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How badly do you want to see MacT gone?

View Poll Results: Do you want MacT here to start the next season?
He must go, turfing him is priority #1. 26 35.62%
He should be gone. 11 15.07%
It's probably best if he's gone. 9 12.33%
I'd like to see him gone, but we can't afford to buy him out. 14 19.18%
Undecided, if he's fired or stays on I'm fine with it. 8 10.96%
I'd rather they kept him. 2 2.74%
He should definitely stay on. 1 1.37%
He is a great coach, firing him would be disastrous! 2 2.74%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-01-2004, 11:47 PM
  #26
Oi'll say!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Line juggling is meant to spur people on. Scotty Bowman juggled his lines more times in one period than MacT does in a week. Does that make Scotty Bowman a terrible coach? He is trying to get plugs like Smyth, Hemsky, Horcoff, and the rest going. When Mike York, Radek Dvorak, and Raffi Torres are the only guys that put in a consistent effort and at least produce something is wrong with the personell. Favortism? Like I just said tell me who he plays favorites with. IMO Smyth has gotten more ice time than he has deserved, if he is a "favorite" than I agree with you, otherwise that comment is ridiculous.

If a defensive zone faceoff in another season is the only evidence of bad coaching than I suggest you dig deeper.
A certain amount of line juggling is a good thing, when it's overdone it's a major disaster. Players don't need negative reinforcement after every shift because in the long run it destroys confidence.

Scotty Bowman was the master of line juggling because he still had lines in the grand scheme of things, he just had temporary changes. MacT has no lines at all, just a roster full of forwards who could be in the pb or on the 1st line any given night.

Aside from York/Dvo and the rpm line every other fwd spot has been changing except for Smyth's. MacT has dismantled lines after they've combined for 3 and 4 goals in one game for crying out loud, then he says noone has any chemistry?????WTH?

Comrie and York combined for four goals in one pre-season games last season, then they never played a single shift together until the playoffs. NOT ONE SHIFT! Then against Dallas when they were both recovering from broken bones he puts our two smallest forwards out there with Dvo (nothing against Radek, he's more than physical enough in his own right, but he's not any kind of protection) for the first 4 games while they did nothing! Is that a smart coach?

He left Ales Hemsky in the lineup in that series for all 6 games and he only had one good shift the whole time! He was -6 without even an assist! That's not just bad coaching, it's blatant stupidity.

This season he may have been without a #1 center, I've cut him slack all year 'til now. This team however should have been a lot better imo, and even if the Oil weren't going to be great, there were only a few players who were at their usual standard and maybe one overachiever (Raffi). A good coach gets better mileage than that out of his players. There's a reason when a whole team underachieves.

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Old
02-02-2004, 02:01 AM
  #27
Walsher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
A certain amount of line juggling is a good thing, when it's overdone it's a major disaster. Players don't need negative reinforcement after every shift because in the long run it destroys confidence.

Scotty Bowman was the master of line juggling because he still had lines in the grand scheme of things, he just had temporary changes. MacT has no lines at all, just a roster full of forwards who could be in the pb or on the 1st line any given night.

Aside from York/Dvo and the rpm line every other fwd spot has been changing except for Smyth's. MacT has dismantled lines after they've combined for 3 and 4 goals in one game for crying out loud, then he says noone has any chemistry?????WTH?

Comrie and York combined for four goals in one pre-season games last season, then they never played a single shift together until the playoffs. NOT ONE SHIFT! Then against Dallas when they were both recovering from broken bones he puts our two smallest forwards out there with Dvo (nothing against Radek, he's more than physical enough in his own right, but he's not any kind of protection) for the first 4 games while they did nothing! Is that a smart coach?

He left Ales Hemsky in the lineup in that series for all 6 games and he only had one good shift the whole time! He was -6 without even an assist! That's not just bad coaching, it's blatant stupidity.

This season he may have been without a #1 center, I've cut him slack all year 'til now. This team however should have been a lot better imo, and even if the Oil weren't going to be great, there were only a few players who were at their usual standard and maybe one overachiever (Raffi). A good coach gets better mileage than that out of his players. There's a reason when a whole team underachieves.
So you're saying other than the Torres-York-Dvo line, The RPM line, and Smyth all the lines have changed? So 2 out of 4 lines are the same and 1/3 of the other line is the same. To further that point - Laraque, Horcoff, Stoll, Chimera are almost always 4th line without injuries, and Hemsky Smyth Oates are almost always together. That makes 4 lines that are a large percentage of the time together. Yes he mixes line during the games - no they don't change for good. He is doing exactly what Bowman does. He changes parts of lines trying to spark chemistry and drive. The fact that none of the players have that is something that is beyond the coach.

As for York and Comrie playing together - that was a one time deal - maybe you should note that both are centermen. 2 centermen on the same line doesn't normally work seeing as how their is only 1 faceoff and room for 1 person to patrol the center ice. Maybe Dvorak-Torres-Isbister would make a good line. They are all wingers but using your logic that will work perfectly.

