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Old
02-27-2008, 08:20 AM
  #51
BJCOLLINS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
No one would say that...

An "Annoying user" may support your claim. But if you were to look at their stats you'd find that their numbers are very similar. Although Biron has played almost 200 more games and is 2 years younger.

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02-27-2008, 08:24 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
That doesn't make much sense. Neither Tavares or Hedman will be generational players. And 20 franchise players in 1 draft???
I agree Hedman and Tavares are very good Franchise players rather than generational players, some will rank them one way or the other. But imo Hedman is a generational player D and should be ranked 1st.(And the drafting centrals agree with me)

And yes, 20 franchise players. The draft is ridiculous. Best year in a long time for finland and sweden, some very strong russians, US and Canada right in the mix.


Last edited by SOLR: 02-27-2008 at 08:34 AM.
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Old
02-27-2008, 08:29 AM
  #53
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It's not unreasonable to look at 2009 the way SOLR is considering the abundance of first liners and #1 D that came out of the '03 draft. Franchise and generational tags might be inappropriate at this point...but damn does it look like a good draft.

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02-27-2008, 08:29 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
what planet are you on ?

20 franchise players in 09? Name one draft when 20 franchise players came out of it?
the best draft of all time in 79 produced several including Bourque, but 20 wake uo buddy , if Tavares , Hedman , and 3 others turn into legit top tier players , you have had a great draft , but 20 OF THEM
Its called potential. 2003 had the same potential. Theres over 20 potential franchise players.(Some will fail obviously)

Guys, do your homeworks...

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Old
02-27-2008, 08:44 AM
  #55
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Gainey added a decent young player and a pick for Rivet, a pick this season for Huet. That's 3 young assets along with our regular draft choices these last 6-7 years. Also removing 8 million off the payroll if he would have kept the above two. Gainey is a position to trade 3 good young players for a star(Lecavalier). Or sign a UFA(Hossa) and deal the 3 assets to move up in a draft(2009) and acquire a franchise player also.

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02-27-2008, 08:46 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Gainey added a decent young player and a pick for Rivet, a pick this season for Huet. That's 3 young assets along with our regular draft choices these last 6-7 years. Along with removing 8 million off the payroll if he would have kept the above two. Gainey is a position to trade 3 good young players for a star(Lecavalier). Or sign a UFA(Hossa) and deal the 3 assets to move in a draft(2009) and acquire a franchise player also.
Voila. (Will take more assets than that for Lecavalier, but you got it right)

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02-27-2008, 08:47 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Voila. (Will take more assets than that for Lecavalier, but you got it right)
We may get Lecavalier for nothing if he decides to test UFA waters

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02-27-2008, 08:52 AM
  #58
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I'm definetly happy Gainey didn't give up the equivelent of what Pittsburgh did for a potential rental player. Wish he could have landed more for Huet but better than losing him for nothing and Price and Halak could be one hell of a goalie tandem for us for years to come. We had one hell of a logjam in goal and Halak needed to be in the NHL and this also gives Danis a chance to be Hamilton's main starter, who was getting next to no playing time.

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02-27-2008, 08:52 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Its called potential. 2003 had the same potential. Theres over 20 potential franchise players.(Some will fail obviously)

Guys, do your homeworks...
how many LEGIT franchise players are there in the entire NHL? 5, 6, 7

Legit franchise players meaning , they have the ability to carry you to the next level , they make people around them better , they put fans in the seats , etc.

CROSBY
MALKIN
LECAVALIER
BRODUER
LUONGO
OVECHKIN

you dont go much beyond this . There are many in that next cut like Iggy, Zetterberg, Heatley , but FRANCHISE PLAYERS ???

This doesnt mean that Goborik because by default he is minny`s best player is a franchise player , same for Rick Nash , he made no one better , he didn`t take them
to the playoffs on his back .

You are way off on the potential 20 crap , not a chance , 20-30 very good players with Tavares , and Hedman someday in the top tier fine , BUT NO CHANCE ON FRANCHISE PLAYERS .

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Old
02-27-2008, 09:02 AM
  #60
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i totaly agree. i did not want hossa from the beginning. he would have been the wrong guy to get.

i would have been happy with Oli jokinen, but i guess the price was too high for him too.

would have been happy is he pulled some otehr minor move, like get Stoll, or backman for a 4th, but in the end, i am happy huet is gone, and happy he did not sell the farm for an overatted hossa

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02-27-2008, 09:15 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
how many LEGIT franchise players are there in the entire NHL? 5, 6, 7

Legit franchise players meaning , they have the ability to carry you to the next level , they make people around them better , they put fans in the seats , etc.

