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Old
03-17-2008, 03:30 PM
  #76
KeithBWhittington
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
On to more specific suggestions (not that it matters, unless one of you are the GM), but CBJ needs to draft top flight defensmen.
Thank You!! If we plan on keeping both our firsts, I would rather they both turn into defenseman, in fact, I'd go after defense and goaltending with our first 4 or 5 picks.

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03-17-2008, 03:32 PM
  #77
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I just looked at the 2008 UFA thread, and put together a a little insight into the players CBJ could absolutely sign now that Foote and Fed are gone.

Defensemen:
Aaron Ward
Mattias Norstrom
Brad Stuart
Bryce Salvador
Paul Mara
Wade Redden
Brian Campbell
Aaron Miller


Forwards:
Daymond Langkow
Craig Conroy
Kristian Huselius
Pavol Demitra
Marian Hossa (too much money, IMO)
Mats Sundin (quite obvious he isnt going anywhere)
Brenden Morrison (relatively cheap too)


Anyone of the forwards (namely centermen) and two of the defensmen, and CBJ is back in the hunt. Looking over their cap situation...

Dear God, you have 12 million in cap space this year alone....that number only increases next year....wow...

Easily, very easily, with a LOT of room to spare, CBJ *could* get any two of those dmen and a centerman. Boom, right back in it.

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03-17-2008, 03:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I think it's easy to say "well, this wasn't the season." But it could have been.
We WERE for real, and then there was the allstar break. There was nothing "transition year" about the standings going into the break. We were THERE!

And Howson could have made ONE more move: he could have signed Sykora last summer. He has 20 goals. And nobody wanted him.

Additionally...we only needed to catch a break:
Example: had Modin been healthy, we'd be in the hunt for real.
Example: had Vybes had half a decent season, we'd be in the hunt for real.

This "wasn't supposed to be" the season... but with a few breaks and one more move, it would have been. That bodes well for next year. We're not that far.

I think it's easy to say "we could have signed Sykora".

I'll leave it to you to look at my posts from September/October, and you can see that I have held this stance since day one. This is a transition year.

Who knows where we would have been with a healthy Modin? He has produced when healthy. Ditto for a a productive Vybes. As far as I'm concerned playoffs this year would be a bonus.

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03-17-2008, 03:49 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by contingent_23 View Post
Thank You!! If we plan on keeping both our firsts, I would rather they both turn into defenseman, in fact, I'd go after defense and goaltending with our first 4 or 5 picks.

Absolutely. Old adage in hockey. Build from the net out.

Leclaire: Looks to be the real deal. Absolutely, unequivocally a NHL starting goalie in spades.

Defense: I still think Hainsey and Klesla are solid dmen. No, they arent Neids/Pronger/Lidstrom, but who is? Right, no one. So, add two top dmen and youre golden with UFA/Hainsey 1st pair - Klesla/UFA 2nd pair. Boom.

Forwards: Need, desperately need a centerman for Nash. Realistically, if I were CBJ, I'd sign Morrison pronto. He may not be a #1 centerman, and thats fine. He can be a #1 in a pinch if nothing works out, but ideally he'd be a #2...and a damn fine one.

Hes proven he can do it when paired with elite players (remember, he was the center for the best line in the league for 2 years). Nash is an elite player. Worst case scenario, Morrison only puts up 60-70 points. Best case, 80-90. Either way, youre better now than before.

That leaves an open center position on the first two lines. As I hear it in this thread, ownership will not spend to the cap (sadly). Fine, you have to work with what you got. Sign Morrison and you at least have a #2 center. Work a trade with one of those #1 picks and a player (Zherdev or Vyborny) for another center. With a #1 and one of those two, the sky is the limit. Throw in another later pick, and anyone in the league can be had that isnt an untouchable (Im looking at you Jokinen).

--------------------------------

Man, just screwing around in this thread gets me excited! Seriously!

CBJ has pieces even if some fans dont want to admit it. Too busy comparing themselves with the Wings/Ducks/Sharks/Devils.....that takes time. Im looking at Calgary/Minny/Nashville (Vancouver is a one-trick pony, IMO...no need to compare to them).

Sign Morrison. Sign Norstrom or Redden (or both). Trade Zherdev/Vyborny and a #1 pick for Jokinen. This team would be sick good. Out of control good. Powerhouse good. Better than Calgary, better than Nashville, better than Vancouver, better than A LOT of teams.

Leclaire gets some more experience, and gets hot at the right time.....that team could make real noise.

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Old
03-17-2008, 03:49 PM
  #80
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Huselius, Redden and Campbell please...

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03-17-2008, 03:54 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
By your estimation, prepare to perennially disappointed then. If Hainsey isnt what I thought, and Klesla is just as negligible, the organization as a whole is royally screwed.

