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Next Year's Lineup...Little needed to be done...

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:56 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Bang on analysm. I would do the trade in a second for these reasons.
You know what, at first glance i didn't like the trade... but then i started to analyze it and write it down, and I did a complete 180 on the thing....

Sometimes we need to take off our homer glasses when we see these trade proposals... cause after I looked at it critically I went from,

1) (Value wise its fair, but I don't know money wise, and giving up McDonagh who Timmins says is gonna be great)
to the position of
2) After a real analysis, this is the type of trade that makes us Real Solid Cup Contenders for the next 3-4 years.... and makes a lot of sense for us....


But all that said, I doubt TO would do it.... trading a great defenceman to your biggest/2nd biggest (depending if you rank it leafs-habs, or leafs-sens) just will not happen at any time.... especially when he is signed to that reasonable contract.

Sundin was a legit possibility due to the fact he was a rental and the leafs were giving up on the season at that point.... Kaberle is more a long-term piece, and the leafs don't give him up to a team in the division.

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02-27-2008, 11:59 PM
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I'm willing to bet Demitra gets more than $4.5M/year.
I think it's a fair price for a guy not on pace for 20 goals and just over 50 points. I know he's better than his stats show but I don't his has the leverage to ask a 5M+ contract.

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02-27-2008, 11:59 PM
  #53
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Value wise the trade is a steal for us....... Kaberle nearly as good as Markov IMO (but that could be the homer in me talking, some people will tell you he's better, but they are close thats for sure)... His contract is also extremely reasonable. Lets assume streit wants 3 million... for 1.75 million more you get Kaberle and let Streit walk... Thats a HUGE Upgrade!

It would give us a defence comparable to the best in the league... It would be second only to Anaheim IMO, and it would be a close 2nd. If Niedermeyer retires, we have the best D in the league.

McDonagh and Grabo is a steep price but I would do it.... Imagine going into the playoffs knowing that

Markov - Komi (will be on the ice 23-25 minutes in regular season 27-30 minutes in tight playoff games)
Hamrlik - Kaberle (would be on the ice another 23-25 regular season 27-30 playoff minutes)
Boullion/OByrne/Gorges (10 - 12 minutes is all thats needed regular season... 5-6 in the playoffs)

Also we need to extend Komisarek next summer... lets say he gets 4.5 million (reasonable when you look at Chris Phillips, Jay McKee, and other defensive dmen without offensive numbers).

In 09-10 when Komi's contract kicks in you now have approx 20 million spent on 4 dmen... but thats okay because you let Bouillion walk (no longer needed, as the group of Valentenko, Emelin, Subban, Weber) should produce someone to replace him at a lower cost.

Its actually a great trade from a Montreal perspective.

McDonagh's potential is to be as good as Kaberle, but Kaberle is a sure thing, so I would do the trade. Grabovoski vs the pick is also fair value.

Overall Montreal would be BIG BIG winners in this kinda deal.
I watch a lot of Kaberle and he's obviously a mobile defenseman and is great on offense.

He's not great on defense though. And we already have a Kaberle type guy on our roster... it sounds like a good deal on paper but I think it makes us a little too soft back there. He gets pushed around way too easily, Markov is better defensively.

But it sure would be nice to have for the offense.

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02-28-2008, 12:00 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Don't be surprised if Gainey goes after an "impact player"

In the summer of 06 he went after Shannahan and others, lost out, settled on Samsonov as the last forward UFA left, realized his mistake on Samsonov and got rid of him.
Last summer he went after Briere, Smyth, and others but failed to land one....
This year we were definetely a Player for Hossa, I'm sure of that.... according to rumors we may/may not have also made offers for Sundin, Jokinen, Tanguay, and Richards....

Bob Gainey has never given up on anything in his life.... If he still believes that we need an impact player this summer, he's gonna try again to get one... either by UFA, Trade, or he might even pull a Kevin Lowe and go after an RFA if he sees the right situation....

One of these attempts is eventually gonna work...
I just looked at the list of UFA and it wasn't that great if you don't count Sakic's and Sundin's who may retire..

Under 37,

Langkow
Nolan - going down
Nagy - mehh
Demitra
Satan - going down
Jagr - going down
Straka
Redden - why?
Hossa
Naslund - going down

That's like 10 players and I don't think the Habs will be going after a defense man.

So who did I miss?

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02-28-2008, 12:04 AM
  #55
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Dandenault = OPtimus Prime? I figured him more as Megatron really.
No, you buy-out Dandy and sign Prime.. He sure can hit. Trust me. It's his skating I'm not sure about..

