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Where are they now?

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Old
02-27-2008, 04:08 PM
  #1
Quellet The Dogs Out
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Where are they now?

Remember when Clarke made that bonehead move to send three picks to Washington, along with prized goalie Maxime Ouellet (the namesake of my username) - for Adam Oates at the 2002 deadline?

Well, Oates did put up 12 points in 19 games.

Those picks never amounted to anything.

1st round 2002 - Martin Vagner. He will never play in the NHL. Still in the Czech republic. 4 points in 35 games this season.

2nd round 2002 - Maxime Daigneault - another goalie. He hasn't amounted to anything... currently with Cincinatti in the ECHL.

3rd round 2002 - Derek Krestanovich - Has put up 10 points in his second season this year with Victoria in the ECHL.

Remember how we made such a big deal about Ouellet... how he was going to be our next big thing?

He just signed with the Trenton Devils last week. In his first game he got shelled for 7 GA. That 7.00 GAA looks awesome.

He's played in 12 NHL games over the course of his career.

Look's like that deal didn't turn out to be so bad after all. In a deal where it looked like the Flyers could only lose, neither side won.

I think this could be a fun thread to talk about the players than haven't made it... giving an update on where they are now.

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02-27-2008, 04:10 PM
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GKJ
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You don't know what we would have done with those picks though. That's what you have to think about. It was a bad trade that didn't burn us.

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02-27-2008, 04:22 PM
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claude boivin lives
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out View Post
Those picks never amounted to anything.

1st round 2002 - Martin Vagner. He will never play in the NHL. Still in the Czech republic. 4 points in 35 games this season.

2nd round 2002 - Maxime Daigneault - another goalie. He hasn't amounted to anything... currently with Cincinatti in the ECHL.

3rd round 2002 - Derek Krestanovich - Has put up 10 points in his second season this year with Victoria in the ECHL.
Yeah, but if those picks were ours we could have wound up with...

1st round 2002 - Valtteri Filppula

2nd round 2002 - Paul Ranger

3rd round 2002 - Petr Prucha



Just kidding...I see what you're saying. The Oates trade didn't wind up seeming all that terrible. Good thread...let's hear some more people.

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02-27-2008, 05:45 PM
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BillyShoe1721
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In the end, yeah it didn't come back to bite us in the butt, but what we would've done with those picks would have been much different and probably would have had a better result.

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02-27-2008, 05:48 PM
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TheKingPin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Yeah, but if those picks were ours we could have wound up with...

1st round 2002 - Valtteri Filppula

2nd round 2002 - Paul Ranger

3rd round 2002 - Petr Prucha



Just kidding...I see what you're saying. The Oates trade didn't wind up seeming all that terrible. Good thread...let's hear some more people.
Yea i like this thread. Lets do the Lindros trade, any takers? I have a test in the AM.

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02-27-2008, 07:24 PM
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GKJ
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Valterri Filpulla was someone I wanted badly too. I was convinced he'd be something, but I was accused of having an affinity with Finland. Guess not.

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02-27-2008, 08:10 PM
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CarlRacki
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Although the Oates deal may not have been a good one, people tend to forget - or at least downplay - the context in which it as made.
At the time the Flyers were competing for the top seed in the east, but had just lost their top two centers - Roenick and Primeau - to injury, possibly for 2-3 weeks apiece. And then, on top of that, despite the team's overall good play, they were among the league's worst on the power play, not exactly an encouraging sign heading into the playoffs.
So, given all those factors, acquiring Oates made a lot of sense. He was leading the league in assists at the time, was fantastic on the power play and made it possible for someone other than Marty Murray or Jiri Dopita to be the team's top center during the stretch run.
Did the Clarke overpay? Sure he did. Did he have much choice? I'm not sure that he did.

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:20 PM
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Quellet The Dogs Out
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To say that he didn't have a choice is wrong.

He mortgaged a lot of the future to go for the jugular. 3 picks in the top 3 rounds??? Thats a ton. Plus a goalie that had a ton of upside.

