HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Sergie Kostitsyn and John Tavares.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-28-2008, 02:50 PM
  #51
JrHockeyFan
Registered User
 
JrHockeyFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
oh man please stop....first of all sergei kostitstyn was playing with Patrick Kane and Sam Gagner...second, two words...Yannick Perrault
Tavares comparisons aside, Sergei was a well regarded OHL player before Gagner and Kane ever played for the Knights for one season. His first year was great when Tavares got ROTY

JrHockeyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 02:51 PM
  #52
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
Gagner has to play one of the worst teams in the league, when Sergei plays for one of the better ones. There are few things wrong with the Oilers team than Gagners defensive game, you cannot draw any conclusions from their plusminuses. Not to take anything away from Sergei, lets wait couple more years, until Gagner is same age.
Conclusions aren't based on +/- as that is a really messed up stat. You could be on the opposite side of the rink when the puck goes in and it will effect it.
Gagner has had more exposer to the NHL then Kostitsyn has.
I could understand and would agree is S.Kostitsyn had played some last year and Gagner is out scoring him, but he didn't. So the whole age argument and Gagner plays on a worse team holds no weight (well maybe the worse team).
If they played the same amount of time there would be a 3 pts difference at the rate they are going.

So how does age come into effect when this is BOTH their 1st season in the NHL and one has played 30 games more?

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 02:53 PM
  #53
JrHockeyFan
Registered User
 
JrHockeyFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
I'm not so sure about that fact though.
Actually you are correct he was picked up June 29th by London just 3 weeks ahead of the selection by the Habs July 22nd


Last edited by JrHockeyFan: 02-28-2008 at 03:01 PM.
JrHockeyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 02:53 PM
  #54
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 611
If any of you think I'm comparing Kosti to Tavares I'm not.

I'm questioning on how the NHL missed him and Montreal was able to snag this talented player. Judging by OHL point totals Kostitsyn should have been regarded more highly, but that doesn't matter anymore.

Its a debate people. There is always 2 sides.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 02:55 PM
  #55
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 15,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
If any of you think I'm comparing Kosti to Tavares I'm not.

I'm questioning on how the NHL missed him and Montreal was able to snag this talented player. Judging by OHL point totals Kostitsyn should have been regarded more highly, but that doesn't matter anymore.

Its a debate people. There is always 2 sides.
Read the first page. Someone clearly stated that he was chosen BEFORE he went to the OHL.

Before that I don't know where he was. If he was in Belarus then there's your answer as I doubt many scouts make their way over there.

le_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 02:57 PM
  #56
Vasculio
Booya !
 
Vasculio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: La Tuque
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Sorry can't compare Gagner to Kostitsyn, just stupid.

Gagner is 18, Sergei is 20.

Gagner plays in Edmonton a team much worse and in a harder conference while Sergei plays for a good team with great linemates.

Not to take anything away from Sergei as I think he will be one hell of a player but Gagner could very well be a premier centre in a few years.
Exactly what I was going to reply, this thread has so much nonsense replies, I just wanted to do the 'Picard move' over and over again...

Gagner is playing in a young, but bad team, and Kane is playing in a slightly better one, their teams can't be compared to Montreal. I don't think anyone's arguing that S.Kost is a bad player, in fact he will be a good one, already is a decent one, but Gagner and Kane will probably be the better ones.

And come on, Tavares was at Kostitsyn's level while being 2-3 years younger... he may become the next Daigle or Falloon or Brendl, but indications are that there's more chances he'll be the next superstar to come out of the junior ranks.

Oh and yeah, WJC is nearly 1 month long with all the implications...

Vasculio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:00 PM
  #57
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Read the first page. Someone clearly stated that he was chosen BEFORE he went to the OHL.

Before that I don't know where he was. If he was in Belarus then there's your answer as I doubt many scouts make their way over there.
Ya I missed that he was drafted before the NHL. I am talking about now and before he was called up.

I'm just wondering why there are no murmurs of Sergie anywhere.

Its not a comparison between him or anyone, its more a question of why no one has tried to steal him during the draft with a trade (unless obviously the Habs don't want to give him up).

I think next year he'll break out. I see him still kind of "shy" in the corners, but that will come with more experience.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:02 PM
  #58
JrHockeyFan
Registered User
 
JrHockeyFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Ya I missed that he was drafted before the NHL. I am talking about now and before he was called up.

