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Old
03-16-2008, 10:08 PM
  #51
cpmCBJ
 
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Did you miss OSU beating Xavier last year? Did you miss OSU in the championship
game last year? Did you miss OSU having top 5 recruiting classes for 3 years in a row? How is Xavier doing better than OSU?
you act like osu beat them down. it took a lucky shot by conley to send the game to overtime. did you miss that? osu got ridiculously lucky with their recruiting class last year, and now that it's gone, they're mediocre. they have no business in the tournament and thankfully they didn't make it in. now they'll lose to dayton in the NIT

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03-16-2008, 10:21 PM
  #52
Hilliardsw55
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You know..all of this talk of the franchise being in trouble is just hogwash.

I can't imagine not having the Blue Jackets here in Columbus. All I see for their future is improvement..mainly the playoffs and improvement doesn't mean moving the team. I just can't see the team NOT improving with our gain in a new GM and a new head coach. Scott Howson's comments on their determination to gain players that will help this organization over the summer make me further believe that this team will go places next year and beyond that (and I don't mean to another city.)

We've already talked about the ownership of the team and their ties to the city. With the way the ownership is built in with the team and their obvious upward future, it is very unlikely that this team is going anywhere..unless, of course..they completely FAIL and do not come close to making the playoffs in the next 5 years. Scratch that. Unless they do not MAKE the playoffs, there is no "coming close" for this team anymore. It's all or nothing.

That was a little bit of rambling here and there..but I had to let all of that out. heh.

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Old
03-16-2008, 10:35 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
...Attendance per victory over the last 3 seasons has got to be better than league average.
Just on this season alone, taking league attendance percentage divided by total wins, we are 15th in the league. At first I tried to do it by total attendance, but the data becomes skewed in favor of teams with fewer wins, so percentage appeared to be the more favorable means of data.

Team %Att/Wins
1 Tampa Bay 3.282758621
2 Los Angeles 3.271428571
3 Buffalo 3.258823529
4 Toronto 3.23125
5 Calgary 3.037837838
6 St. Louis 2.872413793
7 Philly 2.862857143
8 Edmonton 2.811428571
9 Vancouver 2.808333333
10 Atlanta 2.738709677
11 Minnesota 2.705263158
12NY Rangers 2.702702703
13 Ottawa 2.6725
14 NY Islanders 2.5875
15 Columbus 2.509375
16 Anaheim 2.507317073
17 Montreal 2.5
18 Pittsburgh 2.456097561
19 Colorado 2.382051282
20 Nashville 2.375
21 San Jose 2.366666667
22 Washington 2.32
23 Phoenix 2.319444444
24 Chicago 2.314705882
25 Dallas 2.30952381
26 Carolina 2.246153846
27 Florida 2.245714286
28 Boston 2.202702703
29 New Jersey 2.069047619
30 Detroit 1.993617021

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Old
03-17-2008, 12:17 AM
  #54
JACKETfan
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Originally Posted by Macster View Post
Come on man. This wasn't supposed to be a playoff year. Everybody who really follows the team knows that this is a transition year between the MacLean era and the Howson era.

Howson isn't going to jump right into his new position and start overhauling the roster. He needed to take this season to evaluate which players on the team represent the core, and to find out the areas which need long term improvement.

Like I said before, I almost wish the team didn't win as often as it did this year, it teased some fans into thinking we were for real this year.

I think it's easy to say "well, this wasn't the season." But it could have been.
We WERE for real, and then there was the allstar break. There was nothing "transition year" about the standings going into the break. We were THERE!

And Howson could have made ONE more move: he could have signed Sykora last summer. He has 20 goals. And nobody wanted him.

Additionally...we only needed to catch a break:
Example: had Modin been healthy, we'd be in the hunt for real.
Example: had Vybes had half a decent season, we'd be in the hunt for real.

This "wasn't supposed to be" the season... but with a few breaks and one more move, it would have been. That bodes well for next year. We're not that far.

