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Old
02-03-2004, 11:06 PM
  #51
Matts
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Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
And what do you expect to happen when you are in the situation that Nashville, or Minnesota or Calgary or or or or or.

If you don't like the personnel we have...blame your GM.
If you don't like what is done with that personnel...blame your coach.

I am personally starting to blame both. Excuses dawgbone...you offer excuses...

I call bullshevik. Marchant this, Comrie that, Reasoner this, no enough money that, when is it going to be accountability.

When is it going to be signing the Nieuwendyk instead of the Oates? When is it going to be putting two centers on the ice in the last minute? When is it playing the goalie with the flu when the back up is fresh? When is it making the one small trade to motivate the team? When is it going to be accountability instead of the hard luck poor me bullshyt excuses?

Sure is easy to excuse away. But having you around at least gives the opposing point of view. Sadly few agree with you.

I must say that I am impressed with all the precedent you cited. I don't think there's a chance in **** that Joe N would've signed here but all the other things you pointed out could've happned in a different manner to be sure

As for Rita vs Salmo, well how come here has mentioned the real reason Rita didn't make the team out of camp?

It was Raffi Torres.

The guy was banged up during camp but Lowe and Co were having their Tyson Nash dreams about Torres and he was given the one way contract which meant he was here and Jani wouldn't be. That move looks great now but it's not like Rita sucked at camp, either.

As for Salmo, drafted in the same year as Jani but stuck around Finland for the extra year so this is just his second year in the A and he's starting to exert some O potential and I think they kept him down there hoping he continues to hone those skills. Meanwhile Jani is in his last year of being waiver exempt so it's time to get a look at him. That being said that's logic and bringing him up to sit makes no sense.

As for anyone expecting him to be a savior, I don't. But I do think that given good linemates and top six min he's gonna score 20 goals. He has a good heavy shot and can make power moves in tight. His only deal is that he doesn't always finish his checks and he isn't good defensively but he's not as bad as Chimera either who has to be one of the worse Oilers in his own end in recent memory.

I've seen Jani close to 20 games since he's been in the A here and I'd put my observations about his game up against anyone's. Thatmight be the way he plays in the A but I've seen guys like Horc and Stoll down here too and they play the same way, ie same tendancies.


Last edited by Matts: 02-03-2004 at 11:16 PM. Reason: to edit content
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02-03-2004, 11:55 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
As for Rita vs Salmo, well how come no one here has mentioned the real reason Rita didn't make the team out of camp?

It was Raffi Torres.
You make an excellent point, and I would suggest Rita's chances have spiralled downward since his draft day. THE best shot any winger had to make this team was the fall of 2000 when Michel Riesen, Dan Lacouture and Dan Cleary ALL made the club because there was sweet fa in terms of depth.

Since then, they nailed a first round pick (Hemsky), and Lowe has stockpiled wingers like you can play 5 at a time (at the expense of c, d and g). Seriously, the Oilers have 5 lines worth of wingers now without Rita (Smyth, Hemsky, Torres, Dvorak, Isbister, Moreau, Pisani, Chimera, Laraque, Salmelainen), and can't rub two centers together with 1:10 on the clock and up a goal.

Rita's timing is flat out horrible. He's been passed like a house on the side of the road by better, younger players.

Doesn't mean he's a bad player, just that he's not the best option.

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02-04-2004, 12:21 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Doesn't mean he's a bad player, just that he's not the best option.
Until we see him for 20 straight games, we won't know how good an option he is. Torres' numbers didn't give any indication that he was going to do what he has done.

It just would be nice to know what we have. And if we have nothing, then it is Lowe's fault for not seeing it sooner and not trading him away for some value before it was too late.

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02-04-2004, 12:22 AM
  #54
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Play him. He deserves a shot more than Pisani or Sarno or Bishai or whoever else ever did. I don't think desire has anything to do with it. Desire alone doesn't get you into a lineup. And besides, I think he has plenty.

Like Matts and Lowetide have said, where would he play? Was he supposed to beat out Smyth, Torres, Moreau, or Isbister - especially with a 2-way contract? I don't think it mattered how well he did in camp, he wasn't going to make it. And not because he wasn't good enough. It just bothers me that he's not even getting a look.

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02-04-2004, 12:44 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I doubt it. I think we are stuck with PisTavish, HorcTavish, OaTavish, MorTavish, and if he plays the way he is supposed to ChimTavish will draw into the line up.

