HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Defending against RFA Offer Sheets

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-09-2008, 08:20 AM
  #1
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,782
vCash: 500
Defending against RFA Offer Sheets

Responding to a suggestion that the Habs put an offer sheet to Jeff Carter, the following reply was posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
I think the important question to ask is how much are we going to offer Andrei Kostitsyn???
Excellent observation.

Here is the list of RFAs the Habs have this year, and the amount of qualifying offer required for the Habs to maintain their right to match offer sheets or receive compansation:

AHL Guys
536,250 Jimmy Bonneau
544,500 Corey Locke
544,500 Cory Urquhart
616,000 Janne Lahti
616,000 Marvin Degon

NHL Guys
544,500 Josh Gorges
550,000 Jaroslav Halak
618,750 Maxim Lapierre
649,500 Ryan O'Byrne
672,780 Andrei Kostitsyn
761,250 Mikhail Grabovsky

Assuming the Cap goes up by a minimum of 5% (it could be more), the threshholds become:

$810,000 or less None
$810,001 - $1,230,000: 3rd round pick
$1,230,001 - $2,460,000: 2nd round pick
$2,460,001 - $3,690,000: 1st and 3rd round pick
$3,690,001 - $4,920,000: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick
$4,920,001 - $6,150,000: Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick
$6,150,001 or higher: Four 1st round picks

Other teams, needing help at specific positions, and looking at our roster to hunt for some tasty meat might easily consider making the following types of offers:

810,000 Corey Locke..........no compensation
810,000 Mikhail Grabovsky...no compensation
1,230,000 Josh Gorges........third-round pick
1,230,000 Jaroslav Halak.....third-round pick
1,230,000 Maxim Lapierre....third-round pick
2,000,000 Ryan O'Byrne......second-round pick
2,460,000 * Andrei Kostitsyn...second-round pick
3,690,000 ** Andrei Kostitsyn..first-round plus third-round picks

Assuming another team made such offers and you were Bob Gainey, which would you match, and which would you pass on, and take the compensation?

After all that has been invested in each player, how easily would you give that up and start over with a new draft choice?

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2008, 08:36 AM
  #2
ti-vite
Registered User
 
ti-vite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,070
vCash: 500
Gainey would easily match any of those. Easily and without hesitation.

There were only a handfull of RFA attempts made public, and as you saw they were in the 6M$+ range or very long to really make it sting.

I doubt you will see low rahe RFAs.

If someone offers 6.5M$ per year for 6 years at A Kosty, now thats when you starts thinking it over...

Dustin Penner, lol, got 21.25$ offer over 5 years...after a 25 goal season (45 pts), and a mediocre playoff.


Last edited by ti-vite: 03-09-2008 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Dustin Penner info
ti-vite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2008, 08:43 AM
  #3
nas26
 
nas26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 307
vCash: 500
I am not sure that any of the AHL guys will get qualified, but I expect that all the NHL guys will. Grabovski is interesting because, according to your post, Montreal would not receive compensation if another team tabled an offer-sheet. A. Kostitsyn is also interesting because I could easily see a team offering the 2.46M, and possibly even the 3.69M minimums. I do not see the Habs letting another team outbid them for his services though, unless the offer is ridiculous. I think that Gorges, O'Byrne and Kostitsyn will all get multi-year offer from Montreal. Halak's situation will probably depend on his willingness to play more of a back-up role.

nas26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2008, 08:44 AM
  #4
Habsrichard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post





Other teams, needing help at specific positions, and looking at our roster to hunt for some tasty meat might easily consider making the following types of offers:

810,000 Corey Locke..........no compensation
810,000 Mikhail Grabovsky...no compensation
1,230,000 Josh Gorges........third-round pick
1,230,000 Jaroslav Halak.....third-round pick
1,230,000 Maxim Lapierre....third-round pick
2,000,000 Ryan O'Byrne......second-round pick
2,460,000 * Andrei Kostitsyn...second-round pick
3,690,000 ** Andrei Kostitsyn..first-round plus third-round picks

Assuming another team made such offers and you were Bob Gainey, which would you match, and which would you pass on, and take the compensation?