Ales Hemsky is a major part of this team. York, Comrie, Smyth were also useless in that series - does that mean they should sit in the PB with Hemsky in favor of Sarno, Rita, Salmaleinen etc. No. Lets face it, other than Dvo, Laraque, Horcoff, and a few others that series was pretty ugly from the Oilers standpoint.

This team should be a lot better than they should be your right. Look at it like I do for just a second. All 4 centermen from last year are out of the lineup (Marchant, Reasoner, York, Comrie) 3 of which have been out the majority of the year. 2 all year. The starting goaltender had the yips until January, The leading money getter as a skater has been pathetic pretty near all year, they have no offensive defensmen, no consistent scorer other than York and Torres, underachieving Laraque, Horcoff, Isbister, Pisani, Chimera, Oates, etc. Injury problems to players that have been the most effective (Reasoner, York, Isbister, Brewer, Smith) and too much youth filling major positions. Stoll, Hemsky, Bergeron, Semenov, Conklin are not experienced and have had to eat lots of ice time. The leading goal scorer is on pace for about 25 goals! I am sorry but I don't see how the coach is the cause of any of these problems. Personnell and player performance is IMO 100% to blame. Mike Babcock took his team to the Stanley Cup Finals last year - this year his players are underachieving, he lost key players and the players really are struggling. I guess he is a crappy coach too. MacTavish is a quality coach with a ragtag team at this point. Their desire is lacking, their heart is absent and their talent is clearly nonexistent.

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Old
02-02-2004, 02:07 AM
  #28
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I am going to go back to each of MacT's decision to see how they have worked out:
1) Get Billy Moore as assistant?
2) Get Smith as Captain?
3) Played Salo all the ways although he has been in deeply funk
4) How Clearly turned out?
5) How Comrie turned out?
6) How Semenov turns out?
7) How Brewer turns out?
8) How Horcoff turns out?
9) How Smyth turns out?
10) How Hemsky's turns out?
Only a few players who play like MacT is getting better.
I remember that at the beginning of the year MacT said the the amount of icetime depending how a player's performance: This turns out not true as he said.
I mean a coach says one thing and does the other.. how players can have respect to him? Patience is the most importance for the coach and MacT lacks this badly (He may have enough patience to keep Salo in the net after being out played 3 goals in 7 shots... or something like that..or he does not know what to do....).
I summary, MacT should resign if he thinks he love his Oilers.
Too many acts that show MacT's impotence for being Oilers' coach. Can you name a few?

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Old
02-02-2004, 02:15 AM
  #29
Walsher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xauxi
I am going to go back to each of MacT's decision to see how they have worked out:
1) Get Billy Moore as assistant?
2) Get Smith as Captain?
3) Played Salo all the ways although he has been in deeply funk
4) How Clearly turned out?
5) How Comrie turned out?
6) How Semenov turns out?
7) How Brewer turns out?
8) How Horcoff turns out?
9) How Smyth turns out?
10) How Hemsky's turns out?
Only a few players who play like MacT is getting better.
I remember that at the beginning of the year MacT said the the amount of icetime depending how a player's performance: This turns out not true as he said.
I mean a coach says one thing and does the other.. how players can have respect to him? Patience is the most importance for the coach and MacT lacks this badly (He may have enough patience to keep Salo in the net after being out played 3 goals in 7 shots... or something like that..or he does not know what to do....).
I summary, MacT should resign if he thinks he love his Oilers.
Too many acts that show MacT's impotence for being Oilers' coach. Can you name a few?
Reading your post was painful - understanding some of it a real chore. Anyway, the only impotence in the oilers is the players on the ice. I'm sorry but when the leading scorer on a team is on pace for 25 goals that is just not good personnell. All the coaching in the world couldn't create talent or skill. It just won't. MacT is fighting a losing battle.

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Old
02-02-2004, 02:51 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
So you're saying other than the Torres-York-Dvo line, The RPM line, and Smyth all the lines have changed? So 2 out of 4 lines are the same and 1/3 of the other line is the same. To further that point - Laraque, Horcoff, Stoll, Chimera are almost always 4th line without injuries, and Hemsky Smyth Oates are almost always together. That makes 4 lines that are a large percentage of the time together. Yes he mixes line during the games - no they don't change for good. He is doing exactly what Bowman does. He changes parts of lines trying to spark chemistry and drive. The fact that none of the players have that is something that is beyond the coach.
No, Torres was only with Y/D about 1/2 of the time, Izzy spends time on the rw with Smyth and Oates, and MacT has no idea what chemistry is because like I said b4 he takes apart lines that have scored bucketfulls of goals.