There is no room for Rita.
HAHAHAHAHA

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02-04-2004, 12:55 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Until we see him for 20 straight games, we won't know how good an option he is. Torres' numbers didn't give any indication that he was going to do what he has done.
That's a very interesting point.. I remember a number of posters being very down on Torres during the pre-season and commenting that he had hands worse than Moreau. Many were disappointed that he was given a one-way contract and felt he would struggle all season long. Look where he is now! I'm another supporter of the "Play Jani Rita Club". How discouraging must it be for a young guy to keep getting shot down year in and out at training camp. I agree that it should motivate him to play harder but at what point does it go from motivation to down right depression?

I still think we could have a great player in Rita.. he has a bullet of a shot and that is definitely something we could use out on the powerplay. Why not at least drop one of Pisani, Moreau (he could use a game off) or even Smyth for a game and see what the kid can do? Maybe he'll give us a game like Raffi Torres' first one way back in October against San Jose! I can't picture anything more depressing than getting called up for "your last shot" and then sitting in the press-box the whole time watching Mike Bishai pass you on the depth chart (granted he is a centerman and is playing pretty well!).

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02-04-2004, 05:05 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
You make an excellent point, and I would suggest Rita's chances have spiralled downward since his draft day.
...

Since then, they nailed a first round pick (Hemsky), and Lowe has stockpiled wingers like you can play 5 at a time (at the expense of c, d and g). Seriously, the Oilers have 5 lines worth of wingers now without Rita (Smyth, Hemsky, Torres, Dvorak, Isbister, Moreau, Pisani, Chimera, Laraque, Salmelainen), and can't rub two centers together with 1:10 on the clock and up a goal.

Rita's timing is flat out horrible. He's been passed like a house on the side of the road by better, younger players.
In fact, even if I hadn't been a fan of Rita since he was just a junior player in the Jokerit system, I'd think that the situation him and the Oilers are in right now is pretty darn interesting. I have to point out that of the wingers you mentioned, Hemsky is the only one who's more than just a couple of months younger than Rita, so age is not really the issue here.

His timing couldn't have been worse when he made the senior team of Jokerit as a teenager, either. The organization had a lot of promising youth in the lineup in the beginning of the 99-00 season and the buzzword of the fall was the "own boys project". The shortsightedness and the impatience of the management made that project a bitter failure. Before the end of the season, if there was any youth left in the lineup, it was in the fourth line.

Rita remained in Finland for one more year. He scored those seven goals in the WJC and had a very good stint in SM-liiga right after that, too, but he never got the icetime and responsibility he would've needed at that point. If he never breaks out, it's easy to find a scapegoat: those two years (1999-2001) were absolutely crucial for his development as a hockey player and he, as the arguably top forward prospect of the organization since the days of Teemu Selšnne, was handled so badly that it makes the Oilers' treatment of him look like a constant honeymoon.

His rookie season in the AHL seemed prove all the critics wrong, but after his failure of making the team last year and again this year, it seems to be the same thing all over again. He hasn't been able to force his way into the lineup, but on the other hand it would be hard to argue that he's been given every possible chance of making the team, more or less like a couple of years earlier he wasn't able to force his way into a bigger role in Jokerit but wasn't really given any chance of doing it, either.

Add the contract issue (his entry level contract is up after the year), and you have the ingredients of a nice drama. ("What will he do next? Will he return to his native Finland? Will he ever get another chance from the Oilers? Will he be traded? How does the pending lockout affect his situation? The Jani Rita Show will be back next week.")

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02-04-2004, 05:51 AM
  #58
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As a finn I have to say I hope Rita gets away from Edmonton. Right now it seems even a marginal prospect like Salmelainen stands a better chance at making the team full time and it is tragic. If Rita doesn't get a quality chance to stay with the team soon his career might be spoiled, anyways he'll head back home to Finland at the end of the contract if he only gets AHL time.

 
Old
02-04-2004, 08:25 AM
  #59
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I don't know if it's a coincidence or not that Pisani and Georges started scoring after this guy showed up but they would be the first two to sit should he ever draw in. That being said I think he should've gotten the call for Chimera because at this point I think we know what we're getting from #28. We know it's not great and I'm not saying it's terrible but let Rita draw in there and see what happens.

But the 10 wingers thing from LT is correct and it only fruther illustrates how this team never trades from depth to address a weakness. Woywitka may turn out to be good but man oh man was that a terrible trade just because Lowe has never been able to find a centre and there he goes and trades one for yet another young defenseman to join both Lynch and Bergeron.

All Lowe's moves are lateral and never address the twin weaknesses of centre and netminding.

