HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rumor: Higgins was the dealbreaker

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-28-2008, 12:42 AM
  #76
Passchendaele
Registered User
 
Passchendaele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Laval, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I don't believe this for a second...What kind of GM would take what Pittsburgh gave up over O'Byrne, Grabovski and Halak????? That's a HUGE package! I'm not even sure I'd be happy if we gave that for Hossa.

I'd be ok if we traded 1 of those guys for an upgrade somewhere else but NOT all 3. That's insane.

It can't be real. Waddell must be completely ******** to pass this up, if true.
Repeat after me:

Atlanta don't need Halak

...

Atlanta don't need Halak

that's right.

Atlanta don't need Halak.

Passchendaele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 12:43 AM
  #77
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,674
vCash: 483
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Never mind the Esposito haters, they have a man-crush the size of McPhee's prostate for him. If he was a Montreal prospect he'd be a god, a can't miss prospect and an untouchable.
Believe me, I already know.

He has the potential to flop. Will it happen? Probably not. Atlanta won the trade hands down by picking up Angelo and a 1st.

Angelo just needs a goal score to play with and guess what, last time I check Kovalchuk has 41 now (again!)

compile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 12:45 AM
  #78
Stradale
Registered User
 
Stradale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
At the end of the season, if Pittsburgh dont win the cup, it will start to hurt. They have lost: Armstrong, EC, Esposito, 1st and Hossa. Theres no way Pittsburgh can afford to add Hossa in their cap with Crosby, Malkin, Gonchar and Whitney.

If they want to keep Crosby, Hossa, Malkin, Gonchar and Whitney, thats minimum 35 millions and they will become the 2nd TB of the league.

So even if im not a big fan of Higgins, im happy we still have him and it will not have an impact in the lockeroom. And a big defenseman like Obyrne and maybe our 1st pick aswell but we still have a shot to sign Hossa this summer after all.


Last edited by Stradale: 02-28-2008 at 12:51 AM.
Stradale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 12:50 AM
  #79
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post

If they want to keep Crosby, Hossa, Malkin, Gonchar and Whitney, thats minimum 35 millions and they will become the 2nd TB of the league.
MAF is also a RFA making Pits SOL.

Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 12:53 AM
  #80
Belso
Registered User
 
Belso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,700
vCash: 500
What a joke. Bob did the right thing. Don't touch Higgins....

Belso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 01:01 AM
  #81
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,674
vCash: 483
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
At the end of the season, if Pittsburgh dont win the cup, it will start to hurt. They have lost: Armstrong, EC, Esposito, 1st and Hossa. Theres no way Pittsburgh can afford to add Hossa in their cap with Crosby, Malkin, Gonchar and Whitney.

If they want to keep Crosby, Hossa, Malkin, Gonchar and Whitney, thats minimum 35 millions and they will become the 2nd TB of the league.

So even if im not a big fan of Higgins, im happy we still have him and it will not have an impact in the lockeroom. And a big defenseman like Obyrne and maybe our 1st pick. We still have a shot to sign Hossa this summer.
They already said the cap is raising; by how much know one knows yet.

It will be a lot more then 35 million in Crosby, Hossa, Malkin, Gonchar and Whitney.

Malkin will command more the 6 million after this years performance (roughly 7-8million unless there is a cap on his raise) Hossa wants 10, Gonchar (as some people have speculated will not be offered a contract, WILL). He alone will command 5.5-6.5million and Whitney already has signed and his hit is 4million. (roughly 38million)
They have Dupuis to sign (unless walk), Roberts, Malone, Laraque, Ruutu, Conklin, Fleury, Orpik, Eaton all to sign.

Unless the cap goes to 60+, half their core is walking.

compile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 01:10 AM
  #82
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
Repeat after me:

Atlanta don't need Halak

...

Atlanta don't need Halak

that's right.

Atlanta don't need Halak.
Why do you even post here?

__________________
Yours in Christ,

waffledave
waffledave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 01:12 AM
  #83
habs1988
Registered User
 
habs1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: I don't know
Posts: 2,122
vCash: 500
The problem with Pittsburgh isn't the salary cap because it's gonna go up to 55 millions maybe...

