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How badly do you want to see MacT gone?

View Poll Results: Do you want MacT here to start the next season?
He must go, turfing him is priority #1. 26 35.62%
He should be gone. 11 15.07%
It's probably best if he's gone. 9 12.33%
I'd like to see him gone, but we can't afford to buy him out. 14 19.18%
Undecided, if he's fired or stays on I'm fine with it. 8 10.96%
I'd rather they kept him. 2 2.74%
He should definitely stay on. 1 1.37%
He is a great coach, firing him would be disastrous! 2 2.74%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-01-2004, 06:46 PM
  #1
Oi'll say!
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How badly do you want to see MacT gone?

10

Keep him 'til the end of the season to ensure our spot in the draft is good, then buy him out.

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Old
02-01-2004, 06:58 PM
  #2
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badly and that is my opinion. this team is going nowhere with him as head coach not saying they are a playoff team but a change is needed.

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02-01-2004, 07:03 PM
  #3
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10.

No excuses, no apologies.

Just get rid of him.

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Old
02-01-2004, 07:10 PM
  #4
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Don't fire him, he has no players to work with. He is not the problem the personnell is. Plus it would make no business sense to fire him, financially it won't work. He is a good coach.

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02-01-2004, 07:12 PM
  #5
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so walsher is of the opinion that it is the players fault, ok trade the lot of them instead and begin a total rebuild, yeah right a plastic surgeons dream. lets load up the team with mact favorites and see how that goes.

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02-01-2004, 08:01 PM
  #6
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Seriously I thought that the guy who chose the bottom option there was Lanny McDonald or Bicycle repairman.

Walsher???

What's your opinion on the line juggling and the favoratism that he has been accused of?

The guy had brainwaves like putting MC on to take a defensive zone draw against Modano with 11 seconds left in a period for Pete's sake!

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02-01-2004, 08:13 PM
  #7
Walsher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola
so walsher is of the opinion that it is the players fault, ok trade the lot of them instead and begin a total rebuild, yeah right a plastic surgeons dream. lets load up the team with mact favorites and see how that goes.
I love it when people talk about "MacT favorites". Who are these players again? Horcoff? Yes he is average but what is the alternative? Bishai obviously reinforces how pathetic the depth is at center. Salo? He is the only #1 goalie this team has no matter how blind most people are to this fact. Ferguson? Again what is the alternative? MAB is not NHL ready, neither are any of Lynch, Greene, Woywitka. Ferguson is a good #6-7 d-man on a team like this. Is it MacT's problem that Ryan Smyth has been borderline useless this year? Did MacT ice the puck with 1:20 or so trying to get a selfish empty netter? How bout all the selfish penalties, did MacT do that too? Did MacT stink in net to start the season? Did MacT force Laraque to wait 46 games to score? Did MacT want Brewer, Staios to play below average for the majority of the season? No. The PP and PK sucks and yes that has something to do with coaching. Simpson is in charge of that aspect so wouldn't he be the man to have his head chopped? Does the PP have anything to do with Ryan Smyth's lack of production or the teams inability to acquire a decent offensive defenseman, or the poor play of Oates? Or is it only MacT? Why were Toronto and New York heavily courting MacT in the offseason? It must have been because he is an aweful coach. I also suppose the injuries to Reasoner, Smith, Brewer, Salo, York, Isbister, Cross, etc. throughout the year were caused by poor coaching. IMO what needs to happen is for Lowe to get rid of some of the dead wood on this team. Smyth has proven he is lacking interest here no matter what he says in the media. Laraque is a high priced goon with little talent or actual hockey ability. 20-20 Georges - never going to happen. Jason Smith is a warrior but lets face it at his price for this summer he isn't worth it. You can make Jason Smith's you can't make talent. Bring some players in with any kind of determination. Firing MacT just wastes money and accomplishes little. Everyone bashes me when I suggest trading Ryan Smyth. "Where would the loyalty be in trading Smyth?" "He bleeds Oilers blue!" "He took less money to stay". MacT did all of those and more. His career as an Oilers IMO was more impressive than Smyth's. He stayed here when he could have cashed in elsewhere. He is a really good coach.

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Old
02-01-2004, 08:16 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
Seriously I thought that the guy who chose the bottom option there was Lanny McDonald or Bicycle repairman.

Walsher???

What's your opinion on the line juggling and the favoratism that he has been accused of?