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Old
03-17-2008, 06:20 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmCBJ View Post
you act like osu beat them down. it took a lucky shot by conley to send the game to overtime. did you miss that?
You evidently did - the shot was by Ron Lewis.

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Old
03-17-2008, 07:20 AM
  #56
Dr. Fire
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This team is on the verge of greatness. Why?

We are finally at the point where our young players are beginning to mature. This season has been good for them. Being able to play meaningfull games, win or lose, gives them invaluable experience for the future.

We have some excellent prospects waiting in the wings, and Howson has the money, players, and draft picks to make some vital trades.

I honestly would not be surprised to see a Sabres style turn-around next year.

And yes, the Nat will once again be sold-out every game.

Also, in terms of attendance this year. Our slide to 29th this year has been helped by the fact that many other teams who have been below us in the past have played well enough to actually bring their attendance up. So the fall isn't just attributable to our attendance being down.

Look at Chicago. How many years did they average 11,000, but now with the team that they have they are doing great at the box office.


Last edited by Dr. Fire: 03-17-2008 at 08:35 AM.
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Old
03-17-2008, 07:21 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Macster View Post
Come on man. This wasn't supposed to be a playoff year. Everybody who really follows the team knows that this is a transition year between the MacLean era and the Howson era.

Howson isn't going to jump right into his new position and start overhauling the roster. He needed to take this season to evaluate which players on the team represent the core, and to find out the areas which need long term improvement.

Like I said before, I almost wish the team didn't win as often as it did this year, it teased some fans into thinking we were for real this year.
I buy that Howson couldn't come in and make wholesale changes right away. What I don't buy is the fact that he didn't bring in a top line center--a fact that anyone could figure out we needed. Last year was the year to do that as it was a deep UFA class and it would have allowed a more balanced cap situation than we have now. It was pretty clear that Foote and Feds would be gone and bringing in veteran leadership for the future was important. Also, it would have allowed for a little more continuity from the current team to the future team than we will have.

There was no tease here with us making the playoffs this year. I predicted 86 points after the dust had cleared in preseason and never waivered from that being where we would end up. You could see all year, we were short up the middle...

Finally, the organization (and part of the fan base) may be "fine" with "assessing the team for a year", but this fan never was and never will be. The organization "assessed" on the backs of fans thinking they would be able to get away with it. In my view, a more balanced approach of bringing in a much needed center could have been done while still "assessing" the team.

Question: Do you think the assessment period was somehow going to produce a top line center? If no, then why not bring one in when several were available and we clearly had the cap space to do it. It would have allowed us to meter in the new talent (and the cap space management) rather than the deluge that will presumably occur this offseason.

It sounded more like a "savings" move than it did like an "assessment" move--at least to me.

I'm done whining, but it's going to be very difficult to convince me that Howson shouldn't have brought in that first line center last year.

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Old
03-17-2008, 07:27 AM
  #58
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This was supposed to be a transition year, right? If I remember, there was a thread last summer that Hitch held a series of townhall meetings with season ticket holders. a .500 team is what he said we would be this year. This team did not venture into the UFA market last summer because of the the anchor and chain contracts of Foote and Federov. I think we all jumped on the playoff bandwagon after great a October and January. I do not feel lied to as in previous years. The inconsistencies the team experienced is the only thing that has left me frusterated this year, but I've been entertained thoroughly. We need top 6 forward depth and top pairing defenseman this off-season, I believe these needs will be addressed. As a long time hockey fan and a day 1 Blue Jacket fan, I truely feel we are on going in the right direction.

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Old
03-17-2008, 07:45 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I don't think it would be profitable for current ownership to move the team. Attendance per victory over the last 3 seasons has got to be better than league average. Fans are waivering, but attendance is still decent. Lets see what attendance does when we have a playoff season. If it doesn't rise when this team becomes a top 8 team, then we're in trouble(ala Nashville). Until then, why would McConnel think that moving a losing team to another city would magically make the team more profitable?

Lastly, the McConnels are tied to this city. So it would take alot for them to move the team, as in, severing their financial ties to Columbus and thats not happening. Not when they name Hospital wings after your family.
On bolded point....Really? "The Jackets are 29th out of 30 teams in attendance."

