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Old
03-11-2008, 04:35 PM
  #76
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I think it's not absurd at all to say that Sergei is better player than Higgins.
Higgins is on pace for 82GP 25+25=50 season. He has struggled a bit, and unless he starts to take big steps forward, his career highs might be something like 30+35=65 (at max imo). He is very streaky in terms of goal-scoring, sometimes he's on, sometimes he's not. His shot is OK but nothing more, he can handle the puck and pass OK. He is very good and consistent defensively.

Sergei has been producing points quite consistently during his rookie year. He has had 1 5-game drought, 1 3-game drought and only 2 2-game point-scoring droughts. Playing the whole year at this rate, he'd have 18G 25A 43 P (for example, Koivu had very similar rookie year: 20+25=45 playing mostly on 3rd line). Actually Sergei reminds me pretty much of young Koivu, now that I mentioned him! He is a puck-possession guy who makes things happen on the ice when he gets the puck. He has a tremendous vision. He is more playmaker-type than goal-scoring type, although he has a good shot also. He is very feisty and quick, he can deke well and definately not a defensive liability. I think Pavel Datsyuk-comparisons are a little bit over the top, but I'd see Sergei score 25 goals and 60 assists = 85 points. Those kind of totals that I expected from Koivu, and he would've reached them easily had he not injured his knee early in his career and lose significant amount of his speed.

If I take Andrei into this... Since Dec 6th his totals are the following:
43 games 18 goals +19 assists=37 points. He has been on the same pace for a long while now. If he'd keep the same pace for a full year, he'd score 35 goals and 70 points!! His role in the 1st line has been a more invisible than Kovalev's and Plekanec's. Those two keep the puck a lot, Andrei's role has often been to come from the background, receive a pass and finish the play. His role has been quite sniperish, but in reality, he can do alot of things with the puck, deke beautifully around defensemen (we've seen it) and make sharp passes. Still, he is in my mind more a finisher than a playmaker. If he can now keep a 70-point rate, I can EASILY see him score 40 goals and 80 points, maybe 90.

I don't want to make decisions which one of the is "better". I'm just glad to have both of them on our team, and it is exciting to see especially how young Sergei develops. Andrei is already at "semi-star"-level.

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03-11-2008, 04:36 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by #eleven View Post
I think it's not absurd at all to say that Sergei is better player than Higgins.
Higgins is on pace for 82GP 25+25=50 season. He has struggled a bit, and unless he starts to take big steps forward, his career highs might be something like 30+35=65. He is very streaky in terms of goal-scoring, sometimes he's on, sometimes he's not. His shot is OK but nothing more, he can handle the puck and pass OK. He is very good and consistent defensively.

Sergei has been producing points quite consistently during his rookie year. He has had 1 5-game drought, 1 3-game drought and only 2 2-game point-scoring droughts. Playing the whole year at this rate, he'd have 18G 25A 43 P (for example, Koivu had very similar rookie year: 20+25=45 playing mostly on 3rd line). Actually Sergei reminds me pretty much of young Koivu, now that I mentioned him! He is a puck-possession guy who makes things happen on the ice when he gets the puck. He is more playmaker-type than goal-scoring type, although he has a good shot also. He is very feisty and quick, he can deke well and definately not a defensive liability. I think Pavel Datsyuk-comparisons are a little bit over the top, but I'd see Sergei score 25 goals and 60 assists = 85 points. Those kind of totals that I expected from Koivu, and he would've reached them easily had he not injured his knee early in his career and lose significant amount of his speed.

If I take Andrei into this... Since Dec 6th his totals are the following:
43 games 18 goals +19 assists=37 points. He has been on the same pace for a long while now. If he'd keep the same pace for a full year, he'd score 35 goals and 70 points!! His role in the 1st line has been a more invisible than Kovalev's and Plekanec's. Those two keep the puck a lot, Andrei's role has often been to come from the background, receive a pass and finish the play. His role has been quite sniperish, but in reality, he can do alot of things with the puck, deke beautifully around defensemen (we've seen it) and make sharp passes. Still, he is in my mind more a finisher than a playmaker. If he can now keep a 70-point rate, I can EASILY see him score 40 goals and 80 points, maybe 90.