After all that has been invested in each player, how easily would you give that up and start over with a new draft choice?
I think Gainey would match any of those except Locke. I like Locke but I don't see him in the team's long term plans. O'Byrne would be a little high at 2 million, but I think if this scenario presented itself, Gainey would have to match.

As far as the thread, you may want to add length of contracts, that would make a difference too.


Last edited by Habsrichard: 03-09-2008 at 08:57 AM.
Habsrichard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2008, 08:49 AM
  #5
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-vite View Post
Gainey would easily match any of those. Easily and without hesitation.

There were only a handfull of RFA attempts made public, and as you saw they were in the 6M$+ range or very long to really make it sting.

I doubt you will see low rahe RFAs.

If someone offers 6.5M$ per year for 6 years at A Kosty, now thats when you starts thinking it over...

Dustin Penner, lol, got 21.25$ offer over 5 years...after a 25 goal season (45 pts), and a mediocre playoff.
I agree with you that a Bob Gainey would have to match all of those offers. However, doing so raises the team payroll by almost $6M compared to what it would be if all the RFAs agreed to the qualifying offers except Andrei Kostitsyn, who would be offered the same contract Chris Higgins got last year.

I really do believe that offer sheets, as much as people say they don't like them, will be used increasingly more often, and teams will soon find that they have to spend more dollars on their RFAs which will leave fewer dollars for UFAs. In a year or two, we won't be seeing anymore, in the SAME SUMMER, a player like Sheldon Souray signing for $5.3M and another one like Mike Komisarek signing for $1.7M.

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2008, 08:51 AM
  #6
nas26
 
nas26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-vite View Post
Gainey would easily match any of those. Easily and without hesitation.

There were only a handfull of RFA attempts made public, and as you saw they were in the 6M$+ range or very long to really make it sting.

I doubt you will see low rahe RFAs.

If someone offers 6.5M$ per year for 6 years at A Kosty, now thats when you starts thinking it over...


Dustin Penner, lol, got 21.25$ offer over 5 years...after a 25 goal season (45 pts), and a mediocre playoff.
This is much like what happened with Vanek in Buffalo. Hopefully other GM's are too intimidated, or have too much respect for Gainey to put forward an offer like that for Kostitsyn. He will be a prime target though, showing what he has this year. It would not surprise me at all if some team offered 5M/per for 4+years.....

nas26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2008, 08:59 AM
  #7
crystal ball
Registered User
 
crystal ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Ireland
Posts: 498
vCash: 500
This is why Gainey's got to get busy during the summer and lock everyone up BEFORE offer sheets are a possibility. Good luck and happy negotiating, Bob.

crystal ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2008, 10:08 AM
  #8
HABitual Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Responding to a suggestion that the Habs put an offer sheet to Jeff Carter, the following reply was posted:



Excellent observation.

Here is the list of RFAs the Habs have this year, and the amount of qualifying offer required for the Habs to maintain their right to match offer sheets or receive compansation:

AHL Guys
536,250 Jimmy Bonneau
544,500 Corey Locke
544,500 Cory Urquhart
616,000 Janne Lahti
616,000 Marvin Degon

NHL Guys
544,500 Josh Gorges
550,000 Jaroslav Halak
618,750 Maxim Lapierre
649,500 Ryan O'Byrne
672,780 Andrei Kostitsyn
761,250 Mikhail Grabovsky

Assuming the Cap goes up by a minimum of 5% (it could be more), the threshholds become:

$810,000 or less None
$810,001 - $1,230,000: 3rd round pick
$1,230,001 - $2,460,000: 2nd round pick
$2,460,001 - $3,690,000: 1st and 3rd round pick
$3,690,001 - $4,920,000: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick
$4,920,001 - $6,150,000: Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick
$6,150,001 or higher: Four 1st round picks

Other teams, needing help at specific positions, and looking at our roster to hunt for some tasty meat might easily consider making the following types of offers:

810,000 Corey Locke..........no compensation
810,000 Mikhail Grabovsky...no compensation
1,230,000 Josh Gorges........third-round pick
1,230,000 Jaroslav Halak.....third-round pick
1,230,000 Maxim Lapierre....third-round pick
2,000,000 Ryan O'Byrne......second-round pick
2,460,000 * Andrei Kostitsyn...second-round pick
3,690,000 ** Andrei Kostitsyn..first-round plus third-round picks

Assuming another team made such offers and you were Bob Gainey, which would you match, and which would you pass on, and take the compensation?