I'm just wondering why there are no murmurs of Sergie anywhere.

Its not a comparison between him or anyone, its more a question of why no one has tried to steal him during the draft with a trade (unless obviously the Habs don't want to give him up).

I think next year he'll break out. I see him still kind of "shy" in the corners, but that will come with more experience.
Actually I made a mistake on that he was picked up in the CHL import draft about 3 weeks before the NHL draft in 2005

JrHockeyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:03 PM
  #59
Rayne*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiro View Post
Sam Gagner has 33 points in 61 games, with -15 and averaging 14:43 minutes of ice time per game. He has a ratio of 0,54 points per game.



Sergei Kostitsyn has 17 points in 34 games, with +3 and averaging 14:06 minutes of ice time per game. He has a ratio of 0,50 points per game.


With all the injuries in Edmonton, Sam Gagner had premier ice time on the powerplay and on even strenght and he doesn't deliver all that much. He is abysmal in his own zone and is weak, with -15 in the +/-

Sergei Kostitsyn received almost no powerplay time and still manage to put a ratio of 0,50 points per game while playing a very good two-way game, is aggressive and provides awesome forechecking abilities.


Sorry, but Sergei Kostitsyn is way more complete than Gagner.
S.Kostitsyn > Gagner for now

No doubt in my mind
And we've seen what your mind comes up with.

Gagner's a potential franchise forward, Kosty Jr is not. He's younger than Kosty and producing more on a far worse Edmonton team. A lot of his points came when he was playing bottom line minutes, so your arguments are laughable at best.

Rayne* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:04 PM
  #60
dutchy29
Registered User
 
dutchy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SIRISAACBROCKVILLE
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Sorry can't compare Gagner to Kostitsyn, just stupid.

Gagner is 18, Sergei is 20.

Gagner plays in Edmonton a team much worse and in a harder conference while Sergei plays for a good team with great linemates.

Not to take anything away from Sergei as I think he will be one hell of a player but Gagner could very well be a premier centre in a few years.

Glen Anderson was 14years old when he started playing organized hockey.

dutchy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:06 PM
  #61
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Actually I made a mistake on that he was picked up in the CHL import draft about 3 weeks before the NHL draft in 2005
Ah. Ty.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:07 PM
  #62
JrHockeyFan
Registered User
 
JrHockeyFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,521
vCash: 500
I'm not sure why folks are arguing about comparisons with Gagner.

Sam is a very smart and highly skilled player. He won't even turn 19 until this August. Sammy is the guy I would want if I had to pick between the two guys.

On the other hand, Sergei is showing with his totals that he is more than just a guy who played with "Kane, Gagner, Bolland and Schremp". If we can't have Sam I am glad we got Sergei

JrHockeyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:08 PM
  #63
JrHockeyFan
Registered User
 
JrHockeyFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,521
vCash: 500
CHL Import Draft announcement

KNIGHTS DRAFT KOSTITSYN AND KUBAT
London Knights General Manager Mark Hunter today announced that the team has selected Left Winger Siarhei Kostitsyn in the 1st Round ( 57th Overall ) in the 2005 CHL Import Draft. Kostitsyn, 18 played for Gomel in the Belarus Superleague last season. Siarhei is the younger brother of Andrei Kostitsyn who was the Montreal Canadiens 1st Round Pick in the 2003 NHL Draft. Siarhei Kostitsyn played for Belarus at the 2005 World Junior Hockey Championships in North Dakota.

In the 2nd Round the London Knights selected Defenceman Karel Kubat from Litvinov in the Czech Republic with the 62nd Pick in the 2005 CHL Import Draft. Kubat, 17 stands 6.01 and weighs 175 pounds.

SIARHEI KOSTITSYN
LW
6 0
190 lbs
March 20, 1987
Novopolotsk, Belarus

PS: In his second WJC Sergei was tourney MVP for the Tier 2 WJC championship

JrHockeyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:11 PM
  #64
Marksman
Registered User
 
Marksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Conclusions aren't based on +/- as that is a really messed up stat. You could be on the opposite side of the rink when the puck goes in and it will effect it.
Gagner has had more exposer to the NHL then Kostitsyn has.
I could understand and would agree is S.Kostitsyn had played some last year and Gagner is out scoring him, but he didn't. So the whole age argument and Gagner plays on a worse team holds no weight (well maybe the worse team).
If they played the same amount of time there would be a 3 pts difference at the rate they are going.