The guy had brainwaves like putting MC on to take a defensive zone draw against Modano with 11 seconds left in a period for Pete's sake!
Line juggling is meant to spur people on. Scotty Bowman juggled his lines more times in one period than MacT does in a week. Does that make Scotty Bowman a terrible coach? He is trying to get plugs like Smyth, Hemsky, Horcoff, and the rest going. When Mike York, Radek Dvorak, and Raffi Torres are the only guys that put in a consistent effort and at least produce something is wrong with the personell. Favortism? Like I just said tell me who he plays favorites with. IMO Smyth has gotten more ice time than he has deserved, if he is a "favorite" than I agree with you, otherwise that comment is ridiculous.

If a defensive zone faceoff in another season is the only evidence of bad coaching than I suggest you dig deeper.

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02-01-2004, 08:24 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Line juggling is meant to spur people on. Scotty Bowman juggled his lines more times in one period than MacT does in a week. Does that make Scotty Bowman a terrible coach? He is trying to get plugs like Smyth, Hemsky, Horcoff, and the rest going. When Mike York, Radek Dvorak, and Raffi Torres are the only guys that put in a consistent effort and at least produce something is wrong with the personell. Favortism? Like I just said tell me who he plays favorites with. IMO Smyth has gotten more ice time than he has deserved, if he is a "favorite" than I agree with you, otherwise that comment is ridiculous.

If a defensive zone faceoff in another season is the only evidence of bad coaching than I suggest you dig deeper.
Bowman almost always kept pairs together though. He'd have two players that work'd together, then when the line wasn't playing well, he switched two players around to just slightly change two lines. Sure they changed, but it's still 2/3rds the same, rather than 1/3.

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02-01-2004, 08:34 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Bowman almost always kept pairs together though. He'd have two players that work'd together, then when the line wasn't playing well, he switched two players around to just slightly change two lines. Sure they changed, but it's still 2/3rds the same, rather than 1/3.
York-Dvo-Torres in some combination have almost been together all year
RPM would have been together all year
Nothing with Ryan SMyth has worked so you have to move him around
Stoll,Laraque have been together most of the year when they are in the lineup

Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky - didn't work
Smyth-Oates-Hemsky - didn't work
Isbister-Oates-Smyth - didn't work
Smyth-Horcoff-Pisani - worked. Well what do you know 1/3 of lines and they worked. Geez those line combinations sure are brutal

Torres-York-Dvo - worked
Izzy-York-Dvo - worked
Stoll-Laraque-Torres - worked

IMO the line that haven't worked have included Ryan Smyth. The majority of the juggling has been in an attempt to get him going. It hasn't worked thus MacT looks bad. You cannot win with 1 line producing especially with the Oilers talent. Of course Bowman kept 2 players the same. He had a team of all stars and some of the players have chemistry together. The oilers have 1 line with chemistry. Why keep the other plugs together when they accomplish nothing together? I fully understand the juggling.

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02-01-2004, 08:35 PM
  #11
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I picked that it's probably best if he's gone, but it's not out of any malice towards him. After 4 years of being the head guy for this team, I think he's simply run out of gas and ideas with the players that are currently here.

When this team misses the playoffs, either MacT will resign or there will be massive changes to this lineup...Smyth, Smith, Laraque, Salo and Ferguson just to name a few.

This team is spiralling towards a massive rebuild, and I wonder if MacT would really want to be a part of that. He definitely seems more comfortable dealing with vets than with younger players.

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02-01-2004, 08:41 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
I picked that it's probably best if he's gone, but it's not out of any malice towards him. After 4 years of being the head guy for this team, I think he's simply run out of gas and ideas with the players that are currently here.

When this team misses the playoffs, either MacT will resign or there will be massive changes to this lineup...Smyth, Smith, Laraque, Salo and Ferguson just to name a few.

This team is spiralling towards a massive rebuild, and I wonder if MacT would really want to be a part of that. He definitely seems more comfortable dealing with vets than with younger players.
That's my biggest problem with Mac-T right there. I agree with you Walsher, he's been forced to deal with a team full of players having bad years(namely Smyth). But I put part of the blame on him. I voted to keep him only as a financial standpoint though. He is good at dealing with veterans, but he doesn't have the patience to deal with young players IMO. Does it make him a bad coach? No. Does it make him the wrong coach for this team? Yes.