What your saying with above post is that Columbus has ZERO pieces outside Nash and Leclaire.

If thats the case you are making, then youre following a loser organization that will never, ever compete barring some fluke luck pick (ala Datsyuk/Zetterberg) or a Crosby-type pick.

I personally wouldnt ever use #1 pairing defensemen like Pronger, Neids as benchmarks for Klesla and Hainsey. San Jose didnt have an elite defensemen until Campbell, and even thats debateable. Yet, theyre really really good.

Thats what I was talking about. Stud #1 dmen != Pronger/Lidstrom/Neidermeyererer

Those 3 players are once-in-a-generation players. You cant count on having that, nor can any club. Outside Pronger/etc already named, go down the list of all 16 playoff teams in the NHL and name their top 2 dmen....if Hainsey and Klesla cant be included in the discussion as good or better than some, then your argument has legs. If they can, then CBJ is only a stud defensemen or two from contention.
We've been getting prepped by the last 8 years of CBJ hockey. Im in the stage right now that needs to see results, no more talk.

As I stated, we have the car pieces, but not the necessary pieces to get the car moving (#1 center is the engine, #1 Defensman is the tires). We've got the gas cap, the seat covers, the seat belts, its just those dont do a lot of good when you dont have the engine. Our top players are Zherdev, Nash, Leclaire, Modin. Outside of those, theyre all 3rd line and up players or kids expected to play far before theyre ready (Voracek's already been penciled in by many even though he's never played a real pro game yet, yes he played pre season, but that doesnt count)

Yes, we have been following a loser organization up to this point (as evidence, never even close to a playoff birth in its existence). As stated above, results, not talk.

As for Hainsey, there's 33 defensman ahead of him in points. I would be willing to say that ever dman on our team is better then Hainsey when it comes to actually playing defense...he has them by points, but he's not even close to being at the top or middle of that list. Hejda (and Klesla) is much close to being a top dman then Hainsey is. Klesla....well, he can be good in the defensive end, not going to get you more then 20 points, but he gets the nod over Hainsey when it comes to defense.

Youre talking to a fan base that has historically tried to win on lean teams. We either use the excuse "too much to fix right now" or just the basic fact that Columbus doesnt get much interest when it comes to a FA deciding where he wants to play.

"Be patient" is not a good phrase to say to most CBJ fans at this point.

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03-17-2008, 04:06 PM
  #82
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^Fair. But the team is closer than I think you are willing to admit. Youre right, FAs arent exactly clamoring for Columbus.

But a centerman would clamor to play with Nash. They know what he is, what he can be. Nash is still a a baby, for chrissakes! Luring a centerman to CBJ shouldnt be difficult with the promise of playing with Rick. Seriously.

Then your only real problem is defensemen. Sadly, I dont have a suggestion beyond "overpayment". Unfortunately, thats the reality. If Redden was going to get $6 on the market, CBJ goes $6.5 or longer term (or both). Norstrom will not be overly expensive, hes older now, but still rock solid. He'd be your new Adam Foote. But I always felt CBJ expected too much from Foote, and rightfully so seeing the $$ he was making. But he was never offensive, he just so happen to play with Sakic/Hejduk/Forsberg for a good majority of his career....the guy trips on 30pts and a +30 just showing up on the ice.

So, Redden is the question mark. Maybe thats shooting too high, maybe it isnt. I dont know. But, plan B, grab Aaron Ward if you can. Ward+Norstrom solidifies your D. Thats two stay-at-home defensive defensmen. Ward+Hainsey, Norstrom+Klesla = solid, solid d-corp.

Sign Morrison, trade for Jokinen (losing Vyborny/Zherdev). Morrison plays with Vyborny/Zherdev (whomever is left) and Jokinen plays with Nash. Peca goes back to the 3rd line center he was born to be, and the BlueJackets make the playoffs as the 4th seed. Book it.


Last edited by DarkReign: 03-17-2008 at 04:14 PM.
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03-17-2008, 05:05 PM
  #83
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Biggest obstacle is an incredibly inept ownership group that "wants to win" as long as it can be done on shoestring budget. Even their new $46 million budget they are talking about is nothing compared to a cap in the mid 50's.

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03-17-2008, 05:24 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
Biggest obstacle is an incredibly inept ownership group that "wants to win" as long as it can be done on shoestring budget. Even their new $46 million budget they are talking about is nothing compared to a cap in the mid 50's.
I think this season has proved to the ownership practicing what they preach will involve loosening the purse strings a little more...;of course this could be the reason they hired Howson, he's quiet, reserved as opposed to Doug MacLean, who is on the record saying the ownership group wasn't willing to spend what it took to be successful.