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02-28-2008, 12:05 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
I just looked at the list of UFA and it wasn't that great if you don't count Sakic's and Sundin's who may retire..

Under 37,

Langkow
Nolan - going down
Nagy - mehh
Demitra
Satan - going down
Jagr - going down
Straka
Redden - why?
Hossa
Naslund - going down

That's like 10 players and I don't think the Habs will be going after a defense man.

So who did I miss?
Well Hossa jumps out.... at the right price so do Naslund, Jagr and Demitra.... but like I said Bob may try the trade route or the RFA route too.... There are many options.. but i just don't see him quitting on trying to bring someone of that caliber in, if thats what he still believes we need after the playoffs...

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02-28-2008, 12:06 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Well Hossa jumps out.... at the right price so do Naslund, Jagr and Demitra.... but like I said Bob may try the trade route or the RFA route too.... There are many options.. but i just don't see him quitting on trying to bring someone of that caliber in, if thats what he still believes we need after the playoffs...
Jagr would be pretty interesting.

I don't think he'll ever score 50 again but if we could get him for a reasonable price....

Only thing is that he's moody and you never know what you're gonna get with him.

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02-28-2008, 12:09 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I watch a lot of Kaberle and he's obviously a mobile defenseman and is great on offense.

He's not great on defense though. And we already have a Kaberle type guy on our roster... it sounds like a good deal on paper but I think it makes us a little too soft back there. He gets pushed around way too easily, Markov is better defensively.

But it sure would be nice to have for the offense.
I see a lot of Leaf games due to the region i'm in and I'm telling you Kaberle is a legit top pairing defensive defender.... He goes out against other teams top lines.... Maybe he's not as good as Markov, but hes close to that level.... Much like Markov he can't be considered a big hitter but he contains his man well, keeps the play infront of him and to the outside, has a good stick for breaking up passes and making pokechecks, and is quick at moving the puck and makes tape to tape outlet passes... A pairing of him and Hamrlik as your 3-4, with Komi-Markov as your 1-2 would put you in a situation where you wouldn't care which pairing was out against other teams number 1 lines...

I said before the Leafs top 2 Defence last year and ours was very similar.

Markov = Kaberle
Souray = McCabe

playing with McCabe and the other defensive liabilities the leafs have paired him with over the years, have made Kaberle look worse than he is at times.

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02-28-2008, 12:13 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Well Hossa jumps out.... at the right price so do Naslund, Jagr and Demitra.... but like I said Bob may try the trade route or the RFA route too.... There are many options.. but i just don't see him quitting on trying to bring someone of that caliber in, if thats what he still believes we need after the playoffs...
I don't for one second think he won't try a little something for the 100 year B-day. I just realized that there aren't that many great "Impact" players next season who are UFA. Therefor Bob's job willnot be easy unless like you say, he trades a few more assets. That 2nd round pick might come in handy..

I think the Habs are really pilling up the farm AND they have a relatively young team. So maybe it's time to get a "Pittsburg" trade going and trade some prospects in the summer so you don't have to worry about team chemistry and how it will affect their play. It's not like Timmins isn't going to get the Habs a few Gems like he always does..

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02-28-2008, 12:15 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Jagr would be pretty interesting.

I don't think he'll ever score 50 again but if we could get him for a reasonable price....

Only thing is that he's moody and you never know what you're gonna get with him.
Kovalev #2 HA HA!! They would be great on the same line!!!

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02-28-2008, 12:18 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I see a lot of Leaf games due to the region i'm in and I'm telling you Kaberle is a legit top pairing defensive defender....
He's a top pairing dman yes. But its more for his offense. You go into the corner with him and he can be pushed around easily.
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
He goes out against other teams top lines.... Maybe he's not as good as Markov, but hes close to that level.... Much like Markov he can't be considered a big hitter but he contains his man well, keeps the play infront of him and to the outside, has a good stick for breaking up passes and making pokechecks, and is quick at moving the puck and makes tape to tape outlet passes... A pairing of him and Hamrlik as your 3-4, with Komi-Markov as your 1-2 would put you in a situation where you wouldn't care which pairing was out against other teams number 1 lines...

I said before the Leafs top 2 Defence last year and ours was very similar.

Markov = Kaberle
Souray = McCabe

playing with McCabe and the other defensive liabilities the leafs have paired him with over the years, have made Kaberle look worse than he is at times.
I'm not going to say its a bad idea, but I would be at least a little concerned. From an offensive perspective though we'd be absolutely sick.

I hear McDonnaugh's pretty good though...

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02-28-2008, 12:19 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
I don't for one second think he won't try a little something for the 100 year B-day. I just realized that there aren't that many great "Impact" players next season who are UFA. Therefor Bob's job willnot be easy unless like you say, he trades a few more assets. That 2nd round pick might come in handy..

