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Old
03-24-2008, 03:16 PM
  #51
Cyborg Yzerman
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
He's a UFA this offseason.
I know, but my point was, I don't think he'll sign with us, I think he wants to go somewhere, where he thinks he has a shot at the cup. I don't know, I really would love it if he signed with us.

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03-24-2008, 03:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
They signed PM for 6.3 per a couple months ago. SJ would have to be in salary dump mode to trade him right after signing him.

So if we bring in Wade Redden, and Pavol Demitra, you think folks would dump their season tickets because our top line could be Nash-Malhotra-Demitra ? That'd be the best top line we've ever iced.
I know what your getting at but I think if there is any position on the ice where you "shortcut" so to speak its at wing.

I firmly believe Howson will address center and D before addressing any open top 6 wing positions.

I'm not worried as much about season ticket holders as I am about finally building a team the right way. For that to happen the middle of this lineup must be solidfied and we must have more puck-movers on the backend. Take care of that and the season tickets will take care of themselves.

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03-24-2008, 03:22 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye19 View Post
The only dilemma with Wade Redden, is I believe he wants to go to a Cup Contender, hence why he wouldn't waive his NTC...Just what I've speculated and what not.

The acquiring team was SJ, so they were at least a strong a contender as OTT at the trade deadline, so I don't think it was a contender issue. I think he's played in OTT for 10+ years and wanted to see if he could win a Cup there with the guys he's played with long term.

Everyone worth a crap wants to play for a contender. It'll just be interesting to see which "serious" contenders have the cap room to pay Redden. Seems like a pretty small group right now.

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03-24-2008, 03:23 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
They signed PM for 6.3 per a couple months ago. SJ would have to be in salary dump mode to trade him right after signing him.

So if we bring in Wade Redden, and Pavol Demitra, you think folks would dump their season tickets because our top line could be Nash-Malhotra-Demitra ? That'd be the best top line we've ever iced.
Marleau was signed, but his NTC doesn't kick in until July 1 of this year. That's a sure sign to me that the Sharks wanted to wait and see if Marleau was worth the dough they tied up by signing him. My guess is that the Sharks don't think he's worth the investment and will panic to get rid of him by July 1. But that's just me.

A top line of nash-Manny-Demitra screams "Doug MacLean" to me - strengthen one position (RW) that doesn't really need strengthened, while ignoring the GLARING hole (Center) that we need to fill.

One thousand no's to Manny being #1 next year. That's the type of move that I'm hoping and praying Howson doesn't make this offseason, so I can remain a CBJ fan.

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03-24-2008, 03:26 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Marleau was signed, but his NTC doesn't kick in until July 1 of this year. That's a sure sign to me that the Sharks wanted to wait and see if Marleau was worth the dough they tied up by signing him. My guess is that the Sharks don't think he's worth the investment and will panic to get rid of him by July 1. But that's just me.

A top line of nash-Manny-Demitra screams "Doug MacLean" to me - strengthen one position (RW) that doesn't really need strengthened, while ignoring the GLARING hole (Center) that we need to fill.

One thousand no's to Manny being #1 next year. That's the type of move that I'm hoping and praying Howson doesn't make this offseason, so I can remain a CBJ fan.

Beautiful Post, sir.

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03-24-2008, 03:27 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Marleau was signed, but his NTC doesn't kick in until July 1 of this year. That's a sure sign to me that the Sharks wanted to wait and see if Marleau was worth the dough they tied up by signing him. My guess is that the Sharks don't think he's worth the investment and will panic to get rid of him by July 1. But that's just me.

A top line of nash-Manny-Demitra screams "Doug MacLean" to me - strengthen one position (RW) that doesn't really need strengthened, while ignoring the GLARING hole (Center) that we need to fill.

One thousand no's to Manny being #1 next year. That's the type of move that I'm hoping and praying Howson doesn't make this offseason, so I can remain a CBJ fan.
Thats certainly interesting, and I can honestly say I did not know that. That has me thinking they want to keep their options open for negotiating with Campbell.

I still contend that Nash will score 40-50 goals next season regardless of who his center is. I don't worry when Nash is on the ice. I worry when the other 3 lines are.

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03-24-2008, 03:34 PM
  #57
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Good centers make wings look good. If we had two quality centers someone out of Brule, Voracek, Modin, Fritsche, Boll, Chimera, could have a MONSTER year.