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...F.html?sid=101

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Old
03-17-2008, 07:50 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
This was supposed to be a transition year, right?
And this is what burns most season ticket holders....WHY?! If thats the case, we should have been given transition year season ticket prices. Thats what pisses most of us off, "ohh, we're not going to improve the team because its a transition year, but we want you to continue to pay the same prices while we try and figure out the team" BS

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Old
03-17-2008, 08:43 AM
  #61
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BlueJacketNut, Nordique is referring to attendance based on numbers of fans per win. Yea, we are 29th out of 30 teams based on league average attendance figures, but if you base attedance on fans per number of wins the teams have, we are like 15th. Someone posted a chart earlier that showed how that works.

And, like I said earlier, our fall to 29th has also been helped by other teams average attendance going up, due to the new found parity, and their teams playing better.

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Old
03-17-2008, 09:01 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CBJ Bob View Post
This was supposed to be a transition year, right? If I remember, there was a thread last summer that Hitch held a series of townhall meetings with season ticket holders. a .500 team is what he said we would be this year. This team did not venture into the UFA market last summer because of the the anchor and chain contracts of Foote and Federov. I think we all jumped on the playoff bandwagon after great a October and January. I do not feel lied to as in previous years. The inconsistencies the team experienced is the only thing that has left me frusterated this year, but I've been entertained thoroughly. We need top 6 forward depth and top pairing defenseman this off-season, I believe these needs will be addressed. As a long time hockey fan and a day 1 Blue Jacket fan, I truely feel we are on going in the right direction.
Perhaps you bought the "transition year" propaganda hook line and sinker, but I did not. Granted, there was going to be some transition with a coach getting his first full season and a new GM, but to me, that wasn't a license to do little to nothing to improve the team.

I'll give you this: they were honest that they weren't going to do anything. Where we differ is, I think that was a mistake for the franchise and not because we aren't now in the playoffs....

They now have one of two choices:

1. Spend to the cap floor and make it look like they've made the team better...(which I'm a bit skeptical of)

2. Although this option is unlikely, spend to somewhere between the cap floor and cap ceiling with a flood of new guys coming in and our hands tied from a cap situation down the road. A more gradual approach would have been more prudent IMO.

Consider this:

Had we gone ahead and signed a center last offseason we probably would have filled more seats this year and would have been in a healthier financial situation as a result. As it stands, the "assessment" ended up forcing the franchise to take a step back (and please note the difference between franchise and team). Regardless of whether Howson is a genius or an idiot, you still have a non-negligible number of fans jumping off the bandwagon as we speak. That is NEVER a good thing for a franchise. I think it wreaks of a miscalculation on the part of Howson and I'm not so sure Howson's strategy is as sound as the bulk of the posters here are willing to admit.

As it stands, we need more help than we can add...#1 center, #2 center, #1 and #2 defenseman, and a top six forward wouldn't hurt either. Are we going to roll the dice on the 08-09 season on the "young talent" developing yet again? That is now a very very high risk move...

The point is, some of this work should have been done last offseason and/or at the trade deadline.

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Old
03-17-2008, 09:33 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Do you even go to many games Sam? I never hear you talking about going.
Those were some of the good things that happened this year.

I'm not concerned about this franchise staying in Columbus at all.
Our owners and affiliates have deep pockets.

Fact: WBNS/DISPATCH/WOLFE FAMILY ENTERPRISES could own this team all by themselves. And the team is a goldmine for their paper/tv/radio ventures.

Fact: Nationwide owns the arena and the district. No way the let the team falter. they have too much at stake to let that happen. If it's ever sold...it would be sold to either them or the Wolfe family.

Fact: Read the paper today about the Net Jets story. The Jackets ALSO bring that kind of job and revenue base to Cbus. No way the city/state fathers let a professional franchise leave town.

Fact: This ain't Nashville. And case you noticed, Nashville still has a team.
That's good to hear, this thread had me worried especially since a lot of you seem to be expecting a lot from the free agent market this summer when it looks to be pretty weak...

