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Old
02-27-2008, 12:56 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
Umberger can play, and I believe has played, center very well. The transition would not be hard for a player with his versatility.
Just stop it man.. Jones is not more important then Carter.. Enough already.

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02-27-2008, 12:59 PM
  #27
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I am tired of these threads about Carter and Umberger leaving. Listen up, they are both RFA's meaning another team has to offer them a big contract, which will not happen, especially since its the year Tavares gets drafted.

And also remember when a player gets a new contract you have to subtract the old contract. So lets do a little math, lets say someone offers Carter 3.5 million, which is giving up a first, second, and a third, his old contract of 1million comes off the cap. So its a pay raise of 2.5 million which can be compensated by losing our third pairing captain. Umberger's raise will be less since he's got a higher salary now and will probably get less.

everyone needs to just chill for a couple of months, theres still games to be played now

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02-27-2008, 01:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Just stop it man.. Jones is not more important then Carter.. Enough already.
Exactly. Carter is potential 1st-line material. Jones will never be more than a 3rd-line defenseman. Yes, Jones is decent, but will never be anything more than that. What we have seen of him this year is a step up, and he may have similar future seasons, but I think this is all we will see of this guy. If we can get a puck-moving defenseman in some sort of deal involving Jones, Kukkonen can easily fill his shoes, and do a better job at it.

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02-27-2008, 01:04 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Just stop it man.. Jones is not more important then Carter.. Enough already.
I don't quite understand why so many people are so hot on Carter. We have an incredibly strong group of forwards and we need solid defenseman that can move the puck. Jones will come cheaply and has more upside than most people give him credit for.

Carter, thus far, has not been living up to his potential, not even close. Do you really want to pay top dollar for a 3rd line center or would you rather spend that money on a FA defenseman.

Bottom line is that it would be better for the Flyers to sign Jones and not Carter than to sign Carter and not Jones

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02-27-2008, 01:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
I don't quite understand why so many people are so hot on Carter. We have an incredibly strong group of forwards and we need solid defenseman that can move the puck. Jones will come cheaply and has more upside than most people give him credit for.
Hi John Stevens. Does Jones have better team concept then Kukkonen?

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Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
Carter, thus far, has not been living up to his potential, not even close. Do you really want to pay top dollar for a 3rd line center or would you rather spend that money on a FA defenseman.
Top dollar? How do you know what Homer is going to sign him for? Carter is having better PPG then Jokinen in his 3rd NHL year.

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02-27-2008, 01:11 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
Bottom line is that it would be better for the Flyers to sign Jones and not Carter than to sign Carter and not Jones
you'd rather sign a third pairing defenseman than a potential first line centre?

Better yet, you think a third pairing defenseman is more important than (at worst) a 25-goal scoring third line centre?


you crazy, boy

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02-27-2008, 01:14 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Hi John Stevens. Does Jones have better team concept then Kukkonen?

Top dollar? How do you know what Homer is going to sign him for? Carter is having better PPG then Jokinen in his 3rd NHL year.
I shouldn't have said top dollar but you and I both know Carter will most likely want more than he is proven he is worth.

Just for ****s and giggles lets look at these two by the numbers

Carter
20g 18A 38Pts +2

Jones
4G 22A 26 Pts +5

and Jones played (I believe 5) fewer games. Don't be suprised if Carter wants 3.5-4 million a year and Jones signs for about 1.5mil

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02-27-2008, 01:16 PM
  #33
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You are right I stopped giggling when you said Jones deserves 1.5M

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02-27-2008, 01:17 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
The core of the team heading into next year: Briere, Richards, Carter, Gagne, Lupul, Hartnell, Timonen, Coburn and Parent.

The rest: Knuble, Umberger, Upshall, Downie, Prospal, Kapanen, Cote, Jones, Hatcher, Smith, Modry, Kukkonen.

The teams biggest need heading into the offseason is another legit 2/3 defenseman that can move the puck.