So how does age come into effect when this is BOTH their 1st season in the NHL and one has played 30 games more?
I believe Sergei is more mature. Right now hes two years stronger both mentally (hes playing hockey half way around the world, when Gagner only came from Ontario) and physically... thats where Gagner will be gaining on him.

Just a thought.

Marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:11 PM
  #65
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 15,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchy29 View Post
Glen Anderson was 14years old when he started playing organized hockey.
What does that have to do with what I said?

le_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:13 PM
  #66
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
I believe Sergei is more mature. Right now hes two years stronger both mentally (hes playing hockey half way around the world, when Gagner only came from Ontario) and physically... thats where Gagner will be gaining on him.
That is true with age, but both can flop, out do one another or be equal and really you can't tell right now especially since one of them as only played 34 games.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:14 PM
  #67
HotPie
Registered User
 
HotPie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
I believe Sergei is more mature. Right now hes two years stronger both mentally (hes playing hockey half way around the world, when Gagner only came from Ontario) and physically... thats where Gagner will be gaining on him.

Just a thought.
Dude I wouldn't argue with him. His arguments lack any semblance of logic.

HotPie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:16 PM
  #68
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
I'm not sure why folks are arguing about comparisons with Gagner.

Sam is a very smart and highly skilled player. He won't even turn 19 until this August. Sammy is the guy I would want if I had to pick between the two guys.

On the other hand, Sergei is showing with his totals that he is more than just a guy who played with "Kane, Gagner, Bolland and Schremp". If we can't have Sam I am glad we got Sergei
You're over 25 [sarcastic] and have seen a lot of Jr. hockey. How often do you see a Jr. point producer that everyone seems to know, just won't be a pro point producer. A guy named Guy Rouleau was an example in the Q., he was a point machine and then couldn't nail down a job in the AHL. Les freres LeBeau to a much lesser extent, Corey Locke.

Do you think that SK just got a tag of soft Euro Jr. point producer ? He got stereotyped as a guy who'd only excel at one level ? Lots of guys litter the top 10 very year that never get a sniff.

mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:17 PM
  #69
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
Dude I wouldn't argue with him. His arguments lack any semblance of logic.
How do I lack logic in saying THERE IS A 30 GAME DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.
Its truly illogical to think Gagner is better.

Its like saying Malkin is better then Crosby because he has 84 points while Crosby has 64.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:20 PM
  #70
HotPie
Registered User
 
HotPie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
How do I lack logic in saying THERE IS A 30 GAME DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.
Its truly illogical to think Gagner is better.

Its like saying Malkin is better then Crosby because he has 84 points while Crosby has 64.
No it's called Gagner has a higher PPG ratio than Sergei, on a much weaker team, while being 2 years younger.

I like how you dodged my previous post too.

HotPie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:27 PM
  #71
Erika
Registered User
 
Erika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ville Lasalle
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
And we've seen what your mind comes up with.

Gagner's a potential franchise forward, Kosty Jr is not. He's younger than Kosty and producing more on a far worse Edmonton team. A lot of his points came when he was playing bottom line minutes, so your arguments are laughable at best.
You said it yourself, most of his points came from playing on the 3rd line, which means since the Horcoff injury, he didn't prove that he could take his game to another level, because he isn't producing as expected.

Fact is, recently, with the Injury of Horcoff, he was suppose to step up and take his spot, but it is not a succes at this moment, which was predictable because he's still a rookie. With that said, Gagner isn't doing anything spectacular at this moment and he IS NOT better than Kostitsyn right now, because Sergei is way more complete of a player and Kostitsyn has as good playmaking skills if not better than Gagner.

Since day one, even when Sergei Kostitsyn wasn't drafted, I knew that teams would've regret it to pass on him. I was right. I've said also that he was awesome in the OHL not because of Kane and Gagner. I was right. They benefited from playing with each others and I knew at that moment that he would be a star in the future.

At the beginning of the year, I was mad because Sergei didn't made the cut. I though it was unfair because he was better than half of the Habs roster. I was right again, he is on the team now. I've also predicted that Sergei would be back here comes December, because he's too good for the AHL and Guess what, I was right once again.

