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Old
03-18-2008, 11:54 AM
  #1
coolbean04
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Signed RFA's

What would we have lost if we got Sakic? 5 1st round picks? Who were the 5 1st round picks selected?

I also remember us signing Palffy to a RFA. Would that have been 5 1st round picks too? Who did we select with all those picks?

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03-18-2008, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
I also remember us signing Palffy to a RFA. Would that have been 5 1st round picks too? Who did we select with all those picks?
I don't think Palffy was ever signed to an offer sheet. There was a rumored trade that would have sent him to the Rangers but supposedly that feel apart because of some off-ice matters between the Rangers and Isles.

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03-18-2008, 12:05 PM
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That happened the summer of '95, right? So our follwoing 1st round picks were:

1995: No 1st pick, our first pick was @ 39 = Christian Dube
1996: Jeff Brown
1997: Stefan Cherneski
1998: Malhotra
1999: Brendl & Lundmark
2000: No 1st round pick
2001: Blackburn

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03-18-2008, 12:06 PM
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Sakic signed the offer sheet on August 6, 1997.

The Rangers following 5 first rounders were:

1998 Manny Malhotra
1999 Jamie Lundmark
2000 No first round pick (traded in the Brendl deal?)
2001 Dan Blackburn
2002 Traded their first round pick (Bure trade)

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03-18-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Sakic signed the offer sheet on August 6, 1997.

The Rangers following 5 first rounders were:

1998 Manny Malhotra
1999 Jamie Lundmark
2000 No first round pick (traded in the Brendl deal?)
2001 Dan Blackburn
2002 Traded their first round pick (Bure trade)
now that is who we selected, now if the avs had those picks, the players would be different i would think.

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Old
03-18-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
now that is who we selected, now if the avs had those picks, the players would be different i would think.
True, but the OP's question was who would we have lost. And in that lot, there's no one we would've missed. Sakic would've been an amazing addition to this team.

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03-18-2008, 12:53 PM
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coolbean04
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Damn, I remember back then that I was totally AGAINST the Sakic trade. Looking back now, I'd gladly give up all those picks for him. What a damn shame.

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03-18-2008, 12:54 PM
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Damn, I remember back then that I was totally AGAINST the Sakic trade. Looking back now, I'd gladly give up all those picks for him. What a damn shame.
Looking back is a tremendous luxury to have.

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03-18-2008, 12:56 PM
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I just went to see what kind of stats Sakic had right after 1997 when we tried to get him. Did anyone know that sakic has 999 assits right now? That's pretty cool that he's soon to get 1,000.

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03-18-2008, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Looking back is a tremendous luxury to have.
I know. With the way the team has been able to draft of late, I don't think I'd do a trade like that now (superstar for 5 picks). Unless if it's someone like Malkin of course.

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03-18-2008, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
I know. With the way the team has been able to draft of late, I don't think I'd do a trade like that now (superstar for 5 picks). Unless if it's someone like Malkin of course.
The cap to make an offer like the Rangers made impossible.

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03-18-2008, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think Palffy was ever signed to an offer sheet. There was a rumored trade that would have sent him to the Rangers but supposedly that feel apart because of some off-ice matters between the Rangers and Isles.
Is this new info?

The rumor/or basically it was reported by almost everyone as a fact, at the time, was that Bettman nixed a very favorble deal for the NYR because it involved allot of cash. The deal was agreed upon by both partys and was sent into the league.

If I don't remember wrong it was like Sunny, Harvey and cash for Palffy and Pilon. But it was a long time ago...

Edit: or that was what you ment! I missread your post.


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03-18-2008, 06:48 PM
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That and I thought the Isles wanted rework their deal with MSG Network. Or something like that.

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03-18-2008, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The cap to make an offer like the Rangers made impossible.
We could potentially front load it and put a franchise with poor economics on the brink.

Like a 12 year 120m offer for Malkin with 119m beeing paid out the first year...

That would have been the Neil Smith way of dooing buisniz.

That might actually be a way to go around the cap, when you start reaching thoose sums its not hard to find placements that gaurantees up to 7-8% yearly intrest. Maybe theres something in the CBA to prevent it.

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Old
03-18-2008, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Damn, I remember back then that I was totally AGAINST the Sakic trade. Looking back now, I'd gladly give up all those picks for him. What a damn shame.
thats cause we suck at drafting and ended up with all crappy picks...would you feel the same if those 5 picks resulted in:

scott gomez
martin havlat
alex frolov
ales hemsky
chris higgins

thats the risk involved...those picks could end up being nothing, they could also be 5 star players

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03-18-2008, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
We could potentially front load it and put a franchise with poor economics on the brink.

Like a 12 year 120m offer for Malkin with 119m beeing paid out the first year...

That would have been the Neil Smith way of dooing buisniz.