It's nearly the same predicament Holmgren was in this year with all of the injuries and especially the free fall in the standings. That was one of the points I was trying to make.

Don't you think Holmgren felt pressure trying to make a deal that would right the ship. You can bet he did - he even acknowledged it. But he knew that trading the future for now wouldn't have worked out.

There is always that pressure from Flyers fans. They're so used to "go getting it" for the now. But this is good. You can bet they will go after a few guys in the summer that they couldn't get their hands on now.

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02-27-2008, 11:42 PM
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Here is the complete flyers trade history very interesting. The first rounder we got for trading langkow to phoenix turned out to be carter. by the way what ever happened to that prospal guy we traded for daigle

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02-27-2008, 11:43 PM
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oops here is the link http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/trade.cgi

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Old
02-28-2008, 12:05 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out View Post
Remember when Clarke made that bonehead move to send three picks to Washington, along with prized goalie Maxime Ouellet (the namesake of my username) - for Adam Oates at the 2002 deadline?

Well, Oates did put up 12 points in 19 games.

Those picks never amounted to anything.

1st round 2002 - Martin Vagner. He will never play in the NHL. Still in the Czech republic. 4 points in 35 games this season.

2nd round 2002 - Maxime Daigneault - another goalie. He hasn't amounted to anything... currently with Cincinatti in the ECHL.

3rd round 2002 - Derek Krestanovich - Has put up 10 points in his second season this year with Victoria in the ECHL.

Remember how we made such a big deal about Ouellet... how he was going to be our next big thing?

He just signed with the Trenton Devils last week. In his first game he got shelled for 7 GA. That 7.00 GAA looks awesome.

He's played in 12 NHL games over the course of his career.

Look's like that deal didn't turn out to be so bad after all. In a deal where it looked like the Flyers could only lose, neither side won.
We were lucky it was Washington doing the picking.

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02-28-2008, 12:59 AM
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TheKingPin
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Originally Posted by Savage Prime27 View Post
Here is the complete flyers trade history very interesting. The first rounder we got for trading langkow to phoenix turned out to be carter. by the way what ever happened to that prospal guy we traded for daigle
He is out scoring Hossa I hear

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02-28-2008, 08:48 AM
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eaglesfan
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Originally Posted by Savage Prime27 View Post
Wow, haven't heard some of those names in forever...Ken Wregget and Terry Carkner

Also
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To Flyers: Pat Falloon
To San Jose Sharks 1996 1st Rounder (later transferred to Phoenix; Daniel Briere) & 1996 4th Rounder (later transferred to Buffalo; Mike Martone) & Martin Spanhel

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02-28-2008, 08:52 AM
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mercury
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The value of the picks way high, but Oates was still a great center at the time. I believe that he was second in assists in the league when we traded for him.

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02-28-2008, 11:44 AM
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tytech
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He also lead our team in points in the playoffs with two points. We only scored two goals all series and that was in 5 games.

We bowed out to the Sens and it was the lowest scoring total in league playoff history for both teams combined.

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02-28-2008, 12:53 PM
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phlocky
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You don't know what we would have done with those picks though. That's what you have to think about. It was a bad trade that didn't burn us.

I actually remember this trade very well and WHY the Flyers made the move. First, almost everyone was tooting Oullete at the next Parent for us in goal was were devistated when we traded him. Clarke didn't just trade him on a whim, he actually listened to someone who might know a little something about goaltending, Bernie Parent himself. Parent didn't like Oullete, he said Max wouldn't listen. He said that Max had thinkgs he need to change and work on but that Max REFUSED to listen to Bernie (yes, Bernie WAS Max's goalie coach to a degree). Also, Bernie told Clake that we had a better goalie in the system and that Max wouldn't amount to much of anything. Guess who that "other" goalie was, our boy Nitty. Now Nitty may not be a true #1 goalie in the NHL but Bernie certainly was right when he said that Nitty was better than Max.

