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Old
02-27-2008, 01:47 PM
  #26
Belso
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Just one note before some of you chew my head off.. I like Gainey and think he is doing a good job. But it doesn't mean that I agree with all of his moves.

If I was his boss, I would let him do it just the way he is doing it. He's a smart man and I do believe that he did turn the direction of the club in the right direction. I just think the Habs would be an even better team if Rivet was with the Habs.

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02-27-2008, 01:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
They didn't make the play-offs and they got rid of a quality D who may have made the difference between making it in or not... So what if Gorges is cheaper. Rivet is only being paid $3.5M this season. Subtract Brisebois and Gorges salary this season and you have him at $2.3M more in the Cap space. They have the cap room to have been able to pay him this season. Who would you rather have signed this season? Rivet and Gorges or Brisebois? Rivet isn't old either at 32. Rivet wasn't going anywhere. He loved the Habs and was friends with Koivu. He was a warrior and he's the best player in San Jose.

People mention all the time how the Habs would be a better team with one more quality D. well there he was. And he would have been really useful to have when Hamrlik was sick..

The Rivet trade was not a disaster, but did in fact hurt the team and still does.. just imagine:

Markov, Komisarek, Hamrlik, Rivet, Streit, O'byrne.

Argue with that!

Sorry again about the Andre - Gainey mix-up..
ummmmmm...no, he's not. He's had a career rejuvenation in SJ, but by no means is he their best defenseman let alone best player.

meanwhile, the Rivet that left Montreal and the Rivet that is playing in SJ now could not have been more different. Rivet was at the end of his rope in montreal and it was clear that he needed a move (much like Ribeiro...which was an actual mistake) to get things going again.

Compare that to Gorges...cheap, young, serviceable, developing, playing well, meshing with Bouillon
and Max Pacioretty...top flight prospect, emerging since the draft, best rookie in Michigan, beautiful singing voice, good at math, etc..

The Rivet trade last year was one of, if not the best trade Gainey has made. Granted that was offset by the inability to move Souray...but that's not the argument.

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02-27-2008, 01:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post
ummmmmm...no, he's not. He's had a career rejuvenation in SJ, but by no means is he their best defenseman let alone best player.

meanwhile, the Rivet that left Montreal and the Rivet that is playing in SJ now could not have been more different. Rivet was at the end of his rope in montreal and it was clear that he needed a move (much like Ribeiro...which was an actual mistake) to get things going again.

Compare that to Gorges...cheap, young, serviceable, developing, playing well, meshing with Bouillon
and Max Pacioretty...top flight prospect, emerging since the draft, best rookie in Michigan, beautiful singing voice, good at math, etc..

The Rivet trade last year was one of, if not the best trade Gainey has made. Granted that was offset by the inability to move Souray...but that's not the argument.

That and the Bonk/Huet for Garon trade.

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02-27-2008, 01:50 PM
  #29
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Price is going to be as good as he's going to be. He might be Roy or Dryden or Brodeaur or worse, but he one thing is for sure, he doesn't need anymore seasoning. He was successful in junior, won the World Juniors, won the Calder Cup. He's already played 27 games for us. He's ready to start full time no matter how good, bad or ugly.

Dude,

I assume that you mean that Price does not need any more seasoning ---
"in the minors"?

And, (only) after thinking over Gainey's rationale for trading Huet, I would agree with you.

Gainey apparently felt that Price's play right now was about as good as Huet's play (currently). So, logically, the only way Price will meet his full potential (whatever that may be) is to play him and play him often.

Realistically, with Huet and Hossa on the Habs roster, would the Habs be a true Cup contender i n '08? I don't think they would be -- just my opinion!

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02-27-2008, 01:54 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
They didn't make the play-offs and they got rid of a quality D who may have made the difference between making it in or not... So what if Gorges is cheaper. Rivet is only being paid $3.5M this season. Subtract Brisebois and Gorges salary this season and you have him at $2.3M more in the Cap space. They have the cap room to have been able to pay him this season. Who would you rather have signed this season? Rivet and Gorges or Brisebois? Rivet isn't old either at 32. Rivet wasn't going anywhere. He loved the Habs and was friends with Koivu. He was a warrior and he's the best player in San Jose.

People mention all the time how the Habs would be a better team with one more quality D. well there he was. And he would have been really useful to have when Hamrlik was sick..

The Rivet trade was not a disaster, but did in fact hurt the team and still does.. just imagine:

Markov, Komisarek, Hamrlik, Rivet, Streit, O'byrne.

Argue with that!

Sorry again about the Andre - Gainey mix-up..
Just trust me here.

In a few years when Pacioretty makes the Habs, you're going to see the genius behind it all.

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02-27-2008, 01:55 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
That and the Bonk/Huet for Garon trade.
While I'm positive im in the minority, I was always of the belief that trading Garon for Bonk and a (at the time) backup in Huet was a mistake. I didn't like it then, i look at it now and I stand corrected, but i still question the logic behind it.
Not saying that the results weren't great, as Huet was a key member of this team over the past 3 years, but from a purely logical standpoint, I don't think that was the move to make at the time.

