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How to (cheaply) make Buffalo a contender..

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Old
02-02-2004, 06:16 AM
  #1
TehDoak
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How to (cheaply) make Buffalo a contender..

First, Buffalo would need to move some salary, dump Satan somewhere....the trade seemed most balanced that i've seen:

To Dallas: Satan, Afinogenov (-6.05)
To Buffalo: Ott and Erskine (+1.6)
Total: -4.45

Next step....add scoring to replace Satan

To Buffalo: O'Neill, Hill (+5.75)
To Carolina: Pyatt, Pomniville (-1.75)
Total: +4 million for Buffalo

Further Reinforce Defense:
To Calgary: Brown, Prospect/2nd round pick (-1.6)
To Buffalo: Gauither (+1.3 million)
Total (-.3 million)

Finally, add the missing pieces:
To Edmonton: McKee, Noronen, Kotalik (-3.05)
To Buffalo: Smith, Smyth (+5.75)
Total: +2.7 million

Dump off the remainder:
To Anyone: delmore (-1 million)
To Buffalo: futures

Total salary added: .95 million
New Buffalo roster:

Smyth-Drury-O'Neill
Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Ott-Roy-Bartonic
Peters-Taylor-Mair

Zhitnik-Smith
Kalinin-Hill
Gauither-Erskine

Biron
Miller

Buffalo would have a nasty tope line to play against, and a strong deep defense.

Also, Tallinder could be added to any deal to actually make all the salaries nearly even out (if tallinder were sent with any deal and no salary was brought back, Buffalo only be adding .3 million)

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02-02-2004, 06:22 AM
  #2
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If only it was that easy... :p

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02-02-2004, 06:23 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
First, Buffalo would need to move some salary, dump Satan somewhere....the trade seemed most balanced that i've seen:

To Dallas: Satan, Afinogenov (-6.05)
To Buffalo: Ott and Erskine (+1.6)
Total: -4.45
Not sure whether Stars fans are willing to part with the Snott, but even then, I think the Stars have to add their first or at least Columbus' 2nd into the mix, as it's not like they receive two 35+'ers. Man it will be tough to deal Ott, but this deal favours the Stars and could make them one of the favorite's.

Miroslav Satan - Mike Modano - Jere Lehtinen
Maxim Afinogenov - Pierre Turgeon - Scott Young
Brenden Morrow - Jason Arnott - Bill Guerin
Stu Barnes - Niko Kapanen - Rob DiMaio

Here's another one:

Martin Biron and Henrik Tallinder for Roman Hamrlik (20% paid)?

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02-02-2004, 06:31 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
First, Buffalo would need to move some salary, dump Satan somewhere....the trade seemed most balanced that i've seen:

To Dallas: Satan, Afinogenov (-6.05)
To Buffalo: Ott and Erskine (+1.6)
Total: -4.45
I don't think Dallas would do this. Not because of the lack of value going to them, but I can't see what they'd do with Satan and Afinogenov. They seem to be pretty set on their forwards I'd imagine. Also, bringing an underachieving forward to an underachieving team isn't the best idea, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Next step....add scoring to replace Satan

