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ATD #9 Sign-up and Preliminary Discussion

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Old
03-12-2008, 04:21 PM
  #1
Transplanted Caper
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ATD #9 Sign-up and Preliminary Discussion

Welcome to ATD #9

The draft will last 24 rounds. You must draft 2 goalies, 6 defensemen, 12 forwards, a coach and 3 extra players.* (based on ATD#8 format, this can change depending on what direction the discussion takes over the next two and a half weeks)

Trading is allowed. Trades must be equal in numbers, 2 picks for 2 picks, 1 player and a pick for 2 picks, and so on. Really lopsided trades can be vetoed.

The playoff format will follow all other ATD's with first round matchups somewhat flexible depending on the math we have to employ (which is determined on the # of teams entered).

Tentative Start Date: March 29th

Note: This is not a first come, first served scenario. Thus it is STRONGLY encouraged to co-GM. Please also note that if a determination is needed to decide whether someone is in or out it won't be a unilateral one. As many veteran GMs will be contacted as to the best course of action to follow.

Matters to Discuss

Please indicate your preference for the following topics with a YAY or NAY

1. Mandatory Voting: All GMs willing to sign up and draft for two months must, unless there are extreme circumstances, vote in each playoff round regardless of whether their team has been eliminated or not. Participation in the next ATD could be determined based on your voting participation in this ATD

2. Cut off on the number of teams, say in the 30-32 range. There were 28 last time so there may not be an issue here, but if the goal is to finish before the summer a cap may be needed to expediate the process.

3. Just for fun: All Teams pick a play-by-play man at the end based on the draft order. Won't affect playoffs or judgments, but might be interesting to get some tidbits on some of the broadcasting greats of years gone by and present day.


Please feel free to suggest changes, you're input is appreciated (other than Rick of course )



The GM's
Transplanted Caper- Glace Bay Miners
GBC and raleh - Ottawa RCAF Flyers
vcl and Willie for Captain - Winnipeg Jets
cottonking - Dallas Freeze
Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs
Jungosi and FloodofSpartans
pitseleh - Nanaimo Clippers
Nate the Great and chaosrevolver - Montreal Sarasaurusrex.
Spitfire11 - Detroit Red Wings
pappyline - Buffalo Bisons
Papershoes and Johnny O - St Catharines Teepees
Eagle Belfour - Detroit Falcons
Arbezz - Inglewood Jacks
Hockey Outsider - Montreal Canadiens
seventieslord -Regina Pats
shawnmullin - Trail Smoke Eaters
John Flyers Fan - Philadelphia Flyers
Nalyd Psycho - Minnesota Fighting Saints
Lapierre Sports - Montreal Wanderers
Rick Middleton and Sturminator - Springfield Isotopes
VanIslander and Frightened Inmate #2
Bring Back Bucky - Donair City Loch Ness Monsters
Vakar Lajos - Brooklyn Yawning Otters
Blue Bleeder - St. Louis Eagles
Roger's Pancreas and MiamiScreamingEagles - Calgary Stampeders
reckoning - Ottawa 67's
nikjr - Lada Togliatti
Hedberg - Victoria Salmon Kings
monster_bertuzzi - Vancouver Millionaires
Cup 2008 Sens Rule - Ottawa Silver Seven
Evil Sather - Kootenay Ice
Pwnasaurus - Kanass City Scouts


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03-12-2008, 04:24 PM
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TC's Team will honour one-half of a great Cape Breton rivlarly and the home of one of the originals ATD GM's

The Glace Bay Miners



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03-12-2008, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for doing this, TC. And big-time thanks to BM for running this thing for as long as I've been involved.

In what will be the most unsurprising announcement of the draft, raleh and God Bless Canada will be co-GMs of a team. Name to be announced.

A few quick suggestions:

*Start date. Can we move it up? Say, March 21? I think we've had enough time to cogitate our good moves, and our mistakes, from the last draft. Three to five days is plenty of time to sign up. Four days is enough to get ready.
*Mandatory voting. Absolutely. You don't vote, you don't participate in the next draft. Strong, yet simple.
*Number of teams. Cap it at 28. It's a little more than I would like (20-24 would be my ideal), but we've had 28 teams the last two drafts, and it's worked okay. It means more co-GM'ed entries, but frankly, I've had a lot more fun working with raleh (and Murph in MLD 7) than on my own. Might I suggest that GMs who consistently missed their time window in the last draft be required to be co-GMs?
*Play-by-play guy. What the hey. A nice touch. We claim Medicine Hat Tigers iconic commentator/bus driver Bob Ridley, who once exclaimed "he hit the f***ing crossbar" after a Tiger player hit iron on an open net in a 1975 playoff game. True story.

