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01-31-2004, 01:55 PM
  #1
Laches
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Matteau speaks

"Because they're being coached."
-- retired Florida Panther Stephane Matteau on why the Panthers appear to have improved their play under Rick Dudley. It's a stinging comment regarding former coach Mike Keenan whom Matteau now says tried to force him into retirement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...jim&id=1723014



This is why I don't agree with the Keenan nostalgists on Iron Mike being brought back. This team needs a coach who can actually coach, not someone who will just come in and yell at them.

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01-31-2004, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laches
"Because they're being coached."
-- retired Florida Panther Stephane Matteau on why the Panthers appear to have improved their play under Rick Dudley. It's a stinging comment regarding former coach Mike Keenan whom Matteau now says tried to force him into retirement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...jim&id=1723014



This is why I don't agree with the Keenan nostalgists on Iron Mike being brought back. This team needs a coach who can actually coach, not someone who will just come in and yell at them.

On the flip Keenan isn't afraid to tell players when it's time to hang them up.

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01-31-2004, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laches
This is why I don't agree with the Keenan nostalgists on Iron Mike being brought back. This team needs a coach who can actually coach, not someone who will just come in and yell at them.
Keenan is a coaching extension of their player philosophy. He is the guy you bring in when you're close to winning it all, just as the Blueshirts did in '94. His shelf life is too short for anything else.

But since the Rangers are nowhere near that close, why Keenan? He's a hardass, fine. He's not the only hardass coach in hockey. If you believe in rebuilding you should be looking for a coach with a proven track record of developing youth, not someone who specializes in getting vets to play or shipping them out.

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01-31-2004, 05:30 PM
  #4
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eff that man. these guys are pros and some of the best in the world. they NEED to be disciplined. no doubt. keenan won them a cup with his antics. ever wonder the correlation?! he is exactly what the damn team needs. players hate him? they will play harder to get off the team. k at least they win.

KEENAN NOW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
Keenan is a coaching extension of their player philosophy. He is the guy you bring in when you're close to winning it all, just as the Blueshirts did in '94. His shelf life is too short for anything else.

But since the Rangers are nowhere near that close, why Keenan? He's a hardass, fine. He's not the only hardass coach in hockey. If you believe in rebuilding you should be looking for a coach with a proven track record of developing youth, not someone who specializes in getting vets to play or shipping them out.

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01-31-2004, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by moosemessier
eff that man. these guys are pros and some of the best in the world. they NEED to be disciplined.
This where we disagree. IMO there is only one player on this team who might be called "one of the best in the world." Jagr. Other than him there are a bunch of guys whose best days are well behind him - and even Jagr's best days are behind him.

The "talent" on this team used to be very talented, but has lost speed (Leetch), durability (start a list), endurance (Messier), hand quickness (Nedved), and many other of the traits that used to make them "some of the best in the world." With the erosion of the talent, it's pretty apparent this team isn't going anywhere even with someone to yell at them and threaten them.

Consider, too, the way the team is run. Many of these players aren't benched by Sather. They know the general manger doesn't believe in benchings, and they know that their own contracts make them tough to move. Why, exactly, should they fear Mike Keenan? Keenan has only the hammer that Sather allows him to use, and these players should feel pretty confident about the size and weight of that hammer, not to mention the liklihood of its use while Glen Sather is GM.

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01-31-2004, 08:45 PM
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keen can get you a cup if you have the foundation there {Rangers in 94} but this team is so far from that it would be a pointless move.

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01-31-2004, 11:19 PM
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I dunno dedalus...

this team can play sounds hockey, but just doesn't do it consistenly. A little bit of consistency puts this team in the top eight. Get that and be coached, it could very well be a bit better. I do believe that under Keenan, players will work harder. It's possible Sather's lost his team - heck, who would want to play for that buffoon? And is anybody scared about losing a job or sitting on a bench? Heck no. I don't think Keenan's the best coach out there, and perhaps not even the best for this group, but I do believe the Rangers are a solid playoff contender under him at the very least.

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01-31-2004, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
this team can play sounds hockey, but just doesn't do it consistenly. A little bit of consistency puts this team in the top eight .... I do believe the Rangers are a solid playoff contender under him at the very least.
This collective is fundamentally flawed, IMO. Could a better coach get them into one of the bottom two seeds? Yeah, probably, but that's more testament to the general mediocrity of the league rather than the quality of the Ranger Collective. If they made it under a Keenan they would only lose to a genuine team that's put together with a coherent philosophy and a unified plan.