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02-04-2004, 09:09 AM
  #60
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As another Finn I really hope Rita escapes Edmonton.I was really upset last season when Pisani was recalled ahead of Rita despite the fact Rita was playing a lot better on the farm.This season Sarno, Salmo and now even Mike Bishai have gotten a chance before Rita.I won't even get into Chimera and Horcoff, who both are mediocre at best, and get consistant playing time.It must be really encouraging to get called up for your "last chance", and then sit on the bench.TMac would probably play the team mascot ahead of Rita.All this talk about his lack of desire is crap.Let him play 20 games in a row and see what he can do, I doubt he'd be any worse than Pisani, Horcoff, Chimera, Laraque et al.

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02-04-2004, 10:27 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK79
As another Finn I really hope Rita escapes Edmonton.I was really upset last season when Pisani was recalled ahead of Rita despite the fact Rita was playing a lot better on the farm.This season Sarno, Salmo and now even Mike Bishai have gotten a chance before Rita.I won't even get into Chimera and Horcoff, who both are mediocre at best, and get consistant playing time.It must be really encouraging to get called up for your "last chance", and then sit on the bench.TMac would probably play the team mascot ahead of Rita.All this talk about his lack of desire is crap.Let him play 20 games in a row and see what he can do, I doubt he'd be any worse than Pisani, Horcoff, Chimera, Laraque et al.
Sarno and Bishai have seen playing time in front of Rita because the Oilers have nothing in terms of centres. Both were up filling a need. Salmo got a callup early in the season because he was the best player on the Runners, and he has been all season long.

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02-04-2004, 11:15 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Sarno and Bishai have seen playing time in front of Rita because the Oilers have nothing in terms of centres. Both were up filling a need. Salmo got a callup early in the season because he was the best player on the Runners, and he has been all season long.
I've only seen Salmo in his brief callups here, what do you think of him. His offensive potential, the type of players he'll be? I find him very similar to Dvorak. Hard working, skates like the wind and while he can contribute offensivly, he's never going to be the go-to guy

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02-04-2004, 11:22 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
I've only seen Salmo in his brief callups here, what do you think of him. His offensive potential, the type of players he'll be? I find him very similar to Dvorak. Hard working, skates like the wind and while he can contribute offensivly, he's never going to be the go-to guy
Honestly?

He reminds me of Marchant, except faster. He doesn't have the best hands, he just puts up numbers solely on the basis of beating the puck to death. He'll go and get like 5 breakaways and score 1 goal.

I think he can be close to an Esa Tikkanen type player. I don't think he has the offensive touch (like I said he scores because of the sheer volume of chances he creates), but he is getting better defensively, and if he can get a little stronger and maybe develop an edge to him, he'd be a pretty useful 3rd/4th liner that provides solid D, energy, and 10-15 goals, 30-35 points or so. Which may not sound very impressive, but it isn't bad for a 3rd round pick.

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02-04-2004, 12:02 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Honestly?

He reminds me of Marchant, except faster. He doesn't have the best hands, he just puts up numbers solely on the basis of beating the puck to death. He'll go and get like 5 breakaways and score 1 goal.

I think he can be close to an Esa Tikkanen type player. I don't think he has the offensive touch (like I said he scores because of the sheer volume of chances he creates), but he is getting better defensively, and if he can get a little stronger and maybe develop an edge to him, he'd be a pretty useful 3rd/4th liner that provides solid D, energy, and 10-15 goals, 30-35 points or so. Which may not sound very impressive, but it isn't bad for a 3rd round pick.
That's about how I'd label him...if he had more offensive ability, he would've been a 1st round pick easy with his tremendous skating. As it is, he has to skate miles to get his points. I'd like him as a bottom sixer though, and maybe he could be a top penalty killer with that speed. Do you know if he plays on the PK much in Toronto?

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02-04-2004, 05:34 PM
  #65
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Is this the "Salmelainen" thread now?

Rita's "last chance"-MacT's words- has thus far been a joke. For a team that has few natural goal scorers it's a wonder he can't get in the line-up. Apparently MacT's depth chart on the wings looks like this:

LW
Smyth
Torres
Moreau
Isbister
Chimera
Rita

RW
Dvorak
Hemsky
Pisani
Laraque
Salmelainen

And if York and Reasoner were healthy you'd have to think that Horcoff would figure into the equation for wingers. If this is Rita's place, he should be dealt. 10 teams in this league could put him into their line-up and he'd probably help them.

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02-04-2004, 05:59 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
Is this the "Salmelainen" thread now?