I don't want to make decisions which one of the is "better". I'm just glad to have both of them on our team, and it is exciting to see especially how young Sergei develops. Andrei is already at "semi-star"-level.
I do find it funny how a lot of us are bashing a potential 55 PTS (65 in future) 2nd line player..

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03-11-2008, 04:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I do find it funny how a lot of us are bashing a potential 55 PTS (65 in future) 2nd line player..
Me too, but I guess people placed too high expectations on him, and now they're a bit dissapointed that he's not a 40-goal guy.

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03-11-2008, 04:42 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by #eleven View Post
Me too, but I guess people placed too high expectations on him, and now they're a bit dissapointed that he's not a 40-goal guy.
Even though he still could be. He's 24, a lot of people must think he's 31 and declining or something.

His PPG has went up every year, I have no reason to think it won't go up next year.

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03-11-2008, 04:47 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Even though he still could be. He's 24, a lot of people must think he's 31 and declining or something.

His PPG has went up every year, I have no reason to think it won't go up next year.
Yeah, he might, but I don't see it. But I've been wrong before, I never expected Plekanec to be the kind of player he is now...

I'm still more than satisfied with 25-30-goal-guy with great defensive awareness. It would be awesome if he'd develop to a next Jere Lehtinen.

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03-11-2008, 04:51 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by #eleven View Post
Yeah, he might, but I don't see it. But I've been wrong before, I never expected Plekanec to be the kind of player he is now...

I'm still more than satisfied with 25-30-goal-guy with great defensive awareness. It would be awesome if he'd develop to a next Jere Lehtinen.
I'd be happier with Higgins as a 30 goal, 55-60 PTS defensive specialist than an 80 PTS every year superstar.. because it'll be easier for us to sign him.

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03-11-2008, 04:58 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I'd be happier with Higgins as a 30 goal, 55-60 PTS defensive specialist than an 80 PTS every year superstar.. because it'll be easier for us to sign him.
Lol...
I'd be happier with Higgins as a 30 goal, 55-60 PTS defensive specialist than an 80 PTS every year superstar cause we already have great offensive talent developing (or already there) such as Plekanec, Kostitsyns, Pacioretty perhaps etc. It'd be great to have a shutdown guy in 2nd or 3rd bringing in some secondary... or ehm.. tertiary scoring. ...usually there's not too much those types around...

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03-11-2008, 05:02 PM
  #83
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Thank god I know you're never serious.
Well, sometimes I am, but you can easily identify this by the lenght of the post.

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03-11-2008, 05:34 PM
  #84
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I think this third line in the future would be dynamite:

Higgins-Chipchura-Lapierre

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03-11-2008, 05:56 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Montreal fans on these boards are widely known for grossly - laughably - over rating their players, but this stuff with Sergei Kostitsyn has gone to a whole other level.

Recently, on his very board, the vast majority of posters picked Sergei Kostitsyn to be a better prospect/player then Chris Higgins.

That is laughably absurd. It amazes me that people who claim to be fans - who you would assume watch all the games - would actually think that Sergei will be a superior player to Chris Higgins. It's not even close.

Now I open this thread to find you comparing Sergei to Pavel Datsyuk.