CROSBY
MALKIN
LECAVALIER
BRODUER
LUONGO
OVECHKIN

you dont go much beyond this . There are many in that next cut like Iggy, Zetterberg, Heatley , but FRANCHISE PLAYERS ???

This doesnt mean that Goborik because by default he is minny`s best player is a franchise player , same for Rick Nash , he made no one better , he didn`t take them
to the playoffs on his back .

You are way off on the potential 20 crap , not a chance , 20-30 very good players with Tavares , and Hedman someday in the top tier fine , BUT NO CHANCE ON FRANCHISE PLAYERS .
You are keying in on his phrasing... ake the words out and change them with words that are more your style...

He's sayng 2009 is projected to be unbelievably deep. By his accounts, twice as deep as 2008.

Perhaps Timmins even chimed in to Bob saying 2009 is the way to go... nobody knows... But in the Co. I trust. We certainly are not hurting prospect wise, so why NOT wait until an incredible draft year?

BTW, if he's right, it makes complete sense in MTL's pov.

We STILL have our picks for this year 2008 so its all good...

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02-27-2008, 09:32 AM
  #62
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As I see it, we should be considered contenders next year. That second round draft pick might be used next season at the deadline to bring in some help for the final stretch and the playoffs, too.

I didn't understand why Gainey moved Huet at first, thinking that he could have had a lot more for him. The problem is that there is no market for UFA goaltenders. The only team that might have traded a first for Huet would have been Ottawa, and you don't trade that kind of asset to a division rival. We might have been able to get more from Colorado too, who knows.

I'm glad we didn't trade 3 roster players for a rental, and the players responded well last night with that big win. They seem happy to see that the ownership still has confidence in them, and that they believe in the great chemistry around the club.

(BTW, I'm posting on my brother's account, so he might not endorse everything I said here lol)

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:35 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
You are keying in on his phrasing... ake the words out and change them with words that are more your style...

He's sayng 2009 is projected to be unbelievably deep. By his accounts, twice as deep as 2008.

Perhaps Timmins even chimed in to Bob saying 2009 is the way to go... nobody knows... But in the Co. I trust. We certainly are not hurting prospect wise, so why NOT wait until an incredible draft year?

BTW, if he's right, it makes complete sense in MTL's pov.

We STILL have our picks for this year 2008 so its all good...
then say a deep draft , many quality players, not 20 potential franchise players
thats all I ask . Call as it is . Its like our top list of prospects on this board , if 4-5 hit and stick and play well , thats great , but to say we have 20 starters on this list is stupid. The thing that BG hsd done better than most GM`S , is this

1) managed the cap well
2) no BS bandaid deals
3) drafted and developed well
4) flexibility with depth, dollars ,and potential moves

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Old
02-27-2008, 12:30 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
how many LEGIT franchise players are there in the entire NHL? 5, 6, 7

Legit franchise players meaning , they have the ability to carry you to the next level , they make people around them better , they put fans in the seats , etc.

CROSBY
MALKIN
LECAVALIER
BRODUER
LUONGO
OVECHKIN

you dont go much beyond this . There are many in that next cut like Iggy, Zetterberg, Heatley , but FRANCHISE PLAYERS ???

This doesnt mean that Goborik because by default he is minny`s best player is a franchise player , same for Rick Nash , he made no one better , he didn`t take them
to the playoffs on his back .

You are way off on the potential 20 crap , not a chance , 20-30 very good players with Tavares , and Hedman someday in the top tier fine , BUT NO CHANCE ON FRANCHISE PLAYERS .

I call a franchise player a guy who is a franchise's best palyer and their cornerstone player for a decade to 15 years. Players like Alfredsson, Ignila, Niedermayer fall into that catergory. I would there are 25-30 of those players in the league

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Old
02-27-2008, 02:48 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
Good job Bob , you made the right move going with Price as your horse in the pipes .
Huet wasnt going to sign here , and he wasnt " the guy moving forward ".
You also had the guts and smarts not to get ripped off for Hossa, a proven poor playoff performer , and a grossly overpaid player this summer. According to BG they wanted 4 elements and 3 of them " would of played with us tonight" .

you can blast him all you want , but the deal would of been somthing like this

Higgins, Lapierre, Lats, and a first in 2008

Lapierre, S. Kostistin , Latendresse and maybe Emelin

FOR A RENTAL player who will command 7-8 mil for what 35 goals ?