Also, outside of the top 10 that year, the 02 draft class was one of the worst in recent memory. It was a terrible draft class. Trading the #26 pick, #59, and #92 wasn't as terrible as it sounded as stating it being a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

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02-28-2008, 01:05 PM
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phlocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out View Post
To say that he didn't have a choice is wrong.

He mortgaged a lot of the future to go for the jugular. 3 picks in the top 3 rounds??? Thats a ton.
It was a terrible draft year and we did keep our top 5 draft pick that year (#4 overall, Joni Pitkanen).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out View Post
Plus a goalie that had a ton of upside.
The ONLY person in the entire Flyers organinzation at that time who ANYONE should have been listening to regarding goalies, Bernie Parent, was the one who told Clarke he'd be a bust and to get what he could for him. If Bernie Parent says the guy doesn't have it and to sucker some other team then I think as a GM I might just be inclined to believe him since he IS a HOF goalie ya know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out View Post
It's nearly the same predicament Holmgren was in this year with all of the injuries and especially the free fall in the standings. That was one of the points I was trying to make.

Don't you think Holmgren felt pressure trying to make a deal that would right the ship. You can bet he did - he even acknowledged it. But he knew that trading the future for now wouldn't have worked out.

There is always that pressure from Flyers fans. They're so used to "go getting it" for the now. But this is good. You can bet they will go after a few guys in the summer that they couldn't get their hands on now.
Yes, and if the Flyers hadn't gone on a recent loosing streak and if Gags weren't lost for the year MAYBE Homer would have pulled the trigger to get a guy like Hossa, trading away something like Downie, Upshall, Potulny and an 08 1st.

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02-28-2008, 01:19 PM
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phlocky
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We were lucky it was Washington doing the picking.
Well, considering Wash traded that 1st rnd pick to Dallas and it was Dallas who picked Vagner I don;t know if this holds much water. Also, if you consider the fact that of the next 9 players taken AFTER Vagner only 1 (Jim Slater), count them ONE, played more than 40 games in the NHL since the draft and only 2, again count them TWO (Slater and Jarrot Stoll), of the next 16 taken after Vagner played more than 40 games in the NHL to date I'd say OUR chances of finding NOT being one of theams with "the bust" player were slim.

It looked to be highway robbery at the time of the trade but the Flyers scouting team wasn't high on that years draft so they were more willing to trade the picks and prospects like Woywitka, Williams or Gagne.

And if you think you know more about goalie prospects then Bernie Parent then be my guest, go ahead and live on Fantasy Island. Oullete was Parent's call, not Clarke's. Parent told Clarke that Nittimaki was better and that oullete was a bust because he had critical flaws in his game and he was unwilling to change and listen to his coaching.

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02-28-2008, 01:30 PM
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mikedifr
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Well, considering Wash traded that 1st rnd pick to Dallas and it was Dallas who picked Vagner I don;t know if this holds much water. Also, if you consider the fact that of the next 9 players taken AFTER Vagner only 1 (Jim Slater), count them ONE, played more than 40 games in the NHL since the draft and only 2, again count them TWO (Slater and Jarrot Stoll), of the next 16 taken after Vagner played more than 40 games in the NHL to date I'd say OUR chances of finding NOT being one of theams with "the bust" player were slim.

It looked to be highway robbery at the time of the trade but the Flyers scouting team wasn't high on that years draft so they were more willing to trade the picks and prospects like Woywitka, Williams or Gagne.

And if you think you know more about goalie prospects then Bernie Parent then be my guest, go ahead and live on Fantasy Island. Oullete was Parent's call, not Clarke's. Parent told Clarke that Nittimaki was better and that oullete was a bust because he had critical flaws in his game and he was unwilling to change and listen to his coaching.
He has inside sources

I dont know what Parent had to do with it, but I know for a fact that Hextall, who was part of the scouting department at the time, was higher on Nitty than any of the other goalies they had at the time. Heard it directly from the source himself. (The benefits of living and working in Voorhees for several years, which is where most of the Flyers and their alumni have lived when here)

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Old
02-28-2008, 01:50 PM
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GKJ
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The Caps traded up and took Semin I think.

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