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02-01-2004, 08:42 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Don't fire him, he has no players to work with. He is not the problem the personnell is. Plus it would make no business sense to fire him, financially it won't work. He is a good coach.
how is he a good coach? he changes the lines every couple of games and the powerplay unit doesnt even have a main unit. like selanne* said how am i going to get chemistry with kariya by playing 2games with him. give me at least 5 or more.
mact's goal is to have 4lines being solid checkers. he doesnt want a scoring line but 4lines that will dump and chase. if we ever got lecaviler he would be benched every game for trying to be creative because mact hates that ****.

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02-01-2004, 08:45 PM
  #14
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Ergo, MacT Go!

MacT is not a bench coach and he is a poor motivational leader. I chose option #1 because if he starts as coach for the next hockey season played and the Oilers perform better he just might be kept on. The Oilers' bad bounch quotion is now so badly skewed that the Oilers will definitely do better in the next campaign even if they weaken their line-up.

Coach Craig will never be the inpirational leader to take the Oilers to the promised iced plateau of excellence. Even with the best of bounces a MacT coached team will never rise above the mediocre. So if the lines don't arrange, gotta' make that change. If player's faith he's lost, then he's gotta' pay the cost.

Ergo, MacT go!

Maye Coach Craig could go to MacT-go-Bay for a little sand and salt spray; where he could relax all day!

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02-01-2004, 08:46 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrush
how is he a good coach? he changes the lines every couple of games and the powerplay unit doesnt even have a main unit. like selanne* said how am i going to get chemistry with kariya by playing 2games with him. give me at least 5 or more.
mact's goal is to have 4lines being solid checkers. he doesnt want a scoring line but 4lines that will dump and chase. if we ever got lecaviler he would be benched every game for trying to be creative because mact hates that ****.

MacT has 4 lines of checkers because he has 23 checkers on his team (minus York). He doesn't have a Karyia or Selanne. Does Pisani want to stick with Horcoff because they have this great chemistry? How bout Moreau and Stoll? Laraque and Torres? Hemsky and Smyth? Oates and anyone? None of these players are effective how can they be so amazing. He moves them around because they play together and they stink.

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02-01-2004, 08:47 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
York-Dvo-Torres in some combination have almost been together all year
RPM would have been together all year
Nothing with Ryan SMyth has worked so you have to move him around
Stoll,Laraque have been together most of the year when they are in the lineup

Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky - didn't work
Smyth-Oates-Hemsky - didn't work
Isbister-Oates-Smyth - didn't work
Smyth-Horcoff-Pisani - worked. Well what do you know 1/3 of lines and they worked. Geez those line combinations sure are brutal

Torres-York-Dvo - worked
Izzy-York-Dvo - worked
Stoll-Laraque-Torres - worked

IMO the line that haven't worked have included Ryan Smyth. The majority of the juggling has been in an attempt to get him going. It hasn't worked thus MacT looks bad. You cannot win with 1 line producing especially with the Oilers talent. Of course Bowman kept 2 players the same. He had a team of all stars and some of the players have chemistry together. The oilers have 1 line with chemistry. Why keep the other plugs together when they accomplish nothing together? I fully understand the juggling.

you forgot one line that actually worked and mact got rid of it after 5games when they actually produced
torres-smyth-hemsky
that line produced and i rather have smyth be at centre instead of horcoff.
mact fuking sucks as a coach, its not his fault that brewer and staios havent played good? its not his fault smyth has sucked?
its the coaches job to motivate and to get the players going and if he cant do that, he should be fired. if mact cant make the team play like they are capable of doing, its obvious that mact should be fired because this team isn't listening. its time to move on and get a different coach, a change would help the organization.

If mact knew his job was on the line, and every player on the team knew it they would play much better imo. Laraque who has sucked the whole season learns he might be traded and he actually scores two goals in two games. why doesnt kevin lowe say mact needs to get a string of wins or we might have to rethink our strategy for the nex few seasons. kevin lowe is at much fault as mact is for this whole season.

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02-01-2004, 08:48 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
That's my biggest problem with Mac-T right there. I agree with you Walsher, he's been forced to deal with a team full of players having bad years(namely Smyth). But I put part of the blame on him. I voted to keep him only as a financial standpoint though. He is good at dealing with veterans, but he doesn't have the patience to deal with young players IMO. Does it make him a bad coach? No. Does it make him the wrong coach for this team? Yes.
Yet other teams (specifically Columbus) have contacted MacT and Lowe for how to handle their young players. If he is so bad with the young players why do these other teams contact him about handling their young talent?