Two other for considerations:
1) Time limits. Might I suggest 12 hours for rounds 1 to 8, 8 hours for rounds 9 to 16, 6 hours for rounds 17 to 21, and 4 hours for rounds 22 to 24? They final three rounds really, really dragged in the last draft. If you can't make a decision on your spares, you shouldn't be in this thing.
2) Trades. No qualms with trading. But in the last couple drafts, we have hit snags with GMs using up all of their time window to work out a trade. Might I suggest a GM has two hours to work a trade once his time starts. After that, he has to announce a trade, or announce a pick.

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03-12-2008, 04:38 PM
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vancityluongo
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I'm in. Once again, I'm taking the Winnipeg Jets. I'm looking forward to my third season as GM of this franchise, unless my possible co-GM Willie for Captain has any objections.

Also, a "Yay" for all three, but a hesitant one for the first one. I'm thinking maybe AT LEAST a three day advance notice, if you won't be able to vote, backed up with a LEGIT reason. You gotta be reasonable. Last draft I believe I missed a round because I went camping from school for 3 days. Yes, I'm committed to the draft, but realistically, I'm not gonna give up something like that for a internet draft.

Something really big, which you would let someone know either by email, or on the boards, family emergencies and whatnot, which aren't controllable, are definitely more important then the ATD.

I hope I'm not sounding like I don't care about the draft, because I do. I just don't want to risk losing my spot in ATD 10, because of something I can't control, or because of other things that I have to do, in real life, that I just can't put the ATD ahead of.

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03-12-2008, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
I'm in. Once again, I'm taking the Winnipeg Jets. I'm looking forward to my third season as GM of this franchise, unless my possible co-GM Willie for Captain has any objections.

Also, a "Yay" for all three, but a hesitant one for the first one. I'm thinking maybe AT LEAST a three day advance notice, if you won't be able to vote, backed up with a LEGIT reason. You gotta be reasonable. Last draft I believe I missed a round because I went camping from school for 3 days. Yes, I'm committed to the draft, but realistically, I'm not gonna give up something like that for a internet draft.

Something really big, which you would let someone know either by email, or on the boards, family emergencies and whatnot, which aren't controllable, are definitely more important then the ATD.

I hope I'm not sounding like I don't care about the draft, because I do. I just don't want to risk losing my spot in ATD 10, because of something I can't control, or because of other things that I have to do, in real life, that I just can't put the ATD ahead of.
Actually, that's a good point, VCL. If you can't vote for a legit reason, you can't vote. Just agitates me when a guy doesn't vote simply because he got bounced in the first round, and doesn't care anymore.

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03-12-2008, 04:42 PM
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Team cutoff: 30 max

Time limits: 12 hours is fine for the first couple rounds but anyone who misses a pick has it cut to 6. Send a freaking list.

Mandatory voting: obviously. There have been many series in the 3 drafts I've participated where I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other and I felt bad voting. Just throwing that out there.

Start date: whatever

First round voting: Suggest a 15-minute time limit in the first round. Announce the start date/time 5 or 6 days in advance ... let's make the first round an event, the way it is in the NHL Entry Draft. If you can't be online at that time (for the record, unless it's a weekend, I won't be online at that time) then send a freaking list. Let's get the first round done in one evening / Saturday afternoon ... let's get it done in one sitting and give everybody their first player right off the bat.

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03-12-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Thanks for doing this, TC. And big-time thanks to BM for running this thing for as long as I've been involved.

In what will be the most unsurprising announcement of the draft, raleh and God Bless Canada will be co-GMs of a team. Name to be announced.

A few quick suggestions:

*Start date. Can we move it up? Say, March 21? I think we've had enough time to cogitate our good moves, and our mistakes, from the last draft. Three to five days is plenty of time to sign up. Four days is enough to get ready.
*Mandatory voting. Absolutely. You don't vote, you don't participate in the next draft. Strong, yet simple.
*Number of teams. Cap it at 28. It's a little more than I would like (20-24 would be my ideal), but we've had 28 teams the last two drafts, and it's worked okay. It means more co-GM'ed entries, but frankly, I've had a lot more fun working with raleh (and Murph in MLD 7) than on my own. Might I suggest that GMs who consistently missed their time window in the last draft be required to be co-GMs?
*Play-by-play guy. What the hey. A nice touch. We claim Medicine Hat Tigers iconic commentator/bus driver Bob Ridley, who once exclaimed "he hit the f***ing crossbar" after a Tiger player hit iron on an open net in a 1975 playoff game. True story.