2 years of Tomas Kaberle (overrated) isn't worth Carter, which would only open another gaping hole up the middle.
Carter for Kaberle would be hard to do but I'd really, really think about it. Kaberle isn't overrated in terms of his salary. He easily earns that. He is signed for the right price and I am sure that were weren't the only team that would potentially overpay for him. However, Giroux for Kaberle I do without any hesitation whatsoever.

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02-27-2008, 01:18 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
I don't quite understand why so many people are so hot on Carter. We have an incredibly strong group of forwards and we need solid defenseman that can move the puck. Jones will come cheaply and has more upside than most people give him credit for.

Carter, thus far, has not been living up to his potential, not even close. Do you really want to pay top dollar for a 3rd line center or would you rather spend that money on a FA defenseman.

Bottom line is that it would be better for the Flyers to sign Jones and not Carter than to sign Carter and not Jones
once again, forwards does not equivocate to centers. why was umberger moved to wing this year? let me tell you: he is infinitely more effective there. carter is a much better option at center than RJ and i love umberger. if it comes down to it, i take carter every time. he'll be getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.25-3.75mil/year. homer is probably trying to nickel and dime him down a bit, but thats what it'll boil down to it.

no team in the league is going to have the depth of quality NHL centers that we have. centers are much harder to find and groom, we need to keep the good ones we got. we have depth at wing and have been good at drafting quality wingers. just plug 'em in as their contracts expire.

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02-27-2008, 01:22 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
Carter is so underrated around here its ridiculous.

The only way i even think about trading Carter is if we get Kaberle in return. Carter is absolutely priority #1 no questions
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Originally Posted by Jules801 View Post
Not in my eyes!
I am on the same page here. In my opinion, Carter is #1 and the only way he gets moved is if we have waived Hatcher, Kapanen moved Knuble and still cant sign the guy. And I dont trade him for an old rental, I need someone at least the level of Kaberle.

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.... except John Stevens, who 0 percent like.
Dont forget about JXC! .00001% like him.

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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Carter for Kaberle would be hard to do but I'd really, really think about it. Kaberle isn't overrated in terms of his salary. He easily earns that. He is signed for the right price and I am sure that were weren't the only team that would potentially overpay for him. However, Giroux for Kaberle I do without any hesitation whatsoever.
I would think really hard about Carter and Kaberle, and probably do it, Giroux for Kaberle yes, as long as we extend Lupul first.

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02-27-2008, 01:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by 27roenick97 View Post
once again, forwards does not equivocate to centers. why was umberger moved to wing this year? let me tell you: he is infinitely more effective there. carter is a much better option at center than RJ and i love umberger. if it comes down to it, i take carter every time. he'll be getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.25-3.75mil/year. homer is probably trying to nickel and dime him down a bit, but thats what it'll boil down to it.

no team in the league is going to have the depth of quality NHL centers that we have. centers are much harder to find and groom, we need to keep the good ones we got. we have depth at wing and have been good at drafting quality wingers. just plug 'em in as their contracts expire.
You sir have persuaded me to change my stance. I still maintain Randy Jones is a severely underrated defender and will be a force for whatever team he plays for and I would hate to see him go.

Our biggest problem is currently defense. Yet, it has been brought to my attention (by everyone on this board) that loosing carter would shift our biggest problem from defense to down the middle.

Carter>Jones

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Old
02-27-2008, 01:29 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
as long as we extend Lupul first.
Exactly how long do we have Lupul for?

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02-27-2008, 01:38 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
I don't quite understand why so many people are so hot on Carter. We have an incredibly strong group of forwards and we need solid defenseman that can move the puck. Jones will come cheaply and has more upside than most people give him credit for.

Carter, thus far, has not been living up to his potential, not even close. Do you really want to pay top dollar for a 3rd line center or would you rather spend that money on a FA defenseman.

