is still talking about "climbing back into the playoff race" (on Oilers.com) so I guess this a must win game.

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Old
02-26-2008, 07:15 PM
  #45
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Im guessing the lineup will be along the lines of this:

Penner - Gagner - Hemsky
Nilsson - Cogliano - Pisani
Sanderson - Stoll - Reasoner
GlenX - Brodziak - Stortini

Lets hope that the days events helped restore confidence in the team and they play a full 60. Usually the Oilers play decent against the wings, but since the Wings are so beat up Im guessing we due for an upset.

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Old
02-26-2008, 07:25 PM
  #46
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I'm going to the game at the last minute (found out a friend had tickets last night) and am glad that no one I'd actually want to see play is going to be missing from the lineup (sent away via trade, anyways).

I want the Oilers to play respectably, and a win would be very nice...if they play better than the last game I attended that'd be awesome.

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Old
02-26-2008, 07:49 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I'm all for bashing Lowe and management for screwing up players, but Cleary isn't one of them.

Cleary is just an example of a player maturing. He was drafted with the expectation of being a super star. He never realized that potential and he completely reinvented his game to become a good NHLer. That takes time.

As for tonight ... kind of a weird game with a weird feel.

4-0 Detroit.
Not as weird as being at the trading deadline game last year. Chanting "we want Smyth" and then cheering as Messier's jersey was raised to the rafters.

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Old
02-26-2008, 07:54 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I'm not gonna lie, but with the playoffs all but a distant dream, no moves at the deadline, so still have a highly payed, under achieving roster, and no newly added picks at the deadline, these last 18 games are going to be depressing as hell. Can we just fastforward to FA already?
Because free agency is always a fun time in Siberia

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Old
02-26-2008, 09:00 PM
  #49
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I'm calling it. Sanderson will somehow earn himself a contract for 08/09 down the stretch.

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Old
02-26-2008, 09:03 PM
  #50
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LOL Gene still thinks there is a chance for a playoff push?

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