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02-01-2004, 09:10 PM
  #18
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perhaps they are trying to figure out what errors the oilers made. anyhou this season has been a disaster and i hope it is over soon. i may not agree with you on some issues walsher but i am in agreement now with your assessment on smyth. if the right deal comes along it would not bother me too much to see him go.

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02-01-2004, 09:17 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Yet other teams (specifically Columbus) have contacted MacT and Lowe for how to handle their young players. If he is so bad with the young players why do these other teams contact him about handling their young talent?
Really? I find this very surprising. I personally think Mactavish is better off with a veteran team. I Mactavish had more veterans here, I doubt any of the young guys would play. This is by no means a shot at you Walsher, but I'm just curious. You do seem to know quite a bit about Mac-T, so...
How has he helped any of the young players develop? How in any way, can be cosidered to handle the youth well? I'm going to guess the contact from other teams is more of a rumour and if it wasn't that's besides the point anyways. In other words, don't repeat that kind of information, doesn't help me change my opinion.

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02-01-2004, 09:34 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Really? I find this very surprising. I personally think Mactavish is better off with a veteran team. I Mactavish had more veterans here, I doubt any of the young guys would play. This is by no means a shot at you Walsher, but I'm just curious. You do seem to know quite a bit about Mac-T, so...
How has he helped any of the young players develop? How in any way, can be cosidered to handle the youth well? I'm going to guess the contact from other teams is more of a rumour and if it wasn't that's besides the point anyways. In other words, don't repeat that kind of information, doesn't help me change my opinion.
The way he has handled Hemsky has been the envy of teams with young talent. The Oilers have worked him into the system slowly trying to maximize his ability to succeed. Poeple last year wanted Hemsky to play 1st line becuase of the talent he posseses. MacT Decided to slowly slide him in and out of different situations. He has been developing at a rate more managable for a young player. It was not a rumor. MacLean in CBJ called MacT in the offseason and asked for advise with Zherdev. If you watched the last CBJ - Oilers game you would have seen that. He was impressed with how MacT had handled Hemsky and was looking to see how he could treat Zherdev. This was from McLean's mouth not rumor. Now you tell me how he hasn't helped develop young players? You feel he hinders the development of younger players you tell me how? Is it by putting Ulanov with Semenov? Working Stoll in and out of key faceoffs getting him experience while not overusing him? Giving Bergeron some action then returning him to Toronto to work on the things he needs to improve to make him NHL ready? Getting Torres in situations that make him succeed but not giving him too much responsibility? You tell me how he is so bad with the younger players.

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02-01-2004, 09:38 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrush
you forgot one line that actually worked and mact got rid of it after 5games when they actually produced
torres-smyth-hemsky
that line produced and i rather have smyth be at centre instead of horcoff.
.
Torres-Smyth-Hemsky had 1 good game. The Rangers Game where Torres potted 2. Now was the the result of an amazing line or the good effort of a player that was succeeding no matter where he went? Would you prefer Hemsky-Smyth-Torres over Torres-York-Dvorak? I know for a fact I wouldn't. Torres batted a puck out of mid air and got 1 other. Hardly the effectiveness of an overpowering line - hence they are not together now. Smyth, Hemsky, Laraque, Horcoff, Izzy, Chimera, Pisani have all had below average seasons. Smyth and Hemsky have been really detrimental to the team with the exception of very few games. How do you create line with 2 of your top scorers being so unsuccesfull? What do you suggest coaches do?