After all that has been invested in each player, how easily would you give that up and start over with a new draft choice?
I look at the overall cap situation, and am very encouraged that Gainey should have little problem heading forward, of course nothing can prevent a player signing for far above his current value.

Currently signed for 2008-9 as forwards

Koivu 4.75
Kovalev 4.5
Higgins 1.7
Plekanec 1.6
Begin 1.057
Kostopoulos 0.9
Latendresse 0.85
S Kostitsyn 0.817
Chipchura 0.943

Total = 17.117

signed on defense for 2008-9

Markov 5.750
Hamrlik 5.5
Bouillon 1.875
Dandenault 1.75
Komisarek 1.7

Total = 16.575

signed goalies

Price 2.2

buyouts 0.765

Team Total = 35.892 for 15 currently signed players in 2008-9

If the cap is 55M and assuming we want 2M free, we have 17.108 M to complete a roster

RFA's

A Kostitsyn 2
Halak 1
Lapierre 1
Grabovski 1
Gorges 1
O'Byrne 1

UFA

Streit 2

Team total = 44.892M for 22 players

FA's after 2008-9, salaries off the book

Koivu 4.75
Kovalev 4.5
Begin 1.057
Kostopoulos 0.9
Bouillon 1.875
Dandenault 1.750

Total = 14.832M


Pending UFA's/RFA's after 2008/9 needing extensions to avoid offer sheets/FA

Higgins
Plekanec
Komisarek
Latendresse
Chipchura


Looking at it this way, Gainey needs to lock-up the RFA's and Streit, and then get long-term extensions done with Higgins, Plekanec and Komisarek with the knowledge that after next season he has almost 15M freeing up in cap room. As I wrote earlier, Montreal is in an excellent situation and it will be very difficult for another team to poach a RFA off of the Habs unless it is for a crazy amount like Vanek.

HABitual Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2008, 10:20 AM
  #9
TheOldSage
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 198
vCash: 500
Hopefully andrei wont sign any other team ridiculous offer sheets to play with is bro.

TheOldSage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 12:52 PM
  #10
Papa_Bear_21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 387
vCash: 500
Anyone worried about AK getting signed to an offersheet?

With his improved play this season and the lack of options available (whether it be UFA or RFA) does anyone think that a team may try and sign Andre K to an offer sheet similar to what Dustin Penner got?

Papa_Bear_21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 12:53 PM
  #11
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,726
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
No, his brother is here.

WeThreeKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 12:54 PM
  #12
Tuggy
Registered User
 
Tuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Saint John
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,483
vCash: 50
Why would he sign an offer sheet?

Tuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 12:54 PM
  #13
Habs10Habs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Habs10Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,150
vCash: 500
Any team with young talented players should be a little worried. But like WTK said, as long as S.Kost is around, the worries are very minimal.

__________________
To me, Desharnais is like pop/radio music. No matter how hard I try, I just can't like him. - PyrettaBlaze
Habs10Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 12:55 PM
  #14
Lone Rogue
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Why would he sign an offer sheet?
Penner left a Stanley Cup winning team to join a failure Oilers for extra cash. It's not out of the question.

Gainey will have him signed before then.

Lone Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 12:57 PM
  #15
kalessin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 495
vCash: 500
It's not like teams can just sign players to offer sheets without their consent. I don't see Andrei signing with another team unless the offer is extremely ridiculous -- and Kevin Lowe is out of draft picks so we're probably safe.

kalessin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 12:58 PM
  #16
Tuggy
Registered User
 
Tuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Saint John
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,483
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Penner left a Stanley Cup winning team to join a failure Oilers for extra cash. It's not out of the question.