Rita's "last chance"-MacT's words- has thus far been a joke. For a team that has few natural goal scorers it's a wonder he can't get in the line-up. Apparently MacT's depth chart on the wings looks like this:

LW
Smyth
Torres
Moreau
Isbister
Chimera
Rita

RW
Dvorak
Hemsky
Pisani
Laraque
Salmelainen

And if York and Reasoner were healthy you'd have to think that Horcoff would figure into the equation for wingers. If this is Rita's place, he should be dealt. 10 teams in this league could put him into their line-up and he'd probably help them.
If York and Reasoner were healthy it would probably look more like this:

RW C LW
Dvorak York Smyth
Hemsky Oates Torres
Pisani Reasoner Moreau
Stoll Horcoff Isbister
Laraque Sarno/Bishai Chimera
Salmelainen Bishai/Sarn Rita

...but yeah, you're right Chimera will get the nod over Rita 9 times out of 10 (better make that nine and a half)

they didn't space out as well as I'd planned, but it should be legible


Last edited by misfit: 02-04-2004 at 06:01 PM. Reason: spacing problems
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02-05-2004, 01:31 AM
  #67
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I heard from a very trustworthy source that Rita was sent back to Toronto after the game. What a joke this whole callup was! :mad:

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02-05-2004, 01:39 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkles
I heard from a very trustworthy source that Rita was sent back to Toronto after the game. What a joke this whole callup was! :mad:
Well you can't say he never got his chance to impress MacT in practice.

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02-05-2004, 01:40 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkles
I heard from a very trustworthy source that Rita was sent back to Toronto after the game. What a joke this whole callup was! :mad:
I wouldn't be surprised...looking at the SLAM game summary Rita isn't even mentioned as a healthy scratch. I was suspecting he'd been sent down, but will he get back up after the all star break?

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02-05-2004, 01:41 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkles
I heard from a very trustworthy source that Rita was sent back to Toronto after the game. What a joke this whole callup was! :mad:
On the surface it would seem so. It probably has more to do with the All Star break and wanting to get Rita into games over the break. Although, you have to wonder, with Isbister set to return after the break that leaves Rita as the odd man out again! I think the organisation (macT and lowe) errored by 1. Saying really weird things like "last chance" and "prove himself" and 2. NOT giving him a chance to play on the big club, not even as a 4th liner with some pp time. Bishai will likely stay until Reasoner returns. Rita appears to be getting the royal screw-around either way. Maybe they are trying to "Reasoner" some more character into his game or something? Marty came back from being on waivers and in the minors and became a valuable contributor. Still it makes sense to see what you have in Rita before the summer when a decision has to be made. Although, Chimera and Torres were given one-way deals with way less experience with the NHL Oilers.

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02-05-2004, 02:39 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
I'm going to be some pissed if Rita isn't in the lineup against the Ducks TONIGHT!!! WTF could he hurt!?!?!? NOTHING! Now, I say if he isn't dressed we chant his friggin name! Like if they are dumb enough not to get him in the lineup now of all times then I don't think he's going to get more then a 2-3 game chance where he gets barely any minutes, with poor linemates and no powerplay time, and then MacT will sit there and say "he didn't do this, this, this, and that." and think that he's given the young kid his chance.

Of all the things MacT has been knocked for, I think his biggest downfall is how he takes a kid like Hemsky or Torres and benches them after making a mistake. Like, maybe now I can see it being done, but he's been doing it since the start of the season. How the hell is a kid supposed to get confidence?????!!!!! With the yougn kids growing pains should be expected, experienced, educated about - but shouldn't only play half a game because when that one mistake does occur they don't see the ice again.
Be pissed, then. Rita not only sat in the press box against Anaheim AND St. Louis, he's gonzo alonzo. Sent back to Toronto without even a sniff.


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02-05-2004, 02:45 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Lives
Be pissed, then. Rita not only sat in the press box against Anaheim AND St. Louis, he's gonzo alonzo. Sent back to Toronto without even a sniff.

The Oilers don't play until the 11th, and the Runners have 2 games in that span... it makes sense to have him play there until the Oilers play again.

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02-05-2004, 02:50 AM
  #73
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ya I know - I insisted I got our season tickets for the Chicago and tonights game because I knew there was a one in a billion chance that MacT would get in a car crash on the way to the game and die ( ) and then Rita would have a hope in hell. But as said above - I have a feeling that this is just a situation where the Oilers don't play for 7 days so they figure send him down to play a couple games first so he doesn't have two weeks of rust on him when he DOES (that really isn't right, DOES=IF) get his chance.

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02-05-2004, 09:26 AM
  #74
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As far as Rita being sent down, I am not surprised.

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02-05-2004, 09:57 AM
  #75
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Evidently, Bishai is getting called back up Monday, but Rita is staying in T.O.

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