Two other for considerations:
1) Time limits. Might I suggest 12 hours for rounds 1 to 8, 8 hours for rounds 9 to 16, 6 hours for rounds 17 to 21, and 4 hours for rounds 22 to 24? They final three rounds really, really dragged in the last draft. If you can't make a decision on your spares, you shouldn't be in this thing.
2) Trades. No qualms with trading. But in the last couple drafts, we have hit snags with GMs using up all of their time window to work out a trade. Might I suggest a GM has two hours to work a trade once his time starts. After that, he has to announce a trade, or announce a pick.
First off, GBC, he said claim your announcer at the end of the draft. unfair advantage here.

Second, I think the 29th is the best start date. I don't know how many people are going to be busy that weekend, but it IS Easter. I had a huge problem last year because I was out of town for the long weekend with very limited Internet access, and I had to send a massive list. I'm sure I'm not the only one that'll be busy that weekend, so I personally don't reccomend it, but hey, you and TC are running things this time, so if that's how it goes, I guess I'm cool with it.

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03-12-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonking View Post
Team cutoff: 30 max

Time limits: 12 hours is fine for the first couple rounds but anyone who misses a pick has it cut to 6. Send a freaking list.

Mandatory voting: obviously. There have been many series in the 3 drafts I've participated where I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other and I felt bad voting. Just throwing that out there.

Start date: whatever

First round voting: Suggest a 15-minute time limit in the first round. Announce the start date/time 5 or 6 days in advance ... let's make the first round an event, the way it is in the NHL Entry Draft. If you can't be online at that time (for the record, unless it's a weekend, I won't be online at that time) then send a freaking list. Let's get the first round done in one evening / Saturday afternoon ... let's get it done in one sitting and give everybody their first player right off the bat.
We've done live drafts in the past. I actually like the idea of a rapid-fire first round. I think it would be a lot of fun. The 28-team draft has gone well, but the one obstacle has been the first round. It usually takes four or five days, because everyone's trying to trade up or down.

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03-12-2008, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
First off, GBC, he said claim your announcer at the end of the draft. unfair advantage here.

Second, I think the 29th is the best start date. I don't know how many people are going to be busy that weekend, but it IS Easter. I had a huge problem last year because I was out of town for the long weekend with very limited Internet access, and I had to send a massive list. I'm sure I'm not the only one that'll be busy that weekend, so I personally don't reccomend it, but hey, you and TC are running things this time, so if that's how it goes, I guess I'm cool with it.
Good point, lad. Completely forgot about the long weekend. Those things can be hit or miss for us. I know I'll be gone for a good chunk of the weekend.

March 29th it is. And maybe ck's lightning round idea might fly.

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03-12-2008, 04:50 PM
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Just agitates me when a guy doesn't vote simply because he got bounced in the first round, and doesn't care anymore.
I agree completely. I know a lot of GM's only ever visit the boards exclusively for the ATD, but it's still their responsibilty as a GM to keep voting and participating in the discussions and things. Unless like I said, there's a reason why you can't be here for a day or two over the course of the draft (which is fine, and understandable), then I don't see why every one of the knowledgeable GM's in the draft can't particpate in the conversations and vote.

Which is why I'm for mandatory drafting, unless things get a bit too harsh (unreasonablility from the admins, which I'm sure won't be a problem. )

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03-12-2008, 04:51 PM
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The 29th will work for me as I should be around, but lightning rounds are only going to be doable on weekends. I'm at the office alll week and won't have the time to sift through lists, update the main page etc and be hands on. Was going to mention the 29th as the post-Easter reason but it already was. As for mandatory voting, the entire voting period is likely to be a week, so while there are things that pullus away, I think for the most part a warning a week in advance is enough to get votes in early or at a time convenient for you. Obviously there are exceptions but with 7-gamers aplenty in this thing it really sucks when a team literally gets eliminated possibly b/c a few GMs don't vote.

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03-12-2008, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Might I suggest a GM has two hours to work a trade once his time starts. After that, he has to announce a trade, or announce a pick.
How do you enforce that?

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03-12-2008, 04:56 PM
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How do you enforce that?
Yeah, that's a toughie for the people trying to admin!


IMO some people using the full time is just something that you deal with.