A lot of people say Montreal couldn't attract UFAs but mostly it was because they weren't a playoff team, same as Columbus. Atlanta on the other hand is a good example of how making the playoffs at all costs can be detrimental to your team long-term.

I just don't know how much you can expect from Howson barring a miracle, especially in the Western Conference.

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Old
03-17-2008, 09:34 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
On bolded point....Really? "The Jackets are 29th out of 30 teams in attendance."

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...F.html?sid=101
Completely ignore all attendance figures.
They are the product of marketing imagination.

In today's paper they said last night's game was a sell-out.
Ticket-wise, maybe so. But there were plenty of empty seat.

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Old
03-17-2008, 09:41 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
You evidently did - the shot was by Ron Lewis.
oh sorry, i forgot that one detail. but thanks for picking that one out of my post. the point still stands. it took a lucky shot for a stacked osu team to get to OT against a mid-major.

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Old
03-17-2008, 09:48 AM
  #66
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oh sorry, i forgot that one detail. but thanks for picking that one out of my post. the point still stands. it took a lucky shot for a stacked osu team to get to OT against a mid-major.
Yeah, that team sure did suck.




About the Blue Jackets....
  • Yesterday's game was a sellout
  • We beat the #1 team in the NHL
  • We set a new points record
  • We are going to add a lot in the offseason
  • The team is going nowhere
  • Get with the program

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03-17-2008, 10:27 AM
  #67
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I dont think theres any worry about losing the team, I think theres a lot of local investors that wont let them go away, but we're dangerously close to becoming the punch line to many losing jokes.

I will always root for the Jackets, but I will not continue to financially support the team if they dont make the decision that its just as important to win now as it is in 3 years, and unfortunately SH has done nothing to show he wants to win now (subtracting 2 key players and not filling those positions is evidence of that).

And as far as adding a lot this offseason....good luck, does SH think that other teams WONT be looking to do the same thing? As stated before, we have at least 4 KEY positions to fill, if not more, but the very least 4. If he is able to do that next year, i'll be the first to give him credit....but im not buying Novotny type signing as #1 or even #2 C. And im not really that fond of the trade deals unless the player getting traded WANTS to be here...we dont need more Sydor type situations. If the player is willing then fine, but you better gage that interest before pulling the trigger on any trades.

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03-17-2008, 10:51 AM
  #68
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And as far as adding a lot this offseason....good luck, does SH think that other teams WONT be looking to do the same thing? As stated before, we have at least 4 KEY positions to fill, if not more, but the very least 4. If he is able to do that next year, i'll be the first to give him credit....but im not buying Novotny type signing as #1 or even #2 C. And im not really that fond of the trade deals unless the player getting traded WANTS to be here...we dont need more Sydor type situations. If the player is willing then fine, but you better gage that interest before pulling the trigger on any trades.
Yep, and if the Brad Richards saga taught us anything, its that noone is going to give away a truly great center just to shed salary and free up cap space. Howson is not going to trade away our young talent for a top line center.

We have money, more than maybe anyone in the league right now. That means we are strong buying in the Free Agent market, which is skewed towards defensemen this year. We also have draft picks which translate into offer sheet currency.

I expect we'll see the signing of one of the truly big name defensemen this offseason(Campbell, Redden). Next I expect we'll see a mid range center signed(Lombardi for example) in hopes of using him on either of our top lines. Lastly, I wouldn't be shocked to see an offer sheet for an RFA this year. We have money and draft picks and are desperate for talent.

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Old
03-17-2008, 12:14 PM
  #69
Dr. Fire
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In today's paper they said last night's game was a sell-out.
Ticket-wise, maybe so. But there were plenty of empty seat.
Odd, I was at the game and there were a few empty seats, but I didn't notice "plenty" of empty seats.

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03-17-2008, 12:32 PM
  #70
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Odd, I was at the game and there were a few empty seats, but I didn't notice "plenty" of empty seats.
I was at home watching and it was very loud. I can believe they sold all tickets, I can also believe brokers, scalpers, and no shows could have left 1,000 seats empty, but thats typical.

