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Bondra trade offer

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Old
02-01-2004, 07:10 PM
  #1
maruk14
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Bondra trade offer

I just went through an exercise on the Nucks board trying to figure out what Bondra would fetch you guys if he is, in fact, traded. The best comparison I came up with was what Amonte brought Phoenix at last years deadline. Guillaume Lefebvre (checking center), and a 2nd and 3rd. With that in mind, would this deal equal fair value to Caps fans.

Bondra and a 3rd (If the Nucks don't pick up his option)

Koltsov and the rights to Umberger

Thoughts?

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02-01-2004, 07:50 PM
  #2
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umberger's description as a, "not overly physical...power forward" sort of got my attention as well as the mention of his lack of motivation and interest in playing defense. he remains unsigned yes?

koltsov sounds like a bit of a head case too. but i see that he is signed.
sounds like a trade where the Capitals could crap out pretty easily. doesn't it?

I dont think the Capitals are willing to trade the franchises all time leading scorer and potential hall of famer for two prospects that may never workout and are not remotely ready for the NHL.

Why do you suggest that trade?

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Old
02-01-2004, 11:24 PM
  #3
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
umberger's description as a, "not overly physical...power forward" sort of got my attention as well as the mention of his lack of motivation and interest in playing defense. he remains unsigned yes?

koltsov sounds like a bit of a head case too. but i see that he is signed.
sounds like a trade where the Capitals could crap out pretty easily. doesn't it?

I dont think the Capitals are willing to trade the franchises all time leading scorer and potential hall of famer for two prospects that may never workout and are not remotely ready for the NHL.

Why do you suggest that trade?
Given the other supposed offer from Ottawa(Vermette as the centerpiece), I don't see how this is that bad of a deal. Umberger and Koltsov are talented forwards and have good NHL potential. Koltsov has played well for the Manitoba Moose of the AHL in his first season in North America. He has the talent, desire and motivation to be an NHL players. Questions about his attitude were overblown by the media.

As for Umberger, his demands aren't high, he just wants to be paid fairly. Burke is expecting him to take a low offer, and won't budge from that. In any case, if not signed Umberger would get whatever team holds his rights a compensatory 2nd round pick(46th overall) in this years' draft.

So basically the deal is Bondra and a 3rd for Koltsov and at the least a mid 2nd rounder, at best the Caps get a former 1st round pick. Personally, I don't know if I'd do this deal from a Canucks' perspective.

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Old
02-02-2004, 12:17 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd

Why do you suggest that trade?
For one, with Arvedson going down, now more than ever, we need a winger to play with the Sedins. Bondra is a great fit for the Canucks, and the fact that he can kill penalties as well makes him a very valuable addition to a team making a run at the Cup. I think he would flourish in Vancouver.

From Washington's perspective, they get two solid young players for a soon to be 37 year old winger. Both Koltsov and Umberger have a bright future in front of them. Koltsov's upside is easily as a top 4 defenseman, and Umberger has top 6 forward potential. It's not like these are two lesser known prospects. These guys are known prospects that project to be solid NHL'ers. From a Canuck point of view a lot of fans, PG included, may not make this deal. I think this is a risk that is worth taking.

The Caps are not likely to contend for 2 to 3 more seasons, realistically. At that point Bondra is nearing 40 and retired or seriously thinking about it. This gives him a chance to compete for a Cup instead of languishing through a rebuilding phase that will dry up the rest of his career. If he doesn't want to leave Washington, fine, but if he does the team should move him for some more pieces to the rebuilding puzzle.

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02-02-2004, 12:43 AM
  #5
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i think the question in play for rebuilding teams is what will happen with the salary cap? this may be the last year of the NHL. it may be the last year for 4 to 8 teams. it may not be.

what we do know is in the NFL their salary cap puts a lot of qualify mid level players on the market to change teams.

The hard players to get will be the players that are hard to get now. Developed offensive stars and young players that can produce offensively for low cost, top level defensemen and a playoff caliber goalie.

The easy players to get will be mid range body of the team, chemistry players. players to fill out a 2nd line or lead a 3rd line or #3/#4 defensemen. These players will be plentiful. The trick will be finding players that best fit a teams needs and locker room chemistry.

Looking at the Caps they have the hard to find parts with Lang, Bondra, Gonchar, Witt and Kolzig. What they need are a #3 and a #4 defenseman. They will need a character forward if they can't find a contribution from pettinger, gordon or sutherby. Anything that Semin is able to add to the top 2 lines is gravy.

I think that is what the Caps are looking at.

Move all those top players and the players available because of cap movement wont provide what was lost in the trades nor will the returns in those trades.

