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Old
02-26-2008, 10:22 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
I actually think Korpikoski will be a first liner in the NHL.
Yeah, and I think the next cover of Sports Illustrated will be my wife who will let me cheat on her with Ms. Sweden. [rolling my eyes]


Last edited by Beacon: 02-26-2008 at 10:29 PM.
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Old
02-26-2008, 10:26 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Hey genius, was I talking about random players who are drafted in crap-shoot rounds where you just take random people and can't really expect them to perform? Anything past the second round is just luck.

The first round is the only one that truly shows drafting skill. The second round may do so also, but to a lesser degree. The rest is just luck.
You have no idea what you are talking about.

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02-26-2008, 10:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Yeah, and I think the next cover of Sports Illustrated will be my wife who will let me cheat on her with Ms. Sweden.
that was a good one

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02-26-2008, 10:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Yeah, and I think the next cover of Sports Illustrated will be my wife who will let me cheat on her with Ms. Sweden.
Swing......and a miss. Kidding aside, Korpikoski just oozes talent. He just needs to put it together. I see him as a first liner if he does, too early to count him off IMO.

I think he'll be a Ranger when he's 23-24

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02-26-2008, 10:31 PM
  #30
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6 replies in a row by the same poster. Is that a record?

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02-26-2008, 10:34 PM
  #31
rangers4ever2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
Swing......and a miss. Kidding aside, Korpikoski just oozes talent. He just needs to put it together. I see him as a first liner if he does, too early to count him off IMO.

I think he'll be a Ranger when he's 23-24
i think he'd be a 4th liner for the rangers at some point next season

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02-26-2008, 10:36 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by rangers4ever2007 View Post
i think he'd be a 4th liner for the rangers at some point next season
A first liner when he's 23-24, JMO.

That's what I meant.

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02-26-2008, 10:36 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers4ever2007 View Post
i think he'd be a 4th liner for the rangers at some point next season
Niiiice! It's certainly worth drafting a 4th liner in the first round. Oh wait, I forgot - he has 3rd line potential.

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02-26-2008, 10:37 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
A first liner when he's 23-24, JMO.

That's what I meant.
Would you put money on it?

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Old
02-26-2008, 10:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Would you put money on it?
Yes, I would.

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02-26-2008, 10:38 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Niiiice! It's certainly worth drafting a 4th liner in the first round. Oh wait, I forgot - he has 3rd line potential.
that he does

though that 3rd line spot is and will be occupied by dawes or avery (when he resigns)

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Old
02-26-2008, 10:39 PM
  #37
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drafting = crapshoot..


squishy, squishy, squishy!

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Old
02-26-2008, 11:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by dank View Post
drafting = crapshoot..


squishy, squishy, squishy!
So why is it that our crapshoot picks always become crap? It's ok for some kids to bust, but where are the first rounders who overachieved... or just... achieved.

Fire Slats. And fire Christer Rockstrom, NHL's most overrated scout. Who was the last Euro first rounder he got for us? Brendl? Isn't Rocker getting paid to make sure that the 'common opinion' isn't listened to when it's wrong?

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Old
02-26-2008, 11:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
So why is it that our crapshoot picks always become crap? It's ok for some kids to bust, but where are the first rounders who overachieved... or just... achieved.

Fire Slats. And fire Christer Rockstrom, NHL's most overrated scout. Who was the last Euro first rounder he got for us? Brendl? Isn't Rocker getting paid to make sure that the 'common opinion' isn't listened to when it's wrong?
he got Kim Johnsson I think that was the last one to have success in the NHL. And Marek Zidlicky.

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Old
02-27-2008, 12:16 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
So why is it that our crapshoot picks always become crap? It's ok for some kids to bust, but where are the first rounders who overachieved... or just... achieved.

Fire Slats. And fire Christer Rockstrom, NHL's most overrated scout. Who was the last Euro first rounder he got for us? Brendl? Isn't Rocker getting paid to make sure that the 'common opinion' isn't listened to when it's wrong?
Wait what? I think the problem is the rangers org doesnt listen to him more often! but if you want examples of euros that have been drafted cherepanov, anisimov, prucha, lundqvist, and even though you have already for some odd reason given up on him, Korpikoski. Dont also forget he found yet another gem in the rough in jan marek. Who though never made it to the NHL turned out to be a solid pick despite being picked in like the 7th round. Now I ask you this when was the last time the rangers drafted a Euro that was a bust? Rockstrom is one of the best Scouts in the NHL. We are very lucky to have him.