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03-12-2008, 04:57 PM
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The 29th will work for me as I should be around, but lightning rounds are only going to be doable on weekends. I'm at the office alll week and won't have the time to sift through lists, update the main page etc and be hands on. Was going to mention the 29th as the post-Easter reason but it already was. As for mandatory voting, the entire voting period is likely to be a week, so while there are things that pullus away, I think for the most part a warning a week in advance is enough to get votes in early or at a time convenient for you. Obviously there are exceptions but with 7-gamers aplenty in this thing it really sucks when a team literally gets eliminated possibly b/c a few GMs don't vote.
The 29th is a Saturday, so that should be all right...I'm not sure if a lightning-round would work though, for the first few rounds at least...I think we could try that for the last couple rounds, because by then, most people have shortlists. Again, this is IMO, but I'm not sure if it would be wise to rush the first round so much that we have a 15 minute time limit. The first round can make or break the makeup of your team. Although everyone knows who should and shouldn't be going where, mistakes happen, and when they do happen, having the time to thoroughly look through things can help out big time when the teams are complete.

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03-12-2008, 05:01 PM
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I gonna participate as the .. yet to be determined. If anyone is interested in a partnership feel free to pm me.

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03-12-2008, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
I'm not sure if a lightning-round would work though, for the first few rounds at least...I think we could try that for the last couple rounds, because by then, most people have shortlists.
The last round has the most variety of any in the draft. The first round is completely played out and boring. First goes Orr. Then Gretzky. Then Howe and Lemieux. Beliveau, Richard, Harvey, Shore, Hull and Plante go after that. Mikita, Roy, Hasek, Lidstrom and Dryden all go somewhere in there too.

Someone explain why this should take 2 days.

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03-12-2008, 05:04 PM
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One more rule suggestion: if my old rival Murphy is back for this draft (and I certainly hope he is), I think it should be a rule that Murphy and I are in the same division for every draft.

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03-12-2008, 05:10 PM
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Well both Nate and I want to get a shot in the main draft. We felt we proved oursleves enough in the AAA draft as a team but we will see. Ill contact him for a team name.

1. Mandatory Voting: I have no problem with this. Though I think making it completely mandatory is a little stretching it. I can certainly see why you would want to make it completely mandatory.

2. I would say 20-25 range. Its just the fact that we dont want to make it the slowest draft in the history of draft. Though if in the past more teams has worked well, I dont see any reason to change it.

3. Definetly an interesting idea. Im all for this idea, though not too familiar with broadcasters.

4. Start date? Im not good for March 29 but well what can I do? I have a father son hockey game that day and wont be home. But im not the rest of this league so if its a time limit im fine.

5. Time limit or Rapid Fire for 1st Round? Id prefer Time Limit. I just dont like the idea of Rapid Fire. Never was a fan of it. Id say something like an 6-12 hour limit per pick.

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03-12-2008, 05:16 PM
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Well both Nate and I want to get a shot in the main draft. We felt we proved oursleves enough in the AAA draft as a team but we will see. Ill contact him for a team name.

1. Mandatory Voting: I have no problem with this. Though I think making it completely mandatory is a little stretching it. I can certainly see why you would want to make it completely mandatory.

2. I would say 20-25 range. Its just the fact that we dont want to make it the slowest draft in the history of draft. Though if in the past more teams has worked well, I dont see any reason to change it.

3. Definetly an interesting idea. Im all for this idea, though not too familiar with broadcasters.

4. Start date? Im not good for March 29 but well what can I do? I have a father son hockey game that day and wont be home. But im not the rest of this league so if its a time limit im fine.

5. Time limit or Rapid Fire for 1st Round? Id prefer Time Limit. I just dont like the idea of Rapid Fire. Never was a fan of it. Id say something like an 6-12 hour limit per pick.
Just on the start date. If you're at the bottom of the round, you won't be picking on the 29th. And you can have your partner in crime announce the pick if you need to. (The joys of a co-GM). In general, we usually work at about a pace of 10-12 picks per day. If we get some really strong, reliable GMs, such as pit, Murphy, Eagle and pappy, in those anchor spots (first five picks or bottom five picks of a round) - guys who are always ready to pick when it's their turn, and PM a list if they won't be around - we can move through the picks very quickly.

The ATD morning of infamy: on a Saturday morning in ATD 7, we made 11 picks. In 37 minutes. There was one night in ATD 7 in which I picked twice. And there were 16 picks between my picks. And those weren't supposed to be lightning rounds. But those are exceptions.

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03-12-2008, 05:16 PM
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The last round has the most variety of any in the draft. The first round is completely played out and boring. First goes Orr. Then Gretzky. Then Howe and Lemieux. Beliveau, Richard, Harvey, Shore, Hull and Plante go after that. Mikita, Roy, Hasek, Lidstrom and Dryden all go somewhere in there too.