The problem is if they can afford that much money. Many teams have their salary cap like Edmonton who is a small market. Does Pittsburgh have the same problem?

If not, I don't see how they can't afford Hossa. But, will they give a 6 year contract to HOssa? I don't think so...

habs1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 01:21 AM
  #84
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,674
vCash: 483
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Why do you even post here?
Why did you bother replying?

compile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 01:25 AM
  #85
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Why did you bother replying?
Cause I can't stand when fans from other teams start posting regularly on out board just to trash our team, our players and everything that is said in general. I've noticed this guy over the past 3 weeks come out of nowhere and he's negative and annoying.

Halak is an excellent asset to have and Atlanta would have taken him anytime. Lehtonen has major injury issues and I can't imagine him being the guy going forward. Besides, there aren't many teams in the league (if any) that would turn down the opportunity for a 22 year old potential #1 goaltender.

Even we, Montreal, with Carey Price, see it fit to keep him.

waffledave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 01:30 AM
  #86
ari1160
 
ari1160's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 2,259
vCash: 500
good thing by not touching higgy. i think there was a lot of pressure on higgy because of some rumor that he was going to be traded. after the deadline he was able to play with a clean mind. good job BG for not trading. we'll get hossa in summer.

ari1160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 01:45 AM
  #87
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,674
vCash: 483
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Cause I can't stand when fans from other teams start posting regularly on out board just to trash our team, our players and everything that is said in general. I've noticed this guy over the past 3 weeks come out of nowhere and he's negative and annoying.

Halak is an excellent asset to have and Atlanta would have taken him anytime. Lehtonen has major injury issues and I can't imagine him being the guy going forward. Besides, there aren't many teams in the league (if any) that would turn down the opportunity for a 22 year old potential #1 goaltender.

Even we, Montreal, with Carey Price, see it fit to keep him.

umm maybe he's pointing out that Atlanta don't need him because they have Kari (who's had a bad season) and Hedberg.
And if you traded for Halak you are pretty much telling Kari you are done with him.

Don't know where you see he was inciting that Halak was garbage.

compile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 01:46 AM
  #88
marvelousmotion
Registered User
 
marvelousmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 758
vCash: 500
Who knows what the real package offered was, one thing for sure though is that Atlanta wanted Higgins in return from the beginning to the end. Bob did not want to but they thought perhaps that he would still end up offering him out of pressure during the last stretch in order to win the bidding war. After knowing that Bob would not bite, Waddell simply took Pittsburgh's offer.

marvelousmotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:10 AM
  #89
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Sheesh... talk about upping the ante.

Any deal involving Higgins was a non-starter, IMHO.

EDIT: If the deal was Grabovski + Halak + O'Byrne + 1st, I am suddenly doubtful that Atlanta took the best offer.
O'Byrne one up for a rental, no matter how talented, was already a HUGE risk. 6'5" defencemen who can skate don't grow on trees. Plus with his long reaches, Ryan's really good on takeaways.

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:13 AM
  #90
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFB View Post
Grabovski + Halak + O'Byrne for Hossa would have been a sweet deal for us...
Nope, not if he doesn't re-sign.

I would have RELUCTANTLY let O'Byrne go in a Jokinen deal, or a Richards deal, but not for a rental.

In 2 years, Ryan will be a God in these parts.

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:30 AM
  #91
1UP
Registered User
 
1UP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
He is 19 years old, playing in the QMJHL after being drafted. Wait until next year when he fills in and is in the 'A.'

For a guy saying Grabovski has upside at 25 years old and saying Esposito is a bust (really don't know how a 19 year old is a bust), really says a lot about your hockey sense.
I see Esposito play quite often, and i can tell you unless something drastic change, he's not going to be all that and a bag of chips in the NHL. He was dragged by Radulov. His work ethic is abysmal.

And Streit had upside at a pretty late age, right? Same setting, we get someone with extensive pro experience in an european league. When Streit managed to find his stride on NHL rinks, well, now you see what happens. Grabovski may or may not do that, but I think he will. He started showing dominance in the AHL, whereas before he was just playing ok.

1UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:44 AM
  #92
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Agreed. Considering what rentals usually go for, that's a really cheap price to pay. No surprise that Waddell found a more desperate team.

To all the people suggesting Waddell was crazy for asking that much let alone Higgins, what would you have been prepared to give up for Hossa?
More future, less present.

I would have structured a deal like the following:

Asset #1:
A first-round draft pick OR one young NHL experienced player (24 yo or less) from among:
Lapierre
Gorges
Grabovski (not counted as Hamilton player)
Chipchura (not counted as Hamilton player)

Asset #2:
A second-round draft pick OR any Hamilton player or player not yet in Hamilton, except:
d'Agostini
McDonough
Pacioretti
Halak (unless an NHL experienced goalie comes back in the trade)


Asset #3:
Michael Ryder OR a third-round draft pick OR the rights to Perezhogin

Asset #4:
A fourth-round draft pick OR one older not expensive depth player, signed for 08-09, from among:
Begin
Kostopoulos
Dandenault

Stipulation: no more than three draft picks in total

In other words, I would have been ready to pay a 1st, 3rd, 4th and Valentenko for two months of Hossa. Or a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Begin. Or a 1st, 2nd, 4th plus Michael Ryder. You can make other combinations yourselves.

In my book, that's ALREADY damn generous!! If another GM is desperate enough to mortgage BOTH his present AND his future, by including players of the calibre of Higgins and O'Byrne, well..........I must pass. And so did Bob.

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:51 AM
  #93
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
You probably thought the exact same thing about Kostitsyn last year. How about you give Grabovski a bit more time?
I was going to say the same thing.

I made the mistake myself of underestimating Andrei Kostitsyn, and I have learned to be more patient now.

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 04:34 AM
  #94
Qui Gon Dave
Registered User
 
Qui Gon Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cheshire, England
Country: England
Posts: 8,504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
When he hat-tricked the Marlies.
I know you are a Grabs fan. I know you have probably seen it. I thought it was worth posting again. Enjoy

Clicky

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Wow?
Hat-trick in the AHL vs a pretty mediocre goalie named Pogge.
To be fair, Pogge is a top 10 goalie in the AHL for GAA, shutouts and wins. The Marlies are also one of the best teams in the AHL this year. The team helps the goalie, the goalie helps the team. Both deserve a little more credit than you appear to be giving them IMO. He didn't have a great night in that 7-4 game, neither did the team. But if Pogge is pretty mediocre, that must make the rest of the Marlies spectacular this year to be so high in the rankings despite him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
The last time he got a point was in Oct in the NHL. Ya he's only played 13 games but there is a reason why he's been riding the pine and why he was sent down.
To be fair to Grabovski this time, he missed a lot of time due to injuries in the AHL. You point out when he last scored a point in the NHL, but why? If he had been healthy, he might have returned to the Habs sooner. Who can tell? He was sent down originally for a reason, no arguement there. But I fail to see the relevance of when he last scored in the NHL when he has been injured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
What has Grabovski proved? That he's AHL bound?
74 games 78pts, +9 <--- AHL
13 games 2pts -4 <----NHL (on pace for 5pts in 31 games.
This season, Andrei Kostitsyn started off slowly and didn't put many points on the board. 3 points in his first 10 games. 8 points in his first 20 games (which was a start to his improvement).

When Chris Higgins started his first year, didn't he struggle to put up points the first half of the year?

Plekanec struggled to score points at the start of last season. 5 points in his first 20 games I think.

What did those guys go on to prove?

Grabovski may not end up having a long term career in the NHL. He may end up scoring hundreds of points in the NHL too. But I wouldn't look too hard into the stats of a young player in their first handful of NHL games when trying to determine what they will do in the future. If you want to give up on him, that's fine. But there is reason to believe that he could turn his play around and become a decent NHLer.