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03-17-2008, 05:31 PM
  #85
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I felt we were close at the trade deadline, until we shipped off 2 key players and didnt replace them with NHL talent. We were told that we may be sellers, and buyers at the deadline, and just went with sellers, but still told the fan base that they believe we can still compete for the playoffs and were a better team without Adam Foote and Sergei Fedorov ( I know why they were traded, the issue is the lack of replacement). We are not a better team without those 2...no matter what you think of them personally. SH's "quite" nature will always leave room for questions to be answered.

I dont hate the team that we have, I like the car that sitting on blocks waiting for the engine and tires. It'll kick ass once it gets on the road.....but the car has been in the garage for 8 year now (regardless of why) and we want to get out on the road already!

I'd be willing to bet, the more negative/vocal of the group of fan base, are season ticket holders. I've spent over $20k in support of the CBJ since 97, unfortunately that ties me into it a little more emotionally and having higher expectations. Its one of the drawbacks of being a STH, with others being unbearable repetition of poor in game entertainment (how bout this weekends Roll up the Rim NON winner lol, classic).

But Vybes is a FA, and would doubt he'd be willing to do a sign and trade type deal that it would turn out to be. I wouldnt argue any of the names mentioned making us better....but i'd argue our ability to get them here. But I would package Z in a trade for Jokinen if it was necessary, Scotty gets to have fun with his new contract after next year.

This organization has always been thinking about the future...its time to think about the now.

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03-17-2008, 06:47 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
I've spent over $20k in support of the CBJ since 97, unfortunately that ties me into it a little more emotionally and having higher expectations.
Well then, you sir, are entitled to any opinion you so desire. I can definitely understand your position a lot better.

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03-17-2008, 07:32 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by cincyfan View Post
haha my sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by GoodVybes View Post
Hey, don't let the door hit ya.
This team is about to post its best record ever. It is March and playoff talk was semi-realistic until this past week. In fact, the team is not mathematically eliminated yet.

But, here we are. Some people just aren't happy. So go.
I don't think you get it at all. To succeed, to stay in Columbus, to have the revenues to sign the right players, this team needs every fan: diehards, bandwagon fans, and people who aren't even hockey fans. If you truly believe a team with the small fan base this one has can survive in the NHL on diehards, fans YOU believe think the "right way", you are sadly mistaken.

Most of the people on this board would be there till the bitter end. Of course, that's a small number.

Additionally, I don't honestly know, but I am curious how many posters buy season tickets?

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03-17-2008, 08:08 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
Additionally, I don't honestly know, but I am curious how many posters buy season tickets?
I'll guess around 50% of the posters here have season tickets. I've got about $45,000 invested into the club if you consider the food, beverages, lower bowl tics and all the rest. That's a decent chunk of change over the 8 years but no one forced me to spend it.

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03-17-2008, 09:00 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
I felt we were close at the trade deadline, until we shipped off 2 key players and didnt replace them with NHL talent. We were told that we may be sellers, and buyers at the deadline, and just went with sellers
What happened at the deadline, like it or not, was the worst possible outcome. It was a lack of boldness, Howson couldn't quite bring himself to gut this roster. The season was basically over when he shipped both Foote and Feds away, whether he would admit it or not is not important. He was between a rock and hard place, either sell the farm and get what you can for everyone you're not planning on resigning and possibly pissing off Hitch in process. Scott didn't handle the Trade Deadline decisively enough.

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03-17-2008, 09:03 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Macster View Post
I think it's easy to say "we could have signed Sykora".

I'll leave it to you to look at my posts from September/October, and you can see that I have held this stance since day one. This is a transition year.

Who knows where we would have been with a healthy Modin? He has produced when healthy. Ditto for a a productive Vybes. As far as I'm concerned playoffs this year would be a bonus.
Yeah, I'd agree with you on all points.
It was "supposed to be" a transition year.
The surprise is that with a break here or there, it could have been the whole ball of wax. And that's what always bothered me... we were close enough to taste it but didn't have the extra depth, or the lucky breaks.

re: Sykora...
His name was bandied about late summer on this board. Svits bolted, and we got Peca instead. Why not both? (Wouldn't have cost that much)

Now let me answer that: Probably Priest and his damn budget, ...and the fact that Howson was the new guy and probably felt like he had asked for enough with Hejda, Novo and Peca.

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03-17-2008, 09:05 PM
  #91
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re: Sykora...
His name was bandied about late summer on this board. Svits bolted, and we got Peca instead. Hindsight, of course. But my point is that Howson DID make some low-cost moves (Hejda, Novo, Peca), so ...why couldn't Howson have made ONE more?

Now let me answer that: Probably Priest.
Petr Sykora made disparaging comments about Columbus towards the end of last year....

File him along with Hasek, Slave Kozlov and Keith Tkachuk.

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03-17-2008, 09:09 PM
  #92
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Petr Sykora made disparaging comments about Columbus towards the end of last year....

