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Is there any way for Washington to get Pitkanen out of Philly??
If I had Pitkanen, the only player in the NHL I would absolutely trade him for straight up without thinking is Kovalchuk. This is not to say I wouldn't consider trading him for other players (Nash, Heatley, Hossa, Thornton, Gaborik, etc.) but I would have to think about it for a little bit. There's no way on earth he goes straight up for Kolzig.
If I had Luongo as my goalie, there are potentially no players I would deal him for. Kovalchuk, maybe, Nash, maybe, Pitkanen+ alot, although I really like Joni even above JBO. But Luongo is worth wayyy too much to FLA to EVER deal him unless we get a goalie safer than MA fleury with as much talent.
You realize what you just said? You say that when the rookie makes a mistake Hitchcock benches him for long stretches. Then you say he will play a key role in the playoffs. In the playoffs with a coach that likes veterans like Hitchcock those benchings turn in to scratches.
thats my whole point.
Yes, I do realize exactly what I said. Those benching's have taught Pitkanen to be a better defensive reponsibility. If Joni had absolutely zero defensive ability, he'd still play in the playoffs. That's how important he is to the flyers transition game and their pp.
If I had Luongo as my goalie, there are potentially no players I would deal him for. Kovalchuk, maybe, Nash, maybe, Pitkanen+ alot, although I really like Joni even above JBO. But Luongo is worth wayyy too much to FLA to EVER deal him unless we get a goalie safer than MA fleury with as much talent.
If?? with a name like Panthers Rule...I'd hope Luongo was your goalie.
Good God!! no s&*t. geez. Hackett has vertigo and can't play. so that's Kolzig, Bondra, Semin and a 2nd for Pitkanen and a 4th....i guess the flyers would do that.
This is silly, the Caps have nothing that gets Pitkanen... he's young, a top defensive prospect, and cheap going into a new potential CBA. Kolzig, etc are older, more expensive = lessens their value...
Information that Pitkanen is on the table and Clarke hasn't walked away? Yeah.. I have information that the Flyers have offered the Bruins Chris Therien for Thorton.. and the Bruins haven't walked away.. very good source mind you...
Loungo? I don't think anyone gets him from Florida.. you would have to trade a boatload of players for him...
First off.....I didnt say a word about wanting to move any of these guys......
Second.....yes, Gonchar is what he is.....the best point producing dman in the NHL...and certainly good enough in his own end.....as for his big minus this season, look at the dmen on Washington. There is plenty of blame to go around...Kolzig has not played the way he should have for most of the season.....but the biggest reason is no NHL D.....it just cant be ignored
Quote:
Since there are players who retain an even +/-, or round about, on teams with a high - average, it's possible he had been the beneficiary of a better team, goaltending, or both. On the same note it's possible to assume he is a reason for some problems now.
I don't remember addressing that reply to you personally(probably because I didn't) So I'll re-emphasize this point. Remember, for you and for me, this all conjecture.
Do you have a link to something that says "Hitchcock only likes veterans"?
He has brought Pitkanen along slowly and has nothing but good things to say about him. Pitkanen was playing earlier when everyone was healthy and the November scratches started with a planned benching and then the flu that was knocking the crap out of everybody in every sport.
I don't know, man. You seem to claim a lot with no proof and some of your opinions are questionable. You don't have much credibility with me. I mean you claimed you knew the day Jagr was getting traded. The biggest, most publicized trade this year if not the last few. Not exactly psychic, you know?
BTW if you remember the playoffs Vandermeer got some pretty good playing time over Seidenberg. Seidenberg played most of the year where as Vandermeer wasn't up much comparatively. Who would be the veteran between them do you think?
Good God!! no s&*t. geez. Hackett has vertigo and can't play. so that's Kolzig, Bondra, Semin and a 2nd for Pitkanen and a 4th....i guess the flyers would do that.
I'm with those who think this entire thread is silly. Flyers aren't going to trade Pitkanen and Washington has absolutely nothing (including the above package) that they could offer Philly in such a deal. This is not going to happen, so why even argue about it?
I'm with those who think this entire thread is silly. Flyers aren't going to trade Pitkanen and Washington has absolutely nothing (including the above package) that they could offer Philly in such a deal. This is not going to happen, so why even argue about it?
Ironchef thinks it's reasonable so it was never locked.
Even more severe homerism than thinking Kolzig is equal value-wise to Pitkanen.
How so? I said Seidenberg/Vandermeer, another player (other than Pitkanen), and maybe a pick (that could even be the 05 first rounder, which is unlikely). At best, it would be Seidenberg, Gagne/Handzus/Comrie, and '05 first rounder.
That would be possibly three good pieces, two for sure, added to Washington with the Flyers taking on a lot of salary from Caps. It is a salary dump, not a move to get the Capitals deeper into the playoffs.
Imagine a JBO Joni pairing, scary. He would look good with Novak, Krajicek, Mezei, VanRyn, etc...., but straight up for Louie??? Heck no!. A team that would want Luongo would have to be prepare to sell the whole farm and more.
Luongo would be able to get a Thornton, or Kovo type player. He is on of the top 3 goalies in the league and for Pits straight up? No way.
Maybe
Pitkanen, Carter, Esche, Somik
for
Luongo, VanRyn
I never said it was fair or that it was a proposal, I said Luongo is the only player I think theyd move him for straight up. I agree that Fla wouldnt do it.