To Buffalo: O'Neill, Hill (+5.75)
To Carolina: Pyatt, Pomniville (-1.75)
Total: +4 million for Buffalo
I don't know a lot of Pominville, but he'd have to be an amazing prospect to bring in O'Neill. I think there are other teams that would be willing to give up more for O'Neill. I could see Vancouver offering up more then that, unless Carolina happens to be really high on Pyatt, although they'd still want something more, imo (significantly more I'd think). I think they would ask for someone like Hecht in return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Further Reinforce Defense:
To Calgary: Brown, Prospect/2nd round pick (-1.6)
To Buffalo: Gauither (+1.3 million)
Total (-.3 million)
Brown doesn't add anything to Calgary. They already have a similar type player in Yelle. If they want to get rid of Gauthier it shouldn't take much more then a 2nd round pick, though (especially Buffalo's). Only problem being is that Calgary is trying to make the playoffs. Trading a roster player for a pick and a player that doesn't add much for their team wouldn't do it for them. I think they would want Dumont or maybe Pyatt if they decided to trade Gauthier. I doubt Buffalo moves Dumont, however. Not sure if Calgary would trade him for Pyatt either, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Finally, add the missing pieces:
To Edmonton: McKee, Noronen, Kotalik (-3.05)
To Buffalo: Smith, Smyth (+5.75)
Total: +2.7 million
I don't think this would happen either. It doesn't seem to do much for Edmonton. I, however, am a little bit out of touch with Edmonton's plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Dump off the remainder:
To Anyone: delmore (-1 million)
To Buffalo: futures
I believe Delmore passed through waivers earlier. I don't think anyone will touch him. Regardless, it's relatively minor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Total salary added: .95 million
New Buffalo roster:

Smyth-Drury-O'Neill
Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Ott-Roy-Bartonic
Peters-Taylor-Mair

Zhitnik-Smith
Kalinin-Hill
Gauither-Erskine

Biron
Miller

Buffalo would have a nasty tope line to play against, and a strong deep defense.

Also, Tallinder could be added to any deal to actually make all the salaries nearly even out (if tallinder were sent with any deal and no salary was brought back, Buffalo only be adding .3 million)
That would look awesome for Buffalo, however it simply won't happen. Teams won't make the kind of trades you suggested, as in most of the cases it doesn't do anything for them or there are better offers to be found elsewhere.


Last edited by Arastiroth: 02-02-2004 at 06:36 AM.
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02-02-2004, 06:57 AM
  #5
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Yeah, no dice with the Calgary trade, given that we're not looking at taking picks when we're trying to make the playoffs. Brown would be nice, but with the presence of Lombardi and the soon-returning Yelle, Brown would find himself out of place. Although he is definetely a Sutter-type player.

As for Pyatt, any other day I'd do that trade straight up, but since we have Gelinas, McAmmond and Sappy manning the top-three lines, I doubt we really need him. Our most pressing need at this point is a legitimate second-line right winger with offensive punch. Dumont would be most desireable, although Buffalo shouldn't (and wouldn't) give up this type of player.

Good try, though.

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02-02-2004, 10:26 AM
  #6
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OMG! dont you people remember we are rebuilding?! the playoffs would be nice but no where NEAR essential. in a few years we will have a VERY good team. for now, trading for boughner would do us well, and give us a defense that could give up less than the 30+ shots we give up now. IF you want success now go suppot Colorado! people who want to make contenders out of rebuilding franchises are utter idiots. same people who take the piss out of pittsburgh without understanding that they have a boatload of young talent who will turn into another amazing pittsburgh team some day.

theres my rant.

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02-02-2004, 12:35 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
Yeah, no dice with the Calgary trade, given that we're not looking at taking picks when we're trying to make the playoffs. Brown would be nice, but with the presence of Lombardi and the soon-returning Yelle, Brown would find himself out of place. Although he is definetely a Sutter-type player.

As for Pyatt, any other day I'd do that trade straight up, but since we have Gelinas, McAmmond and Sappy manning the top-three lines, I doubt we really need him. Our most pressing need at this point is a legitimate second-line right winger with offensive punch. Dumont would be most desireable, although Buffalo shouldn't (and wouldn't) give up this type of player.

Good try, though.
Are you kidding me? Calgary should be all over that like a fat chick on a smartie. That is a great return for Gauthier and one that would help the team now and in the future. Brown meets a pressing need and would allow the Flames to deal Conroy to another team, getting something for nothing. The second round pick from Buffalo will be early second round in the 30-40 range. That should garner a good prospect. Sorry, but I think Calgary is all over this deal and doesn't think twice about it.