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03-17-2008, 01:38 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
Odd, I was at the game and there were a few empty seats, but I didn't notice "plenty" of empty seats.
"Plenty" enough to question the definition of "sold out" ...that's for sure. There were three empty seats infront of me, 2 empties in our row, and several empties in the row behind us, and I showered.

Wingfans easily accounted for 2000-3000 tickets. They were there in force. Friday night v Chicago there were half empty rows all through sections 101 and 102 behind the team and across the ice from the team.

Don't want to nitpick...just wish the media and some fans would be a little more truthful about attendance.

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03-17-2008, 01:56 PM
  #72
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Wings fan.

Heard during the broadcast of yesterday's game that the sell-off at this year's deadline was not a sign of bad things to come.

Basically, the CBJ front office felt this year's performance was as far as this current iteration was going to take them. Close, but not a contender.

So they dumped the veteran leadership (ie expensive verteran leadership) with an eye toward the draft and free agency.

Dont lose hope, Columbus faithful. You have some real young talent on the roster and one heckuva coach. A good draft with a solid FA signing or two, and this team is better than Nashville. That is, in the playoffs with a chance to make noise.

On to more specific suggestions (not that it matters, unless one of you are the GM), but CBJ needs to draft top flight defensmen. Come hell or high water, if it means moving Zherdev or whatever, a stud young blueliner (or 2 or 3) would instantly make CBJ a perennial playoff team. Add in some surprise draft pick/FA centerman that isnt "injury prone" and this team is solid.

Leclaire is the real deal of all meals. Nash is sick. Vyborny is a good solid second liner. Hainsey and Klesla are solid second pairings (Hainsey may become a solid first pairing, Klesla unfortunately, is as good as he is going to be). Brule has HUGE upside, but I think was brought to the big leagues much too soon. The forward core is full of good players who can fill other lines (mostly checking lines, Malholtra, etc).

CBJ has pieces, I just dont think management (ownership) has made the necessary commitment to fielding a winner. If they dont have any intention of doing so, then yes, your suspicions are warranted. The team will be moved.

If CBJ is looking for a blueprint, look no further than in your division. Nashville. They shed almost all their payroll last year and yet still are in the hunt for the postseason. How? Good young defense and solid goaltending. Thats it. Thats all it takes in this league.

CBJ is already ahead of the curve having a proven #1 goaltender and a superstar forward. Already have 2 proven young defensmen. Add two more in FA/draft and CBJ never misses the playoffs barring terrible injuries.

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03-17-2008, 02:20 PM
  #73
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SH still thought we were a playoff team after the trade deadline....at least thats what he tried to sell when he didnt replace F/F's position.

We dont need "young" stud defensman from the draft, we need NHL level stud defensman (yes we need them for the future, but im done talking about the future, my expectations are success next year and every year following). This years draft will not do anything for this team next year (other then a draft day trade), nor should it, if it does, we filled our key needs with draft picks...not gonna work.

But Vybes is not a 2nd line center in the NHL anymore (not if your plan is to make and compete in the Stanley Cup playoffs), this years production is clear of that and the way that a slight breeze can knock him off the puck.

Hainsey is not a top pairing, his defense doesnt even come close to being in a breath with names like Pronger, Neidermeyer, Phanuff and many others that are true #1 dman. Hainsey, on a playoff team is no more then a 3rd or 4th dman, same with Klesla (Klesla's D is better then Hainsey's, but Hainesy has him on offense)

The CBJ have all the pieces of the car except the engine and tires....unfortuantely, your car is pretty worthless without those important pieces.

I agree that Leclaire may be the real deal just as long as not too many of those Chicago games creep back into play.

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Old
03-17-2008, 03:12 PM
  #74
CBJ Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
Perhaps you bought the "transition year" propaganda hook line and sinker, but I did not. Granted, there was going to be some transition with a coach getting his first full season and a new GM, but to me, that wasn't a license to do little to nothing to improve the team.