We need those centers to make the motor go.

We could honestly put about anyone on a line with Nash-Marleau and get production.

Vermette would be a great second option to pair with Z. Again a wing might really jive with that line.

We have so many young players and so much potential it is bound to work one day.

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03-24-2008, 03:39 PM
  #58
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03-24-2008, 03:41 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
Good centers make wings look good. If we had two quality centers someone out of Brule, Voracek, Modin, Fritsche, Boll, Chimera, could have a MONSTER year.

We need those centers to make the motor go.

We could honestly put about anyone on a line with Nash-Marleau and get production.

Vermette would be a great second option to pair with Z. Again a wing might really jive with that line.

We have so many young players and so much potential it is bound to work one day.
I agree, and center should be our top priority....but I'm not bullish on the prospects or the possibilities.

If we bring the same corp of centers back(and we might have to) can we make the playoffs? That of course would mean big upgrades else where, most notably the blue line.

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03-24-2008, 03:52 PM
  #60
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Nordique, remember immediately after the trade deadline when Howson was asked about Marleau and he said he couldn't comment. That leads me to believe SJ is at least talking.

Also, Vermette would work on so many levels cause he can play center or LW.

Nash-Vermette or Vermette-Zherdev can work in many ways.

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03-24-2008, 04:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Casework View Post
Nordique, remember immediately after the trade deadline when Howson was asked about Marleau and he said he couldn't comment. That leads me to believe SJ is at least talking.

Also, Vermette would work on so many levels cause he can play center or LW.

Nash-Vermette or Vermette-Zherdev can work in many ways.
I like Vermette alot, he's got decent numbers and hasn't really had a shot at top line duty. But he's an RFA right? I just don't see Ottawa letting him go(despite what internet can message board dialogues say) and offer sheets are ugly business. I want a center upgrade as bad any anyone, but I'm skeptical one can be had.

Marleau can only be had via trade, Vermette is an RFA. Thats why I'm doubtful.

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03-24-2008, 04:37 PM
  #62
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I gotta say, this thread has some of the best discussion I've read in months - my own drivel excepted, of course.

To jump off both Shelf and Nord:

"Three moves" I've been saying, so let me clarify. One should be a biggie, either a true top line center or a true PP QB. The other two can be B-types. So, if Campbell is your blueliner, and your centers are Vermette and another "2", gold. If the biggie is a center, then a second-tier d-man and a "2" is also gold.

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Old
03-24-2008, 06:19 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by cydawg View Post
On the surface, this deal looks good. But I'm sure Howson's strategy is to use our first to land a top line center as it's going to be higher than Colorado's. So, I counter with:

Ott - Same as your offer.

CBJ - OKT, Colorado's 1st, Brule/Fritsche.

If you want Brule, we get your first. If you want Fritsche, we get Chicago's second.
I like these two deals, probably leaning towards Brule. If Ottawa could keep their 1st AND get Colorado's 1st, that would be terrific with the draft being in Ottawa.

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03-24-2008, 06:26 PM
  #64
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My thoughts...

I wouldn't give up much, if anything for early negotiating rights with Redden. There are other (better) options out there, so why give something additional away just for the right to overpay him?

Vermette on the other hand is an intriguing guy in the respect that he might turn out to be a true #1 center...but if he doesn't he shouldn't cost as much as a Marleau, Jokinen, etc. as an RFA--he could end up being quite a steal if he could be locked up for 3 years at around $3-$3.5 million. And, if the Sens fans are to be believed, perhaps he doesn't cost much in compensation either.

My gut also still wouldn't be surprised if, rather than re-signing Peca, Howson makes a go after Stoll again. Stoll fills a similar role and (barring concussion issues) should be more durable than Peca.

If he can make these moves without trading Brule or Brassard, Howson will have some options at wing, granted none of them are breath-taking--Brule, Novotny and (gulp) Chimera (particularly given Hitch's recent comments) could all get a shot at the second line wing in camp, as could Voracek if he plays lights out though he wouldn't have to be pushed as there would be enough depth that he wouldn't be needed on the big club.

These moves also cost less budget money leaving plenty of $$ to go after one or more defensemen in free agency and make further trades, as necessary, as the season progresses if Howson finds he's weaker at wing or second line center than expected.