Gainey will have him signed before then.
Ya but I don't see the two situations being remotely similar.

- His brother plays here
- He doesn't speak very good English and is presumably comfortable here and wouldn't want to go to a new team.
- He is young and fits in with the young core of the team (like Plekanec)
- Kovalev is still here

I'm not worried in the slightest about him signing an offer sheet with another team.

Tuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:00 PM
  #17
Russeltown
Registered User
 
Russeltown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,526
vCash: 500
No, I am not worried about this.

Russeltown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:02 PM
  #18
MM425
Registered User
 
MM425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,569
vCash: 500
RFA offer sheets = Over-rated.

1 team tried it last year and that's because they were desperate. Look how it turned out for Edmonton...

I'm not the least bit worried about Andrei leaving.

MM425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:02 PM
  #19
Habs_46
Registered User
 
Habs_46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New-Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Penner left a Stanley Cup winning team to join a failure Oilers for extra cash. It's not out of the question.

Gainey will have him signed before then.
I'd put Money on Penner thinking the ducks would match, he probably wanted to stay with the duck AND get more money...
I bet he was suprised that Burke didn't match the offer...

and in the long run the ducks will profit from those extra picks.




Oh and I think Gainey will have our RFA's signed before July 1st.
+ there is always the Sergei factor. I'm not to worried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starglider View Post
and Kevin Lowe is out of draft picks so we're probably safe.

Habs_46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:03 PM
  #20
Mr. Hab
Registered User
 
Mr. Hab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Bear_21 View Post
With his improved play this season and the lack of options available (whether it be UFA or RFA) does anyone think that a team may try and sign Andre K to an offer sheet similar to what Dustin Penner got?
You mean...like when Edmonton (GM Kevin Lowe?) put a VERY HIGH number to get Penner...and Anaheim couldn't pay that (salary cap).

Penner could have refused it, right? But hard to when it was what? 4 mil/year.

Edmonton (sort of!) hijacked Penner from Anaheim by throwing a ludicrous amount (well...Edmonton GM felt it was a fair number). In the end...bad karma (imo) for Edmonton (& it sure looks like this is the case this year). And, I lost respect for Edmonton's GM (just my 2 cents).

Some will say that it is FAIR GAME...I personally don't like it (just my opinion) and I hope the NHL (Campbell? Bettman?) changes this rule. It will also save us from extra worrying we do not need . I really hope that GM's stop doing this. We already have UFA market to worry about, salary caps to worry about...

To answer thread's question:
AK is here to stay (I hope I'm right), 'cause I really don't see those two (AK & SK) separated, or...I just don't want to see that ever happen.


Go HABS Go

Mr. Hab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:03 PM
  #21
heatley_fan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Ya but I don't see the two situations being remotely similar.

- His brother plays here
- He doesn't speak very good English and is presumably comfortable here and wouldn't want to go to a new team.
- He is young and fits in with the young core of the team (like Plekanec)
- Kovalev is still here

I'm not worried in the slightest about him signing an offer sheet with another team.
Would you rather be paid 1 million or 4+ million a year?

heatley_fan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:04 PM
  #22
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Why would he sign an offer sheet?
To go join Huet of course..

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:05 PM
  #23
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,548
vCash: 50
I doubt he'll leave.
1) The Habs aren't in cap trouble.
2) He and Sergei are close
3) Excellent team environment for him with all the Russian speakers
4) Montreal is a fun city.

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:06 PM
  #24
Tuggy
Registered User
 
Tuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Saint John
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,483
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanky4681 View Post
Would you rather be paid 1 million or 4+ million a year?
I doubt someone would offer him that much money and I doubt he is even available by the time offer sheets are allowed.

Tuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2008, 01:07 PM
  #25
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I doubt he'll leave.
1) The Habs aren't in cap trouble.
2) He and Sergei are close
3) Excellent team environment for him with all the Russian speakers
4) Montreal is a fun city.
They are always partying those 2.I don't see them having this much fun any where else.

They will sign long term IMO 5-6 years..

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.