I'll give you this: they were honest that they weren't going to do anything. Where we differ is, I think that was a mistake for the franchise and not because we aren't now in the playoffs.....
No propaganda just the truth is what they fed us after MacLean was fired.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
They now have one of two choices:

1. Spend to the cap floor and make it look like they've made the team better...(which I'm a bit skeptical of)

2. Although this option is unlikely, spend to somewhere between the cap floor and cap ceiling with a flood of new guys coming in and our hands tied from a cap situation down the road. A more gradual approach would have been more prudent IMO..
All indications are they will spend alot more this summer. They did try to add Brad Richards.


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Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
Consider this:

Had we gone ahead and signed a center last offseason we probably would have filled more seats this year and would have been in a healthier financial situation as a result. As it stands, the "assessment" ended up forcing the franchise to take a step back (and please note the difference between franchise and team). Regardless of whether Howson is a genius or an idiot, you still have a non-negligible number of fans jumping off the bandwagon as we speak. That is NEVER a good thing for a franchise. I think it wreaks of a miscalculation on the part of Howson and I'm not so sure Howson's strategy is as sound as the bulk of the posters here are willing to admit.
The team was handcuffed by two terrible contracts. That had something to do with why we had difficulty getting a new GM here because the team had little wiggle room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
As it stands, we need more help than we can add...#1 center, #2 center, #1 and #2 defenseman, and a top six forward wouldn't hurt either. Are we going to roll the dice on the 08-09 season on the "young talent" developing yet again? That is now a very very high risk move...

The point is, some of this work should have been done last offseason and/or at the trade deadline.
I get the feeling only having a lineup equal to the 1977-1978 Montreal Canadiens. Foote and Federov are gone. The team can now start moving forward. I was patient this year I'll be less so next.

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03-17-2008, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
SH still thought we were a playoff team after the trade deadline....at least thats what he tried to sell when he didnt replace F/F's position.

We dont need "young" stud defensman from the draft, we need NHL level stud defensman (yes we need them for the future, but im done talking about the future, my expectations are success next year and every year following). This years draft will not do anything for this team next year (other then a draft day trade), nor should it, if it does, we filled our key needs with draft picks...not gonna work.

But Vybes is not a 2nd line center in the NHL anymore (not if your plan is to make and compete in the Stanley Cup playoffs), this years production is clear of that and the way that a slight breeze can knock him off the puck.

Hainsey is not a top pairing, his defense doesnt even come close to being in a breath with names like Pronger, Neidermeyer, Phanuff and many others that are true #1 dman. Hainsey, on a playoff team is no more then a 3rd or 4th dman, same with Klesla (Klesla's D is better then Hainsey's, but Hainesy has him on offense)

The CBJ have all the pieces of the car except the engine and tires....unfortuantely, your car is pretty worthless without those important pieces.

I agree that Leclaire may be the real deal just as long as not too many of those Chicago games creep back into play.

By your estimation, prepare to perennially disappointed then. If Hainsey isnt what I thought, and Klesla is just as negligible, the organization as a whole is royally screwed.

What your saying with above post is that Columbus has ZERO pieces outside Nash and Leclaire.

If thats the case you are making, then youre following a loser organization that will never, ever compete barring some fluke luck pick (ala Datsyuk/Zetterberg) or a Crosby-type pick.

I personally wouldnt ever use #1 pairing defensemen like Pronger, Neids as benchmarks for Klesla and Hainsey. San Jose didnt have an elite defensemen until Campbell, and even thats debateable. Yet, theyre really really good.

Thats what I was talking about. Stud #1 dmen != Pronger/Lidstrom/Neidermeyererer

Those 3 players are once-in-a-generation players. You cant count on having that, nor can any club. Outside Pronger/etc already named, go down the list of all 16 playoff teams in the NHL and name their top 2 dmen....if Hainsey and Klesla cant be included in the discussion as good or better than some, then your argument has legs. If they can, then CBJ is only a stud defensemen or two from contention.

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