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02-27-2008, 01:55 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post
ummmmmm...no, he's not. He's had a career rejuvenation in SJ, but by no means is he their best defenseman let alone best player.

meanwhile, the Rivet that left Montreal and the Rivet that is playing in SJ now could not have been more different. Rivet was at the end of his rope in montreal and it was clear that he needed a move (much like Ribeiro...which was an actual mistake) to get things going again.

Compare that to Gorges...cheap, young, serviceable, developing, playing well, meshing with Bouillon
and Max Pacioretty...top flight prospect, emerging since the draft, best rookie in Michigan, beautiful singing voice, good at math, etc..

The Rivet trade last year was one of, if not the best trade Gainey has made. Granted that was offset by the inability to move Souray...but that's not the argument.
Man, what's wrong with me today. It's hard to win an argument when you keep making mistakes like that... I meant best Defence and yes I mean that...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/statisti...ame=nhl-sharks

He also fights, blocks shots and is a leader in the room. Even if you argue that he's not the best D in San jose, can you really argue that he's not much better then Gorges and Brisebois? Gorges has only been playing good hockey as of late. Rivet's been better all season. And in the end, those little things add up to a few more good plays here and there that add up to a win or two more which is what you need in the new NHL when like 6 teams are still fighting for a play-off spot with 20 games left to play..

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02-27-2008, 01:58 PM
  #33
Quagmier
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
Man, what's wrong with me today. It's hard to win an argument when you keep making mistakes like that... I meant best Defence and yes I mean that...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/statisti...ame=nhl-sharks

He also fights, blocks shots and is a leader in the room. Even if you argue that he's not the best D in San jose, can you really argue that he's not much better then Gorges and Brisebois? Gorges has only been playing good hockey as of late. Rivet's been better all season. And in the end, those little things add up to a few more good plays here and there that add up to a win or two more which is what you need in the new NHL when like 6 teams are still fighting for a play-off spot with 20 games left to play..
If we would have resigned Rivet...there is almost 0 chance that we sign Hamrlik

Gainey would not have invested 15 million dollars in 3 defensemen
While Brisebois would have undoubtedly have been signed regardless and he'd likely see increased minutes since Gorges wouldn't be with the team

So, in my mind, the trade off is: Hamrlik/Gorges........or............Rivet/Brisebois

take your pick

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02-27-2008, 02:01 PM
  #34
Belso
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Just trust me here.

In a few years when Pacioretty makes the Habs, you're going to see the genius behind it all.
I don't have a crystal ball and can't see into the future, but I can see the present and what I see is a team that would have had a top 4 that could compete against any other top 4 in the league. I like the Habs now and think they have a chance to go far in the play-offs, but still think they have a better chance at the cup for the next 4 to 5 years with Markov, Hamrlik, Komisarek and Rivet.

And Max may turn out to be even better. But maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post
If we would have resigned Rivet...there is almost 0 chance that we sign Hamrlik

Gainey would not have invested 15 million dollars in 3 defensemen
While Brisebois would have undoubtedly have been signed regardless and he'd likely see increased minutes since Gorges wouldn't be with the team

So, in my mind, the trade off is: Hamrlik/Gorges........or............Rivet/Brisebois

take your pick
If they were willing to give Souray $5M, don't tell me that they wouldn't have offered Rivet $3.5M. And they only got Brisebois because they wanted experience after they lost both Souray and Rivet. Had they just let Souray walk and made Rivet feel like they appretiated him, I believe he would have signed here in a heartbeat. Souray was the one who wanted out and everyone knew it..

But you are right about one thing, Would they have gone after Hamrlik anyways?

Anyways, I can argue till I'm blue in the face, but I have things to do. I'm not convinced about a few decisions yet but I do trust Gainey and will cheer for the Habs regardless. I have studies to attend to..

Go Habs Go!!!


Last edited by Beakermania*: 02-27-2008 at 02:16 PM.
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Old
02-27-2008, 02:10 PM
  #35
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I dont know man...I wont argue with you. But for my part I just cant believe the return we got for Rivet. Things often pop up here that remind me that move and each time I'm super happy with Gorges and especialy Pacioretty who has people salivating... There is no question in my mind it was a great trade for the Habs.

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02-27-2008, 02:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
I don't have a crystal ball and can't see into the future, but I can see the present and what I see is a team that would have had a top 4 that could compete against any other top 4 in the league. I like the Habs now and think they have a chance to go far in the play-offs, but still think they have a better chance at the cup for the next 4 to 5 years with Markov, Hamrlik, Komisarek and Rivet.

And Max may turn out to be even better. But maybe not.
It's O'burn's time. He's big, he's mean and might become even better than Rivet.

And I don't have a crystall ball either and I don't talk to some weird imaginary alien above my shoulder called Mr Gazoo, yet MaxPac seems to have what it takes to be on a top6. Timmins can find some amazing talents with late picks... I trust what he can do with a late first rounder.