Imagine a JBO Joni pairing, scary. He would look good with Novak, Krajicek, Mezei, VanRyn, etc...., but straight up for Louie??? Heck no!. A team that would want Luongo would have to be prepare to sell the whole farm and more.
Luongo would be able to get a Thornton, or Kovo type player. He is on of the top 3 goalies in the league and for Pits straight up? No way.
Maybe
Pitkanen, Carter, Esche, Somik
for
Luongo, VanRyn
He wasn't suggesting that Florida should do that, only saying that Luongo is the only player they would trade Pitkanen straight up for (with a couple other maybes). I think Florida would be stupid to trade Luongo for anything short of a king's ransom, and I think most people agree with that.
How so? I said Seidenberg/Vandermeer, another player (other than Pitkanen), and maybe a pick (that could even be the 05 first rounder, which is unlikely). At best, it would be Seidenberg, Gagne/Handzus/Comrie, and '05 first rounder.
That would be possibly three good pieces, two for sure, added to Washington with the Flyers taking on a lot of salary from Caps. It is a salary dump, not a move to get the Capitals deeper into the playoffs.
Wow,
Essentially Seidenberg, Gagne/Handzus/Comrie, and a first round pick for a 34(?) year old goaltender making what? 13 million over the next 2-3 years under a potential CBA salary cap?
As someone else said, they would have to erect a statue of Clarke outside the MCI Center...
So I'll re-emphasize this point. Remember, for you and for me, this all conjecture.
Since there are players who retain an even +/-, or round about, on teams with a high - average, it's possible he had been the beneficiary of a better team, goaltending, or both. On the same note it's possible to assume he is a reason for some problems now
That might apply if the current team had anything close to NHL dmen....if what you are saying is, maybe his +/- was decent/good in the past was because he played on better teams with better players.....I would say of course.....but who would that not apply to...especially when talking about a stat like +/-.......when judging a players defensive abilities, you cant use only +/- (which is what you did....your quote)
"Pitkanen may not reach his point totals but I'll bet his +/- blows him away. Read that all around better player."
You outright say it....in a nutshell you say his +/- will be better....which makes him a better all around player....
If Pitkanen was drafted by Florida.....would he be close to his +14?
Let me add....I'm not comparing Gonchar/Pitkanen ..... I am however calling you on your Gonchar comments....I know you backed off them a little...but they are/were just way off...the guy is taking way to much heat for playing on a terrible team...all of a sudden its like he turned into Ozolinsh....
Anyone watching the Washington media and the national media of recent, knows that the Caps were taken by surprise at the backlash they got from the Jagr trade.
im sure they would be surprised at backlash considering they took NYR to the cleaners.
Why would Washington want to trade for Pitkanen when they've got even better already on their club?
Steve Eminger, folks, is gonna be a great, great player in this league. Pitkanen is impressng so far, but I'm not so sure if he the future #1 defenseman folks think. Eminger seems to have more elements I look for in a defenseman.
How so? I said Seidenberg/Vandermeer, another player (other than Pitkanen), and maybe a pick (that could even be the 05 first rounder, which is unlikely). At best, it would be Seidenberg, Gagne/Handzus/Comrie, and '05 first rounder.
That would be possibly three good pieces, two for sure, added to Washington with the Flyers taking on a lot of salary from Caps. It is a salary dump, not a move to get the Capitals deeper into the playoffs.
Sorry, from this:
Originally Posted by Harper
Kolzig and Gonchar? I think Vandermeer or Seidenberg and someone else could get those two, maybe add in a pick this year or next, and those two are Flyers.
I got the impression that the someone else was a sharp-type player, and the pick was a lower one, like a 3rd or 4th. I guess the constant de-valuing of Gonchar has made me insecure. I think a Seidenberg+Gagne/Comrie+2005 1st would be approaching the package needed for Kolzig and Gonchar. Especially considering its looking like the 2005 draft could be a lotto, and not based on this seasons results. Washington would have 2 chances at Crosby. Thats worth a lot to me.
Why would Washington want to trade for Pitkanen when they've got even better already on their club?
Steve Eminger, folks, is gonna be a great, great player in this league. Pitkanen is impressng so far, but I'm not so sure if he the future #1 defenseman folks think. Eminger seems to have more elements I look for in a defenseman.
Mizral, could I get an in-depth analysis of why you believe this. I have certainly seen flashes of potential from Eminger, but it seems like Pitkanen is noticebly better skater.
..... I am however calling you on your Gonchar comments.......all of a sudden its like he turned into Ozolinsh....
Okay, I'll agree with that.
You said he's hurt by not having anything close to NHL D-men around him, my point was there are/were players on bad teams, you know the kind without NHL calibre players, that have kept their +/- close to even when the team average is on the far side minus. It's not a total picture of the player and I certainly can't predict what Pitkanens #'s would be somewhere else, but Gonchar has been around long enough to wonder if he is a reason for past success or a beneficiary. I'm wondering, you see what I mean? Wondering. All I can do with Pitkanen is wonder how much better he will be.
Gonchar-wonder if he's as good as he used to seem
Pitkanen-wonder what the limit of his talent might be
Call me a dreamer but I'll take Pitkanen. If Gonchar had numbers better than the team average, it would be entirely different.