As for Korps shows a lot of promise in developing into a decent 2nd line forward, which is expected of a late first round pick and what was a relatively weak draft. The guy is only 21 and your already writing him off? he has shown steady progress in the AHL and I believe we'll be seeing him on the rangers roster as a 3rd line winger next year with opportunities to play on the 2nd as the season moves along.

As for Montoya, at the time he was drafted, it seemed like a reasonable pick. Our starter was Dunham, Lundqvist was on no ones radar, and Blackburn's recovery was getting worse by the day. The only problem I had was how long we waited to trade him. When we finally had Lundqvist and knew what we had Montoya should have been sold off.

Im also not seeing the logic of the fact that since Lundmark and Brendl were busts it somehow correlates into the possibility that Sangs and Chere will be. Of course theres potential for the two of them to not succeed, but thats the risk of every prospect. Both players show a lot of promise and the fact that brendl and lundmark never became anything should not take anything away from that. I have no clue why you even compared them... maybe you can explain?

Edit: as the poster above me added. Rockstrom also found Zidlicky and Johnnson improving his resume even more.

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Old
02-27-2008, 12:56 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
Wait what? I think the problem is the rangers org doesnt listen to him more often! but if you want examples of euros that have been drafted cherepanov, anisimov, prucha, lundqvist, and even though you have already for some odd reason given up on him, Korpikoski. Dont also forget he found yet another gem in the rough in jan marek. Who though never made it to the NHL turned out to be a solid pick despite being picked in like the 7th round. Now I ask you this when was the last time the rangers drafted a Euro that was a bust? Rockstrom is one of the best Scouts in the NHL. We are very lucky to have him.

As for Korps shows a lot of promise in developing into a decent 2nd line forward, which is expected of a late first round pick and what was a relatively weak draft. The guy is only 21 and your already writing him off? he has shown steady progress in the AHL and I believe we'll be seeing him on the rangers roster as a 3rd line winger next year with opportunities to play on the 2nd as the season moves along.

As for Montoya, at the time he was drafted, it seemed like a reasonable pick. Our starter was Dunham, Lundqvist was on no ones radar, and Blackburn's recovery was getting worse by the day. The only problem I had was how long we waited to trade him. When we finally had Lundqvist and knew what we had Montoya should have been sold off.

Im also not seeing the logic of the fact that since Lundmark and Brendl were busts it somehow correlates into the possibility that Sangs and Chere will be. Of course theres potential for the two of them to not succeed, but thats the risk of every prospect. Both players show a lot of promise and the fact that brendl and lundmark never became anything should not take anything away from that. I have no clue why you even compared them... maybe you can explain?

Edit: as the poster above me added. Rockstrom also found Zidlicky and Johnnson improving his resume even more.
and he also found Tomas Kloucek. Ever since he was dealt to the Preds he was not the same player. I wish we still had him.

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Old
02-27-2008, 01:04 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
The first round is the only one that truly shows drafting skill.
WRONG. Absolutely WRONG. The 1st round does have the most pressure and prestige, but the real skill of an organizations draft skill comes is later rounds. Anyone can pick a choose from a pool of 30 players that are watched with the most scrutiny. It takes skill to see someone in the 7th round (Henke) etc. If you think I'm a fool, look at Detroit:
Detroit's average draft position (Players on the team, and drafted by the organization): 131.5 Overall
Out of their entire lineup of home grown talent, ONE player was taken from the first round, and even he was 29th overall (Kronwall). And guess what, the Red Wings are the best team in the league, and have been for last 10-15 years all because of their draft skill in the later rounds, NOT the first rounds (granted their first round picks were usually high because the team was usually good).

Skill, come draft time, is found in the later rounds, luck is found in the first.

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Old
02-27-2008, 01:29 AM
  #43
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Can't say that I believe Montoya and Korps were bad picks for where they were taken. Neither one was a stretch and both would've been taken right around the same spot anyway.

I mean if we're going to go with that approach we'd have to also mention the Rangers not moving assets to get Andrew Ladd (whom I loved in that draft and still think will be an NHL player). He was also moved today for underperforming.

I have more of a problem with reach picks at the wrong time and I don't think I need to name names there.

To me Korpikoski will be an NHL player. It's just a matter of how much offense he'll bring to the table. Montoya I also think will be an NHL goalie. This trade had more to do with Lundqvist leaving little room for a young goalie right now than it does with Montoya's long term ability.

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02-27-2008, 01:34 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Can't say that I believe Montoya and Korps were bad picks for where they were taken. Neither one was a stretch and both would've been taken right around the same spot anyway.