Have you watched Datsyuk play? Do you understand the toolset he possesses as a player? Your remarks are truly laughable.
Huh, have you seen Datsyuk play as a rookie? I guess yes since you think the comparison is laughable. Back then, Datsyuk was extremely promising and showed flashes of brilliance. Detroit knew they had someone special in Datsyuk. It's easy for you to quote me (couple of lines from my post omitting the last part which was: Overall, for my 3 examples, I'm not saying that the player mentioned will be as good or even better than their corresponding comparison. All I'm saying is that the comparison are legit in my honest opinion. Only time will tell if the comparison were correct or not but I can just be optimist with the young talent that we have here in Montreal.) I understand that Datsyuk is currently an established player (elite) but we'll talk about Sergei in 3 to 4 years OK? You say that comparing Sergei to Datsyuk is laughable, based on what? Just based on the fact that the other guy is older and elite? Give me a break, everybody starts as an unproven rookie. Some will breakout sooner than others but at the beginning of their career, their potential can be establish. Datsyuk took 3-4 years to become the player he is right now. I just hope you'll be patient enough with Sergei and see what he'll become in that same time frame. Again, not saying he's going to be exactly like Datsyuk. It seems to me that a lot of people think that elite players magically appears in their respective team. Unless they are phenoms such as Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin or Kopitar, it takes time for them to become the player who they are right now... Parise, Getzlaf, Perry, M. Richards, Phaneuf, E. Staal, Spezza, B. Burns, Seabrook, Bouwmeester, even a guy like Vincent Lecavalier took several years to became the superstar he's right now. I would be crazy to tell you that Sergei is as important or as skilled as Datsyuk is right now, but we just have to see what the future holds for Sergei. Completely understand if you don't share my opinion...

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03-11-2008, 06:48 PM
  #86
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Huh, have you seen Datsyuk play as a rookie? I guess yes since you think the comparison is laughable.

Yes, I saw him play plenty as a rookie. Probably about 25-30 times. I could go back and check to tell you exactly. I also saw him play live about 10 times as a rookie as well. Maybe more. He was actually a guy I really enjoyed watching as a rookie. I still do today, he's tremendously talented.

I assure you, you will not find a single hockey person or even a hockey analyst that wouldn't find your comparison of Sergei Kostisyn to Pavel Datsyuk as anything other then patently absurd.


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You say that comparing Sergei to Datsyuk is laughable, based on what? Just based on the fact that the other guy is older and elite?
Huh? What the hell are you talking about? What does age have to do with it? I'm not comparing Sergei to Datsyuk TODAY.

You ask what I'm basing this on? Well, Datsyuk as a rookie, was clearly special in that he had incredible patience and tremendous ability to handle the puck in traffic and one-on-one. He never looked rattled or paniced and played with a calmness and cool demanour. He joined a pretty stacked Red Wings team and still would dazzle veterans at Red Wings practice with a toolbox of skills that clearly put him in the upper echelon. His puckhandling, ability to deke, and patience with the puck meant he could get to open pass lanes and make tremendous plays for his linemates. It took him some time to physically be prepared to be an NHL force, and the I think the Wings would still like him to shoot more, but his skill level was off the chart from day one.

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Originally Posted by kachino82 View Post
Again, not saying he's going to be exactly like Datsyuk. It seems to me that a lot of people think that elite players magically appears in their respective team. Unless they are phenoms such as Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin or Kopitar, it takes time for them to become the player who they are right now... Parise, Getzlaf, Perry, M. Richards, Phaneuf, E. Staal, Spezza, B. Burns, Seabrook, Bouwmeester, even a guy like Vincent Lecavalier took several years to became the superstar he's right now.
But all of those players didn't flip a switch and suddenly have elite skills. They were always there. They needed to grow into their frames, learn the systems of their teams, gain confidence at the NHL level, learn to play defense etc. This skills don't suddenly surface. They're always there. Datsyuk had elite level skills from day one.

I'm not saying I don't like Sergei Kostisyn. I think he's a fine player and an excellent steal for where they got him in the draft. But, in my opinion, it's threads like this one that lead to Hab fans being the laughingstock of the HF Boards because to compare him to Pavel Datsyuk really is funny and deserving of the mockery this will lead to. He's not the same kind of player, he doesn't have the same kind of skills and his ceiling is much, much lower.