Quote:
As for York and Comrie playing together - that was a one time deal - maybe you should note that both are centermen. 2 centermen on the same line doesn't normally work seeing as how their is only 1 faceoff and room for 1 person to patrol the center ice. Maybe Dvorak-Torres-Isbister would make a good line. They are all wingers but using your logic that will work perfectly.
You're wrong as usual. York came here as a winger who played center in college, putting him out with Comrie and Dvo would have made perfect sense during the regular season seeing as how they did so well in their one game together, but putting a whole new line together for the playoffs like that was utterly stupid. I can't believe that with all the line juggling that he does he sticks with something so obviously wrong 'til the team's driven into the groung.

Quote:
Ales Hemsky is a major part of this team. York, Comrie, Smyth were also useless in that series - does that mean they should sit in the PB with Hemsky in favor of Sarno, Rita, Salmaleinen etc. No. Lets face it, other than Dvo, Laraque, Horcoff, and a few others that series was pretty ugly from the Oilers standpoint.
Ales is a major part of the future and contributes very well during certain stretches. Against Hatcher and co wasn't one of them. The team was unable to carry the puck in or win control, and Ales was being dummied everywhere. Chimera sat until Dvo got injured and then came in and was one of our best players. Couldn't MacT see his own team getting beaten up? Didn't he notice how our lack of size and strength was killing us? It's a good thing Craig didn't have a couple of really wimpy Swedes to throw into the lineup or it would have been 4 straight, 20-0 for Dal.

Quote:
This team should be a lot better than they should be your right. Look at it like I do for just a second. All 4 centermen from last year are out of the lineup (Marchant, Reasoner, York, Comrie) 3 of which have been out the majority of the year. 2 all year. The starting goaltender had the yips until January, The leading money getter as a skater has been pathetic pretty near all year, they have no offensive defensmen, no consistent scorer other than York and Torres, underachieving Laraque, Horcoff, Isbister, Pisani, Chimera, Oates, etc. Injury problems to players that have been the most effective (Reasoner, York, Isbister, Brewer, Smith) and too much youth filling major positions. Stoll, Hemsky, Bergeron, Semenov, Conklin are not experienced and have had to eat lots of ice time. The leading goal scorer is on pace for about 25 goals! I am sorry but I don't see how the coach is the cause of any of these problems. Personnell and player performance is IMO 100% to blame. Mike Babcock took his team to the Stanley Cup Finals last year - this year his players are underachieving, he lost key players and the players really are struggling. I guess he is a crappy coach too. MacTavish is a quality coach with a ragtag team at this point. Their desire is lacking, their heart is absent and their talent is clearly nonexistent.
You don't have to tell me this team is weak down the middle, I'm one of the few people here who still wants us to draft a center with our first pick. However York wasn't a centerman here all of last year like you keep saying. Horcoff was at center last year and again this year. It's not like we did so great when Reasoner and York were healthy either.

Realistically I just can't stand some of the comments MacT makes in public (going back to the Carter trade, York's injury last year, the Rita situation), his ridiculous fixation with lines that don't score, his lack of faith in lines/players that do score, his determination to keep the same useless guys on the pp, and his use of certain lines at the wrong times in the game.

There are some good coaches out there and this team will benefit hugely from a change.

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Old
02-02-2004, 02:58 AM
  #31
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Just to avoid an annoying pissing contest I am going to have to agree to disagree. You think MacT is the problem. I think the players underperformance is the problem. There is nothing you can tell me to make me believe MacT sucks, and their is nothing I can say to prove to you he doesn't. I am going to leave it at that. What we can both agree on is that this team has serious issues and as fans I hope they do something - anything as long as it helps because right now I am fed up and I think you are too.

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Old
02-02-2004, 03:27 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Just to avoid an annoying pissing contest I am going to have to agree to disagree. You think MacT is the problem. I think the players underperformance is the problem. There is nothing you can tell me to make me believe MacT sucks, and their is nothing I can say to prove to you he doesn't. I am going to leave it at that. What we can both agree on is that this team has serious issues and as fans I hope they do something - anything as long as it helps because right now I am fed up and I think you are too.
That sounds fair.

We have a lot of d-men and lw's now, maybe Lowe will trim down the roster and get us some help at Center.

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Old
02-02-2004, 03:35 AM
  #33
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Although he does not appear to be a "great coach" now, he is one really smart hockey man.
Imo - he needed a couple more years as an assistant but that was not an option when Slats left.

If he was fired now, it would be disasterous for the team in a number of ways.
1 - There isn't an available coach who can get anymore out of this team as it is now.
2 - He would be snapped up by another team and would come back to bite us.
3 - The inmates would know they were running the asylum.

He's made some mistakes. Who hasn't. But he is not the reason this team is underachieving.

Patience is a virtue.

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Old
02-02-2004, 05:18 PM
  #34
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I chose "like to see him gone but can't afford it" because it was the closest to "I'd like to replace him with a better coach but none I like are available". I sometimes like MacT as a coach but I know there are better ones so I'll never be totally happy with him.

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