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R.J.Umberger ?

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Old
02-02-2004, 07:16 PM
  #1
zetta20
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R.J.Umberger ?

if the all knowing brian burke lets r.j.umberger walk does he become an unrestricted free agent or does he go back into the 2004 draft?if he is a ufa Detroit should sign him to a contract as we need a big center in our system.he would be like getting a first rounder for nothing as the canucks would only get a compensatory pick from the league.

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02-02-2004, 07:17 PM
  #2
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He'll be UFA and the Canucks will get a 2nd round pick from the league as compensation.

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02-02-2004, 07:19 PM
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I still think this is an idiotic move by Burke. Good luck getting a player like Umberger (1st or 2nd line potential) back with that 2nd round pick Brian.

The perpetual influx of grinders and 3rd line players will inevitably continue when it comes to Canuck drafting.

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02-02-2004, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
He'll be UFA and the Canucks will get a 2nd round pick from the league as compensation.


this may be a dumb question. But what if after he becomes a UFA and the Nucks get their 2nd round pick as compensation. Can they (the Nucks) still sign him?

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02-02-2004, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWI19
this may be a dumb question. But what if after he becomes a UFA and the Nucks get their 2nd round pick as compensation. Can they (the Nucks) still sign him?
yup

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Old
02-02-2004, 09:44 PM
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The hawks resigned Adam Munro, who they let walk last season- so yes it can definately be done.

But if $$$$ are the issue to not signing him now- why won't they be an issue in 4 months when the price will most definately go up(see Kiel McLeod). I hope the hawks are all over this one as well. But I'm guessing the teams that usually step to the plate in these kind of things(St Louis, Col) will be the front runners.

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02-02-2004, 10:01 PM
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I thought you only get the compensation if he signs with another team, like a normal UFA.

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02-02-2004, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoast
I still think this is an idiotic move by Burke. Good luck getting a player like Umberger (1st or 2nd line potential) back with that 2nd round pick Brian.

The perpetual influx of grinders and 3rd line players will inevitably continue when it comes to Canuck drafting.
Burke has a point though. Umberger is overvaluing himself, thinking he's worth almost $1 M per, which he's not. He needs more development and certainly isn't NHL ready. He saw Kesler getting something like $700K and wanted more than that. Of course, Burke is not going to give into the demands of a guy who's not even in the NHL. Do that, and you'll always be overpaying your 1st rounders. This is why Burke is perfectly content with letting Umberger walk. If some other team wants to overpay this guy, let them. They're not exactly getting Nathan Horton.

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02-02-2004, 11:07 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf331
I thought you only get the compensation if he signs with another team, like a normal UFA.
Nope. You get a 2nd rounder as compensation for the loss of a former 1st rounder. They will get the 16th pick in the 2nd round. See Adam Munro last year (although he is different because he was not worth signing)

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Old
02-03-2004, 02:42 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWI19
this may be a dumb question. But what if after he becomes a UFA and the Nucks get their 2nd round pick as compensation. Can they (the Nucks) still sign him?
He can, but there's no way in hell it will happen.

Burke and Umberger will likely never talk again.

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02-03-2004, 02:46 AM
  #11
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Bust.

2nd rounder is WAY more than Burke would ever get in a trade. He's doing the right thing.

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02-03-2004, 02:55 AM
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id love for detroit to give him a shot. Umberger was in michigan for a few months staying with a family that lines near me. I go2 school with the kid who he stayed with. I saw umberger once and he practiced daily with the local HS team, good guy. Love to see him in detroit!

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02-03-2004, 03:02 AM
  #13
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I think it's more likely that he'll end up in Pittsburgh(born & raised) or Columbus(played college hockey at Ohio State). Not to mention the playing time increase.

Calling him a bust because he didn't sign a contract is a bit much, Burke offered what he thought was fair and never budged, Umberger thought of it as a slap to the face.

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02-03-2004, 03:29 AM
  #14
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Umberger is actually a very underrated prospect IMO. Good size, skill, and made his team competitive in college virtually single handedly. Inconsistancy is his biggest problem.

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Old
02-03-2004, 05:10 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Bust.

2nd rounder is WAY more than Burke would ever get in a trade. He's doing the right thing.
Excuse me, where's your crystal ball? You know for sure that Umberger will be a bust, huh? Do you know what ticket I should buy to win the lottery? If so, PM me.

And to add my two cents, I'm not convinced that Burke would not package Umberger in a deal to get a player who could ideally help us in our playoff run. Umberger is just sitting around doing nothing, so we might as well get an asset that will contribute and do something for us. A compensatory 2nd round pick won't necessarily do squat for us, and even if it did, it wouldn't be for a few years.

Either that or sign the guy. Our system is rather bare of guys like Umberger, IMO. We could use MORE Umbergers, but the situation looks bleak. I doubt we'll sign him. The only real option is to move him for something, IMO.