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03-11-2008, 06:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Yes, I saw him play plenty as a rookie. Probably about 25-30 times. I could go back and check to tell you exactly. I also saw him play live about 10 times as a rookie as well. Maybe more. He was actually a guy I really enjoyed watching as a rookie. I still do today, he's tremendously talented.

I assure you, you will not find a single hockey person or even a hockey analyst that wouldn't find your comparison of Sergei Kostisyn to Pavel Datsyuk as anything other then patently absurd.




Huh? What the hell are you talking about? What does age have to do with it? I'm not comparing Sergei to Datsyuk TODAY.

You ask what I'm basing this on? Well, Datsyuk as a rookie, was clearly special in that he had incredible patience and tremendous ability to handle the puck in traffic and one-on-one. He never looked rattled or paniced and played with a calmness and cool demanour. He joined a pretty stacked Red Wings team and still would dazzle veterans at Red Wings practice with a toolbox of skills that clearly put him in the upper echelon. His puckhandling, ability to deke, and patience with the puck meant he could get to open pass lanes and make tremendous plays for his linemates. It took him some time to physically be prepared to be an NHL force, and the I think the Wings would still like him to shoot more, but his skill level was off the chart from day one.



But all of those players didn't flip a switch and suddenly have elite skills. They were always there. They needed to grow into their frames, learn the systems of their teams, gain confidence at the NHL level, learn to play defense etc. This skills don't suddenly surface. They're always there. Datsyuk had elite level skills from day one.

I'm not saying I don't like Sergei Kostisyn. I think he's a fine player and an excellent steal for where they got him in the draft. But, in my opinion, it's threads like this one that lead to Hab fans being the laughingstock of the HF Boards because to compare him to Pavel Datsyuk really is funny and deserving of the mockery this will lead to. He's not the same kind of player, he doesn't have the same kind of skills and his ceiling is much, much lower.
So to you, Sergei Kostitsyn doesn't have this star skills set ?! It's you're opinion, but I disagree with that.

When you talk about skill set, you're talking about technical skills right ?

I don't think the Pavel Datsyuk comparison is accurate, but Sergei Kostitsyn does remind me of a bigger version of Marc Savard because both are very similar player and posseses the same kind of skills set. Marc Savard doesn't have superstar technical skills, but what clearly put him in the superstar category is his superior hockey Smarts. The same can be said about Sergei.

You guys just don't understand that to be a star, you don't need that flashy style nor elite technical skills. If you have elite smarts and hockey sense and good work ethic, you can achieve Superstar Status in this league. And it's not like if Sergei has weak technical skills either, it's just that it's not his strengh.


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03-11-2008, 07:06 PM
  #88
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So to you, Sergei Kostitsyn doesn't have this star skills set ?! It's you're opinion, but I disagree with that.

When you talk about skill set, you're talking about technical skills right ?

I don't think the Pavel Datsyuk comparison is accurate, but Sergei Kostitsyn does remind me of a bigger version of Marc Savard because both are very similar player and posseses the same kind of skills set. Marc Savard doesn't have superstar technical skills, but what clearly put him in the superstar category is his superior hockey Smarts. The same can be said about Sergei.

You guys just don't understand that to be a star, you don't need that flashy style nor elite technical skills. If you have elite smarts and hockey sense and good work ethic, you can achieve Superstar Status in this league. And it's not like if Sergei has weak technical skills either, it's just that it's not his strengh.
Marc Savard has elite passing skills and excellent hockey vision. I don't think Sergei measures up to Savard in either of those categories.

Savard tore up the junior ranks as a pure passer. He turned pro and piled up nearly an assist a game as a rookie pro. You're talking about a guy who has excellent instincts in the offensive zone, threads the needle repeatedly and elevates the play of the players on his line. I definitely don't think Sergei Kostisyn will be piling up 70 plus assists a season like Marc Savard does.