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02-01-2004, 12:33 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laches
This is why I don't agree with the Keenan nostalgists on Iron Mike being brought back. This team needs a coach who can actually coach, not someone who will just come in and yell at them.
i completely agree...while the rangers DO need someone to come in and start cracking skulls, hold players accountable and force them to work harder....they are so awful fundamentally that they also need to be taught how to play

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02-01-2004, 04:08 AM
  #10
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If you believe in rebuilding you should be looking for a coach with a proven track record of developing youth, not someone who specializes in getting vets to play or shipping them out.
Kennan doesnt just specialize in gettin the most out of vets, he also has a track record of helping develop the young players he likes...and of course alienate or ruin the ones he doesnt like. For every Thornton or Pronger or Jokinen, there is an Amonte or Huselius.

But lets be honest here, he's not as bad as Sather has proven himself to be...

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02-01-2004, 12:41 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzlax99
But lets be honest here, he's not as bad as Sather has proven himself to be...
That can be said of just about any coach or assistant coach in the NHL and many, many coaches in the junior and college ranks. Being better than Sather can't be our only criteria for hiring a coach.

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02-01-2004, 01:10 PM
  #12
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I hear ya, dedalus...

but I also believe that most everybody on this team would fare a good deal better on other teams. One has to wonder why Jags was a point-per-game elsewhere, and hasn't done much here. Ditto for Kovalev. Heck, Malakhov was a serviceable defenseman prior to joining the Rangers; Holik a force against top lines. I think this group should be able to play much better...perhaps a real coach would practice special teams more often instead of having optional practices and watching video....right there's the difference in sooo many games.

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02-01-2004, 03:40 PM
  #13
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All that's fine, Fletch, and I agree, but even with a good coach this team isn't beating Ottawa or New Jersey, and I have grave doubts about its ability to beat Philly in seven. Given how old this team is and the fact that it's entirely built to win NOW, that fact that it can't hope to compete with the top two teams in its conference is an indictment. A coach - like Keenan - who is hired to help THIS team win is wasting his own and the organization's time.

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Old
02-02-2004, 03:54 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
All that's fine, Fletch, and I agree, but even with a good coach this team isn't beating Ottawa or New Jersey, and I have grave doubts about its ability to beat Philly in seven. Given how old this team is and the fact that it's entirely built to win NOW, that fact that it can't hope to compete with the top two teams in its conference is an indictment. A coach - like Keenan - who is hired to help THIS team win is wasting his own and the organization's time.
*Too many "lazy" penalties
*Poor special teams
*Can't give 100 % for a whole game
*Almost every player does not play up to expectations
*Optional practices
*No punishment for poor play


This is a poorly disciplined team. Accountability is a foreign word. The problems starts and ends with these coaches that have plagued us for years.

This team does have talent and they are definately not an 11th place team. Jagr, Lindros, Nedved, Kovalev, Rucinsky and Holik are all around the same age as the core players on the Flyers (Roenick, Premeau, Recci, Kapanen, Therien, Weinrich, LeClair, Amonte, Desjardin etc..) Furthermore the talent level is very similiar. The difference is Hichcoock does a much better job with the things that are denoted by asterisks above.
If those Flyer players were coached under the current Ranger management then they would be in 11th place also.

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02-02-2004, 04:27 PM
  #15
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I have to agree with Dedalus on this one.

I think if the rangers had the skills to beat the top teams it might be an interesting move because you could deal with the inevitable fallout. the risk isnt worth just sneaking into the playoffs though. to me it's another quick fix so that sather and company can say "See we made the playoffs, everything is all better now."

this team has the talent to sneak into the playoffs but the makeup isnt right. the team still doesnt have a legit scoring threat from the left side, it lacks defense and doesnt have a clear number one goalie right now. that's a bit too many holes for keenan to come in and fix or at least improve enough to be worth the trouble.

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Old
02-02-2004, 09:21 PM
  #16
Fitzlax99
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Quote:
Being better than Sather can't be our only criteria for hiring a coach.
Yeah, it was a joke. I dont want Keenan either, I just think that its funny that one of the most maligned hockey personalities in the game would still be a step up. Sad.

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