Someone explain why this should take 2 days.
I guess so. I dunno, let's say for whatever reason, you were called to a conference or something for work, and you were gonna miss Saturday. I guess it wouldn't be hard for us to make a list of our top thirty in order...meh. Still, two days for the most important round in the draft is not that bad, considering how crucial it is. But if half of the GM's use the full time limit, then we have a problem.

Also, I breifly mentioned this in the other thread, but if the 29th is indeed the official start, I see no reason why the first Orr's and Gretzky's can't be selected before that. Last draft Orr, Gretzky, and Howe were all selected in the week before the draft, and BM, finally took Lemieux at the *official* start of the draft.

So if we go with that, then whoever has the first few picks, could select as early as the moment the official thread is made with the draft order, if they don't want to trade their picks. I'm sure everyone knows what I'm talking about, but just to clarify further, the second pick wouldn't have to be made until Saturday just because the first was made on Tuesday or whatever.

Just another idea to consider.

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03-12-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
I guess so. I dunno, let's say for whatever reason, you were called to a conference or something for work, and you were gonna miss Saturday. I guess it wouldn't be hard for us to make a list of our top thirty in order...meh. Still, two days for the most important round in the draft is not that bad, considering how crucial it is. But if half of the GM's use the full time limit, then we have a problem.

Also, I breifly mentioned this in the other thread, but if the 29th is indeed the official start, I see no reason why the first Orr's and Gretzky's can't be selected before that. Last draft Orr, Gretzky, and Howe were all selected in the week before the draft, and BM, finally took Lemieux at the *official* start of the draft.

So if we go with that, then whoever has the first few picks, could select as early as the moment the official thread is made with the draft order, if they don't want to trade their picks. I'm sure everyone knows what I'm talking about, but just to clarify further, the second pick wouldn't have to be made until Saturday just because the first was made on Tuesday or whatever.

Just another idea to consider.
If you know you're picking 10th, you can build a shortlist of Potvins and Shores and Hulls and Plantes that will serve you in a pinch.

I don't buy that the 1st round is the most important. If you completely dick up your 1st round pick, you get ... Clarke? Jagr? Wow ... that's not much of a mistake. After three picks, I was winning ATD8 by a mile (Trottier, Robinson and Kurri) but I got bounced in the 1st round anyway.

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03-12-2008, 05:55 PM
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I'll be back in with the Nanaimo Clippers.

I like the idea of mandatory voting (I don't think I've missed a vote in my time in the draft) but at the same time I'd rather have people not vote than throw together rankings for the sake of getting something in. It is disappointing to see people stop showing up but I think I'd rather have that than the alternative.

I think 32 teams should be the max, but I'm not opposed to fewer. We should stick to numbers divisible by four to maintain balance in divisions (it's unfair to have some divisions with more teams while doing a conference style matchup would be too many teams to rank, IMO).

I'm ok either way with the PBP thing.

As for the start date, I think what we've done before has worked well. Set a start date that everyone's ok with to use as the official start of time limits, then let people make their picks beforehand if they would like to. That said, the 29th seems late (at least to me). I'd be ok getting an official start done earlier than that. It shouldn't take more than 7-10 days to get teams enrolled and the details sorted out. Even with a buffer of 3 or 4 more days we should be able to get on our way before the 29th.

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03-12-2008, 06:07 PM
  #23
Spitfire11
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1. Definite no
2. 28 sounds ok. I know it sucks to cut people out, but the fewer, the better, imo.
3. Sure

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03-12-2008, 06:14 PM
  #24
MXD
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As an outsider, may I suggest something?

MANDATORY PM's.
or
MANDATORY PM'S and EMERGENCY E-MAIL

Rationale : Lately, there have been several hfboards crashes (or whatever they call maintenance close-off), and GM's on serious nicotine crisis can do really unsportsmanlike stuff. The likeliness of unsportsmanlike conduct is multiplied by 10 if the GM isn't exactly patient.

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03-12-2008, 06:21 PM
  #25
Transplanted Caper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
As an outsider, may I suggest something?

MANDATORY PM's.
or
MANDATORY PM'S and EMERGENCY E-MAIL

Rationale : Lately, there have been several hfboards crashes (or whatever they call maintenance close-off), and GM's on serious nicotine crisis can do really unsportsmanlike stuff. The likeliness of unsportsmanlike conduct is multiplied by 10 if the GM isn't exactly patient.
Mandatory PM's is a definite must and will be part of the draft thread. I will be happy to post my e-mail as well for those who send picks via e-mail should HF crash.

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