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02-27-2008, 02:13 PM
  #37
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It's hard to leave the major leagues and come back to the farm team, though.
I think its possible to be both a Montreal beat writer and submit his one NHL column per month to SI.... Its not like they publish more than that...

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02-27-2008, 02:14 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
If they were willing to give Souray $5M, don't tell me that they wouldn't have offered Rivet $3.5M. And they only got Brisebois because they wanted experience after they lost both Souray and Rivet. Had they just let Souray walk and made Rivet feel like they appretiated him, I believe he would have signed here in a heartbeat. Souray was the one who wanted out and everyone knew it..

But you are right about one thing, Would they have gone after Hamrlik anyways?
Of course they would have resigned Rivet if they didn't trade him, that's not what i was saying. Had they offered Rivet the 3.5 once Souray walked there is definitely a strong chance he would've signed here.
My argument is that signing him would have completely altered the rest of the Free agency period. If gainey had markov, komi, rivet all locked up...he doesn't feel the need to overpay for Hamrlik. So he goes about his business and eventually adds Brisebois (since our D corps would have been identical with the only difference being Rivet for Hamrlik) the end result is a d-corps that is 2 mill cheaper, and has both Rivet and Brisebois and does not have Souray (who was gone either way) Hamrlik and Gorges

Also keep in mind, this is a Rivet who would never have gotten the rejuvenation that he got in SJ...and would probably still be getting booed by Habs fans

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02-27-2008, 02:18 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Farber is a tiny light in a huge dark tunnel. This type of journalism is pretty rare nowadays.
He's a good guy. I met him once. He wrote an article about the Dawson hockey team (which was 0-82 over two years). Hilarious article.

A poster on here (Aymand?) mentioned that Price actually has significantly more pro playoff experience than Huet and that Huet is getting to be on the old side. He's also injury prone (I believe he was hurt in the shootout against NY) and has the concentration of a back-up (late longshots, his game breaks down if he plays more than five in a row).

I'm glad we get to keep the kids. Huet would have cost too much. I think Halak can be a very good backup. In fact, I think he can push Price. Price will have to be at his best or Halak will steal games.

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02-27-2008, 02:22 PM
  #40
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Rivet skates a tad better than Lats. He is a decent 6th D man wirth 1.5

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02-27-2008, 02:29 PM
  #41
Ozymandias
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He's a good guy. I met him once. He wrote an article about the Dawson hockey team (which was 0-82 over two years). Hilarious article.

A poster on here (Aymand?) mentioned that Price actually has significantly more pro playoff experience than Huet and that Huet is getting to be on the old side. He's also injury prone (I believe he was hurt in the shootout against NY) and has the concentration of a back-up (late longshots, his game breaks down if he plays more than five in a row).

I'm glad we get to keep the kids. Huet would have cost too much. I think Halak can be a very good backup. In fact, I think he can push Price. Price will have to be at his best or Halak will steal games.

That's exactly my line of thought when trying to understand BG's move. More pressure on Price equals a better Price.

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02-27-2008, 02:53 PM
  #42
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That's exactly my line of thought when trying to understand BG's move. More pressure on Price equals a better Price.
= =

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02-27-2008, 02:55 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
Just one note before some of you chew my head off.. I like Gainey and think he is doing a good job. But it doesn't mean that I agree with all of his moves.

If I was his boss, I would let him do it just the way he is doing it. He's a smart man and I do believe that he did turn the direction of the club in the right direction.
I agreed 100% with you but I can't agree with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
I just think the Habs would be an even better team if Rivet was with the Habs.
I thought that was a great move.

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Old
02-27-2008, 03:09 PM
  #44
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That and the Bonk/Huet for Garon trade.
Balej for Kovy is not bad either.

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02-27-2008, 03:15 PM
  #45
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Balej for Kovy is not bad either.
Shhhhssshhhh... we're not supposed to mention this as a good signing, let alone a good trade. We wouldn't want to burst BG's haters' bubble.


Last edited by Ozymandias: 02-27-2008 at 03:40 PM.
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02-27-2008, 03:35 PM
  #46
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Shhhhssshhhh... we're not supposed to mention this has good signing, let alone a good trade. We wouldn't want to burst BG's haters' bubble.
And don't remind them that even though Timmins does all the scouting... Gainey makes the moves that get him the picks... such as trading up to get Lats...

Gainey

its the new

Gainey :

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02-27-2008, 03:49 PM
  #47
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It really is a shame that Farber doesn't seem to have interest in leaving SI and returning to Montreal.
Huh? Who says Farber left Montreal? He's always been hardcore about living here, repeatedly turning down much bigger offers to move.

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02-27-2008, 04:28 PM
  #48
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Huh? Who says Farber left Montreal? He's always been hardcore about living here, repeatedly turning down much bigger offers to move.
I never said anything about living here, i was talking about coming back to mtl as a writer for the gazette or another publication as a beat writer for the Habs.

he started as a colmnist for the gazette, and i think it would be a cool move if he were to end his career as the main writer for the Habs once Fisher bows out.

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