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02-03-2004, 06:22 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Bust.

2nd rounder is WAY more than Burke would ever get in a trade. He's doing the right thing.
I don't know about that...

my guess is that half the teams in the league - AT LEAST - would give up a 2nd round pick for Umberger.

it'd be almost stupid not to for some teams.

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02-03-2004, 06:41 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Nope. You get a 2nd rounder as compensation for the loss of a former 1st rounder. They will get the 16th pick in the 2nd round. See Adam Munro last year (although he is different because he was not worth signing)
Yes , but would that be considered losing him?

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02-03-2004, 07:55 AM
  #18
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Umberger was a terrible pick at the time and he has done nothing to disprove that notion in the past three years. Canuck fans must drool over the players they could have had. Guys like Jeff Woywitka, Alexander Perezhogin, Lukas Krajicek, Carlo Colaiacovo, Igor Grigorenko et al. Brutal pick.

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02-03-2004, 08:05 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Umberger was a terrible pick at the time and he has done nothing to disprove that notion in the past three years. Canuck fans must drool over the players they could have had. Guys like Jeff Woywitka, Alexander Perezhogin, Lukas Krajicek, Carlo Colaiacovo, Igor Grigorenko et al. Brutal pick.
I'm not arguing whether he was a good pick or not...

almost half the teams in the league would still give up a 2nd round pick for him.

as far as him being a "terrible pick at the time" ... wasn't he rated higher in the CSB rankings than were he was drafted?

and in the past 3 years... didn't he improve his point totals every year, finishing in Hobey voting this past year?

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02-03-2004, 11:34 AM
  #20
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My guess is Umberger could be an interesting trading chip for a higher level UFA. a guy like bondra for example. The canucks might send umberger and maybe King to Washington for Bondra (or chicago for Zhamnov) the team getting Umberger is guaranteed a 2nd rounder at worst in 2004 draft if Bondra were to resign somewhere else the caps would get a 2nd-6th rounder in 2005 depending on how much he signs for. So I think Umberger will be a very valuable trading chip as the trade deadline approaches.

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Old
02-03-2004, 11:52 AM
  #21
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He's still not worth a mil. Good call by Burke that will help him sign his other players.

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Old
02-03-2004, 01:19 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Umberger was a terrible pick at the time and he has done nothing to disprove that notion in the past three years. Canuck fans must drool over the players they could have had. Guys like Jeff Woywitka, Alexander Perezhogin, Lukas Krajicek, Carlo Colaiacovo, Igor Grigorenko et al. Brutal pick.

I'm not sure why you say that. He's had an excellent career at the college level, and has the size and skill to be a top line player at the NHL level. Seems in line for the expectations of a mid 1st round draft pick. He has as much upside, if not more than the guys you mention.

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Old
02-03-2004, 01:32 PM
  #23
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In situations like this, it's easy to determine the value of a player based simply upon where you would be comfortable with your team drafting him if he were to re-enter the draft. I can honestly say that I would be comfortable with Carolina taking him in the 2nd round if he went back in, thus, he's worth a 2nd Rounder as far as i'm concerned. Some teams would probably even take a shot at him late in the first round. I think his value lies somewhere in between an early 2nd and a late 1st rounder.

2001 was a fairly deep draft and Umberger was taken in the first half of the first round. He obviously has talent. His attitude may be an issue, but i'd certainly gamble a 2nd rounder on that. Especially since Carolina has two this year.

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Old
02-03-2004, 02:04 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Umberger was a terrible pick at the time and he has done nothing to disprove that notion in the past three years. Canuck fans must drool over the players they could have had. Guys like Jeff Woywitka, Alexander Perezhogin, Lukas Krajicek, Carlo Colaiacovo, Igor Grigorenko et al. Brutal pick.
you mean like be the runner up for the Hobey Baker award to Peter Sejna?

you just listed 6 players with less than 10 games experience combined. how do you know who will pan out to what?

one of them (Grigorenko), was almost a 3rd round pick. well you'll have to excuse Burke's terrible pick because he didn't take Petr Cajanek in the 1st round, and let the Blue's snag him up in the 8th round. it's pretty easy to say who he should have taken in hindsight.

and calling him a bust? that's pathetic. he hasn't even attended a training camp yet.

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02-03-2004, 02:25 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever

2001 was a fairly deep draft and Umberger was taken in the first half of the first round. He obviously has talent. His attitude may be an issue, but i'd certainly gamble a 2nd rounder on that. Especially since Carolina has two this year.
it's an even easier gamble when you consider that worst case, you just lose a few spots in the draft and retain the 16th pick in the 2nd round - if you can't sign him...

that's not a huge gamble.

I would trade him for a higher pick in the 2nd round... but I doubt it's something Burke would do... i don't see him dealing him at all... but hope if there is a good deal out there, and it takes Umberger as part of the pkg, he doesn't continue being so stubborn.

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