I am not a huge Higgins fan but his 25-30 goals a year , isn`t much less than what
Hossa would give you anyway , and eventually he comes at LESS THAN HALF THE COST .

Congrats Bob for not mortgaging the future which took years to rebuild the stockpile of kids. Great job for realizing we are a very good team ,but not a player away from a cup at ANY COST .

Congrats for being one of the few up and coming teams , 'WHO HAVE MANAGED THE CAP WELL" , building for the day when that rental deal at the deadline maybe the difference.

And Kudos to Regier again for walking away from another " dumb deal " . For the same money he could get Streit and Stuart in the off season , better than an " overpaid good player in Campbell" .
I fail to see how we could congratulate Gainey for not mortaging the future and having so much confidence in the kids while he didn't remove his offer from the table, Shero came with a better offer....Gainey was ready to mortage the future, especially if guys like Higgins and O'Byrne were included.

Besides, I'm really wondering if the Huet trade to Atlanta's rival had anything to do with Waddell going for the Pens trade.....

As far as trading Huet, even if I acknowledge that the market was not that great for a goalie, I still believe that in that case, keeping Huet had greater value. Sure we would have lost him for nothing, though nobody lost sleep over it when we lost Souray.....

My kudos to Gainey is for standing up and answering the questions as great as he did. But he didn't do a good job for me yesterday. I really don't understand how his supposed "sideways" moves would not have been needed as well. More grit, and better defensive awareness would have been needed on the bottom 2 lines with the playoffs coming.

My other congratulations to him is that, if we keep it, he's giving me another draft pick in 2009. Great year that will be!

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Old
02-27-2008, 03:13 PM
  #66
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The only thing I'm upset about is the lack of return on Huet.

I think it was time to bring up Halak and let he and Price go and I've said this for months.

I'm also glad we didn't give the farm away for Hossa, although it obviously would've been nice to have him.

I find that people come in one of two flavours here, either Gainey can do no wrong or Gainey can do no right. It just doesn't work that way. I wasn't thrilled with the Huet deal by any stretch but at the end of the day, Gainey does a lot more right than he does wrong. Regardless of some of the mistakes I believe he's made, I still support him and I'm glad he's our GM.

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02-27-2008, 03:39 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
im just repeating what ive already said


Gainey did the right thing.

He got a fair return for Huet who was going to become a 4-5 MILLION dollar player.Montreal would never have been able to give him that and make this team work.

We had Huet from $600.000 to $2.8 million and he earned every penny BUT i dont think there much if ANY value left going foward ,not at 4 to 5 million per year.Let someone else make that mistake


Biron from Buffalo dealt for a 2nd round pick .

Excellent points, good post!

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02-27-2008, 03:56 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
Good job Bob , you made the right move going with Price as your horse in the pipes .
Huet wasnt going to sign here , and he wasnt " the guy moving forward ".
You also had the guts and smarts not to get ripped off for Hossa, a proven poor playoff performer , and a grossly overpaid player this summer. According to BG they wanted 4 elements and 3 of them " would of played with us tonight" .

you can blast him all you want , but the deal would of been somthing like this

Higgins, Lapierre, Lats, and a first in 2008

Lapierre, S. Kostistin , Latendresse and maybe Emelin

FOR A RENTAL player who will command 7-8 mil for what 35 goals ?

I am not a huge Higgins fan but his 25-30 goals a year , isn`t much less than what
Hossa would give you anyway , and eventually he comes at LESS THAN HALF THE COST .

Congrats Bob for not mortgaging the future which took years to rebuild the stockpile of kids. Great job for realizing we are a very good team ,but not a player away from a cup at ANY COST .

Congrats for being one of the few up and coming teams , 'WHO HAVE MANAGED THE CAP WELL" , building for the day when that rental deal at the deadline maybe the difference.

And Kudos to Regier again for walking away from another " dumb deal " . For the same money he could get Streit and Stuart in the off season , better than an " overpaid good player in Campbell" .
You guys are lucky to have a smart GM like Bob Gainey, he knows how to not give away 1st rounders. Its smart that now he can develop Price, great move by Gainey. Gainey didn't go for Hossa which is smart, PIT just royally screwed themselves imo by giving up a 1st and Esposito.