Bottom line is that it would be better for the Flyers to sign Jones and not Carter than to sign Carter and not Jones
well i dont understand why people are so ape s*%^ for Randy Jones. He is another Chris Therian with slightly better offensive numbers. Turns the puck over, pinches too much, burnt like toast and so on. Lasse over Jones. And Carter's potential and value is worth more than Jones any day and if anyone cant see that they better stop living the lie called Randy Jones.

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Old
02-27-2008, 04:25 PM
  #40
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Exactly how long do we have Lupul for?
One more year I believe.

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Old
02-27-2008, 04:27 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
One more year I believe.
Well ****, here's to hoping we extend his contract then. Thanks for letting me know.

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Old
02-27-2008, 04:33 PM
  #42
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Well ****, here's to hoping we extend his contract then. Thanks for letting me know.
We can't do that until next year.

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Old
02-27-2008, 04:33 PM
  #43
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We can't do that until next year.
Yeah, just saying for next year.

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Old
02-27-2008, 04:51 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
Don't be suprised if Carter wants 3.5-4 million a year and Jones signs for about 1.5mil
thats what coburn signed for

just to reiterate the truth
Carter>Jones
Coburn>Jones

why are we even talking about this......lock this thread before someone says something stupid like Jones is more important to sign than Carter

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02-27-2008, 05:18 PM
  #45
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so would you guys do : Jones for Kabby
















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Old
02-27-2008, 05:30 PM
  #46
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I think there's quite a bit of salary coming off soon. It's safe to say that Hatcher, Smith, Knuble, and Kapanen are probably adios after this year. Don't forget we've also got Turner Stevenson's contract coming off the books, Nolan Baumgartner's contract coming off the books, and I believe there's another contract coming off the books. We've got about 10 or 11 million coming off the books this year.

We should have more than enough money to get everyone under contract. We might even be able to get our hands on a top dollar free agent as well to help on the blue line. Anyways, I think we'll see Carter, Umberger and Prospal all offered contracts first. Jones, meh, he's replaceable

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02-27-2008, 05:36 PM
  #47
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You have to sign Carter. His upside is huge and he's already semi-proven.

Then you have three stud centers to build around.

Umberger, Jones, can all be replaced.

We need some veteran D. Maybe Smith around until our D prospects mature a year or two?

I would love to keep Vinny but he wants his cash and won't sign an "old vet" contract being as he's having a great season.

Wouldn't it be great if Kapanen, Knuble, and Hatcher were all gone to make room? Especially if Umberger will take a discount for playing with the Flyers.

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Old
02-27-2008, 05:44 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Dont forget about JXC! .00001% like him.

I would think really hard about Carter and Kaberle, and probably do it, Giroux for Kaberle yes, as long as we extend Lupul first.
I can't decide if think it's better or worse around here when you and JXC are going at it!
Carter stays. He's not going anywhere. I say so! I really think the deal will be Giroux to Toronto for Kaberle. I would do that.

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Old
02-27-2008, 07:11 PM
  #49
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Carter for Kaberle would be hard to do but I'd really, really think about it. Kaberle isn't overrated in terms of his salary. He easily earns that. He is signed for the right price and I am sure that were weren't the only team that would potentially overpay for him. However, Giroux for Kaberle I do without any hesitation whatsoever.
i agree, but i still wouldn't do carter for kaberle...giroux? sure.

kaberle is a good (but soft) player on a very bad team which makes him look better than he is...he wouldn't have made the all-star game if he played for any other team...but i do agree that his salary is about right...

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Old
02-27-2008, 09:06 PM
  #50
mikedifr
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I can't decide if think it's better or worse around here when you and JXC are going at it!
Carter stays. He's not going anywhere. I say so! I really think the deal will be Giroux to Toronto for Kaberle. I would do that.
I reread my post and it might have been a little confusion, my point was the JXC was the only one that liked Stevens, hopefully that was clear.

I hope Carter stays as well

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