That might actually be a way to go around the cap, when you start reaching thoose sums its not hard to find placements that gaurantees up to 7-8% yearly intrest. Maybe theres something in the CBA to prevent it.
There is a 50/50 rule in the CBA. No contract year actual payout can be either more than double or less than half of the annualized cap hit.

Thus, you cannot offer a ridiculously frontloaded contract. However, you are right in the premise of frontloading as much as possible. With the available cash, the Rangers can have a perceived extra 10% bump by frontloading UFA contracts (like they did w/ Gomez).

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03-18-2008, 11:31 PM
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was'nt colorado hurting to find the money to resign sakic at that time.?

also if i remember correctly did'nt pepsi's naming rights for the arena fund the resigning of sakic.?

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03-19-2008, 06:35 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
There is a 50/50 rule in the CBA. No contract year actual payout can be either more than double or less than half of the annualized cap hit.

Thus, you cannot offer a ridiculously frontloaded contract. However, you are right in the premise of frontloading as much as possible. With the available cash, the Rangers can have a perceived extra 10% bump by frontloading UFA contracts (like they did w/ Gomez).
I may be mistaken, but the most a player can be paid is 20% of the current cap number

50 million x .2 = 10 million (as a cap hit)

As for what they are actually being paid, I don't recall a cap being placed on what a player is actually paid in terms of actual dollars.

12 years at 120 could be

year 1 - 20 million
year 2 - 20 million
year 3 - 20 million
years 4 thru 12 - 6.67 million

think the Pens would match?

We would have to move one of Drury or Gomez for sure.

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Old
03-19-2008, 09:03 AM
  #19
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From what I recall..

The Avs ownership was going through some financial troubles...Smith saw a real opportunity to front load a contract for Sakic and really make it tough for the Avs to match. I believe it was a 3 year, 21 million dollar contract but 17 million to be paid in the first season...some of which was an up front salary bonus. I think the Avs took the full week time frame to finally match, and yes, I believe they had to pull some strings such as selling the naming rights to the arena in order to get it done.

Could you imagine Sakic with Gretzky?

Getting Sakic in his prime would have been friggin sweet

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Old
03-19-2008, 09:05 AM
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And with the new CBA, the draft pick compensation has gone down considerably from what it was pre-lockout. I think for example Penner signed a deal averaging what around $4 or $5 million a season, something like that, and the compensation paid to Anaheim was a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick. Pre-lockout you're looking at 4 or 5 1sts for sure.

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03-19-2008, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I may be mistaken, but the most a player can be paid is 20% of the current cap number

50 million x .2 = 10 million (as a cap hit)

As for what they are actually being paid, I don't recall a cap being placed on what a player is actually paid in terms of actual dollars.

12 years at 120 could be

year 1 - 20 million
year 2 - 20 million
year 3 - 20 million
years 4 thru 12 - 6.67 million

think the Pens would match?

We would have to move one of Drury or Gomez for sure.
Actually, I believe there is something to that effect. I'm not positive, but I believe it's something like you can't go less than 50% of your previous year's salary. So the lowest you could go in year 4 in your example would be 10M. Someone with more CBA knowledge can clarify.

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Old
03-19-2008, 10:18 AM
  #22
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The Palffy deal would have been Sunny, Harvey, and a 1st for Palffy and Pilon. As a side deal, the Islanders wanted to extend their VERY favorable deal with MSG that they had signed in their glory years which turned out to be VERY lucrative even as they were tanking. It would have been the equivalent of tossing the bankrupt Isles ownership an extra 20-30+ million dollars over the next few years for broadcasting rights to a dying, destitute franchise. Basically the Rangers were buying Palffy and Bettman didn't want to set a bad precedent.

In 1997, Colorado was significantly strapped and Sakic was in his prime. 5 1sts would have been perfectly acceptable, and those were the rules at the time, distasteful as fans found it. Smith made a creative offer within the rules, the Avs found a way to match it, and that was the end of it.

A much more interesting bit with Colorado was that they were extremely interested in the 7th pick in 1998 (Mighty Manny pick) and had offered 3 of their 4 1st rounders for it; the picks were 12 (Tanguay), 17 (Skoula), 19 (Reghyr), and and 20 (Scott Parker). They had the 28th pick as well at the top of the 2nd round. Rumor was Smith demanded all four 1st rounders and Lacroix balked; if the 3 was true or close to it, it's baffling how that decrepit organization couldn't take that much value. Gagne goes 21 that year, Jiri Fischer 26 (before his heart problems he was a stud prospect) and Scott Gomez 27. While it was a pretty weak draft year, the Rangers could have been drastically different.

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03-19-2008, 10:47 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
The Palffy deal would have been Sunny, Harvey, and a 1st for Palffy and Pilon.
Don't forget that we were also giving the infamous Patrick Leahy to the Isles in that deal as well

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03-19-2008, 12:51 PM
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Can you imagine if we got both Sakic and Palffy. I wonder how many points they'd put up playing together.

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