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02-01-2004, 09:41 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
The way he has handled Hemsky has been the envy of teams with young talent. The Oilers have worked him into the system slowly trying to maximize his ability to succeed. Poeple last year wanted Hemsky to play 1st line becuase of the talent he posseses. MacT Decided to slowly slide him in and out of different situations. He has been developing at a rate more managable for a young player. It was not a rumor. MacLean in CBJ called MacT in the offseason and asked for advise with Zherdev. If you watched the last CBJ - Oilers game you would have seen that. He was impressed with how MacT had handled Hemsky and was looking to see how he could treat Zherdev. This was from McLean's mouth not rumor. Now you tell me how he hasn't helped develop young players? You feel he hinders the development of younger players you tell me how? Is it by putting Ulanov with Semenov? Working Stoll in and out of key faceoffs getting him experience while not overusing him? Giving Bergeron some action then returning him to Toronto to work on the things he needs to improve to make him NHL ready? Getting Torres in situations that make him succeed but not giving him too much responsibility? You tell me how he is so bad with the younger players.
I think when he benches a young player for an entire period because of one silly mistake. Or when he puts a player to the PB for an extended time because of one bad game. These are the type of things that hurt a young players confidence. You do agree with me on this point, but the Oilers did have enough talent to make the playoffs. IMO, he did not get the maximum results from them. Look at what LA is playing with right now, we have a way better team on paper than them right now, but still they manage to win. When Hemsky started playing well, Mac-T switched his linemates, at that point he didn't play as well. At that point he got even less ice time. Offensive players, ecspecially playmakers, need to learn chemistry with their teammates. Hemsky hasn't had the chance to do that, and when he hasn't succeeded in a defensive role, Mac-T has taken ice time away from him. What's a kid going to think? Confidence goes down, no chemistry, of course he's going to have a bad season....

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02-01-2004, 09:52 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
I think when he benches a young player for an entire period because of one silly mistake. Or when he puts a player to the PB for an extended time because of one bad game. These are the type of things that hurt a young players confidence. You do agree with me on this point, but the Oilers did have enough talent to make the playoffs. IMO, he did not get the maximum results from them. Look at what LA is playing with right now, we have a way better team on paper than them right now, but still they manage to win. When Hemsky started playing well, Mac-T switched his linemates, at that point he didn't play as well. At that point he got even less ice time. Offensive players, ecspecially playmakers, need to learn chemistry with their teammates. Hemsky hasn't had the chance to do that, and when he hasn't succeeded in a defensive role, Mac-T has taken ice time away from him. What's a kid going to think? Confidence goes down, no chemistry, of course he's going to have a bad season....
Hemsky has been the result of so many goals lately because he is soft on his wing clearing the puck that there is no way MacT could give him premium ice time. Rita has amazing talent too but their are other reasons why he isn't in the game. WHat youngsters have been in the PB this year? Ferguson, MAB, Horcoff, Pisani, Hemsky(that once), Chimera, Laraque, Stoll (early in the year)? Ferguson and MAB are 7-8 d-men they get PB time that is their role. Horcoff stunk early in the year that is obvious. Pisani got PB in lue of other players getting a chance. He hasn't exactly dominated securing his sport. Hemsky had an aweful stretch resulting in 1 PB game. Chimera hasn't done anything to warrant a constant spot in the lineup. And Stoll was in the PB because he hadn't had any extended action. Now that he has proven his worth he play almost every night. Aside from those guys I don't see players riding PB. As for benching players, sometimes that needs to happen. IMO more so with young players. If you just throw them back in the fire they are more likely to make thesame mistake. Sitting them show them how vulnerable their spot can be especially if they intend on making costly plays. Moreover, I haven't seen MacT sit guys for no reason nor has he sat them for extended periods without good reason. As for the LA comparison it doesn't really relate. Take Calgary as an example. Donovan, Lombardi, Gelinas, McAmmond etc all players having some of the best stretches in their hockey career. Look at the Oilers. Smyth, Oates, Hemsky in the past couple months, Brewer early in the year, Salo throughout, Laraque, Horcoff, Staios at times, all having some of the worst stretches in their career. How can this team survive with these players not earning their paychecks. This is the heart and soul of the team. If they struggle the team struggles and they did.

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02-01-2004, 09:59 PM
  #24
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What was MacT going to coach in Toronto?The Runners or St.Mike's Saints?Toronto already has the Olympic coach!Quinn has forgotten more about coaching then MacT will ever know.They were looking for a GM,but MacT can't keep a line together let alone a team.MacT would be better off in the East where his system would fit in with the rest of the trapping teams.

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02-01-2004, 10:20 PM
  #25
Walsher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperaddict
What was MacT going to coach in Toronto?The Runners or St.Mike's Saints?Toronto already has the Olympic coach!Quinn has forgotten more about coaching then MacT will ever know.They were looking for a GM,but MacT can't keep a line together let alone a team.MacT would be better off in the East where his system would fit in with the rest of the trapping teams.
They were looking for either a GM or a Coach - good effort though.

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