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03-24-2008, 09:30 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
My thoughts...

I wouldn't give up much, if anything for early negotiating rights with Redden. There are other (better) options out there, so why give something additional away just for the right to overpay him?
That's actually one of the reasons I like the deal involving Fritsche, since they'd have to re-sign him as well.

Just finished reading the rest of your post, but I agree on all the other points.

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03-24-2008, 11:16 PM
  #66
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I gotta say, this thread has some of the best discussion I've read in months - my own drivel excepted, of course.

To jump off both Shelf and Nord:

"Three moves" I've been saying, so let me clarify. One should be a biggie, either a true top line center or a true PP QB. The other two can be B-types. So, if Campbell is your blueliner, and your centers are Vermette and another "2", gold. If the biggie is a center, then a second-tier d-man and a "2" is also gold.
Yeah I don't think I've ever followed the game going into the off season as closely as I am right now, anticipating these moves. We are turning over 40% our payroll this year. Thats a big honkin chunk of the team, financially.

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03-25-2008, 09:57 AM
  #67
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Marleau was signed, but his NTC doesn't kick in until July 1 of this year. That's a sure sign to me that the Sharks wanted to wait and see if Marleau was worth the dough they tied up by signing him. My guess is that the Sharks don't think he's worth the investment and will panic to get rid of him by July 1. But that's just me.

A top line of nash-Manny-Demitra screams "Doug MacLean" to me - strengthen one position (RW) that doesn't really need strengthened, while ignoring the GLARING hole (Center) that we need to fill.

One thousand no's to Manny being #1 next year. That's the type of move that I'm hoping and praying Howson doesn't make this offseason, so I can remain a CBJ fan.
I'm not at all crazy about Nash-Manny-Demitra, but I could get real excited about Nash-Manny-Hossa. Not because I'm a fan of Manny (I'm not), but because I love Hossa. Hossa is the only available "elite" talent on the market. I'm all for adding elite talent, let Hitch figure out how to make it work. RW does need strengthened by the way. Our current top RW has played 23 games this year. What makes anyone think that's going to change next year? Besides I'd much rather have Modin playing his natural position, 2nd line LW with Vermette and Zherdev. If Manny doesn't work out, make a trade at the deadline.

With Nash, Hossa, Modin (assuming he's healthy), Vermette, and Zherdev in our top six, we'll be in the playoff hunt. Especially if we add some scoring from the blueline, like Campbell.

Having said all that, I see no way this happens.

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03-25-2008, 11:47 AM
  #68
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im with dj on this. any scenerio where we go into the season expecting manny to fill the #1 roll is a mistake.


like any sport, football, baseball, soccer? good teams are built strong up the middle


off season roadmap to where we want to go

top line playmaking center
puck moving defensemen (possible 2 depending on what happens with hollywood)
and most importantly ALL OUR YOUNG PLAYERS TAKE ANOTHER STEP OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE OFFSEASON


scoring scoring scoring. hitch's system will cover up lack of an amazingly talented dcorps. we need talented forwards to make the scoring happen, hitch can handle the d

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03-25-2008, 12:50 PM
  #69
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im with dj on this. any scenerio where we go into the season expecting manny to fill the #1 roll is a mistake.


like any sport, football, baseball, soccer? good teams are built strong up the middle


off season roadmap to where we want to go

top line playmaking center
puck moving defensemen (possible 2 depending on what happens with hollywood)
and most importantly ALL OUR YOUNG PLAYERS TAKE ANOTHER STEP OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE OFFSEASON


scoring scoring scoring. hitch's system will cover up lack of an amazingly talented dcorps. we need talented forwards to make the scoring happen, hitch can handle the d

I don't think anyone disagrees we need a "top center". The problem is NONE are available. If every center in the NHL suddenly came available, Patrick Marleau would rank about 40th on the list of centers I want. And, we want to pay this guy $6.3 mil for the next two years?

In light of that should we be thinking outside the box? I'd rather have Nash, who is himself a better playmaker than Marleau, on a line with Hossa who I consider an elite RW. I don't particularly care who the center is between them. They are going to score. The only reason Manny is suggested is because he is one of the best face-off guys in the league. His job would be to win the face-off and get out of the way.