I think the Habs are really pilling up the farm AND they have a relatively young team. So maybe it's time to get a "Pittsburg" trade going and trade some prospects in the summer so you don't have to worry about team chemistry and how it will affect their play. It's not like Timmins isn't going to get the Habs a few Gems like he always does..
I agree that a trade of prospects for an Impact player would be a good move.... but seeing the rumorred price of a rental hossa when the deal fell apart, I'm glad we turned it down.

Higgins + Obyrne + Grabo + Halak + 1st for Hossa + Hedberg was too steep for an unsigned Hossa.... Signed for 4 years it would give me pause, but i would do it... unsigned I can't justify Higgins.

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02-28-2008, 12:33 AM
  #63
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Once again

Koivu was a first line centre until this year... Pleks is a legit first line centre now....

30 teams = 30 first line centres...

Pleks is definetely in the top 30 centres in the league...
Imo there are more like 15 real first line centers. Real first line centers should be able to produce consistently and at PPG or near PPG imo.

30 teams in the league, 16 make the playoffs. Would you call Holmqvist a number 1 goalie, cuz he was one of the 30 goalies to play that role?

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02-28-2008, 12:34 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Well Hossa jumps out.... at the right price so do Naslund, Jagr and Demitra.... but like I said Bob may try the trade route or the RFA route too.... There are many options.. but i just don't see him quitting on trying to bring someone of that caliber in, if thats what he still believes we need after the playoffs...
I can see us acquiring Demitra. I would love Naslund or Jagr though. Real gamebreakers.

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02-28-2008, 12:36 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
Might I suggest a freaking first line center for once in 10 years.
Habs are actually pretty strong at center with Plekanec and Koivu on the top two lines. Montreal has two of the leagues top 30 centers in Plek and Koivu. Considering there are 30 teams with a first line center Montreal has two, yes two centers in the top 30 I think they're more than fine, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Plekanec is 22nd and Koivu at 29th out of all centers in the league. Montreal's second line center is better than a lot of teams first line center. There are only four other teams with 2 or more centers in the top 30. Here they are:

Pittsburgh has 2
Tampa Bay has 3
Philly has 2
Carolina has 2

So, basically, there are five teams that compensate for 11 of the top 30 centers in the league. And Montreal is one of them. 19 teams only have one or none in the top 30. What more do you want?

Source


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02-28-2008, 12:44 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I agree that a trade of prospects for an Impact player would be a good move.... but seeing the rumorred price of a rental hossa when the deal fell apart, I'm glad we turned it down.

Higgins + Obyrne + Grabo + Halak + 1st for Hossa + Hedberg was too steep for an unsigned Hossa.... Signed for 4 years it would give me pause, but i would do it... unsigned I can't justify Higgins.
No kidding. Like Bob said at his press conference, had he given Atlanta what they wanter for Hossa, the Fans would have been pissed!!

A team is made up of a roster of 23 players. Hossa is one player. you can't take out the best 3 out of your 50 man roster for one guy. That leaves you 2 week spots and it's only for a few months..

I'll be frank with you, I really like the group of players that Bob is gathering each year. a winning team is not just about stats on paper. It's about having talent AND having the right attitude. Guys like Samsenov and Smoke are only brought in as a last resort to fill holes. Hamrlik, was a good fit.. He's talented and has a good attitude. Even Kovalev can be moody, but is still a winner..

What I'm trying to say is that the guys they draft have a special something between the ears... They have talent, but also pride and honor. Komisarek, Higgins, Chipchura, Plekanec, and the Kostitsyns have that IMO. It doesn't show as much with the Kostitsyns but they are shy from what I can tell. Saku, Kovalev, Hamrlik and Markov are all guys who hate to let their team down. They may slump, but not for lack of trying or wanting to win. These are players you build around if you want a championship team.

So that being said, if bob has to trade Higgins to get a player in, I say keep looking... Some one's bound to notice what's being built here and sign....

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02-28-2008, 12:49 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I see a lot of Leaf games due to the region i'm in and I'm telling you Kaberle is a legit top pairing defensive defender.... He goes out against other teams top lines.... Maybe he's not as good as Markov, but hes close to that level.... Much like Markov he can't be considered a big hitter but he contains his man well, keeps the play infront of him and to the outside, has a good stick for breaking up passes and making pokechecks, and is quick at moving the puck and makes tape to tape outlet passes... A pairing of him and Hamrlik as your 3-4, with Komi-Markov as your 1-2 would put you in a situation where you wouldn't care which pairing was out against other teams number 1 lines...