File him along with Hasek, Slave Kozlov and Keith Tkachuk.
Link?

My point about Sykora is that there were several guys like him... who couldn't have carried a little extra load around here. I remember feeling the same way when JP Dumont was ignored by this franchise. Amazing what a year of poor attendance has done to bring clarity and a sense of urgency to the Management and Ownership.

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03-17-2008, 09:13 PM
  #93
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Link?

My point about Sykora is that there were several guys like him... who couldn't have carried a little extra load around here. I remember feeling the same way when JP Dumont was ignored by this franchise. Amazing what a year of poor attendance has done to bring clarity and a sense of urgency to the Management and Ownership.
I don't have one, but I do remember him saying something about stopping the Oilers losing Streak because they were "coming to Columbus" it was towards the end of the season....

We don't need his kinda help....

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03-17-2008, 09:42 PM
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I don't have one, but I do remember him saying something about stopping the Oilers losing Streak because they were "coming to Columbus" it was towards the end of the season....

We don't need his kinda help....
Wow...somebody from Edmonton dissing Columbus.
I retract my preseason desire. The guy's obviously insane.

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03-17-2008, 09:49 PM
  #95
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Wow...somebody from Edmonton dissing Columbus.
I retract my preseason desire. The guy's obviously insane.
Now you're playing for Team Columbus!!!

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03-18-2008, 04:18 PM
  #96
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I'll guess around 50% of the posters here have season tickets. I've got about $45,000 invested into the club if you consider the food, beverages, lower bowl tics and all the rest. That's a decent chunk of change over the 8 years but no one forced me to spend it.
It's a lot of $$. No one forced any of us, and I was fine with renewing by March 14th. My concern is the slipping attendance and some of the things I've seen that indicate they realize they have a problem.

I hope they decide the answer is a strong team, not marketing fluff.

They sent a letter to PSL holders from GMSH detailing their trading deadline moves. They sent a letter explaining and apologizing for the early renewal, coupled with the "threat" that if you don't renew, you can't buy playoff tickets.

Sounds like marketing to me. I hope there is a commitment to winning coupled with the marketing.

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03-18-2008, 05:16 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I'll guess around 50% of the posters here have season tickets. I've got about $45,000 invested into the club if you consider the food, beverages, lower bowl tics and all the rest. That's a decent chunk of change over the 8 years but no one forced me to spend it.
We're in the same land yacht, Robert. Although dragging my feet on renewal, I will do some type of package. Gives me something to beoch about. Also a reason to imbibe. But not that same old kool-aid. I have advanced myself to their shampain. Like a fine whine, it gets better with age.

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03-18-2008, 05:25 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
It's a lot of $$. No one forced any of us, and I was fine with renewing by March 14th. My concern is the slipping attendance and some of the things I've seen that indicate they realize they have a problem.

I hope they decide the answer is a strong team, not marketing fluff.

They sent a letter to PSL holders from GMSH detailing their trading deadline moves. They sent a letter explaining and apologizing for the early renewal, coupled with the "threat" that if you don't renew, you can't buy playoff tickets.

Sounds like marketing to me. I hope there is a commitment to winning coupled with the marketing.
I've stayed away from this thread for the most part but here's my scoop. The attendance in the last few weeks bodes well for the organization. I'm actually amazed how the local core fans keep paying for tickets regardless of losing, never making the playoffs and quite frankly having the worst expansion team in memory since the Ottawa Senators. I think there is some college sport fan influence behind it. That's a good thing actually.

The Blue Jacket organization will lose more season ticket holders next year but there will still be enough (around 9,500 imo) to keep things afloat without making the playoffs for probably one or two more years. But that's it imo, unless the fans are totally crazy. If they make the playoffs within one or two years things will be fine. But the PSL owners are going to face some sticker shock when the playoffs do come-they will be expensive, that may impact PSL ticket sales in near future years.

The problem today as I see it, is that the non paying Blue Jacket market has not expanded with all these years of losing. Check local resturant and bar TV's within 25 miles of the city (away from the Arena District) when the Jackets play, few show the Jackets.

The core ticket paying fans of aound 9,000-10,000 will always be around but it takes more than them to recover a team from many years of losing. Even if the Jackets make the playoffs don't expect 100,000 fans to suddenly toss money on the ice. The playoffs will help on the road to financial recovery for the CBJ but that will not end the problems created from losing for so long in a small market that never really developed a community wide fanbase.

So, how much trouble are we in? More than enough for most small market American cities but not as much as some markets in past history. The Jackets will be ok for a couple more years even if they continue to tank, but patience will run out at some point...probably after 8.5 seasons of losing.


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03-18-2008, 07:29 PM
  #99
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What's a PSL?

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03-18-2008, 07:38 PM
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What's a PSL?
Personal Seat License

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