Sergei is being grossly over-rated in this thread. It's way, way over the top.

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03-11-2008, 07:09 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Yes, I saw him play plenty as a rookie. Probably about 25-30 times. I could go back and check to tell you exactly. I also saw him play live about 10 times as a rookie as well. Maybe more. He was actually a guy I really enjoyed watching as a rookie. I still do today, he's tremendously talented.

I assure you, you will not find a single hockey person or even a hockey analyst that wouldn't find your comparison of Sergei Kostisyn to Pavel Datsyuk as anything other then patently absurd.

Huh? What the hell are you talking about? What does age have to do with it? I'm not comparing Sergei to Datsyuk TODAY.

You ask what I'm basing this on? Well, Datsyuk as a rookie, was clearly special in that he had incredible patience and tremendous ability to handle the puck in traffic and one-on-one. He never looked rattled or paniced and played with a calmness and cool demanour. He joined a pretty stacked Red Wings team and still would dazzle veterans at Red Wings practice with a toolbox of skills that clearly put him in the upper echelon. His puckhandling, ability to deke, and patience with the puck meant he could get to open pass lanes and make tremendous plays for his linemates. It took him some time to physically be prepared to be an NHL force, and the I think the Wings would still like him to shoot more, but his skill level was off the chart from day one.

But all of those players didn't flip a switch and suddenly have elite skills. They were always there. They needed to grow into their frames, learn the systems of their teams, gain confidence at the NHL level, learn to play defense etc. This skills don't suddenly surface. They're always there. Datsyuk had elite level skills from day one.

I'm not saying I don't like Sergei Kostisyn. I think he's a fine player and an excellent steal for where they got him in the draft. But, in my opinion, it's threads like this one that lead to Hab fans being the laughingstock of the HF Boards because to compare him to Pavel Datsyuk really is funny and deserving of the mockery this will lead to. He's not the same kind of player, he doesn't have the same kind of skills and his ceiling is much, much lower.
Yeah, I guess I can be laugh at by comparing Sergei to Pavel. I guess I'm wrong. You know what? All the things you mentioned about Datsyuk, I have a weird feeling that one day, I might be able to tell you about the same thing about Sergei but who am I to say things like that right? Hope you will be here in 3-4 years to tell me that I was wrong about that. That was a great post anyway...

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03-11-2008, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kachino82 View Post
Yeah, I guess I can be laugh at by comparing Sergei to Pavel. I guess I'm wrong. You know what? All the things you mentioned about Datsyuk, I have a weird feeling that one day, I might be able to tell you about the same thing about Sergei but who am I to say things like that right? Hope you will be here in 3-4 years to tell me that I was wrong about that. That was a great post anyway...
You're entitled to your opinion, most definitely. I just think you are grossly over-rating Sergei Kostitysn.

He's a solid young player, and certainly a surprise in terms of the level of his contribution so far this year. But I think comparing him to Chris Higgins is a little much, so you can imagine I don't think a Datsyuk comparison is apt.

Players of Datsyuk's level are tremendously gifted. Sergei, while skilled, isn't *that* skilled.

We can agree to disagree. I meant no disrespect to you... I should clairify - I think the opinion is absurd - not you! You're good in my books

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03-11-2008, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Marc Savard has elite passing skills and excellent hockey vision. I don't think Sergei measures up to Savard in either of those categories.

Savard tore up the junior ranks as a pure passer. He turned pro and piled up nearly an assist a game as a rookie pro. You're talking about a guy who has excellent instincts in the offensive zone, threads the needle repeatedly and elevates the play of the players on his line. I definitely don't think Sergei Kostisyn will be piling up 70 plus assists a season like Marc Savard does.
I really fail to see how any of this is different than Sergei Kostitsyn. They both tore up the OHL as passers, then while Savard got a better season in the AHL, Kostitsyn was called sooner, stuck with the team and completely outproduced a 20 yo Marc Savard who played in the NHL. I'm wondering if you're the one who even watches the games considering Yvon Pedneault and Pierre Houde have commented on the fact Carbonneau keeps mentionning Sergei's outstanding vision(Il a des étoiles dans les yeux lorsqu'il parle de la vision de Kostitsyn or something along those lines a few weeks back). It's his main skill and I really can't understand how anyone who's seen him can't acknowledge that he's got an excellent vision.