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02-02-2004, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
OMG! dont you people remember we are rebuilding?! the playoffs would be nice but no where NEAR essential. in a few years we will have a VERY good team. for now, trading for boughner would do us well, and give us a defense that could give up less than the 30+ shots we give up now. IF you want success now go suppot Colorado! people who want to make contenders out of rebuilding franchises are utter idiots. same people who take the piss out of pittsburgh without understanding that they have a boatload of young talent who will turn into another amazing pittsburgh team some day.

theres my rant.
All of the 'amazing' talent Buffalo has wasn't touched....Vanek, Roy and Miller are all still sabres after the deals are done, the only young players traded are Pyatt and Pomniville. I agree, Buffalo should be rebuilding....but its fun to try and turn them into a good team rather quickly.

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02-02-2004, 02:08 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
Not sure whether Stars fans are willing to part with the Snott, but even then, I think the Stars have to add their first or at least Columbus' 2nd into the mix, as it's not like they receive two 35+'ers. Man it will be tough to deal Ott, but this deal favours the Stars and could make them one of the favorite's.

Miroslav Satan - Mike Modano - Jere Lehtinen
Maxim Afinogenov - Pierre Turgeon - Scott Young
Brenden Morrow - Jason Arnott - Bill Guerin
Stu Barnes - Niko Kapanen - Rob DiMaio

Here's another one:

Martin Biron and Henrik Tallinder for Roman Hamrlik (20% paid)?
Stars probably could use Noronen instead of Afinogenov if Buff would take Kapanen and a pick instead of Ott

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02-02-2004, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Starsdude
Stars probably could use Noronen instead of Afinogenov if Buff would take Kapanen and a pick instead of Ott
How so? Noronen isn't exactly the type of goalie I'd like to have just in case Turco goes down. Might as well bring up one of Ellis, Smith or Cash. Makes no sense, it's the deepest position in the organisation IIRC. While a player of Afinogenov's potential is unfamiliar.

And I personaly doubt they would take a 5'10, two way center when they are trying to aquire grit and size instead. They also have Briere, Drury, Brown and Mair down the middle with a lot more center playing out of position, don't forget that.

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02-02-2004, 04:11 PM
  #11
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On paper it looks a little better...but what about chemistry. That's a pretty big turnover in the locker room.

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02-02-2004, 04:25 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
Martin Biron and Henrik Tallinder for Roman Hamrlik (20% paid)?
Three main problems with this:

1) Isles wouldn't want Biron, they already have one of the game's best young goalies.

2) Tallinder is not good enough to play in the Isles top four (at least at the present time - in a few years he should be quite good) and is not the physical banger the Isles seem to need. So, he probably wouldn't be of any real interest.

3) If Isles are going to trade Hamrlik, it is going to be a salary dump and they are not going to pay his salary. They sure as heck wouldn't pay his salary in return for two players they don't even want.

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02-02-2004, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Three main problems with this:

1) Isles wouldn't want Biron, they already have one of the game's best young goalies.

2) Tallinder is not good enough to play in the Isles top four (at least at the present time - in a few years he should be quite good) and is not the physical banger the Isles seem to need. So, he probably wouldn't be of any real interest.

3) If Isles are going to trade Hamrlik, it is going to be a salary dump and they are not going to pay his salary. They sure as heck wouldn't pay his salary in return for two players they don't even want.
1) One who has a boat load of potential but isn't quite ready yet to throw him at the playoffs. Also, we don't have a young and quality backup. A Biron/DiPietro combo would be golden for years to come.

2) Hamrlik's departure would save up money, whereas Tallinder IMO, would do very well with 3 great talents surrounding him on the blueline.

3) Good point, but I am really high on Biron so it might be willing to pay a small bit of Hammer's salary.

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02-02-2004, 04:42 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
1) One who has a boat load of potential but isn't quite ready yet to throw him at the playoffs. Also, we don't have a young and quality backup. A Biron/DiPietro combo would be golden for years to come.