I mean if we're going to go with that approach we'd have to also mention the Rangers not moving assets to get Andrew Ladd (whom I loved in that draft and still think will be an NHL player). He was also moved today for underperforming.

I have more of a problem with reach picks at the wrong time and I don't think I need to name names there.

To me Korpikoski will be an NHL player. It's just a matter of how much offense he'll bring to the table. Montoya I also think will be an NHL goalie. This trade had more to do with Lundqvist leaving little room for a young goalie right now than it does with Montoya's long term ability.
Edge-the one thing with Montoya though is he hasn't been able to stay healthy long enough to show enough consistency to become an NHL goalie. Out of training camp I thought he outplayed Valiquette--so I'll agree that he's close but he's still going to have to get over the injuries. Korpikoski I don't think is that far away. I could see him on the Rangers roster next season maybe out of training camp.

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02-27-2008, 01:41 AM
  #45
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Edge-the one thing with Montoya though is he hasn't been able to stay healthy long enough to show enough consistency to become an NHL goalie. Out of training camp I thought he outplayed Valiquette--so I'll agree that he's close but he's still going to have to get over the injuries. Korpikoski I don't think is that far away. I could see him on the Rangers roster next season maybe out of training camp.
I think part of it has been injuries. I think the other part is that he's a kid who really needs a season where someone roles the dice and gives him 60 games and let's him sink or swim. Even healthy, I don't know if the Rangers system would do that.

I think there's a reason that this organization's top farm team has not produced a star NHL goalie for itself since Mike Richter. Lundqvist was developed in Sweden. Even guys who served as number 1 goalies at some point (Cloutier, Holmqvist, etc) seemed to go elsewhere to get themselves in that position to at least hit that level.

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02-27-2008, 01:53 AM
  #46
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Sather has still yet to provide the Ranger with the piece of the puzzle that is missing. a PPQB Dman.

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02-27-2008, 02:27 AM
  #47
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say what you want about the ranger's success rate with first round draft picks, the act is that this system was bereft of talent 4 years ago and today it is not. The Dubinskys, Callahans, Dawes and Staals are already contributing, and their is talent behind them. Who cares if the Rangers first rounders haven't been consistently great if the system is still producing talent? Why does it matter what round that talent was drafted in?

Knowing what we know now, of course I would rather have selected a different player at #6 overall in 2003. But, even without Montoya developing as hoped, this team and organization is in far better shape than it was on that june afternoon almost 4 years ago.

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02-27-2008, 07:08 AM
  #48
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Open Letter to Slats

Glen,

Seeing our former #6 overall pick get traded in a relatively minor spare parts deadline deal only three years after he was drafted...

Witnessing that an unsigned defenseman who, although an excellent puck transporter, is mediocre at best in his own zone is worth a top 6 potential forward and a #1 in a deep draft...

Observing that legit starting goalies in the NHL are worth no more than a second round pick...

Learning that ONLY Vezina-caliber goalies ever return anything substantial in trades (Luongo is the last one I can think of who garnered real value)...

And realizing that our #1 goaltender was a seventh round pick and our current top goaltending prospect was an undrafted free agent...

...never, ever spend anything higher than a 4th round pick on a goalie ever again.

Thank you,

BRF

Pardon the tongue in cheek delivery, but I am now firmly on record that a top 100 pick on a goaltender is a wasted pick. I want my team to draft accordingly.

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02-27-2008, 07:24 AM
  #49
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Pretty much true. I have done what someone else suggested, which is flip-flop Lundqvist and Montoya in my mind. I have made Lundqvist the highly touted hotshot prospect drafted with an high draft pick, and made Montoya the longshot. There. Anger is a distant memory.

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Old
02-27-2008, 07:34 AM
  #50
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I've heard about this in defense of Rocker for 15 years now. "He drafted poorly before, but look at our great prospects now."

Who says that Anisimov will turn into anything? Who says that Cherry will? Marek? Prucha is hardly a game breaker. Can you really say that he's an above average NHLer?

But we did trade Leetch for a pair of Euros.

Lundqvist... did you watch the MSG special on him? Even the Rangers staff admit that nobody expected this from him at the time. If the draft is crapshoot, then late rounds is really pure luck. Same for Kim Jonsson. You will stumble on a few players in late rounds who overperform.

But look at the first couple of rounds. Who did Rocker get for us?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
I think the problem is the rangers org doesnt listen to him more often! but if you want examples of euros that have been drafted cherepanov, anisimov, prucha, lundqvist, and even though you have already for some odd reason given up on him, Korpikoski. Dont also forget he found yet another gem in the rough in jan marek.

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