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03-11-2008, 07:43 PM
  #92
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I really fail to see how any of this is different than Sergei Kostitsyn. They both tore up the OHL as passers, then while Savard got a better season in the AHL, Kostitsyn was called sooner, stuck with the team and completely outproduced a 20 yo Marc Savard who played in the NHL. I'm wondering if you're the one who even watches the games considering Yvon Pedneault and Pierre Houde have commented on the fact Carbonneau keeps mentionning Sergei's outstanding vision(Il a des étoiles dans les yeux lorsqu'il parle de la vision de Kostitsyn or something along those lines a few weeks back). It's his main skill and I really can't understand how anyone who's seen him can't acknowledge that he's got an excellent vision.

I agree with you. FerrisRox doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. Sergei Kostitsyn DOES HAVE SUPERSTAR'S HOCKEY VISION AND SMARTS.

You think that his vision isn't great ? Fine
But I do.

Let's wait another 3-4 years to see what happens, because we can argue and argue forever on this point

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03-11-2008, 07:56 PM
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I really fail to see how any of this is different than Sergei Kostitsyn. They both tore up the OHL as passers, then while Savard got a better season in the AHL, Kostitsyn was called sooner, stuck with the team and completely outproduced a 20 yo Marc Savard who played in the NHL. I'm wondering if you're the one who even watches the games considering Yvon Pedneault and Pierre Houde have commented on the fact Carbonneau keeps mentionning Sergei's outstanding vision(Il a des étoiles dans les yeux lorsqu'il parle de la vision de Kostitsyn or something along those lines a few weeks back). It's his main skill and I really can't understand how anyone who's seen him can't acknowledge that he's got an excellent vision.


Sergei Kostisyn piled up assists in Junior. His linemates were Patrick Kane (1st overall) and Sam Gagner (6th overall)

Marc Savard put up 96 assists with the Generals in 94-95. His linemates were... uh... well, Darryl LaFrance got 55 goals and 122 points that year, thanks to Savard. He never made it to the NHL. Ryan Lindsay had 31 goals... but also didn't it make it to the NHL. Do you see a difference in their situations?

You want to talk about how each fared as an NHLer at 20? Surely then you're going to factor in the kind of league the NHL was when Savard was 20. Huge forwards, clutching and grabbing was the order of the day, sticks were routinely in the armpits of skilled players in the offensive zone. Savard at 5'10 was dealt a tough hand there. Comparing the league then to now is foolhardy for drawing comparisons.

I won't even comment on you using Yvon and Pierre to "improve" your argument.


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03-11-2008, 08:42 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post


Sergei Kostisyn piled up assists in Junior. His linemates were Patrick Kane (1st overall) and Sam Gagner (6th overall)
Well, they said the year before his production was due to his linemates and PP time with Shremp. The year after, he blew up and scored at the same pace or better than his two teammates. He wasn't a leecher, ask any London fans out there and they'll tell you so. That line was a junior version of Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson. No one's leeching, they're simply excellent players by themselves.

And besides, the teammates argument can be so weak. Everyone and their dog heard how Savard wasn't going to put up the same numbers with Kovalchuk on his wing. Well, he did.