3) Good point, but I am really high on Biron so it might be willing to pay a small bit of Hammer's salary.
It makes no sense to have two #1's, especially if they are both quality. It'll just create tension in the locker room -- the last thing a team should want. Look at what was going on earlier in the season with Hasek and CuJo. The Islanders have no need at all in a young goaltender. In fact, I would think they would want a vet backup goalie who could help DiPietro by tutoring him a little, and be solid enough to take over a couple times if/when needed.

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02-02-2004, 05:02 PM
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Personally, I think that roster is no better than what they already have.

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02-02-2004, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tanguay40
It makes no sense to have two #1's, especially if they are both quality. It'll just create tension in the locker room -- the last thing a team should want. Look at what was going on earlier in the season with Hasek and CuJo. The Islanders have no need at all in a young goaltender. In fact, I would think they would want a vet backup goalie who could help DiPietro by tutoring him a little, and be solid enough to take over a couple times if/when needed.
Exactly. What we really need down the road is a better version of Snow. A 35-YO John VBK would be great, but of course those sort of players are not out there easily available.

Tallinder, I'm not sold on. I think he'll be a solid dman, but he is not the sort of player the Isles need (a mean nasty dman, who is in his prime).


BTW, this deal probably wouldn't work for the Sabres either, since they get older and more expensive and not a whole lot better in the longterm.


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02-02-2004, 06:45 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
All of the 'amazing' talent Buffalo has wasn't touched....Vanek, Roy and Miller are all still sabres after the deals are done, the only young players traded are Pyatt and Pomniville. I agree, Buffalo should be rebuilding....but its fun to try and turn them into a good team rather quickly.
i didnt read it, i just read the title. Pomiville is still untradable imho. i think we should trade people like Satan after the season, for Defensive prospects. something we are mega weak on.

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02-02-2004, 07:11 PM
  #18
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It would take Darcy Regier 15 years to make that many trades.

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02-02-2004, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
i didnt read it, i just read the title. Pomiville is still untradable imho. i think we should trade people like Satan after the season, for Defensive prospects. something we are mega weak on.
Pomniville has had one good season at the AHL level....and now he's untradable? I would rate him 4th amongst Buffalo's forward prospects (Paille, Vanek, and Roy) with Gaustaud and MacArthur close behind. Is he a good prospect? Yes, he is. Is he untradable....not even close. His upside is a soft, 2nd line forward who can net 50-60 pts with decent linemates. His downside is an AHL regular. My guess is he will probably be a 3rd line regular when he finally learns to play some defense and will be a 30-40 point 2 way winger ala Dixon Ward in his prime.

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02-03-2004, 12:38 AM
  #20
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Here's my take:

Guys I'd like to move:

Kotalik (while he still has any value at all)
Campbell
Brown
Delmore

For the right price:

Satan
Dumont (seems to have a lot of value right now)
Afinogenov
Pyatt (but moving him is probably not worth the gamble)
Noronen


Zhitnik and Biron are 2 guys I want to keep around for a playoff push.

I say we dangle Brown and/or Kotalik for someone like Sean Hill or Jason Smith.
We wouldnt lose a step offensively, and we'd get a heck of a lot better on the back end. If we could land Gonchar too it would be awesome.

My 2 trades before the deadline would be:

1) Brown/Noronen/6th round pick to EDM for Jason Smith/2nd round pick
2) Kotalik/Campbell/2nd round pick to WASH for Gonchar
3) Trade Delmore with any means possible to save $$
*not sure about the salary we pick up but it sounds like Mr. G is ready to take it*

New Sabres:

Hecht-Briere-Dumont - GOOD CHEMISTRY
Pyatt-Drury-Satan - LOOKED GOOD WHEN PLAYING TOGETHER EARLIER IN THE SEASON
Bartovic-Roy-Afinogenov - FASTEST WINGERS IN THE LEAGUE
Peters-Mair-Taylor - 2 GREAT 4TH LINERS WITH THE BEAST FROM THE EAST (ask Domi!)

Zhitnik-Kalinin - ALREADY SOLID!!
Gonchar-Tallinder - OHH BOY!!
Smith-Mckee - SHUT SH** DOWN!!