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Old
02-02-2004, 06:09 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maruk14
For one, with Arvedson going down, now more than ever, we need a winger to play with the Sedins. Bondra is a great fit for the Canucks, and the fact that he can kill penalties as well makes him a very valuable addition to a team making a run at the Cup. I think he would flourish in Vancouver.

From Washington's perspective, they get two solid young players for a soon to be 37 year old winger. Both Koltsov and Umberger have a bright future in front of them. Koltsov's upside is easily as a top 4 defenseman, and Umberger has top 6 forward potential. It's not like these are two lesser known prospects. These guys are known prospects that project to be solid NHL'ers. From a Canuck point of view a lot of fans, PG included, may not make this deal. I think this is a risk that is worth taking.

The Caps are not likely to contend for 2 to 3 more seasons, realistically. At that point Bondra is nearing 40 and retired or seriously thinking about it. This gives him a chance to compete for a Cup instead of languishing through a rebuilding phase that will dry up the rest of his career. If he doesn't want to leave Washington, fine, but if he does the team should move him for some more pieces to the rebuilding puzzle.
I'm sorry, but Umberger and Koltsov are not going to get us a Cup any quicker than if we held on to Bondra and let him retire. Both of those guys, especially with regards to Umberger, are mentioned in every single "proposal" I've seen involving a fan from the Canucks' side. That says something. Either he's not likely to resign and thus they need to trade him to get at least something out of it, or more likely, Canucks fans see how passive, disinterested he is. I see him as a wasted potential, with no real upside. Sure, maybe he's gotten unfairly labeled, but I don't see many posters defending him, other than those who are trying to justify his trade value to potential suitors.

Koltsov is another puck-moving defenseman. I wouldn't mind acquiring him simply because our depth is so thin, but I'm not willing to give up much. As pathetic as our defense is, I'm not averse to picking up pretty much any warm body.

With regards to your trade offer, Bondra is about to turn 37... this is true. However, he's a very "young" 37. He may have lost a gear, but it's a gear that 90% of the players in the NHL don't have to begin with. He still has a booming shot from the PP point, and he still works his ass off every shift... as well as keeping in shape in the offseason. Regardless, I realize that Bondra won't bring that much in return. Personally, I'd rather take Sopel and a 3rd for Bondra. I think that addresses our needs much more than some enigmatic potential talent like Umberger.

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02-02-2004, 12:55 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleHunter
I'm sorry, but Umberger and Koltsov are not going to get us a Cup any quicker than if we held on to Bondra and let him retire. Both of those guys, especially with regards to Umberger, are mentioned in every single "proposal" I've seen involving a fan from the Canucks' side. That says something. Either he's not likely to resign and thus they need to trade him to get at least something out of it, or more likely, Canucks fans see how passive, disinterested he is. I see him as a wasted potential, with no real upside. Sure, maybe he's gotten unfairly labeled, but I don't see many posters defending him, other than those who are trying to justify his trade value to potential suitors.

Koltsov is another puck-moving defenseman. I wouldn't mind acquiring him simply because our depth is so thin, but I'm not willing to give up much. As pathetic as our defense is, I'm not averse to picking up pretty much any warm body.

With regards to your trade offer, Bondra is about to turn 37... this is true. However, he's a very "young" 37. He may have lost a gear, but it's a gear that 90% of the players in the NHL don't have to begin with. He still has a booming shot from the PP point, and he still works his ass off every shift... as well as keeping in shape in the offseason. Regardless, I realize that Bondra won't bring that much in return. Personally, I'd rather take Sopel and a 3rd for Bondra. I think that addresses our needs much more than some enigmatic potential talent like Umberger.
For the millionth time on the board Umberger is worth (at least) the equivalent of a mid second round pick in the next draft. There is compensation for not signing first round picks.

You will not get a player close to Sopel in return for Bondra. That is a move that would not make sense for any contender, not just the Canucks.

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Old
02-02-2004, 01:36 PM
  #8
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It isn't certain if GMGM will trade Bondra. He is well-liked with the fans so I believe a contending team that wants to trade for him will have to ante up something probably more than his preceived value.

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Old
02-02-2004, 03:13 PM
  #9
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If GMGM was offered Koltsov and Umberger for Bondra and didn't take it, i'd be pissed. They're both awesome prospects, and Umberger was offered pretty crappy money by Burke. He was a 1st round draft pick, and is progressing very well, and they offered him less money than was offered Kesler, who is not as far along in his development and not scoring as much. Koltsov loves to throw his weight around and is very solid defensively. With Eminger being a little bit more offensive minded, Koltsov is the perfect prospect to compliment his style.

Take it and run George!

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