Now, I'm almost certain that Sergei Kostitsyn will be fantastic offensive thread who will be able to put around 70-80 points per year while being a hard worker with agressive and physical edge in his game and a great two-way play.

I'm even ready to put my hand in the fire that this kid will be great in this league.
I've said it and I will say it again, Sergei Kostitsyn will be a Star, Mark My words

Erika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:29 PM
  #72
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
No it's called Gagner has a higher PPG ratio than Sergei, on a much weaker team, while being 2 years younger.

I like how you dodged my previous post too.
That's not logic and its a 0.04 difference in ratio. For a guy that has only played HALF of his counter part and for it to be a such a small difference, you can not justify him being better even if he is 2 years younger.
They are BOTH in their 1st NHL season, actually if you want to technical, 1 is in his 1st NHL season as it looks like he'll 81 games while the other will finish with less then 50.

There is no logic behind what you are trying to argue

I did reply to the other post and I guess wasn't sent to the server and I really don't feel like typing it out again.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:31 PM
  #73
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiro View Post
You said it yourself, most of his points came from playing on the 3rd line, which means since the Horcoff injury, he didn't prove that he could take his game to another level, because he isn't producing as expected.

Fact is, recently, with the Injury of Horcoff, he was suppose to step up and take his spot, but it is not a succes at this moment, which was predictable because he's still a rookie. With that said, Gagner isn't doing anything spectacular at this moment and he IS NOT better than Kostitsyn right now, because Sergei is way more complete of a player and Kostitsyn has as good playmaking skills if not better than Gagner.

Since day one, even when Sergei Kostitsyn wasn't drafted, I knew that teams would've regret it to pass on him. I was right. I've said also that he was awesome in the OHL not because of Kane and Gagner. I was right. They benefited from playing with each others and I knew at that moment that he would be a star in the future.

At the beginning of the year, I was mad because Sergei didn't made the cut. I though it was unfair because he was better than half of the Habs roster. I was right again, he is on the team. I've also predicted that Sergei would be back here comes December, because he's too good for the AHL and Guess what, I was right once again.

Now, I'm almost certain that Sergei Kostitsyn will be fantastic offensive thread who will be able to put around 70-80 points per year while being a hard worker with agressive and physical edge in his game and a great two-way play.

I'm even ready to put my hand in the fire that this kid will be great in this league.
I've said it and I will say it again, Sergei Kostitsyn will be a Star, Mark My words
Gagner has played on the 1st line for a limited amount of time, from what I recall watching those late night Oilers games on the NHL Network.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:36 PM
  #74
HotPie
Registered User
 
HotPie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
That's not logic and its a 0.04 difference in ratio. For a guy that has only played HALF of his counter part and for it to be a such a small difference, you can not justify him being better even if he is 2 years younger.
They are BOTH in their 1st NHL season, actually if you want to technical, 1 is in his 1st NHL season as it looks like he'll 81 games while the other will finish with less then 50.

There is no logic behind what you are trying to argue

I did reply to the other post and I guess wasn't sent to the server and I really don't feel like typing it out again.
No, there's no logic behind what YOU'RE trying to argue. They're both in their first season. One is two years younger. One is playing for a terrible team with a goal differential of -20 while the other is playing with one of the better teams with in his conference.

You have yet to making a SINGLE logical argument as to why Sergei is a better player than Sam.

I'll use your own arguments on you. How can you justify Sergei being better when Sam has a higher PPG, and plays on one of the worst teams in the league but is still their 4th highest scorer. If Sergei had played the same amount of games and kept his PPG ratio the same, he would still be THE EIGHTH BEST SCORER ON THE TEAM.

Please, give me one solid logical argument.

HotPie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2008, 03:38 PM
  #75
Passchendaele
Registered User
 
Passchendaele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Laval, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,396
vCash: 500
Gagner plays on one of the worst teams in the league. He had a lot of 3rd/4th line minutes at the beginning of the season.

Last 16 games:

Gagner - 4 G 13 A 17 PTS.
Kostitsyn - 4 G 3 A 7 PTS

Gagner was barely 18 when the season started.

Kostitsyn will never be better than Gagner or Kane.

Passchendaele is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.