Biron
Miller

EXTRAS: Taylor, Boulton, Botterill, Fitzpatrick, Patrick

READ THIS DARCY!!!!

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02-03-2004, 10:58 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Pomniville has had one good season at the AHL level....and now he's untradable? I would rate him 4th amongst Buffalo's forward prospects (Paille, Vanek, and Roy) with Gaustaud and MacArthur close behind. Is he a good prospect? Yes, he is. Is he untradable....not even close. His upside is a soft, 2nd line forward who can net 50-60 pts with decent linemates. His downside is an AHL regular. My guess is he will probably be a 3rd line regular when he finally learns to play some defense and will be a 30-40 point 2 way winger ala Dixon Ward in his prime.
ouch. that's a little hard imho. i think he will be better than that.

but think, Roy, paille, Vanek and pomiville heading our attack, then we can score more than 2 goals a game.

BTW, Gonchar is another Offensive Dman who isnt great defensivly and wont solve our problem of only having 1 mckee who's rarely playing. we need a pysical Dman who can clear the slot. ala Warrener. luckly their quite commen.

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02-03-2004, 01:22 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
1) Brown/Noronen/6th round pick to EDM for Jason Smith/2nd round pick
2) Kotalik/Campbell/2nd round pick to WASH for Gonchar
3) Trade Delmore with any means possible to save $$
*not sure about the salary we pick up but it sounds like Mr. G is ready to take it*
1) I don't think Edmondton would go for that. Brown, IMHO, doesn't have much value to a non playoff team. Also, Edm. would end up ADDING salary AND losing a 2nd round pick? Sorry, just no way.
2)no way Washington makes that deal. They will get much better offers from the large market teams, much much better offers.

Gonchar is a great offensive d-man.....he would be Buffalo's leading scorer if he came over right now. I also agree that Buffalo needs to get at least one stay at home d-man, two if they trade McKee.

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02-03-2004, 01:25 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
ouch. that's a little hard imho. i think he will be better than that.

but think, Roy, paille, Vanek and pomiville heading our attack, then we can score more than 2 goals a game.

BTW, Gonchar is another Offensive Dman who isnt great defensivly and wont solve our problem of only having 1 mckee who's rarely playing. we need a pysical Dman who can clear the slot. ala Warrener. luckly their quite commen.
I agree....Buffalo needs some good crease clearing d-men.....but to say that Paille, Vanek, Roy and Pomniville will be leading hte offense soon, is well, just not true. Vanek could do it, but likley is 2 or 3 season's away and Paille could do it as well...but he is closer to 4-5 seasons away. And Pomniville will never LEAD the offense....he will be a complimentary player.

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02-03-2004, 02:55 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
A couple of things. Generally I like it. I'm not sure you are offering enough in some circumstances (Gonchar), or too much (Smith) in others.

Tallinder cannot play RD.

I like the idea of dealing Kotalik. Pyatt could also play with Roy and Bartovic, as he can fly, but adds some physicality.
Thanks for the input LALA.
I think Kotalik should be moved ASAP. His value at season's end with be minimal compared to what it is now. He sparked our interest last year when we were desperate for someone to step up but he will never become a special player. We need to move one of our inconsistent wingers for a D-man, I don't see why not.
One of Kotalik, Dumont, Afino, Brown gotta go.
Who do you think is a better fit for us Sean Hill or Jason Smith?
Are our assets more appealing to Carolina or Edmonton?

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02-03-2004, 03:27 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
I agree....Buffalo needs some good crease clearing d-men.....but to say that Paille, Vanek, Roy and Pomniville will be leading hte offense soon, is well, just not true. Vanek could do it, but likley is 2 or 3 season's away and Paille could do it as well...but he is closer to 4-5 seasons away. And Pomniville will never LEAD the offense....he will be a complimentary player.
oh yeh, Vanek those 5! will all be offensive leaders imho. Pomville probably 3rd/4th. max

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