The common misconception is Nash needs a play making center on his line to be his best. Nash is not a sniper and he doesn't need to be setup. Most of Nash's goals come from his own ability to create. He's not the player who stands in front of the net taking a beating anymore. The truth is Nash plays like a play making center. So does Zherdev for that matter. That's why Hitch never puts them on the same line. Both need the puck. Nash and Zherdev need goal scorers on their lines as well as guys who can win face-offs. Hossa is the best goal scorer available, why wouldn't we want him?

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03-25-2008, 12:59 PM
  #70
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I don't think anyone disagrees we need a "top center". The problem is NONE are available. If every center in the NHL suddenly came available, Patrick Marleau would rank about 40th on the list of centers I want. And, we want to pay this guy $6.3 mil for the next two years?

In light of that should we be thinking outside the box? I'd rather have Nash, who is himself a better playmaker than Marleau, on a line with Hossa who I consider an elite RW. I don't particularly care who the center is between them. They are going to score. The only reason Manny is suggested is because he is one of the best face-off guys in the league. His job would be to win the face-off and get out of the way.

The common misconception is Nash needs a play making center on his line to be his best. Nash is not a sniper and he doesn't need to be setup. Most of Nash's goals come from his own ability to create. He's not the player who stands in front of the net taking a beating anymore. The truth is Nash plays like a play making center. So does Zherdev for that matter. That's why Hitch never puts them on the same line. Both need the puck. Nash and Zherdev need goal scorers on their lines as well as guys who can win face-offs. Hossa is the best goal scorer available, why wouldn't we want him?
I'm not alone on this Nor do I think Howson will overpay for a second line center hoping he's got 1st line game in him. 6.3 million isn't too terribly overpriced for Marleau, but the trade currency might be too much for us to stomach.

If it came down to getting Marleau or Campbell, I'm all in for Campbell. That upgrade on defense would improve the team more than the upgrade at center would.

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03-25-2008, 01:02 PM
  #71
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I would take Campbell over Marleau as well. I think ideally, from my point of view, we would get Campbell and Vertmette, and then another number 2 forward guy of some kind. Ideal in the sense that it's realistic, hopefully...

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03-25-2008, 01:20 PM
  #72
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I would take Campbell over Marleau as well. I think ideally, from my point of view, we would get Campbell and Vertmette, and then another number 2 forward guy of some kind. Ideal in the sense that it's realistic, hopefully...
I could agree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
"Three moves" I've been saying, so let me clarify. One should be a biggie, either a true top line center or a true PP QB. The other two can be B-types. So, if Campbell is your blueliner, and your centers are Vermette and another "2", gold. If the biggie is a center, then a second-tier d-man and a "2" is also gold.
Cap'n offered Stoll's name in the "2008-2009 CBJ" thread - if Campbell is the guy on the blueline and Stoll and Vermette (either a very passable "2") are your centers, that's good work in my book.

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03-25-2008, 01:26 PM
  #73
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Cap'n offered Stoll's name in the "2008-2009 CBJ" thread - if Campbell is the guy on the blueline and Stoll and Vermette (either a very passable "2") are your centers, that's good work in my book.
Agreed.

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03-25-2008, 02:19 PM
  #74
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I don't think anyone disagrees we need a "top center". The problem is NONE are available. If every center in the NHL suddenly came available, Patrick Marleau would rank about 40th on the list of centers I want. And, we want to pay this guy $6.3 mil for the next two years?
I don't necessarily disagree with this, but just because Marleau wouldn't rank among the top 20 or maybe even 30, does that mean we should settle for some guy that may barely rank in the top 75(just throwing a random number out there)?

If we could get 2 decent centers as opposed to 1 center that's a little better - as in Stoll and Vermette instead of Marleau - I am all for it. But let's not act like Marleau wouldn't be light years ahead of what we have, or that he's hardly the makings of a top center.

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03-25-2008, 03:14 PM
  #75
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Marleau at 6.3 is overpayment imo. I know stats aren't everything, but I'll toss em out anyways.

Marleau ranks 52nd among centers in points, and is -16 for the season.

Langkow ranks 23rd in points, and is +15 for the season, on undoubtedly a worse team.

Jeff Carter, 38th in points, +3.


I'd hate to see us trade anything young and promising for PM at 6.3 and then make due with the same D corps, or a marignal upgrade there.

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