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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Marc Savard put up 96 assists with the Generals in 94-95. His linemates were... uh... well, Darryl LaFrance got 55 goals and 122 points that year, thanks to Savard. He never made it to the NHL. Ryan Lindsay had 31 goals... but also didn't it make it to the NHL. Do you see a difference in their situations?
Sergei also kept up a ppg in the AHL and he wasn't playing with two guys who were proven scorers(40 goals and 68 goals before being with Savard) at the AHL level. Sergei's proven his production has translated into the pros, both in the A and the NHL, just like it did for Savard.

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You want to talk about how each fared as an NHLer at 20? Surely then you're going to factor in the kind of league the NHL was when Savard was 20. Huge forwards, clutching and grabbing was the order of the day, sticks were routinely in the armpits of skilled players in the offensive zone. Savard at 5'10 was dealt a tough hand there. Comparing the league then to now is foolhardy for drawing comparisons.
The point stands that Sergei Kostitsyn is doing well on the second line at a young age. To deny his vision is foolish at best, anyone who just saw that Koivu goal a few minutes ago would tell you so. Anyone who's seen him improve every game and give great feeds night after night as well.
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I won't even comment on you using Yvon and Pierre to "improve" your argument.
Whatever, the facts speak for themselves. Guess why Carbo puts him on the point of the PP; it's not because of his shot.

I still don't see how it's foolish to think Sergei could become better than Higgins, which all of this was about. In the end, their play in the coming years will speak for itself and if Higgins does become the better player, then I'll be happy since I like them both a lot.

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03-11-2008, 08:58 PM
  #95
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lol, terrible passes.

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03-11-2008, 09:28 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin View Post
Well, they said the year before his production was due to his linemates and PP time with Shremp. The year after, he blew up and scored at the same pace or better than his two teammates. He wasn't a leecher, ask any London fans out there and they'll tell you so. That line was a junior version of Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson. No one's leeching, they're simply excellent players by themselves.

And besides, the teammates argument can be so weak. Everyone and their dog heard how Savard wasn't going to put up the same numbers with Kovalchuk on his wing. Well, he did.


Sergei also kept up a ppg in the AHL and he wasn't playing with two guys who were proven scorers(40 goals and 68 goals before being with Savard) at the AHL level. Sergei's proven his production has translated into the pros, both in the A and the NHL, just like it did for Savard.


The point stands that Sergei Kostitsyn is doing well on the second line at a young age. To deny his vision is foolish at best, anyone who just saw that Koivu goal a few minutes ago would tell you so. Anyone who's seen him improve every game and give great feeds night after night as well.


Whatever, the facts speak for themselves. Guess why Carbo puts him on the point of the PP; it's not because of his shot.

I still don't see how it's foolish to think Sergei could become better than Higgins, which all of this was about. In the end, their play in the coming years will speak for itself and if Higgins does become the better player, then I'll be happy since I like them both a lot.
Look, if you want to pretend that there's not a huge difference between the quality of the linemates in Junior for Sergei and Marc, go ahead, but it just makes you look silly.

And if you want to dismiss the massive difference between the NHL of the mid-90's and the NHL of today, suit yourself, but again, it just makes you look ignorant - or stubborn - or both. The differences are obvious. The rulebooks are different. The coaching philosophies are different. But you can pretend it isn't if it make you feel better.

But where you lose me - where I stopped bothering to even read the rest of your post - is where you said I "denied his vision."

Huh? I never said he wasn't a good player. I never said he wasn't a good passer. But I said he's not as good a passer ... as Marc Savard.

According to you, I'm denying his vision when I say he doesn't have the vision of Marc Savard - THE GUY WHO LEADS THE ENTIRE NHL IN ASSISTS RIGHT NOW?

C'mon, surely you can see how ridiculous you sound?

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03-11-2008, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Look, if you want to pretend that there's not a huge difference between the quality of the linemates in Junior for Sergei and Marc, go ahead, but it just makes you look silly.

And if you want to dismiss the massive difference between the NHL of the mid-90's and the NHL of today, suit yourself, but again, it just makes you look ignorant - or stubborn - or both. The differences are obvious. The rulebooks are different. The coaching philosophies are different. But you can pretend it isn't if it make you feel better.