I said before the Leafs top 2 Defence last year and ours was very similar.

Markov = Kaberle
Souray = McCabe

playing with McCabe and the other defensive liabilities the leafs have paired him with over the years, have made Kaberle look worse than he is at times.
Kaberle is a -6 this year, he's not very consistent on defense.
Plus out D-pairings are fine for maybe 1. We need a better center man then what we have in Koivu.

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02-28-2008, 12:52 AM
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Kaberle is a -6 this year, he's not very consistent on defense.
Plus out D-pairings are fine for maybe 1. We need a better center man then what we have in Koivu.
We do. His last name is Plekanec. BTW Koivu has 8 points in his last seven games.

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02-28-2008, 12:57 AM
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We need a top scorer to be cup contender next season. I hope Gainey gives everything he got to get Hossa, something like 5 years 42-45 millions. And i hope he dumps Dandenault.

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02-28-2008, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Kaberle is a -6 this year, he's not very consistent on defense.
Plus out D-pairings are fine for maybe 1. We need a better center man then what we have in Koivu.
- 6 on a pretty ****** team is not that bad.... especially when you consider the number of games the leafs as a whole have **** the bad and lost huge.... 8-0 to fla, the game against phx, to name just two in a season filled with blowouts.
Also consider that he plays against other teams top lines, and gets PP time (you get -s for every shorthanded goal against, none for goals for).... he's also on the ice when his team is trying to tie a game (how many -s due to empty net goals against, leafs are usually losing they should have more en goals against than a plus 500 team). His partner has also been either Pavel Kubina or Bryan McCabe... neither comes close to being paired with Hamrlik.

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02-28-2008, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Kaberle is a -6 this year, he's not very consistent on defense.
Plus out D-pairings are fine for maybe 1. We need a better center man then what we have in Koivu.
Add Hossa with Koivu, he'll be a point per game player easily. Lets say Plekanec is our 1st center, having Koivu as a second center is perfect. Theres not much 2nd center that is better than Koivu out there.

Plekanec is doing well because hes playing with our two best wingers, imagine if Gainey brings Hossa or a top winger and make him play with Koivu, i wouldnt be surprise if Koivu's line will become the first line again.

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02-28-2008, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
We do. His last name is Plekanec. BTW Koivu has 8 points in his last seven games.
Umm...I know we have Plekanec.
Koivu isn't consistent. He's a sprut score and honestly really not a leader. I see Kovy do more on the bench then Koivu.

If Montreal could have signed Marleau, Jokinen, Stall, this team would have been better 10 fold come playoffs.

We suck at face offs and in the playoffs if you don't win them, you are in trouble.

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02-28-2008, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
- 6 on a pretty ****** team is not that bad.... especially when you consider the number of games the leafs as a whole have **** the bad and lost huge.... 8-0 to fla, the game against phx, to name just two in a season filled with blowouts.
Also consider that he plays against other teams top lines, and gets PP time (you get -s for every shorthanded goal against, none for goals for).... he's also on the ice when his team is trying to tie a game (how many -s due to empty net goals against, leafs are usually losing they should have more en goals against than a plus 500 team). His partner has also been either Pavel Kubina or Bryan McCabe... neither comes close to being paired with Hamrlik.
Oh that I know, but the team has been a lot worse without McCabe and now that he's back....they are winning?
+/- works by...
+ by being on the ice when your team scores.
- by being on the ice when you get scored on.

Regardless of PP or PK.

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02-28-2008, 01:10 AM
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Oh that I know, but the team has been a lot worse without McCabe and now that he's back....they are winning?
+/- works by...
+ by being on the ice when your team scores.
- by being on the ice when you get scored on.

Regardless of PP or PK.
Not entirely true.... PP goals do not count as +, and PP goals against are not -... For this reason a guy like Souray can finish -28.... if his PP goals were counted he'd probably been closer to -10 last year (gotta count the PP goals against him too).

Only ES, SH goals count.

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02-28-2008, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Add Hossa with Koivu, he'll be a point per game player easily. Lets say Plekanec is our 1st center, having Koivu as a second center is perfect. Theres not much 2nd center that is better than Koivu out there.

Plekanec is doing well because hes playing with our two best wingers, imagine if Gainey brings Hossa or a top winger and make him play with Koivu, i wouldnt be surprise if Koivu's line will become the first line again.
Hmm.
Stall, Prospal, Brind'Amour...

Plekanec has taken over from Koivu because he's shown (actually the entire line has shown), they want to play.
Koivu disappears a lot. I don't NOT like him. I just don't think he's a perfect 2nd line Center for Higgins and Ryder. Well see I guess.

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