As for the Esposito issue, I haven't seen him play so I can't comment in detail. But I fail to see the logic in giving up on a 19 year old for those that are. You never know when something might flick a swtich for them and wake them up. He might not be the best asset for a GM to aquire and I can see why. Obviously the Thrashers saw something in him though. As for how he compares to Grabs, that is difficult to assess due to the differing ages, backgrounds and experiences. Hopefully we have the better prospect, I guess in time we will find out. But I wouldn't make a definitive arguement for or against either at this juncture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
O'Byrne one up for a rental, no matter how talented, was already a HUGE risk. 6'5" defencemen who can skate don't grow on trees. Plus with his long reaches, Ryan's really good on takeaways.
You can probably add that he is right handed as well. It isn't uncommon for teams to lack RH Dmen. That was one of the key things for the Sharks in aquiring Rivet. Big, solid veteran Dman to help the kids they had. And he was right handed. Having O'Byrne and players like Komisarek/Markov/Hamrlik to learn from bodes well for the development of the player and the good of the team.

Qui Gon Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 04:55 AM
  #95
Jedrik
Registered User
 
Jedrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm aware. But the package we offered was better in the first place, adding Higgins is ****ing stupid.

I'm glad we didn't do the trade with what was originally offered, let alone Higgins.
Agreed. In fact, on deadline day, I wasn't around the computer during the final hours, and the more I thought about it, the more remorseful I was preparing to feel if we shipped even someone like O'Byrne straight up for a rental Hossa. Possibly Grabo, but even then, I'm not so sure, if he turned out to be a long term NHL second liner.

I wonder if Pitts got wind of the whole Huet precursor to a Hossa/Hedberg deal and figured they could step in and tie our hands up. I think Huet was dealt around 11:30 and TSN reported that the Pens only began talks suddenly with Waddell around noon.

Either way, yeah -- that first package was *plenty* and I'm quite satisfied that Waddell apparently had a problem evaluating the talent among these teams.

Jedrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 05:06 AM
  #96
AH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Woodbridge, ON
Country: Pakistan
Posts: 4,879
vCash: 500
Grabovski, Lapierre, O'Byrne, Chipchura, Emelin, Halak, Ryder, Halak ...

There is about a million different combos I have heard over the last week. My head hurts.

AH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 05:46 AM
  #97
Anthony P
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Why do you even post here?

Don't mind him, Montreal could have the next coming of Wayne Gretzky in our line up and he would find a way to undervalue him.... he just hates the Canadiens....

Anyone in their right mind would see the quality of at least 2 of the 3 players we offered.... Armstrong is a joke, that 1st round pick wont amount to anything because Atlanta can't scout for **** and Esposito is a huge question mark right now.... Christensen is the only decent player they got in that trade....

Anthony P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 06:38 AM
  #98
MatthewB
 
MatthewB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post

one year ago, Rob Schremp was labelled as cocky, and also as a player who would never make it. A bust. But a lot of things happened since then.. he'd be in the NHL right now if there's wasn't a bunch of centers on the Oilers. (Gagner, Stoll, Horcoff, Cogliano).
Horcoff is out for the season, which means there is a spot open at center on the oilers, then why is Schremp still playing in the AHL, if hes good enough to be playing in the NHL right now?

MatthewB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 06:47 AM
  #99
wedge
Registered User
 
wedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: victoriaville
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,440
vCash: 500
than I say...
Gainey

if we want to trade Higgins someday, we have to wait when his value is at his highest.

wedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 07:12 AM
  #100
LilWinger11
 
LilWinger11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 5,178
vCash: 500
I knew it! Well, I didn't know it, but I had a strong suspicion that Higgins was the deal breaker in this. Good for Gainey- I hated the idea of letting Higgins go, and the package Waddel wanted would have been huge overpayment for a rental.

I don't get Waddel's theory about American players drumming up interest in his team. If he had a player who had grown up in the area and come through Atlanta Minor Hockey or something, definitely, but I don't know how many non-hockey fans are going to start coming to games just because a few of the players happen to be American. I had been following the Habs for quite awhile before I could have told you where any of them except Saku and Higgy were from.

LilWinger11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.