But where you lose me - where I stopped bothering to even read the rest of your post - is where you said I "denied his vision."

Huh? I never said he wasn't a good player. I never said he wasn't a good passer. But I said he's not as good a passer ... as Marc Savard.

According to you, I'm denying his vision when I say he doesn't have the vision of Marc Savard - THE GUY WHO LEADS THE ENTIRE NHL IN ASSISTS RIGHT NOW?

C'mon, surely you can see how ridiculous you sound?
Our prospects are sacred Ferris... you can't criticize them.





Edit: I have to say that SK is very good. And I'm seeing the argument. He has poise, smarts, patience, instinct... a lot of things that might eventually make him better than AK. But I still maintain that his ceiling is 20 - 45 or 50.


If everything goes well..

AK : 85 points
Pleks : 75 points
SK : 70 points
Higgins : 65 points
Latendresse : 55 points


I can garantee however that they won't all attain those hights.

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03-11-2008, 10:07 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Look, if you want to pretend that there's not a huge difference between the quality of the linemates in Junior for Sergei and Marc, go ahead, but it just makes you look silly.
I didn't, I came up with an example of how the teammates argument can be weak. I don't see how the distinction is so hard to make.
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
And if you want to dismiss the massive difference between the NHL of the mid-90's and the NHL of today, suit yourself, but again, it just makes you look ignorant - or stubborn - or both. The differences are obvious. The rulebooks are different. The coaching philosophies are different. But you can pretend it isn't if it make you feel better.
What in the post you quoted made you think that I did, quote it.

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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
But where you lose me - where I stopped bothering to even read the rest of your post - is where you said I "denied his vision."

Huh? I never said he wasn't a good player. I never said he wasn't a good passer. But I said he's not as good a passer ... as Marc Savard.

According to you, I'm denying his vision when I say he doesn't have the vision of Marc Savard - THE GUY WHO LEADS THE ENTIRE NHL IN ASSISTS RIGHT NOW?
Fair enough, but then again, you went on against vampiro when she never claimed Sergei Kostitsyn could put up the same kind of assist totals, and neither did I.

We're both making the argument that Kostitsyn does have an interesting skillset and that players with the same type of skillsets have had considerable success. No, chances are Sergei Kostitsyn will never lead the league in assists, but if you say you knew that would've happened with Savard then we can stop arguing because you're either a liar or a fool.

Are you going to tell me he doesn't have a similar skillset as Savard? Personally, I think he's got a good chance of being like Tanguay. Excellent vision, good puckhandler and can chip in with some goals.

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C'mon, surely you can see how ridiculous you sound?
Not at all, but I know better next time then to argue with a cranky old Leafs fan.

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Our prospects are sacred Ferris... you can't criticize them
Sorry AD, but there's no way you can claim I'm a blind prospect homer.

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Old
03-11-2008, 10:13 PM
  #99
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Sorry AD, but there's no way you can claim I'm a blind prospect homer.
Definitely was not talking about you. You always back up your positions, even when I think you're wrong, you make sensible arguments.

But some others... :


I remember arguing with people that Higgins was not a 40 goal scorer... that Grabovski was not the 2nd coming..

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Old
03-11-2008, 10:19 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by guapo23 View Post
On ething I've noticed is that Sergei has a very interesting style of skating & stickhandling.

He stickhandles the puck tight to his body & skates really hard.

Other players who skate like this include Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Fischer.

Has anybody else noticed this ?
Yes that is true. He is very busy with the puck too. He moves it quickly on his stick

What I have liked most since his Junior days is the way he always seems to make something out of a pass. Like the goal he set Lats up with last game He snaps his passes. Sometimes guys are not expecting it

When he played with the Knights guys like Bolland Schremp Gagner and Kane moved the puck around like crazy. Sergei had no trouble matching up in that respect with those guys

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