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02-27-2008, 03:58 PM
  #69
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You guys are lucky to have a smart GM like Bob Gainey, he knows how to not give away 1st rounders. Its smart that now he can develop Price, great move by Gainey. Gainey didn't go for Hossa which is smart, PIT just royally screwed themselves imo by giving up a 1st and Esposito.
Not sure it's the right board to talk about how badly Esposito will be missed by Pittsburgh....

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02-27-2008, 04:05 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I fail to see how we could congratulate Gainey for not mortaging the future and having so much confidence in the kids while he didn't remove his offer from the table, Shero came with a better offer....Gainey was ready to mortage the future, especially if guys like Higgins and O'Byrne were included.

Besides, I'm really wondering if the Huet trade to Atlanta's rival had anything to do with Waddell going for the Pens trade.....

As far as trading Huet, even if I acknowledge that the market was not that great for a goalie, I still believe that in that case, keeping Huet had greater value. Sure we would have lost him for nothing, though nobody lost sleep over it when we lost Souray.....

My kudos to Gainey is for standing up and answering the questions as great as he did. But he didn't do a good job for me yesterday. I really don't understand how his supposed "sideways" moves would not have been needed as well. More grit, and better defensive awareness would have been needed on the bottom 2 lines with the playoffs coming.

My other congratulations to him is that, if we keep it, he's giving me another draft pick in 2009. Great year that will be!
He wasn't ready to mortgage the future.
He said they were asking for something that he wasn't willing to give, he made an offer back with less elements involved and then they made the deal with Pittsburgh.

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02-27-2008, 04:08 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The only thing I'm upset about is the lack of return on Huet.

I think it was time to bring up Halak and let he and Price go and I've said this for months.

I'm also glad we didn't give the farm away for Hossa, although it obviously would've been nice to have him.

I find that people come in one of two flavours here, either Gainey can do no wrong or Gainey can do no right. It just doesn't work that way. I wasn't thrilled with the Huet deal by any stretch but at the end of the day, Gainey does a lot more right than he does wrong. Regardless of some of the mistakes I believe he's made, I still support him and I'm glad he's our GM.
Exactly.
I have learned not to judge his moves right off the bat because Gainey and co know alot more about the team, the players, and everything else involved then I ever will.
He's been moving the team in the right direction this far and I like the way the future is looking.
No doubt there was, and will be some bad moves, but as long as we keep progressing I'm not going to question him much.

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02-27-2008, 04:28 PM
  #72
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I know everyone wants to throw Bob under the bus but you gotta give it to him.. he is very patient with the young guys and I hope he is still here in a few years when EVERYONE is gellin' and we get our 25th. Seriously every superstar out there is at one point in time home grown. and with the salary cap in the "new" NHL its very hard to be good for several years and i think Bob has looked at every possiblity to make the team better and I trust Bob's knowledge of Hockey. We will have a Home Grown superstar custom fit to the Montreal Canadiens and everyone will forget about the disapointment they had yesterday. Marian Hossa wasnt Always 100pts player. in fact he has only done it once. I know there is more to hockey than points but I garantee SOMEONE in the current organisation Montreal/Hamilton will hit 100 one day. as Montreal Canadiens fans we seem to have been conditioned to wining the cup every so many years ans now that we are in our longuest winless streak ever we must not get impatient and Give up on our futur.

Go Habs GO!!!

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02-27-2008, 04:32 PM
  #73
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BG must be doing SOMETHING right cause we ARE at the top of the league with the expectancy at the start of the season to not even make the playoffs. LONGTERM poeple!

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02-27-2008, 04:47 PM
  #74
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It's weird because the angle I'm looking at it, it seems like a very good move since Bryzgalov was acquired FOR NOTHING on the waivers!! And I think Bryzgalov is better and has a way brighter futur than Huet!

Don't you realize that they weren't alot of offers for goalkeepers?
Do you realize that Price HAS to gain some experience in the playoffs and it's not by having Huet in the net that this will happen! If you want the Habs to be a top team in the years to come, you keeper has to perform in the playoffs and for that, he must have some playoff experience! Huet was going to leave at the end of the year anyway, so what's the big deal??

But hey, according to you, it wasn't a good move ON ANY ANGLES!
I agree 100%

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02-27-2008, 05:04 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
We got a late second rounder for Huet. It wasn't a good move on any angles you look at it.
Agree...last i'm going to say about it i think we beat the dead horse yesterday about it

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